I have no idea why, but some spells seem to give a lot of experience, I don't know if the numbers are correct because I've never played with Spell Research before. The rough numbers Paralyze spell (expert-level spell) 1 hour 7000 novice 3000 Apprentice 1300 Adept 700 Expert 400 Master
studying for 1 hour seems not too weird, I wouldn't be suspicious if the 3 hrs study session numbers weren't so high. Are either of these numbers normal? I don't have the most complicated load order, nothing else that I would expect to affect this. (I do have expanded Grimoire and its patch, with this after that patch, but even turning that patch off these numbers remain the same)
Hi. This is calculated by Spell Research. And yes: studying expert level spells will trivialize lower level experience.
To balance that, use mods like Immersive Learning DESTified that require you to spend time to learn spells from tomes (and skillevels in school of magic to reduce time spent reading) to balance it out a bit. You can still spend an in game week to learn an expert spell, and cheese low level experience. But that is probably more effort than you would like in your game.
I'm on thin ice with this in terms of the depth of my understanding... but I think I found an issue.
Spell Research 2.2.2 SSE This mod Requiem 5.3.1 (though I don't think that's relevant)
Issue 1: in-game, when I use Spell Resarch MCM to "import spells", Requiem and Update import triggers not firing. Spells do not get imported (Requiem and Update import scripts you added never get activated/run).
Issue 2: Requiem spells like "healing aura on self" are "not standard" and can't be studied. (I'm assuming this is a consequence of not having been imported.)
Investigated:
I used xEdit to verity that the import quest records (SpellResearchRequiem402Patch.esp > Quest) are there, modified versions for Skyrim, Dawnguard, Dragonborn.
I also see your added _SR_QuestImportRequiem, _SR_QuestImportedUpdateRequiemed quests.
But the FormID List (form id 0905B354 for me) "_SR_ListImportQuests" has only the base skyrim/dawnguard/dragonborn scripts.
As far as I can tell, the _SR_listImportQuests list is referenced by the ImportMain script import flow to determine the list of "what import scripts should I run?"
Again, "as far as I can tell", your two new import scripts are not in the list, and so don't get run.
Attempted solution:
I added the _SR_QuestImportRequiem, _SR_QuestImportUpdateRequiemed quests to the Form ID list _SR_listImportQuests, saved, and loaded my game.
Now, when I re-import spells in-game, I get the prompts for "import Requiem?" and "import Update?" that I was not seeing before.
Also, after import, the requiem spells (e.g. healing aura on self) are now "recognizable" for study.
So... Did something change? Am I right that the scripts need to be in the FormID list? Or is something wrong in my setup where reqtificator should be merging your script references in automatically...?
What you describe sound like a load order issue. As described in the description, I have had to overwrite some of the scripts in order for this to work.
If you are like me, you have probably added more of the spell research mod expansions. I suspect (but cannot of course not guarantee) that the culprit is found there as I have had the exact same bug in testing the mod and I resolved it through fixing my load order.
I just tried a "strip out everything" test, leaving only these mods active, in this order:
Free AE update to Skyrim (1.6.640.0) DLC: hearthfires, dragonborn, dawnguard CC: survial mode, curios, AdvDSGS, Fish (the Skyrim AE creation club) Unofficial SSE patch SKSE Address library for SKSE SSE Engine Fixes Bug Fixes SSE Scrambled Bugs Papyrus Util SE - Modders scripting utility functions powerofthree's Paypyrus extender papyrus tweaks NG SkyUI Alternate Start (to skip long game intro) Spell Research Requiem 5.3.1 Requiem - Dragonborn Patch (Fozar's Dragonborn) YOUR MOD Requiem for the indifferent
The behavior is as I described above: skyrim, dawnguard and dragonborn prompts appear in-game, SR imports them, SR reports "all spell imported."
Your scripts for requiem spells never get activated, the prompt doesn't appear, and the spells are not imported.
Have you tried such a test yourself, with current versions of game, skse, etc?
With respect, your mod doesn't seem to actually do what you think it does. The pieces are all there, but the script activation process is not connecting. Is it possible you have something else loaded in your test setup that's patching over a problem that you don't know exists?
I'm happy to admit ignorance if there's something in the above listed mods that's causing a change in how the Form List is being treated in-game or by the Req 5.3.1 reqtificator, but absent that your mod certainly appears to not be doing what you think it's doing.
I really appreciate the work you've done here, and want to use it. I have no desire to duplicate all that effort in a new version, so I'd be happy to send you my modifications if/when you confirm an issue.
I found the issue I believe. Re-added the SpellResearchImportPlayerAlias.pex script in order to solve the import challenges. Without this script, Requiem would not be detected.
Ok, "you're welcome". I'm going to go ahead and keep my own patch. The Lightning Bolt spell, for instance, shows up in game as Not Recognized and can't be learned or studied. (I was wrong; was because I was testing on existing save -- new game eliminates issue.) And you still have the vendor issue I reported back on Jan 31 and which you seem to be just ignoring. Do this: install SR and your patch, run the reqtificator, open xEdit and go look at these: Requiem.esp Container TreasBanditChestBoss SpellResearch.esp has _SR_LootBanditBase [LVLI:18025388] Requiem for the indifferent.esp does not REQ_VendorChest_Wizard_Morthal SpellResearch.esp has _SR_LVLIMerchantWizard [LVLI:1800C0CA] Requiem for the indifferent.esp does not REQ_VendorChest_WCollege_Enthir SpellResearch.esp has _SR_LVLIMerchantWizard [LVLI:1800C0CA] Requiem for the indifferent.esp does not Etc...
None of the mage vendors sell SR mage items. None of the Alchemist vendors sell SR alchemist items. None of the loot chests have SR items as possible loot choices.
Again, I'm very appreciative of the work you did on the ingredients and spell import data files, but I'm going to move away from this and build my own version. At this point I have too much time into debugging this to continue to depend on it rather than taking control of things and building what I want myself.
Thanks again for the effort, I know you're working for free. Best of luck with things.
Hi. Thank you for the feedback. You are absolutely right in that the issue in previous patch was due to a missing script that was present in other Spell Research magic mod patches. In my instance it was included in Spell Research Patch Compendium: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/61177 and in testing the patch, it was a non-issue.
You are also entirely correct that the patch does not include lootlist patches. The reason for this is that: 1. The scope of the patch was to create a Requiemmed Skyrim, Dawnguard, Dragonborn and Update experience for the massive amount of ingredients and spells in the base game 2. Add in Requiem spells, ingredients and artifacts with correct Spell Researchable archetype and levels. 3. Work well within large modlists.
Adding in the lootlists were not on the "radar" as this was handled elsewhere. Still not sure if it is worthwhile to do to be honest as so many mods modify lootlists that you are practically forced to create a manual patch.
Edited to add:
I found 2 instances of Requiem overwriting Spell research lootlists: 0009Af0A - LItemMiscVendorMiscItems75 0010FACD - LootWarlockRandom
The issue with those two, is that in my load order, multiples of mods overwrite these two instances. Especially the vendorlist.
Solution is to build your modlist, and create a patch that are tied to your own modlist. Either as a megapatch, or to make smaller individual ones.
Question: looking at this TESEDIT, I see that there are changes to some containers and paper/ink Misc items, made by spell research, that are not carried forward past requiem's overwrites. Same for changes to various mage/alchemist vendor inventory and loot chests. Is that intentional?
The lack of carried-forward edits on Misc Item "Roll of paper" has the effect of making paper horribly expensive for Spell Research gameplay, for instance (Requiem changes base price from SR's 4 septims to 50, causing in-game adjusted price of paper for a new character to be ~290).
Just wondering if this was an oversight or if it was intentional and I'm misunderstanding something (or intentional "I don't care, not worth fixing").
Edit: lack of carry-forward of merchant chest Container items seems to also cause cauldron/ink/etc to not appear for sale at vendors, as well as causing SR-related loot (tomes, artifacts) to not appear in lootable reward chests.
(note: I think these are minor compared to the amount of work in this patch generally, so just asking for clarification; I've patched the Paper/Quill price thing, and am working on patching the vendor/loot chest thing. Simple edits in TESEDIT so not accomplishing anything hard... but let me know if you'd like a copy of the additional .esp for changes.)
Ok, thanks. I'll upload my patch as a separate mod. Without it, SR items don't appear in loot chests (since those are set by Requiem, erasing SR changes), and vendors don't sell SR items as they're supposed to (same reason, requiem overwrites vendor loot chests definitions, erasing SR additions).
Should this be compatible with 3BFTweaks? I looked in xEdit and it didn't seem to make any changes that would obviously affect Spell Research, but I'm not sure.
EDIT: Oh, the new spells added by 3BFTWeaks will not be compatible. Still not sure about the base Requiem spells that 3FBTweaks alters though.
No. This is merely for base requiem. Any additional spells will need to be added separately. And if other spell mods change the level of the spell (or replace it entirely by overriding the spell and replace it with another (like Requiem does with transmute ore)) this need to be addressed in a new patch.
What this could be though is a good base for creating a specific patch for 3bftweaks.
So with all of the changes you made in version 2.0 to the base mod is this still usable with other Spell Research patches made for other mods? The patches I am thinking about in particular are:
The problem with the Mega merge is that it is based on vanilla balance, and the way archetypes are selected are suspect. I tried the machine learning way but I was not impressed with the actual concrete result.
So I went through and adjusted all spells, archetypes and ingredients manually and updated them based on Requiem.esp and the insight I have achieved through deep dives into Spell Research and lore.
If you put mine last you will get message that you can import a requiemmed version of vanilla with dlcs. I have not touched expander grimoire patch so it should import just fine. No idea if there will be conflicts
That's awesome, thank you! I'm still waiting for the official port, but I was afraid there would be no patch for Spell Research... Thanks for making this!
It's why I made the patch. I was hoping "someone else" sat down and made the patch. But it seems as "everyone", wanted "someone" to do it. And it ended up into "noone" doing anything until "someone" got fed up and created the patch that "everyone" wanted "someone else" to make.
But now that I know how to make these things, I have a goal to make another for Requiem Expanded Grimoire as well.
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The rough numbers
Paralyze spell (expert-level spell)
1 hour
7000 novice
3000 Apprentice
1300 Adept
700 Expert
400 Master
3 hours
181000 novice
51000 Apprentice
14500 Adept
4000 Expert
1100 Master
studying for 1 hour seems not too weird, I wouldn't be suspicious if the 3 hrs study session numbers weren't so high. Are either of these numbers normal? I don't have the most complicated load order, nothing else that I would expect to affect this. (I do have expanded Grimoire and its patch, with this after that patch, but even turning that patch off these numbers remain the same)
To balance that, use mods like Immersive Learning DESTified that require you to spend time to learn spells from tomes (and skillevels in school of magic to reduce time spent reading) to balance it out a bit. You can still spend an in game week to learn an expert spell, and cheese low level experience. But that is probably more effort than you would like in your game.
Spell Research 2.2.2 SSE
This mod
Requiem 5.3.1 (though I don't think that's relevant)
Issue 1: in-game, when I use Spell Resarch MCM to "import spells", Requiem and Update import triggers not firing. Spells do not get imported (Requiem and Update import scripts you added never get activated/run).
Issue 2: Requiem spells like "healing aura on self" are "not standard" and can't be studied. (I'm assuming this is a consequence of not having been imported.)
Investigated:
I used xEdit to verity that the import quest records (SpellResearchRequiem402Patch.esp > Quest) are there, modified versions for Skyrim, Dawnguard, Dragonborn.
I also see your added _SR_QuestImportRequiem, _SR_QuestImportedUpdateRequiemed quests.
But the FormID List (form id 0905B354 for me) "_SR_ListImportQuests" has only the base skyrim/dawnguard/dragonborn scripts.
As far as I can tell, the _SR_listImportQuests list is referenced by the ImportMain script import flow to determine the list of "what import scripts should I run?"
Again, "as far as I can tell", your two new import scripts are not in the list, and so don't get run.
Attempted solution:
I added the _SR_QuestImportRequiem, _SR_QuestImportUpdateRequiemed quests to the Form ID list _SR_listImportQuests, saved, and loaded my game.
Now, when I re-import spells in-game, I get the prompts for "import Requiem?" and "import Update?" that I was not seeing before.
Also, after import, the requiem spells (e.g. healing aura on self) are now "recognizable" for study.
So... Did something change? Am I right that the scripts need to be in the FormID list? Or is something wrong in my setup where reqtificator should be merging your script references in automatically...?
What you describe sound like a load order issue. As described in the description, I have had to overwrite some of the scripts in order for this to work.
If you are like me, you have probably added more of the spell research mod expansions. I suspect (but cannot of course not guarantee) that the culprit is found there as I have had the exact same bug in testing the mod and I resolved it through fixing my load order.
Free AE update to Skyrim (1.6.640.0)
DLC: hearthfires, dragonborn, dawnguard
CC: survial mode, curios, AdvDSGS, Fish (the Skyrim AE creation club)
Unofficial SSE patch
SKSE
Address library for SKSE
SSE Engine Fixes
Bug Fixes SSE
Scrambled Bugs
Papyrus Util SE - Modders scripting utility functions
powerofthree's Paypyrus extender
papyrus tweaks NG
SkyUI
Alternate Start (to skip long game intro)
Spell Research
Requiem 5.3.1
Requiem - Dragonborn Patch (Fozar's Dragonborn)
YOUR MOD
Requiem for the indifferent
The behavior is as I described above: skyrim, dawnguard and dragonborn prompts appear in-game, SR imports them, SR reports "all spell imported."
Your scripts for requiem spells never get activated, the prompt doesn't appear, and the spells are not imported.
Have you tried such a test yourself, with current versions of game, skse, etc?
With respect, your mod doesn't seem to actually do what you think it does. The pieces are all there, but the script activation process is not connecting. Is it possible you have something else loaded in your test setup that's patching over a problem that you don't know exists?
I'm happy to admit ignorance if there's something in the above listed mods that's causing a change in how the Form List is being treated in-game or by the Req 5.3.1 reqtificator, but absent that your mod certainly appears to not be doing what you think it's doing.
I really appreciate the work you've done here, and want to use it. I have no desire to duplicate all that effort in a new version, so I'd be happy to send you my modifications if/when you confirm an issue.
Re-added the SpellResearchImportPlayerAlias.pex script in order to solve the import challenges. Without this script, Requiem would not be detected.
Please test if this solve your issue.
The Lightning Bolt spell, for instance, shows up in game as Not Recognized and can't be learned or studied.(I was wrong; was because I was testing on existing save -- new game eliminates issue.)And you still have the vendor issue I reported back on Jan 31 and which you seem to be just ignoring. Do this: install SR and your patch, run the reqtificator, open xEdit and go look at these:
Requiem.esp
Container
TreasBanditChestBoss
SpellResearch.esp has _SR_LootBanditBase [LVLI:18025388]
Requiem for the indifferent.esp does not
REQ_VendorChest_Wizard_Morthal
SpellResearch.esp has _SR_LVLIMerchantWizard [LVLI:1800C0CA]
Requiem for the indifferent.esp does not
REQ_VendorChest_WCollege_Enthir
SpellResearch.esp has _SR_LVLIMerchantWizard [LVLI:1800C0CA]
Requiem for the indifferent.esp does not
Etc...
None of the mage vendors sell SR mage items. None of the Alchemist vendors sell SR alchemist items. None of the loot chests have SR items as possible loot choices.
Again, I'm very appreciative of the work you did on the ingredients and spell import data files, but I'm going to move away from this and build my own version. At this point I have too much time into debugging this to continue to depend on it rather than taking control of things and building what I want myself.
Thanks again for the effort, I know you're working for free. Best of luck with things.
Thank you for the feedback. You are absolutely right in that the issue in previous patch was due to a missing script that was present in other Spell Research magic mod patches. In my instance it was included in Spell Research Patch Compendium: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/61177 and in testing the patch, it was a non-issue.
You are also entirely correct that the patch does not include lootlist patches. The reason for this is that:
1. The scope of the patch was to create a Requiemmed Skyrim, Dawnguard, Dragonborn and Update experience for the massive amount of ingredients and spells in the base game
2. Add in Requiem spells, ingredients and artifacts with correct Spell Researchable archetype and levels.
3. Work well within large modlists.
Adding in the lootlists were not on the "radar" as this was handled elsewhere. Still not sure if it is worthwhile to do to be honest as so many mods modify lootlists that you are practically forced to create a manual patch.
Edited to add:
I found 2 instances of Requiem overwriting Spell research lootlists:
0009Af0A - LItemMiscVendorMiscItems75
0010FACD - LootWarlockRandom
The issue with those two, is that in my load order, multiples of mods overwrite these two instances. Especially the vendorlist.
Solution is to build your modlist, and create a patch that are tied to your own modlist. Either as a megapatch, or to make smaller individual ones.
The lack of carried-forward edits on Misc Item "Roll of paper" has the effect of making paper horribly expensive for Spell Research gameplay, for instance (Requiem changes base price from SR's 4 septims to 50, causing in-game adjusted price of paper for a new character to be ~290).
Just wondering if this was an oversight or if it was intentional and I'm misunderstanding something (or intentional "I don't care, not worth fixing").
Edit: lack of carry-forward of merchant chest Container items seems to also cause cauldron/ink/etc to not appear for sale at vendors, as well as causing SR-related loot (tomes, artifacts) to not appear in lootable reward chests.
(note: I think these are minor compared to the amount of work in this patch generally, so just asking for clarification; I've patched the Paper/Quill price thing, and am working on patching the vendor/loot chest thing. Simple edits in TESEDIT so not accomplishing anything hard... but let me know if you'd like a copy of the additional .esp for changes.)
This mod does not touch the lootlists. It only concerns itself with the import of the spells and requiem specific "stuff".
The reason I left that out, is that this is often managed by other patches (at least in my load order).
Without it, SR items don't appear in loot chests (since those are set by Requiem, erasing SR changes), and vendors don't sell SR items as they're supposed to (same reason, requiem overwrites vendor loot chests definitions, erasing SR additions).
EDIT: Oh, the new spells added by 3BFTWeaks will not be compatible. Still not sure about the base Requiem spells that 3FBTweaks alters though.
No. This is merely for base requiem. Any additional spells will need to be added separately. And if other spell mods change the level of the spell (or replace it entirely by overriding the spell and replace it with another (like Requiem does with transmute ore)) this need to be addressed in a new patch.
What this could be though is a good base for creating a specific patch for 3bftweaks.
Yes it is. I may create a version with that option at some point.
Looking very much forward to the Magic Redone patch.
Thank you for your amazing work!
Edited to add: Make sure to place the mod on the LEFT SIDE in MO2. Below Spell Research or anything that touches spell research import scripts.
Edited to add: That means BELOW Wildlander main mod on the LEFT side of MO2 (if you use Wildlander modlist)
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/61177
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/59245
The problem with the Mega merge is that it is based on vanilla balance, and the way archetypes are selected are suspect. I tried the machine learning way but I was not impressed with the actual concrete result.
So I went through and adjusted all spells, archetypes and ingredients manually and updated them based on Requiem.esp and the insight I have achieved through deep dives into Spell Research and lore.
If you put mine last you will get message that you can import a requiemmed version of vanilla with dlcs. I have not touched expander grimoire patch so it should import just fine. No idea if there will be conflicts
But now that I know how to make these things, I have a goal to make another for Requiem Expanded Grimoire as well.