So I updated FormList Patch Collection and these ESPs were added to MO2. My understanding is that they need to load at the very bottom on the MO2 right, below even the Bashed Patch. Did I understand that correctly?
I see here in the comments that you have contacted the Loot people to not flag them as ITM errors. It might be a good idea to also ask Loot to have them automatically sorted correctly.
Yes, basically. It completely depends on your load order. They only need to be after any plugins that modify the same FormLists. The easiest way to ensure that if you're unsure is to put them at the end of your load order below the bashed patch.
The idea of the plugins is they are universal patches for their related formlists. It makes it so I don't have to babysit every person's load order and make dozens of individual patches for certain circumstances.
Theoretically I'm trying to avoid stuff like: You plant an ingredient (eg Yellow Flower) in Hearthfire soil and grow an low poly plant from the wrong mod (eg not 3D), a completely different type of plant (eg Tomato plant), plant nothing, or just CTD. Similar stuff could happen with Spider Imbuing or the Atronach Forge. It might not happen very often or to very many people, but it's possible and I decided on trying universal patches instead of waiting until people have problems and not knowing why.
I don't know if it's possible for LOOT to sort my plugins automatically. As I far as I know it has to sort plugins after other specific plugins by name.
Thank you for that explanation. That makes more sense. I can see the utility of generic patches like that.
I just now tested a new Loot rule. I told the three plugins to load after Bashed Patch and also after Modern Brawl Bug Fix.esp (which, at least on my system, gets placed last), and your plugins got sorted after them. Many of us temporarily delete the Bashed Patch when running Loot, though.
Actually, if Loot could just give them the same rules it gives Modern Brawl Bug Fix, it may work. There may be a way to get Loot to put something in a "dead last" category.
I don't know if it's a Vortex-specific thing or something that can also be set in LOOT, but plugins there come in Groups where they can be sorted into specific sections of a load order if no other special rule exists for them.
That's what I did for Aura's Inventory Tweaks - set it to the Dynamic Patches group so it sorted just above my Bashed Patch. And while that was a manual change, I think there's a way for authors to set their plugins automatically, because a fair few mods I download already have a group other than 'default' assigned when I install them. I'm just not sure how it's done.
If I may ask similarly to this question, please clarify situations where some mods already edit these formlists. If this mod's ESP is loded after, these records are not carried forward.
Correct me if I am wrong. My understanding is that your patches will update the formlist for mods that you have selected to inlude a patch for, requiring me to have a base formlist from the get go.
Can there be situations where if the formlist already has an entry for a given mod, then your patch adds it again, will there be duplicates or cause a crash?
What if there is a mod I am using that this mod has not patched. How can this be handled?
It seems there's a tag that can be added to the LOOT masterlist to put plugins in a late loading group. I'll see if I can get that added to FLPC's plugins.
If a form is already in a formlist, FLM will skip it. No duplicates and no crashes.
If an unsupported mod edits any of the formlists that I've included plugins to overwrite, you could just tell me and I could add support for it. That would be what I would recommend. It's really not difficult to add patches for the Atronach Forge, Spider Crafting, and Hearthfire Planting formlists, it's more that I don't know every single mod that needs patching. Alternatively, you could patch it yourself or overwrite/remove the overwrite plugins; it would really depend on your load order whether that would cause problems or not though.
For this mod to not provide duplicates, shouldn't all the affected lists be reverted back to vanilla, instead of only the three esps that you have provided? You could do it in one big .esp (maybe consider separately spiders formlists and Atronach Forge formlists).
I think as it is now, many formlists will contain duplicates of entries, and I don't know if that can be harmful or not.
FormList Manipulator does not create duplicates. If a form is already in a formlist it will be skipped.
The reason why the Atronach forge, Dragonborn spider imbuing, and Hearthfire planting are reverted to vanilla are because they are sets of paired formlists. They are queried for both an input and output. Sometimes a mod will only edit either the input or the output and not both. FLM can't make remove or replace forms added to a formlist by esp, and if either of the forms in a paired formlist are detected both will be skipped, hence the need for esps to revert the formlists for these specific situations.
I may consider combining them into 1 esp though. I'd only have to make about 15 versions of the plugin for all the options.
What is the purpose of FormList-Patch-Collection_ITMs.esp? It conflicts with several mods that aren't being patched by this mod. Is it safe to make a patch with the conflicting formid's added to FormList-Patch-Collection_ITMs.esp?
I've explained it before but I'll try to explain it again. The short of it is it's there to ensure there's no mismatch between paired FormLists.
Certain FormLists are used by checking a numbered entry in one FormList and then an entry of the same number in another FormList.
One example of this is `AtrFrgSigilStoneRecipeList` and `AtrFrgSigilStoneResultList` which are used for the recipes you can "craft" at the Atronach Forge and the resulting item/NPC that gets summoned (specifically the recipes that require a sigil stone). USSEP makes a fix by changing Form #3 of `AtrFrgSigilStoneResultList` from `DremoraDaedricBoots` to `ArmorDaedricBoots`, so when you put in the items from Form #3 of `AtrFrgSigilStoneRecipeList`, you now get the item `ArmorDaedricBoots` in return instead of `DremoraDaedricBoots`.
It's not adding new forms to the end of the FormList, something that can be handled completely through FLM, it's changing an existing entry by removing and adding forms at a specific order in the list. This needs to be handled by an ESP patch.
For the second question, if the patches are done correctly, yes it's safe. An "incorrect patch" could lead to inconsistencies (not being able to craft something at the Atronach Forge, planting a tomato and getting a mushroom plant, etc) or potentially other bugs and maybe crashes. Some patches may also be rendered completely redundant with FLPC.
My first inclination is to ask for what mods aren't being patched? (I may not be aware of those mods) or don't seem to be being patched (might already be fully supported through the FLM inis), so I can add support for them or clarify existing support. If you don't want to wait for me to patch or clarify, it is safe to patch yourself if you know what you're doing.
Spoiler:
Show
Unmarked Screenshot
Pictured above is one load order's example of one of the Atronach Forge FormLists. The yellow boxes highlight changes made by plugins that have to be handled by ESP. The blue boxes highlight additions made by plugins that can be handled by FLM.
In this example all of the changes made by Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.esp, Armor Variants Expansion - Atronach Forge Addon, and Zim's Improved Dremora.esp have been forwarded to FormList-Patch-Collection_ITMs.esp (there are multiple versions of this plugin depending on your detected mods when installing FLPC's FOMOD).
Additionally, the additions made by elemental poisons.esp and Zim's Improved Dremora.esp are patched by FLM, in this case in BBA_FL-Vanilla_AtronachForge_FLM.ini.
Spoiler:
Show
here
and here
If the FormList edits are in the blue (additions) area, you should be fine to just forward the records to FormList-Patch-Collection_ITMs.esp, a custom esp patch that loads after, or make a custom FLM patch. If the records happen to already be patched by FLM, it should be fine as it will skip those entries instead of adding duplicate entries. There may be cases where problems or inconsistencies could happen, but it should usually be safe.
If the FormList edits are in the yellow (changes) area, you should be fine to forward the records to FormList-Patch-Collection_ITMs.esp or a custom esp patch that loads after. You must ensure that the entries remain in the same order and that there are the same amount of entries in paired FormLists.
In either area, there may be more complicated patches needed than simple, straightforward conflict resolution. If in doubt, just let me know and I'll check it out.
And always (even if you patch them yourself) let me know if you find mods that aren't or might not be patched yet. I'll go ahead and add support for them so everyone can benefit.
Thank you for the in depth explanation and the useful information regarding how to create a conflict patch for this. I didn't list the conflicting mods because most mod authors don't want to be bothered making patches and I was just trying to get information to attempt to create a patch for this myself. But if you're going to be awesome enough to look into this and incorporate it into your mod then that's definitely better then me creating a patch just for myself. These are the conflicts I have: Finding Velehk Sain, Animated Armoury (probably any version but I'm using this one), Grow Tomatoes & Cutting Room Floor.
(Nevermind. I hadn't read the description page in a while and was assuming only the mods specifically mentioned in the FOMOD were covered. After re-reading and looking through the INI's, it seems only Grow Tomatoes is the only one not covered. It's a bit of a pain to go through all the trees in the description when you just need to figure out if a certain mod is covered but all the info is there so not your problem.)
It appears Hearthfires Extended is the only mod I'm using that isn't supported by this patch. Would appreciate seeing it added! I have it custom patched (in a hopefully correct enough way) until then.
Hi again! I added these lines for the Immersive Interactions patch, and I figured I'd share. It covers various stuff like CC stuff, iNeed snow drifts, Wyrmstooth, JK's stuff, more LOTD stuff (button press animations), OpusGlass' creatures, etc. However, they are not thoroughly tested yet.
Just so I'm clear, I'm fine to keep this enabled if I'm running xEdit to sort masters etc, just not the QuickAutoClean, is that correct?
I've always kept this disabled to be sure, and that only other mod I can think of not to run through xEdit is Guard Dialogue Overhaul. I'm not any good with xEdit and I'm sure I'm being over-cautious, anyone able to confirm for me?
Yes that should be fine. The goal is to not have xEdit accidentally remove ITMs from `FormList-Patch-Collection_ITMs.esp`. The "QuickAutoClean" mode should be the only thing that would do this. As long as you don't load the esp through QuickAutoClean (which will attempt to clean the selected plugin then save it without being prompted) or save any changes to it in manual mode you're fine to have it loaded in xEdit.
I'm not certain if the FormLists will be used anymore or not with Extended Cut, but there shouldn't be any harm in installing the patch. I would still install it personally.
As far as I can remember, just Critterspawn Congestion Fix. I can try testing again with my now expanded modlist (was downloading the essentials when I noticed this).
I'm trying to add the Ash Piles (0X0830)/Acid Ash Piles (0X091A) from FEC to Shovel Bury Bodies mod, 2 of them are activators and aren't in a form list. My function is as follow:
Formlist = 0X0830~FEC.esp
The game doesn't seem to recognized that hovewer. Can you check it for me. I'm sorry because i'm very new to the FLM.
The various versions of the base ESPs were consolidated into "FormList-Patch-Collection_ITMs.esp", as mentioned in the changelog:
Base ESP: Consolidated the main ITM patches from 3 ESPfe plugins to 1 ESPfe plugin. You should be safe to update mid-game, but I don't know for sure; consider using ReSaver to clean your save if updating on an existing save.
There are 15 versions of the plugin and the FOMOD auto-detect should get you the right one for your game.
The Beyond Skyrim Assets FLM has always been effectively empty so I just removed it. I'll add it back in if I actually do anything with it.
Getting a missing folder FOMOD error for the Gather Wilderness Resources patch. --> Thank you!
Also, is the Skills Of The Wild Patch only compatible with SotW 2.0+ or will it also work with SotW 1.x? If not, would it be a lot of trouble to make a SotW 1.x patch (the last pre-2.0 version was converted to an .esl, so it might be 2 patches)? --> Thank you!
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If you like my mods and want to support me, I now have a Kofi.
I see here in the comments that you have contacted the Loot people to not flag them as ITM errors. It might be a good idea to also ask Loot to have them automatically sorted correctly.
BaseFL-AtrForge_USSEP.esp
BaseFL-DBSpiders_Vanilla.esp
BaseFL-HFPlanting_Vanilla.esp
Would it break things if I don't activate these three? I admit I still don't really understand their purpose, or the consequences of ignoring them.
The idea of the plugins is they are universal patches for their related formlists. It makes it so I don't have to babysit every person's load order and make dozens of individual patches for certain circumstances.
Theoretically I'm trying to avoid stuff like:
You plant an ingredient (eg Yellow Flower) in Hearthfire soil and grow an low poly plant from the wrong mod (eg not 3D), a completely different type of plant (eg Tomato plant), plant nothing, or just CTD. Similar stuff could happen with Spider Imbuing or the Atronach Forge. It might not happen very often or to very many people, but it's possible and I decided on trying universal patches instead of waiting until people have problems and not knowing why.
I don't know if it's possible for LOOT to sort my plugins automatically. As I far as I know it has to sort plugins after other specific plugins by name.
I just now tested a new Loot rule. I told the three plugins to load after Bashed Patch and also after Modern Brawl Bug Fix.esp (which, at least on my system, gets placed last), and your plugins got sorted after them. Many of us temporarily delete the Bashed Patch when running Loot, though.
Actually, if Loot could just give them the same rules it gives Modern Brawl Bug Fix, it may work. There may be a way to get Loot to put something in a "dead last" category.
That's what I did for Aura's Inventory Tweaks - set it to the Dynamic Patches group so it sorted just above my Bashed Patch. And while that was a manual change, I think there's a way for authors to set their plugins automatically, because a fair few mods I download already have a group other than 'default' assigned when I install them. I'm just not sure how it's done.
Correct me if I am wrong. My understanding is that your patches will update the formlist for mods that you have selected to inlude a patch for, requiring me to have a base formlist from the get go.
Can there be situations where if the formlist already has an entry for a given mod, then your patch adds it again, will there be duplicates or cause a crash?
What if there is a mod I am using that this mod has not patched. How can this be handled?
If a form is already in a formlist, FLM will skip it. No duplicates and no crashes.
If an unsupported mod edits any of the formlists that I've included plugins to overwrite, you could just tell me and I could add support for it. That would be what I would recommend. It's really not difficult to add patches for the Atronach Forge, Spider Crafting, and Hearthfire Planting formlists, it's more that I don't know every single mod that needs patching. Alternatively, you could patch it yourself or overwrite/remove the overwrite plugins; it would really depend on your load order whether that would cause problems or not though.
I think as it is now, many formlists will contain duplicates of entries, and I don't know if that can be harmful or not.
The reason why the Atronach forge, Dragonborn spider imbuing, and Hearthfire planting are reverted to vanilla are because they are sets of paired formlists. They are queried for both an input and output. Sometimes a mod will only edit either the input or the output and not both. FLM can't make remove or replace forms added to a formlist by esp, and if either of the forms in a paired formlist are detected both will be skipped, hence the need for esps to revert the formlists for these specific situations.
I may consider combining them into 1 esp though. I'd only have to make about 15 versions of the plugin for all the options.
Certain FormLists are used by checking a numbered entry in one FormList and then an entry of the same number in another FormList.
One example of this is `AtrFrgSigilStoneRecipeList` and `AtrFrgSigilStoneResultList` which are used for the recipes you can "craft" at the Atronach Forge and the resulting item/NPC that gets summoned (specifically the recipes that require a sigil stone). USSEP makes a fix by changing Form #3 of `AtrFrgSigilStoneResultList` from `DremoraDaedricBoots` to `ArmorDaedricBoots`, so when you put in the items from Form #3 of `AtrFrgSigilStoneRecipeList`, you now get the item `ArmorDaedricBoots` in return instead of `DremoraDaedricBoots`.
It's not adding new forms to the end of the FormList, something that can be handled completely through FLM, it's changing an existing entry by removing and adding forms at a specific order in the list. This needs to be handled by an ESP patch.
For the second question, if the patches are done correctly, yes it's safe. An "incorrect patch" could lead to inconsistencies (not being able to craft something at the Atronach Forge, planting a tomato and getting a mushroom plant, etc) or potentially other bugs and maybe crashes. Some patches may also be rendered completely redundant with FLPC.
My first inclination is to ask for what mods aren't being patched? (I may not be aware of those mods) or don't seem to be being patched (might already be fully supported through the FLM inis), so I can add support for them or clarify existing support. If you don't want to wait for me to patch or clarify, it is safe to patch yourself if you know what you're doing.
Unmarked Screenshot
Pictured above is one load order's example of one of the Atronach Forge FormLists. The yellow boxes highlight changes made by plugins that have to be handled by ESP. The blue boxes highlight additions made by plugins that can be handled by FLM.
In this example all of the changes made by Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.esp, Armor Variants Expansion - Atronach Forge Addon, and Zim's Improved Dremora.esp have been forwarded to FormList-Patch-Collection_ITMs.esp (there are multiple versions of this plugin depending on your detected mods when installing FLPC's FOMOD).
Additionally, the additions made by elemental poisons.esp and Zim's Improved Dremora.esp are patched by FLM, in this case in BBA_FL-Vanilla_AtronachForge_FLM.ini.
here
and here
If the FormList edits are in the blue (additions) area, you should be fine to just forward the records to FormList-Patch-Collection_ITMs.esp, a custom esp patch that loads after, or make a custom FLM patch. If the records happen to already be patched by FLM, it should be fine as it will skip those entries instead of adding duplicate entries. There may be cases where problems or inconsistencies could happen, but it should usually be safe.
If the FormList edits are in the yellow (changes) area, you should be fine to forward the records to FormList-Patch-Collection_ITMs.esp or a custom esp patch that loads after. You must ensure that the entries remain in the same order and that there are the same amount of entries in paired FormLists.
In either area, there may be more complicated patches needed than simple, straightforward conflict resolution. If in doubt, just let me know and I'll check it out.
And always (even if you patch them yourself) let me know if you find mods that aren't or might not be patched yet. I'll go ahead and add support for them so everyone can benefit.
Finding Velehk Sain, Animated Armoury (probably any version but I'm using this one), Grow Tomatoes &Cutting Room Floor.(Nevermind. I hadn't read the description page in a while and was assuming only the mods specifically mentioned in the FOMOD were covered. After re-reading and looking through the INI's, it seems only Grow Tomatoes is the only one not covered. It's a bit of a pain to go through all the trees in the description when you just need to figure out if a certain mod is covered but all the info is there so not your problem.)
I am going to try to simplify the description so it's easier to find what mods have been patched.
I have it custom patched (in a hopefully correct enough way) until then.
Preview
You're free to do with these as you please, like my previous LOTD additions.
I've always kept this disabled to be sure, and that only other mod I can think of not to run through xEdit is Guard Dialogue Overhaul. I'm not any good with xEdit and I'm sure I'm being over-cautious, anyone able to confirm for me?
Cheers.
Much appreciated :)
Formlist = 0X0830~FEC.esp
The game doesn't seem to recognized that hovewer. Can you check it for me. I'm sorry because i'm very new to the FLM.
BCA_FL-Mod_BeyondSkyrimAssets_FLM.ini
BaseFL-AtrForge_USSEP.esp
BaseFL-DBSpiders_Vanilla.esp
BaseFL-HFPlanting_Vanilla.esp
Are they no longer needed?
The various versions of the base ESPs were consolidated into "FormList-Patch-Collection_ITMs.esp", as mentioned in the changelog:
The Beyond Skyrim Assets FLM has always been effectively empty so I just removed it. I'll add it back in if I actually do anything with it.
Also, is the Skills Of The Wild Patch only compatible with SotW 2.0+ or will it also work with SotW 1.x? If not, would it be a lot of trouble to make a SotW 1.x patch (the last pre-2.0 version was converted to an .esl, so it might be 2 patches)? --> Thank you!
The Skills of the Wild patch should work with any version, 1.x or 2.x. The EditorIDs are the same and no major changes were made to the formlists.