Just a quick update to the previous issue. I think this might not be related to the navmesh at all!
As an experiment, I deleted everything that's new in both EastEmpireTradingCompanyDocks and EastEmpireWarehouseExterior cells. But I didn't touch the navmesh.
After that NPCs were able to cross the bridge. So there's weirdly something else placed in the world that distracts the NPCs somehow.
It's a combination of all these placed objects: 06010223 0601022B 0601022C 0601022D 0601022E 06012571
If all of these are removed, followers can cross over the bridge. It needs to be all of them, because if any one of these remain the issue persists. I have absolutely no idea why, but this seems to do the trick!
Oh lord those are all a bunch of collision markers, why on earth are these placed here. The first one on your list is the little gate thats there, thats probably fine. lemme test this in the kit real quick.
Thanks for posting this, did the same edits, and it seems to work well! Likely too late for Riza but, remember the first digits "06" represents the plugins place in benjapo's load order.
Thanks so much for taking the time to troubleshoot this. You are indeed right - deleting these fixes the issue with NPCs crossing the bridge. I confirmed this with a follower and by watching two NPCs path across. Oddly, they still took a moment to make the transition at what I believe is the cell border, but ended up doing so with no real issue.
I am going to post your findings on the main mod page as I'm sure others will benefit.
What is weird - I peaked in the creation kit and none of these collision boxes or the gate look like they should cause such an issue, yet they do. I can also confirm that first reference you list (the jail door) needs to be deleted. This was confirmed after I experienced the issue with al collision boxes deleted and the door still in place.
Confirmed. I have the same. One bad (low res) birch hiding behind one good (hi res) birch in the market area. That's after DynDOLOD worked well to mop up the other issues.
Turns out this was a problem with a persistent LOD object in my save. I started using DynDOLOD on a save-in-progress. It cleaned up most of the junk so I thought it fixed the whole problem, but there was this one leftover. But ... on a clean new save DynDOLOD fixed everything. My Docks are perfect. I think. Or at least I don't see anything wrong now.
I have TWO different bugs appearing in this mod right now. I am a long-time user, so I am aware of the various incompatibilities that have manifested in large modlists over time. I know this mod isn't perfect. I see that you (Rob) are the latest modder active, so I'll post here. No expectations, just hope.
I should mention that the most likely complicating mods in my load order are JK's Skyrim, BJS's Solitude Exterior, WiZKiD's Landscape and Water Fixes, and Majestic Mountains. While I haven't tried removing various combos of these yet, I have tried many load orders, including Solitude Docks Updated last. I should also mention that I have identical problems with both your ESP and the one from Solitude Docks Updated. The problem is not unique to your version of the ESP.
The FIRST problem ...
Tree LODs persist (are not swapped and replaced) within the area covered by this mod. I can run right up to them and they are still low-res LODs. I am using Happy Little Trees. I have not generated my own LODs yet. Trying to get a stable build before I go through that trouble. I will try to post pics to your images section.
Alright so that is because solitude docks updated incudes what are called .BTT files. These files placed LOD Tree models in the game world. What you would need to do is run your LOD tools to generate fresh assets and lod files (.BTT/.BTO/.BTR) and that would resolve this issue. This technically doesn't cause any issues that are non-visual so it can be ignored until your run LOD tools.
I am unfamiliar with BJS's Solitude Exterior, so if it moves buildings and other stuff around, than it possibly also includes .btt files which would depending on which file wins the overwrite in your left pane, would show in game.
Good to hear. I was guessing that generating my own LOD might make the tree issue go away. I appreciate that you have the expertise to give me some more tangible hope on that point. Thanks.
FYI, "BJS's Solitude Exterior" is pretty minor. It actually has a small footprint very far removed from the docks. It's also seemed very solid (non-conflicting, non-buggy) in my various load orders for years. I mentioned it for completeness, but I don't suspect it. For the cliff issue that's my other problem, I do suspect it's a conflict with one of the other more ambitious mods I mentioned.
Is it safe to just delete the .btt files in Mod Organizer 2 File Tree? Will deleting these files cause some issues? I'm not using dyndolod and I'm not planning to use any lod generating programs.
I have TWO different bugs appearing in this mod right now. I am a long-time user, so I am aware of the various incompatibilities that have manifested in large modlists over time. I know this mod isn't perfect. I see that you (Rob) are the latest modder active, so I'll post here. No expectations, just hope.
I should mention that the most likely complicating mods in my load order are JK's Skyrim, BJS's Solitude Exterior, WiZKiD's Landscape and Water Fixes, and Majestic Mountains. While I haven't tried removing various combos of these yet, I have tried many load orders, including Solitude Docks Updated last. I should also mention that I have identical problems with both your ESP and the one from Solitude Docks Updated. The problem is not unique to your version of the ESP.
The SECOND problem ...
I am familiar way back with problems with this mod where the cliff-face extends and covers some of the back areas of this mod (behind the houses). That's not exactly what is happening. If I look between buildings at the cliff wall, it looks fine. I only notice the problem when I run back there (e.g. to the small garden) and turn around. I see blank textures, or the underside of no-where, if you know what I mean. As if I am on the underside of a blank polygon slope. I will try to post pics to your images section.
Thanks for reading, and thanks for updating the mod.
That sounds like your missing a patch, or otherwise its a load order issue. When Solitude docks places those buildings it sets most of those mountain/rock references to disabled so you dont end up with that issue.
Thanks for the quick response. Not surprised with the answer. Of course I've done my diligence w patches and load order, but hey, that's modding. I'll keep fiddling. There aren't many (e.g. JK's) that get patch coverage for every combo imaginable (or even the most popular mods, like the ones I mentioned). C'est la vie.
So, fer the record, just to make sure my eyes haven't deceived me, I checked for official and unofficial patches again for the combos I suspect - anything worth suspecting, really. Nuthin'. And to make sure I checked the docs for JK's Skyrim: "Mods altering the exterior of Windhelm, Solitude, Markarth and Riften are fully compatible."
Not to say the diagnosis isn't correct. Just to say I think I've covered the obvious bases (again).
(I REALly suspect if I remove Majestic Mountains this behaves. An edumacated guess. But I like Majestic Mountains.)
Hey, question ... you may have worked on patches for _other_ mods that twiddle Solitude, like Kojak's or RedBag's. With a little googling I see (suspected) complaints regarding conflicts between Majestic Mountains and _those_ mods (not _this_ mod). I wonder if you know of a patch made for those projects that might be applicable to this mod ("ESD Terrain Patch" for instance, whatever that does). In other words, where I am looking for a patch for this mod I might be barking up the wrong tree.
Hi dinadan - I've found myself running into the same problem with a similar set of mods for Solitude (no Solitude Exterior though). I thought it might be JK's with Open Cities, but if you're not using those it probably isn't that. I've tried loading SDU and its patches late, but still have landscape issues with the buildings clipping into the cliffs and raised landscape. Did you end up finding any solution to that, like removing Majestic Mountains?
The only solution is to generate LOD assets based on your entire load order. With xLODGen for terrain, texgen for bill oards, and dyndolod for object and tree assets.
I really appreciate all of the improvements you've made to so many mods!
I think there's a navmesh issue that remains here from the original mod.
Followers and NPC's can't walk onto the arch that's above the East Empire Company Warehouse. Here's a short video recording: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ja3zhznt1pbfv5t/navmesh.mp4?dl=0 Just before walking onto the arch, NPC's turn around and run away.
This occurs even if docks is very last in my load order. I know there's a cell border there, and I've tried tweaking the navmesh at that location in CK. But this really has me stumped. Any ideas?
Hmmm ima take a look at this real quick, ill get back to ya. This is just with Solitude Docks update itself right? Not the combo with RedBag's or any other docks editing mods?
32 comments
Just a quick update to the previous issue. I think this might not be related to the navmesh at all!
As an experiment, I deleted everything that's new in both EastEmpireTradingCompanyDocks and EastEmpireWarehouseExterior cells. But I didn't touch the navmesh.
After that NPCs were able to cross the bridge.
So there's weirdly something else placed in the world that distracts the NPCs somehow.
Maybe this is helpful, maybe not :)
It's a combination of all these placed objects:
06010223
0601022B
0601022C
0601022D
0601022E
06012571
If all of these are removed, followers can cross over the bridge.
It needs to be all of them, because if any one of these remain the issue persists.
I have absolutely no idea why, but this seems to do the trick!
Thanks so much for taking the time to troubleshoot this. You are indeed right - deleting these fixes the issue with NPCs crossing the bridge. I confirmed this with a follower and by watching two NPCs path across. Oddly, they still took a moment to make the transition at what I believe is the cell border, but ended up doing so with no real issue.
I am going to post your findings on the main mod page as I'm sure others will benefit.
What is weird - I peaked in the creation kit and none of these collision boxes or the gate look like they should cause such an issue, yet they do. I can also confirm that first reference you list (the jail door) needs to be deleted. This was confirmed after I experienced the issue with al collision boxes deleted and the door still in place.
I can't show the image here on nexus somehow but anyone can help me with this?
This is after I generate the lod with Dyndolod and I still get this.
I should mention that the most likely complicating mods in my load order are JK's Skyrim, BJS's Solitude Exterior, WiZKiD's Landscape and Water Fixes, and Majestic Mountains. While I haven't tried removing various combos of these yet, I have tried many load orders, including Solitude Docks Updated last. I should also mention that I have identical problems with both your ESP and the one from Solitude Docks Updated. The problem is not unique to your version of the ESP.
The FIRST problem ...
Tree LODs persist (are not swapped and replaced) within the area covered by this mod. I can run right up to them and they are still low-res LODs. I am using Happy Little Trees. I have not generated my own LODs yet. Trying to get a stable build before I go through that trouble. I will try to post pics to your images section.
I am unfamiliar with BJS's Solitude Exterior, so if it moves buildings and other stuff around, than it possibly also includes .btt files which would depending on which file wins the overwrite in your left pane, would show in game.
FYI, "BJS's Solitude Exterior" is pretty minor. It actually has a small footprint very far removed from the docks. It's also seemed very solid (non-conflicting, non-buggy) in my various load orders for years. I mentioned it for completeness, but I don't suspect it. For the cliff issue that's my other problem, I do suspect it's a conflict with one of the other more ambitious mods I mentioned.
Thanks again.
Checking the esp in xEdit, found some more navmeshes that could be problematic
- Cell x:01031B - no navmesh. Not sure if is reachable without CoC, thus really needing a navmesh.
- Cell x:0108C5 - 5 navmeshes, 4 of which seem to have few triangles
- Cell x:013765 - 3 navmeshes, 2 of which seem to have few triangles
Not sure if the previously reported collision markers are ok, comment was made before the last update (2.0) yet those are still present in esp.I should mention that the most likely complicating mods in my load order are JK's Skyrim, BJS's Solitude Exterior, WiZKiD's Landscape and Water Fixes, and Majestic Mountains. While I haven't tried removing various combos of these yet, I have tried many load orders, including Solitude Docks Updated last. I should also mention that I have identical problems with both your ESP and the one from Solitude Docks Updated. The problem is not unique to your version of the ESP.
The SECOND problem ...
I am familiar way back with problems with this mod where the cliff-face extends and covers some of the back areas of this mod (behind the houses). That's not exactly what is happening. If I look between buildings at the cliff wall, it looks fine. I only notice the problem when I run back there (e.g. to the small garden) and turn around. I see blank textures, or the underside of no-where, if you know what I mean. As if I am on the underside of a blank polygon slope. I will try to post pics to your images section.
Thanks for reading, and thanks for updating the mod.
Not to say the diagnosis isn't correct. Just to say I think I've covered the obvious bases (again).
(I REALly suspect if I remove Majestic Mountains this behaves. An edumacated guess. But I like Majestic Mountains.)
I really appreciate all of the improvements you've made to so many mods!
I think there's a navmesh issue that remains here from the original mod.
Followers and NPC's can't walk onto the arch that's above the East Empire Company Warehouse.
Here's a short video recording: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ja3zhznt1pbfv5t/navmesh.mp4?dl=0
Just before walking onto the arch, NPC's turn around and run away.
This occurs even if docks is very last in my load order.
I know there's a cell border there, and I've tried tweaking the navmesh at that location in CK. But this really has me stumped.
Any ideas?
Everything is proper in the CK and in xEdit so i for the life of me can't figure out why they wont cross that edge. ima ask around.