Hi all. I am currently working on a complete rewrite of this mod using a Synthesis/Mutagen patcher, which will eliminate the need for the scans on entering a dungeon. First priority will be to replace existing functionality (with bug-fixes), and a close second priority will be Lux compatibility. I don't have an ETA yet, as I've just started, but I've done enough work in testing Synthesis/Mutagen to know it can be done.
It's good to see the interest in the below comments! So far, I have the basic patch in place. Fires are working 100%, I'm disabling unnecessary light bulbs, and I'm removing all emittance from fogs & mists. It's working really, really well. The Mutagen patcher is providing many benefits beyond just eliminating the initial dungeon scan. Using the patcher allows the use of more functionality built into the Creation Kit (i.e. enable parents and linked references), where the new build will rely much less on Papyrus scripting.
Plan details:
Spoiler:
Show
It's been slow-but-steady-going because I'm having to learn both the Mutagen framework (awesome work by Nogog - he's also been very responsive in assisting me when I get stuck) as well as I'm having to learn C#. With Fires working, I've now essentially tackled all the difficult new-learning needed and should mostly be repeating stuff going forward.
Next up is the in-game NPC scan to determine which lights stay on based on nearby NPCs. Due to the dynamic nature of NPCs in game, this logic cannot be handled by the patcher and will still need to be done in-game. I think I have a design that will ensure it happens near instantaneously. In the current scan, the NPC portion takes about 1-2 seconds. I hope to cut that in half or more. I intend to use a single cloak spell fired once on dungeon load to get the NPCs to report positions and types. This method should be much faster than my current method of using Quest Aliases, so I want to build and test that with fires before I move on to the other lighting types. (This design is not final, as I am still considering ways of incorporating this into the patcher, but there are some challenges and drawbacks that need to be worked out, primarily: (1) use of leveled NPCs where in some cases it's not possible to determine ahead of time the exact NPC type, and (2) how to handle dungeon lighting when zones have been cleared and then eventually reset with new inhabitants).
After I figure out the NPC scanning, I will tackle candles. Candle grouping and lighting logic in the mod is very complex, but it should really just be a matter of porting what I have in Papyrus into C# for the Mutagen patcher and not really needing to learn too much of anything new. That said, it will be a fairly significant amount of work.
I'll handle Dwemer lighting as the last light-source type. After the other two, Dwemer lighting should be a breeze.
Finally, I'll need to work on incorporating all of the mod options, whether in the patcher or in game in the MCM menu. Of course I am considering the logic in code along the way, but I have not worked out the user interface, and that will be something new to learn in Synthesis for the options that need to be part of the patcher.
And, after I do the release of the new build, I will definitely do a Lux patch. I understand some of the reasons listed to not use Lux, but it's popular enough that I'm definitely going to do compatibility for that (plus, I want to try it out myself for my next playthru).
I'll try to keep updating here as I make progress. Cheers!
Update on progress: NPC Scanning as described in the spoiler above is complete. The scan is running anywhere from .5-1.2 seconds, which means it is essentially not noticeable with the normal screen-load into a dungeon. Adding candles will probably add another ~1/4 to 1/2 second, so I'll keep my eye on the performance there. My goal is to not need to implement a "blackout" period like the current version does. The other win is that the new design works. The current mod relies on quest alias scripts to run the scans, which requires repeated starting and stopping quests. I believe this is the source of many of the problems that people have with the scan getting stuck, so I'm optimistic this will be a better design.
Before moving on to candles, I need to work on effects. These are the various smokes, light beams, and glows that are associated with a light source, and they need to be linked up to the light source in the patcher. Hopefully more progress today.
Version 2.9.1 - Added SMIM compatible meshes for nordic dungeons walls & pillars with SMIM skeletons and with candles removed. Version 2.9 - Fixes issues with initialization - should resolve issues for people who could not get this to work. Note that you have to complete Skyrim Unbound and exit the cave (or use an alternate start mod) before this mod will be activated. - Better handling for dungeons that have scripted control of some lights (i.e. Reachcliff Cave, Twilight Sepulcher, Folgunthur, etc). These lights will just be left alone (this feature requires SKSE to work properly). - New functionality to disable the scans for a particular location. Just outside the dungeon before entering, open up the MCM, and check the "Disable scans for current location". The mod will remember this location and not run the scans for any dungeon. "Most" locations are the same just outside the dungeon as inside the dungeon. However, at least one is not (Dawnguard Vampire Castle). I had to establish a location mapping for this. If anyone finds any other locations that this is not working for, let me know, and it's a simple update. - FOMOD Installer. No more patch downloads required. - Updated lighting mod options and load-order instructions. Please read the description. -------------------------------------------------- Older:
Spoiler:
Show
----------------------------------------------- Version 2.8 - Fixes candle lighting collision mess to enable easier lighting of candles by activation or by fire spells. _____________________________________ Version 2.7Beta - Update for SKYUI. I have verified this version will detect and load an MCM when you have SkyUI installed. If no SkyUI, then the configuration book will be utilized. Tested lightly, so consider this a Beta. - Full replacement for version 2.6 or 2.6a. Ok to update mid-game. _____________________________________ Patch v2.6a - Better compatibility with Relighting Skyrim if you are running that as your lighting mod instead of ELFX - Now recognizes SkyUI_SE.esp if you are running that, and adds an MCM menu - If you are running SkyUI, only download this if you are willing to test. I have not installed SKSE64 or SKYUI yet. My scripts are the same for LE and SE versions, and I have tested with and without SkyUI in LE, so it "should" work. Please work off a disposable save until you can verify. Thanks!
--------------------------------------------------------- New Version 2.6 has been uploaded. - Fixes issue with some configuration settings not being saved between game sessions - Adds option to remove the configuration book from your inventory - This version now has parity with the LE version, meaning the mod will recognize whether or not you have SKYUI installed and either use the MCM or provide a configuration book.. I have tested this in LE, and it works weather or not you have SKSE/SKYUI installed. However, I have NOT tested with SKSE64/MCM in SE yet. If you are running SKSE64 Alpha, let me know.
(Edit: does not recognize SkuUI-SE, so it will work, but there will not be an MCM until I can get a minor update out). Ok to update mid-game - just ensure no scan is running.
------------------------------------------------- Known Issues - Not compatible with Beyond Skyrim Bruma (disable mod in MCM when in Bruma) - Kolbjorn Barrow may have the pedestal stuck due to the placement of candles by this mod. If this happens, just disable the candle sconces using the console.
So it adds a book that will perpetually be in your inventory, and if you don't want extra clutter in your inventory and want to store it someplace else, it will just re-add it again and again and again? That's a shame.
a mod I can't play without. how do I use it along elfx shadows though? Do I still absolutely need hardcore replacer or should I use elfx shadows hardcore plugin?
It was tedious, but I uncoupled all of the ELFX Hardcore cell edits from my personal conflict resolution patches and switched out ELFX Shadows' Hardcore plugin and replaced it with the Shadows' Enchancer plugin (as that's what this mod's Description seemed to recommend).
One snag, LOOT puts the DISDD Hardcore replacer .esp before Enhancer.esp. I made a LOOT rule to move it after and carried conflicts forward to my new conflict patch. I generally took the DISDD changes over Enhancer because DISDD is "newer" and presumably is meant to overwrite it, however ELFX Shadows is newer than both and as that is the source of the Enhancer .esp I'm not sure what the right answer is. The main difference is that Enhancer and the original Hardcore adds the "Show Sky" flag to a lot of interior cells which vanilla ELFX and DISDD do not, but I don't really understand the impact of this flag.
It would be awesome if a patch for Beyond Skyrim Bruma could be made since they sometimes use custom candles. I tried making one myself in xSSE Edit but I'm not knowledgeable enough and it didn't work.
Found my first problem with this mod. I tried to enter a cave for a random "help the mages" quest and when i entered the screen goes black and back as usual but after a couple of seconds i cannot control my character anymore.
Dude, I love your mod. But plz, can you make a option like the "Candle has candle probability" but for those braiser bowls found in draugr ruins ? Some times some rooms gets to dark in the scanning due to the removal of the charcoals from those bowls, making them unlightable.
There's also the matter of those suspended bowls an the other ones usually on coluns that ends up being up too high to reach. Maybe you can make then lightable by shoting fire arrows, casting flames or trowing torches idk.
It may be too late, but you can actually cast fire spells or Yol on things. If it can be lit it will lit (not sure for dwemer lights, but I set them at 100% lit settings anyways because, you know, everything else in dwemer dungeons work, why lights shouldn't?). Some braziers are too far for flames to reach, use firebolt. Sometimes it is hard to aim. But this mod is supposed to be realistic and hard.
I'm stuck in a loop upon entering a dungeon, where it keeps scanning and telling me 80 Statics processed, and I can see a little candle lighting up and out everytime the message pops up, and I can't take control of my character.
879 comments
Plan details:
It's been slow-but-steady-going because I'm having to learn both the Mutagen framework (awesome work by Nogog - he's also been very responsive in assisting me when I get stuck) as well as I'm having to learn C#. With Fires working, I've now essentially tackled all the difficult new-learning needed and should mostly be repeating stuff going forward.
Next up is the in-game NPC scan to determine which lights stay on based on nearby NPCs. Due to the dynamic nature of NPCs in game, this logic cannot be handled by the patcher and will still need to be done in-game. I think I have a design that will ensure it happens near instantaneously. In the current scan, the NPC portion takes about 1-2 seconds. I hope to cut that in half or more. I intend to use a single cloak spell fired once on dungeon load to get the NPCs to report positions and types. This method should be much faster than my current method of using Quest Aliases, so I want to build and test that with fires before I move on to the other lighting types. (This design is not final, as I am still considering ways of incorporating this into the patcher, but there are some challenges and drawbacks that need to be worked out, primarily: (1) use of leveled NPCs where in some cases it's not possible to determine ahead of time the exact NPC type, and (2) how to handle dungeon lighting when zones have been cleared and then eventually reset with new inhabitants).
After I figure out the NPC scanning, I will tackle candles. Candle grouping and lighting logic in the mod is very complex, but it should really just be a matter of porting what I have in Papyrus into C# for the Mutagen patcher and not really needing to learn too much of anything new. That said, it will be a fairly significant amount of work.
I'll handle Dwemer lighting as the last light-source type. After the other two, Dwemer lighting should be a breeze.
Finally, I'll need to work on incorporating all of the mod options, whether in the patcher or in game in the MCM menu. Of course I am considering the logic in code along the way, but I have not worked out the user interface, and that will be something new to learn in Synthesis for the options that need to be part of the patcher.
And, after I do the release of the new build, I will definitely do a Lux patch. I understand some of the reasons listed to not use Lux, but it's popular enough that I'm definitely going to do compatibility for that (plus, I want to try it out myself for my next playthru).
I'll try to keep updating here as I make progress. Cheers!
Before moving on to candles, I need to work on effects. These are the various smokes, light beams, and glows that are associated with a light source, and they need to be linked up to the light source in the patcher. Hopefully more progress today.
- Added SMIM compatible meshes for nordic dungeons walls & pillars with SMIM skeletons and with candles removed.
Version 2.9
- Fixes issues with initialization - should resolve issues for people who could not get this to work. Note that you have to complete Skyrim Unbound and exit the cave (or use an alternate start mod) before this mod will be activated.
- Better handling for dungeons that have scripted control of some lights (i.e. Reachcliff Cave, Twilight Sepulcher, Folgunthur, etc). These lights will just be left alone (this feature requires SKSE to work properly).
- New functionality to disable the scans for a particular location. Just outside the dungeon before entering, open up the MCM, and check the "Disable scans for current location". The mod will remember this location and not run the scans for any dungeon. "Most" locations are the same just outside the dungeon as inside the dungeon. However, at least one is not (Dawnguard Vampire Castle). I had to establish a location mapping for this. If anyone finds any other locations that this is not working for, let me know, and it's a simple update.
- FOMOD Installer. No more patch downloads required.
- Updated lighting mod options and load-order instructions. Please read the description.
--------------------------------------------------
Older:
Version 2.8
- Fixes candle lighting collision mess to enable easier lighting of candles by activation or by fire spells.
_____________________________________
Version 2.7Beta
- Update for SKYUI. I have verified this version will detect and load an MCM when you have SkyUI installed. If no SkyUI, then the configuration book will be utilized. Tested lightly, so consider this a Beta.
- Full replacement for version 2.6 or 2.6a. Ok to update mid-game.
_____________________________________
Patch v2.6a
- Better compatibility with Relighting Skyrim if you are running that as your lighting mod instead of ELFX
- Now recognizes SkyUI_SE.esp if you are running that, and adds an MCM menu
- If you are running SkyUI, only download this if you are willing to test. I have not installed SKSE64 or SKYUI yet. My scripts are the same for LE and SE versions, and I have tested with and without SkyUI in LE, so it "should" work. Please work off a disposable save until you can verify.
Thanks!
---------------------------------------------------------
New Version 2.6 has been uploaded.
- Fixes issue with some configuration settings not being saved between game sessions
- Adds option to remove the configuration book from your inventory
- This version now has parity with the LE version, meaning the mod will recognize whether or not you have SKYUI installed and either use the MCM or provide a configuration book.. I have tested this in LE, and it works weather or not you have SKSE/SKYUI installed. However, I have NOT tested with SKSE64/MCM in SE yet. If you are running SKSE64 Alpha, let me know.
(Edit: does not recognize SkuUI-SE, so it will work, but there will not be an MCM until I can get a minor update out).
Ok to update mid-game - just ensure no scan is running.
Known Issues
- Not compatible with Beyond Skyrim Bruma (disable mod in MCM when in Bruma)
- Kolbjorn Barrow may have the pedestal stuck due to the placement of candles by this mod. If this happens, just disable the candle sconces using the console.
It was tedious, but I uncoupled all of the ELFX Hardcore cell edits from my personal conflict resolution patches and switched out ELFX Shadows' Hardcore plugin and replaced it with the Shadows' Enchancer plugin (as that's what this mod's Description seemed to recommend).
One snag, LOOT puts the DISDD Hardcore replacer .esp before Enhancer.esp. I made a LOOT rule to move it after and carried conflicts forward to my new conflict patch. I generally took the DISDD changes over Enhancer because DISDD is "newer" and presumably is meant to overwrite it, however ELFX Shadows is newer than both and as that is the source of the Enhancer .esp I'm not sure what the right answer is. The main difference is that Enhancer and the original Hardcore adds the "Show Sky" flag to a lot of interior cells which vanilla ELFX and DISDD do not, but I don't really understand the impact of this flag.
There's also the matter of those suspended bowls an the other ones usually on coluns that ends up being up too high to reach. Maybe you can make then lightable by shoting fire arrows, casting flames or trowing torches idk.
Does this just not work with Lux?
it doesn't.But for some reason its not auto scanning for me. Tried various load orders on Bleak falls Barrow (unmodded).
Any ideas?
Sorted it.
So anyone that uses Alternate Perspective or any other mod that does not complete Unbound quest at game start you need this mod linked above.
Works Awesome now. Love it!
It's a really simple script that makes it so this mod doesnt require Unbound to be completed
Little bugger keeps movin around.