The "Warning: Navmesh triangle not found" messages in xedit are exactly that... warnings. They mean "have a closer look at this because something might be wrong".
For example, suppose that EspX and EspY both edit the same door reference and navmesh. EspX places the marker on an XXX triangle which doesn't exist in the navmesh of EspY, while EspY places the marker on a YYY triangle which doesn't exist in the navmesh of EspX... xedit would always issue a warning for the plugin higher in the load order. It seems to me that xedit checks the Teleport Marker Triangle data from the first plugin using the navmesh data from the second one, so of course things don't match. Bug or intended? No idea.
So, when does such a warning show a real error? When the 'guilty' door reference is not overridden by another one that sets things right, or when the error is reported when checking the lowest-in-the-load-order plugin itself.
I'm investigating the issue with the Hag boss appearing as "double" in HagsEnd01 when you try to kill her at her trône the second time. Note the player try to kill her at 4 instances and its the second instance at the trône near the old DB Assassin when her double appear. She is supposed to stay in a nearby hidden cell but maybe its the navemeshe edits of this mod that cause her to "jump" to main HagsEnd01 cell.
Me too in 10 years of play through I have never encountered this problem but in my two latest plays I encountered it. Then I remembered that I had installed recently Navigator.. I just removed Navigator and played with a previous save (before joining the DB) and the Hag boss worked flawlessly. Last time I remember having tried to displace the hidden cell far away from the throne but it didn't work.
It's not saying that the navemeshe of this mod are not done the right way but some times the developers of Bethesda do some scripting that works for a particular cell. (I imagine they have followed trial/errors so that their tweaks work)
I saw this question elsewhere, and thought someone here might know:
Do moving NPCs always try to stay on the lines of the navmesh, or will you sometimes see them crossing the interior of a triangle - say from the mid-point of one line segment to the mid-point of another?
I don't how that's coded in the game engine but, according to what I see (movement in-game and pathing tests in the CK), the navmeshes define a "surface" on which the actors can calculate a path, they don't have "lines" like in Oblivion. Just imagine how awkward would be the movement if they walked the sides and vertexes of triangles.
Since I mentioned Oblivion, another difference is that in that game they move along "path lines" while travelling or idling, but in combat they can move anywhere. In Skyrim they never walk on areas without a navmesh "surface", combat or not.
That's interesting. So if I build a large rectangular room, I could cover it with just two large triangles. Is there some reason I would choose to use many small triangles instead?
No reason at all, unless the room is not completely empty and you need to draw navmeshes around obstacles. But of course you might instead place 'navcut' markers around those obstacles so that they are avoided. It's a choice, although in vanilla the "draw around" method is the preferred one and navcut markers are used only on special occasions.
Can you please disable "Replace new line symbol with code & #13;& #10;" in fomod creation tool before next update? Spaces in quote because Nexus properly uses code as newline /r/n (or CR LF) combo, while fomod installers show that as plaintext string in description.
Sure, although, even if I don't use installers, I do have a portable version (2.2.2.1) of MO that I keep for testing and it doesn't show as plain text in it, it just places an empty space between the lines. Maybe it's too old.
Hey Tarlazo, thanks for the mod. I have one quick question. In dragon rising quest, npcs just get stuck forever, including Irileth. I have to push them to make them continue on their path. Can this mod cause this issue and can I uninstall this mod mid-playthrough. Thanks
No, it can't, unless they get stuck in one of the locations listed in the description :) More seriously, it does indeed sound like a navmesh issue, but this doesn't have or edit exterior ones. And yes, you can disable or uninstall this mod anytime.
Thanks for the quick reply; they are getting stuck near the western watchtower and near the castle doors of windhelm. The four guards and Irileth just stack up on each other. So yeah, the only mod that I have that modifies navmeshes is this one, so that is why I was wondering why it happens.
Also, should I worry if something like this happens, or this is just skyrim and no matter what I do, some things will just break??? Thanks again for answering
That's not just Skyrim, that's something wrong in your load order. I wouldn't be so sure that you have nothing that edits navmeshes, 99% of the mods that do don't declare it.
Hi, I am getting a CTD with a mod which adds a boss to the area where Jurgen Windcaller's tomb is. The logs say it's a pathing issue caused by Navigator, and the author of the mod says he didn't touch navmeshes. Is there some way I can fix this, other than just getting rid of the other mod?
Nice log, pity it's all Greek to me :) I can only confirm that the navmesh "looks" fine, that error-checking and pathing tests in the CK report no issues, and that I, for what it's worth, never had CTDs. BTW, what's the mod? I might find the time to have a look at it and possibly get some ideas.
Nope, not a clue. The only thing I noticed is that the boss doesn't have its facegen files, but that used to cause only "black face" issues (at least in SSE 1.5.97, no idea whether they are still needed in AE.)
A simple test should give some answers. Disable Navigator and try a few times, better if with a saved game in which you hadn't entered the cell with the new boss. Then re-enable it, disable the boss mod and try again (maybe spawn something yourself to have a fight where the boss should have been, a bear or whatever.) If the CTDs happen only with both mods enabled, they are obviously incompatible (for reasons I can't fathom.) If you also have CTDs with just one enabled, that gives a clear indication of which mod is causing them.
Oh, that's odd then. It wasn't in my game and it kept loading below LotD and overwriting it's changes to a dungeon. I had to manually flag it as a master so I could sort it above LotD, which is also a master.
Odd indeed, a plugin with an .esl file extension is automatically a master. Or at least it used to be, you never know with those daily engine "updates".
Oh, I never knew that. I'm on VR and we only recently gained esl support, so maybe it also works a little differently too but it's an exciting time to mod Skyrim VR right now!
Give Feedback
492 comments
They mean "have a closer look at this because something might be wrong".
For example, suppose that EspX and EspY both edit the same door reference and navmesh.
EspX places the marker on an XXX triangle which doesn't exist in the navmesh of EspY, while EspY places the marker on a YYY triangle which doesn't exist in the navmesh of EspX... xedit would always issue a warning for the plugin higher in the load order.
It seems to me that xedit checks the Teleport Marker Triangle data from the first plugin using the navmesh data from the second one, so of course things don't match. Bug or intended? No idea.
So, when does such a warning show a real error?
When the 'guilty' door reference is not overridden by another one that sets things right, or when the error is reported when checking the lowest-in-the-load-order plugin itself.
Note the player try to kill her at 4 instances and its the second instance at the trône near the old DB Assassin when her double appear.
She is supposed to stay in a nearby hidden cell but maybe its the navemeshe edits of this mod that cause her to "jump" to main HagsEnd01 cell.
Unfortunately, that's all I can say now because I've long since deleted Skyrim from my computer.
I just removed Navigator and played with a previous save (before joining the DB) and the Hag boss worked flawlessly.
Last time I remember having tried to displace the hidden cell far away from the throne but it didn't work.
It's not saying that the navemeshe of this mod are not done the right way but some times the developers of Bethesda do some scripting that works for a particular cell.
(I imagine they have followed trial/errors so that their tweaks work)
Meanwhile, anyone may feel free to issue a fix if necessary.
That side effect is admittedly unexpected.
All my mods must be considered, bugs allowing, "final version".
Do moving NPCs always try to stay on the lines of the navmesh, or will you sometimes see them crossing the interior of a triangle - say from the mid-point of one line segment to the mid-point of another?
Just imagine how awkward would be the movement if they walked the sides and vertexes of triangles.
Since I mentioned Oblivion, another difference is that in that game they move along "path lines" while travelling or idling, but in combat they can move anywhere.
In Skyrim they never walk on areas without a navmesh "surface", combat or not.
But of course you might instead place 'navcut' markers around those obstacles so that they are avoided.
It's a choice, although in vanilla the "draw around" method is the preferred one and navcut markers are used only on special occasions.
Spaces in quote because Nexus properly uses code as newline /r/n (or CR LF) combo, while fomod installers show that as plaintext string in description.
Maybe it's too old.
More seriously, it does indeed sound like a navmesh issue, but this doesn't have or edit exterior ones.
And yes, you can disable or uninstall this mod anytime.
Also, should I worry if something like this happens, or this is just skyrim and no matter what I do, some things will just break??? Thanks again for answering
I wouldn't be so sure that you have nothing that edits navmeshes, 99% of the mods that do don't declare it.
Log entry below~
STACK:
[RSP+0 ] 0x7FF62BF625D4 (void* -> SkyrimSE.exe+04A25D4mov rax, rsi)
[RSP+8 ] 0x1B8C3DAED1A (void*)
[RSP+10 ] 0x1B878F25828 (NavMesh*)
File: "Navigator-NavFixes.esl"
Flags: 0x00000008 kInitialized
FormID: 0x00085D0D
FormType: NavMesh (73)
[RSP+18 ] 0x1B76B013B00 (CombatNavmeshSearchT<CombatPathingGoalPolicyRetreat,CombatPathingSearchPolicyStandard>*)
[RSP+20 ] 0x7FF62C333C10 (void* -> SkyrimSE.exe+0873C10nop)
[RSP+28 ] 0x5D0D00AE (size_t) [1561133230]
[RSP+30 ] 0x1B76B013C90 (void*)
[RSP+38 ] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+40 ] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+48 ] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+50 ] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+58 ] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+60 ] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+68 ] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+70 ] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+78 ] 0x1BA72208C00 (void*)
[RSP+80 ] 0x1B76B013B00 (CombatNavmeshSearchT<CombatPathingGoalPolicyRetreat,CombatPathingSearchPolicyStandard>*)
[RSP+88 ] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+90 ] 0x8F756FF550 (void*)
[RSP+98 ] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+A0 ] 0x1B76B013B00 (CombatNavmeshSearchT<CombatPathingGoalPolicyRetreat,CombatPathingSearchPolicyStandard>*)
[RSP+A8 ] 0x8F756FF5E0 (void*)
[RSP+B0 ] 0x7FF62C2D9A74 (void* -> SkyrimSE.exe+0819A74cmp qword ptr [rsi+0x128], 0x00)
[RSP+B8 ] 0x8F756FF750 (void*)
[RSP+C0 ] 0x7FF6C3DAED1A (size_t) [140697824587034]
[RSP+C8 ] 0x1B743913440 (void*)
[RSP+D0 ] 0x5D0D00AE (size_t) [1561133230]
[RSP+D8 ] 0x1BAC4E318C7 (size_t) [1901678762183]
[RSP+E0 ] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+E8 ] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+F0 ] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+F8 ] 0x1BA72034FE0 (CombatPathBuilderT<CombatPathBuilderOpen,CombatPathingGoalPolicyRetreat,CombatPathingSearchPolicyStandard>*)
[RSP+100] 0x7FF62C33242F (void* -> SkyrimSE.exe+087242Flea rax, [rsp+0x30])
[RSP+108] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+110] 0x8F756FF738 (void*)
[RSP+118] 0x8F756FF738 (void*)
[RSP+120] 0x4530A9A14617AC89 (size_t) [4985671297629924489]
[RSP+128] 0x1B8C52F858E (void*)
[RSP+130] 0x1BA78186490 (void*)
[RSP+138] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+140] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+148] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+150] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+158] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+160] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+168] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+170] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+178] 0x1B878F25828 (NavMesh*)
File: "Navigator-NavFixes.esl"
Flags: 0x00000008 kInitialized
FormID: 0x00085D0D
FormType: NavMesh (73)
[RSP+180] 0x1BA722000AE (void*)
[RSP+188] 0x4530A9A14617AC89 (size_t) [4985671297629924489]
[RSP+190] 0xC4821186 (size_t) [3296858502]
[RSP+198] 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFE (size_t) [uint: 18446744073709551614 int: -2]
[RSP+1A0] 0x1BA72034FE0 (CombatPathBuilderT<CombatPathBuilderOpen,CombatPathingGoalPolicyRetreat,CombatPathingSearchPolicyStandard>*)
[RSP+1A8] 0x1BA72034FE0 (CombatPathBuilderT<CombatPathBuilderOpen,CombatPathingGoalPolicyRetreat,CombatPathingSearchPolicyStandard>*)
[RSP+1B0] 0x1BA72034FE0 (CombatPathBuilderT<CombatPathBuilderOpen,CombatPathingGoalPolicyRetreat,CombatPathingSearchPolicyStandard>*)
[RSP+1B8] 0x1BA72034FE0 (CombatPathBuilderT<CombatPathBuilderOpen,CombatPathingGoalPolicyRetreat,CombatPathingSearchPolicyStandard>*)
[RSP+1C0] 0x7FF62C32F784 (void* -> SkyrimSE.exe+086F784nop)
[RSP+1C8] 0x1BA72034FE0 (CombatPathBuilderT<CombatPathBuilderOpen,CombatPathingGoalPolicyRetreat,CombatPathingSearchPolicyStandard>*)
[RSP+1D0] 0x7FF62C333D58 (void* -> SkyrimSE.exe+0873D58nop)
[RSP+1D8] 0x8FC4841170 (size_t) [617477312880]
[RSP+1E0] 0x1B8779F33C0 (PathingCell*)
[RSP+1E8] 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFE (size_t) [uint: 18446744073709551614 int: -2]
[RSP+1F0] 0x7FF62D3A80F8 (void* -> SkyrimSE.exe+18E80F8xor dh, al)
[RSP+1F8] 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFE (size_t) [uint: 18446744073709551614 int: -2]
[RSP+200] 0xC4841170 (size_t) [3296989552]
[RSP+208] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+210] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+218] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+220] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+228] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+230] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+238] 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFE (size_t) [uint: 18446744073709551614 int: -2]
[RSP+240] 0x1BA72208CF0 (void*)
[RSP+248] 0x8F756FF750 (void*)
[RSP+250] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+258] 0x768 (size_t) [1896]
[RSP+260] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+268] 0x8F756FF738 (void*)
[RSP+270] 0x1BA72034FE0 (CombatPathBuilderT<CombatPathBuilderOpen,CombatPathingGoalPolicyRetreat,CombatPathingSearchPolicyStandard>*)
[RSP+278] 0x7FF62EAA6DB8 (AutoRegisterCombatPathingRequestGeneric<CombatPathingGoalPolicyRetreat,CombatPathingSearchPolicyStandard,CombatPathDestinationNone>*)
[RSP+280] 0x7FF62C32F879 (void* -> SkyrimSE.exe+086F879mov eax, [rbx+0x48])
[RSP+288] 0x1BA72034FE0 (CombatPathBuilderT<CombatPathBuilderOpen,CombatPathingGoalPolicyRetreat,CombatPathingSearchPolicyStandard>*)
[RSP+290] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+298] 0x8F00000000 (size_t) [614180323328]
[RSP+2A0] 0x1B76B013B00 (CombatNavmeshSearchT<CombatPathingGoalPolicyRetreat,CombatPathingSearchPolicyStandard>*)
[RSP+2A8] 0x1BA72034FE0 (CombatPathBuilderT<CombatPathBuilderOpen,CombatPathingGoalPolicyRetreat,CombatPathingSearchPolicyStandard>*)
[RSP+2B0] 0x7FF62C33665C (void* -> SkyrimSE.exe+087665Cmovzx edi, al)
[RSP+2B8] 0x7 (size_t) [7]
[RSP+2C0] 0x1B7FDA41190 (void*)
[RSP+2C8] 0x1BA72208CC0 (PathingTaskData*)
[RSP+2D0] 0x1BA72208CC0 (PathingTaskData*)
[RSP+2D8] 0x1BA78186480 (CombatPathingRequestGeneric<CombatPathingGoalPolicyRetreat,CombatPathingSearchPolicyStandard>*)
[RSP+2E0] 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFE (size_t) [uint: 18446744073709551614 int: -2]
[RSP+2E8] 0x8F756FF750 (void*)
[RSP+2F0] 0x7FF62C33CDA3 (void* -> SkyrimSE.exe+087CDA3movzx esi, al)
[RSP+2F8] 0x1BA78186480 (CombatPathingRequestGeneric<CombatPathingGoalPolicyRetreat,CombatPathingSearchPolicyStandard>*)
[RSP+300] 0x1BA72208CF0 (void*)
[RSP+308] 0xFFFFFFFF (size_t) [4294967295]
[RSP+310] 0x1BA78186480 (CombatPathingRequestGeneric<CombatPathingGoalPolicyRetreat,CombatPathingSearchPolicyStandard>*)
[RSP+318] 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFE (size_t) [uint: 18446744073709551614 int: -2]
[RSP+320] 0x7FF6000000AF (size_t) [140694538682543]
[RSP+328] 0x1BA72208CF8 (void*)
[RSP+330] 0x7FF62EAA6DB8 (AutoRegisterCombatPathingRequestGeneric<CombatPathingGoalPolicyRetreat,CombatPathingSearchPolicyStandard,CombatPathDestinationNone>*)
[RSP+338] 0xFFFFFF00 (size_t) [4294967040]
[RSP+340] 0x1B777CFDD80 (void*)
[RSP+348] 0x4E (size_t) [78]
[RSP+350] 0x7FF62CBD07E8 (void* -> SkyrimSE.exe+11107E8movzx esi, al)
[RSP+358] 0x4E (size_t) [78]
[RSP+360] 0x1BA78186480 (CombatPathingRequestGeneric<CombatPathingGoalPolicyRetreat,CombatPathingSearchPolicyStandard>*)
[RSP+368] 0x8F756FF750 (void*)
[RSP+370] 0x1BA78186480 (CombatPathingRequestGeneric<CombatPathingGoalPolicyRetreat,CombatPathingSearchPolicyStandard>*)
[RSP+378] 0x1B93240EB00 (void*)
[RSP+380] 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFE (size_t) [uint: 18446744073709551614 int: -2]
[RSP+388] 0x1B777CFE4E8 (char*) "N"
[RSP+390] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+398] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+3A0] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+3A8] 0x1BA72208CC0 (PathingTaskData*)
[RSP+3B0] 0xFFFFFFFF (size_t) [4294967295]
[RSP+3B8] 0x8F756FF829 (void*)
[RSP+3C0] 0x7FF62CC0B858 (void* -> SkyrimSE.exe+114B858cmp byte ptr [rdi+0x88], 0x00)
[RSP+3C8] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+3D0] 0x1B952F73769 (size_t) [1895472510825]
[RSP+3D8] 0x1B7FDA40130 (void*)
[RSP+3E0] 0x1B70000004E (void*)
[RSP+3E8] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+3F0] 0x1B93240E080 (void*)
[RSP+3F8] 0x1B700000000 (char*) "Actx "
[RSP+400] 0x7FF8A9C851B3 (void* -> ntdll.dll+00551B3mov ebx, eax)
[RSP+408] 0x1B700000001 (char*) "ctx "
[RSP+410] 0x7FF8A74D497E (void* -> KERNELBASE.dll+003497Enop [rax+rax*1], eax)
[RSP+418] 0x1 (size_t) [1]
[RSP+420] 0x1B9325531A0 (void*)
[RSP+428] 0x1 (size_t) [1]
[RSP+430] 0x7FF8A74E54FD (void* -> KERNELBASE.dll+00454FDnop [rax+rax*1], eax)
[RSP+438] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+440] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+448] 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFE (size_t) [uint: 18446744073709551614 int: -2]
[RSP+450] 0x1BA00000001 (void*)
[RSP+458] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+460] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+468] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+470] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+478] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+480] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+488] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+490] 0x1B7FD91A8E0 (BSWin32TaskletGroupData*)
[RSP+498] 0x7FF62EB6B600 (BSWin32TaskletManager*)
[RSP+4A0] 0x1BA72208CC0 (PathingTaskData*)
[RSP+4A8] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+4B0] 0x7FF62C73594B (void* -> SkyrimSE.exe+0C7594Bcmp [rbx+0x08], r14b)
[RSP+4B8] 0x1BA72243100 (void*)
[RSP+4C0] 0x1B900000002 (void*)
[RSP+4C8] 0x1B93240EB00 (void*)
[RSP+4D0] 0x7FF62EB6B600 (BSWin32TaskletManager*)
[RSP+4D8] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+4E0] 0x7FF62C735A76 (void* -> SkyrimSE.exe+0C75A76mov rcx, rbx)
[RSP+4E8] 0x7FF62EB6B600 (BSWin32TaskletManager*)
[RSP+4F0] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+4F8] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+500] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+508] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+510] 0x7FF8A8F5257D (void* -> KERNEL32.DLL+001257Dmov ecx, eax)
[RSP+518] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+520] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+528] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+530] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+538] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+540] 0x7FF8A9C8AA58 (void* -> ntdll.dll+005AA58jmp 0x00007FF8A9C8AA79)
[RSP+548] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+550] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+558] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+560] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+568] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+570] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+578] 0xB963F00700000000 (size_t) [uint: 13358784832566460416 int: -5087959241143091200]
[RSP+580] 0x0 (size_t) [0]
[RSP+588] 0x4F0FFFFFB30 (size_t) [5433133628208]
[RSP+590] 0x7FF8A75FCD70 (void* -> KERNELBASE.dll+015CD70mov [rsp+0x10], rbx)
[RSP+598] 0x8F756FE500 (void*)
[RSP+5A0] 0xEE0000FFF03C787A (size_t) [uint: 17149708480274004090 int: -1297035593435547526]
[RSP+5A8] 0x7FF81E3C3D77 (void* -> nvngx_dlss.dll+21D3D77mov edi, 0x10200)
[RSP+5B0] 0x8F756FE500 (void*)
I can only confirm that the navmesh "looks" fine, that error-checking and pathing tests in the CK report no issues, and that I, for what it's worth, never had CTDs.
BTW, what's the mod? I might find the time to have a look at it and possibly get some ideas.
It's weird, I've used Navigator forever and never had an issue until this mod
The only thing I noticed is that the boss doesn't have its facegen files, but that used to cause only "black face" issues (at least in SSE 1.5.97, no idea whether they are still needed in AE.)
A simple test should give some answers.
Disable Navigator and try a few times, better if with a saved game in which you hadn't entered the cell with the new boss.
Then re-enable it, disable the boss mod and try again (maybe spawn something yourself to have a fight where the boss should have been, a bear or whatever.)
If the CTDs happen only with both mods enabled, they are obviously incompatible (for reasons I can't fathom.)
If you also have CTDs with just one enabled, that gives a clear indication of which mod is causing them.
Or at least it used to be, you never know with those daily engine "updates".