Who would believe such a small quest could spark such debate? For my part I usually save Saadia.These so called honor bound warriors, abuse every Redguard woman they come across. B) Based on real life, not every single Redguard can be honorable, just and true. A few could be bought, just like every other mercenary in the world. Even the great hero of the Reconquista El CId worked and fought beside Moorish rulers just as soon as work for Castile or Andalusia. Every High Elf can not be a smug, condescending, imperialistic ass. to expect every member of a race or country to behave according to some preconceived archetype is just naivety at its worst.I don't believe either of their stories in full, but I do know that these Redguards might be the dumbest I have ever encountered. So, I kill Kematu and his Keystone Al'Akir for the good of Hammerfell, all of Tamriel, and the general gene pool. Hopefully before they are able to breed.
For an Altmer who breaks the stereotypes, talk to Fasendil in the Rift Imperial Camp. He's the Legate there, and openly opposes the Thalmor. There's also Nurelion in Windhelm, the alchemist obsessed with the White Phial.
Ah, I see some guys literally take being a `whiteknight` to heart. You know being a whiteknight for women is acting as foolishly as the Redguards who kept thinking every black woman was the guilty one.
A true warrior does not allow himself to be foolishly influenced by anyone, especially a pretty girl that cries `victim`. He looks at the facts and goes with what seems closer to the truth. Many men have fallen foul of women who manipulate such guys around their little finger only to later find out she was lying all the way.
I have studied things about this quest and have found several problems with the Al'kir position. 1) The Great War ended 20 years ago, 2) The second Treaty of Stros M'kai was signed 15 years ago, so no present Dominion/Hammerfell conflict, animosity, but no conflict. 3) The quest writers mentioned on Reddit that Saadia is 29 years old. 4) Taneth is a Kingdom, not a province, just as Al'kir is also a kingdom. Hammerfell is made up of 10 kingdoms. Why not use Taneth warriors and in that case why not have a ROYAL writ against her? 5) With Kematu, if you have Saadia brought to the stables he uses a paralyze spell. Magic that effects the mind and body are considered off limits to Redguards, healing and destruction spells aren't that frowned upon though. 6) The scars on Saadia, how did they come to be? Could she had been attempted/or was sexually assaulted and fought back and killed her attacker? And he was a scion of a larger house?? That type of blood feud could be the source. (my conjecture) 7) A royal writ would avoid all of this cloak and dagger issues and could probably get the influence of the local Jarl on your side. Why break into the town? This speaks again of lacking official sanction and more of a blood feud. Nobles playing their stupid games again. (see Romeo and Juliet).
These are the points that I've been trying to make for years the issue is that there are idiots that will ignore the logic and be fooled by Kematu. Also there is the law of componding probability and Occom's Razor the former being the more assumptions an arguement makes the less likely it is true and the latter being that often enough the answer with the least assumptions is the best one. Given that Kematu's arguement is full of holes and is made after all his bandit goons are killed then its fairly obvious that he's making stuff up to save his skin. But yeah this is likely internal Redguard politics and both are using the Thalmor as masterminds to garner sympathy, and in this case Kematu is clearly in the wrong as he's the only person breaking Skyrim's laws here whereas Saadia is a law-abiding citizen, sure she may have lied about her identity but last I checked that wasn't a crime in Skyrim nor is she the only character who has hidden true parts of their identity consider Erandur who is a former priest of Vaermina turned worshiper of Mara he hides the fact he was part of the Cult in Dawnstar but is out to atone for his former membership by putting a stop to Vaermina's plans. Saadia is just trying to live a new life safe from harm; her lies are born out of survival instincts not out of malice if anything she's keeping people like Hulda and other Whiterun citizens safe from being threatened by the A'likr who are breaking laws by colaberating with bandits and embarking on a kidnapping plot which by the way is illegal you literally have quests to rescue kidnapped people in the game. Also if they are official why go about all this skullduggery and subversion, that's not the actions of a legitimate nation state its the actions of vigilanties and rogue regimes like China and North Korea where they hire people to kidnap escaped dissendents and drag them back to be murdered by the state.
A fool trusts a man they meet in a cave and whose likely making stuff up to save his own skin. Also a real warrior would not support kidnapping anyone that's dishonorable and the A'likr have no honor by working in the way they do
I like this idea and I'm glad I'm pleased to see I'm not the one who has thought about the lore inconsistencies in this quest. Personally, I suspect that when thsi quest was written the writers hadn't actually decided at that point when the Great War happened. Had it ended some 25 years go or just one year go or was it even ongoing in Hammerfell or had Hammerfell fallen and been occupied? As it stands the quest just doesn't make a lot of sense because not only are Iman and the Mercs inconsistent, but the cover stories they tell just... don't make sense even as lies. Oh well, I think your mod does about what can be done to rectify it.
No, it doesn't. It just changes the time it triggers.
Of course, the statement in the description that claimed that for most of human history, the earth was presumed to be flat is also incorrect. It has always been a rather unpopular opinion.
I'm down for whatever makes it more lore rich for the player making the decision. Choosing Saadia is choosing nothing but a pretty face. Things to note:
* The Al'Akir would never *NEVER* take a job from the Thalmor, or even Redguard nobles with Thalmor interests. They're mercs, yes, but they're honorbound redguard warriors and selective with their contracts. * If the Thalmor truly wanted Saadia, they'd walk right into Whiterun and take her. No If's, And's, or But's. There's not a thing Jarl Balgruff could do about it.
Interesting; So you are saying that Iman of Hammerfell MUST be guilty of treason?
Actually I never saw a single Thalmor in Whiterun .... looks like at least at the beginning of the game the Jarl hasn't let them in.
In the lore the Al'Akir may be honor bound .... in the game it seems not so much. In the game it looks like they would trample on the civil rights of any Redguard woman with or without a scar.
In terms of the betrayal it seems much more likely that a Hammerfell "higher up" betrayed Taneth and blamed someone convenient lower down just like my spin suggests.
Your statement:
"The Al'Akir would never *NEVER* take a job from the Thalmor, or even Redguard nobles with Thalmor interests. They're mercs, yes, but they're honorbound redguard warriors and selective with their contracts"
implies that all and every Al'Akir cannot possibly do other than this, which is as absurd in the game as it is in real life.
And yes I would prefer the OPTION to save a pretty face that is in front of me, than serve hired thugs and their masters that I haven't even met.
Last: This mod doesn't change the flow of the quest AT ALL. You can still turn her in whether you believe or disbelieve her, or not turn her in. I would never force the player into a course of action. You can even interpret the line of text I give the player as a lie used to convince her to trust you.
I made this mod very carefully and I invite you to play it.
No. There's more that makes no sense of Saadias story. She says she's fleeing the Thalmors wrath because she spoke up against them... In a Hammerfell that was so against the Thalmor that they broke out of the Empire. Why is she in Skyrim, where the Thalmor have almost free reins, instead of her native Hammerfell that is outright hostile to the Thalmor and no Thalmor can move without getting killed, if they're the one's hunting her? There is also the additional point that the Thalmor, should they want her dead, would utilize their own agents for that. While they could have trouble entering Whiterun (as Jarl Balgruuf isn't too positive to them), the Alik'r have no less problems with it. The Thalmor agents are also trained in assassionation and subterfuge, something the Alik'r Warriors are not.
While it would be possible for these Alik'r to be renegades, the chance of them taking employ with the Thalmor is at best ridiculous. Speculation that "someone higher up" betrayed Taneth and then choose to blame her also makes preciously little sense considering the way the war in Hammerfell went and how honourbound their society is (something that points to how rigid this honour system is, is shown in-game, with the Alik'r Prisoner in Whiterun Prisons, that says he's being abandoned because he let himself be captured).
People like to lift things such as consorting with bandits as proof of Kematu lying, but that makes sense. They can't come officially, because the Empire couldn't allow it. It'd risk the peace with the Thalmor, so the Alik'r have to come anonymously. The point of sending mercenaries for that is plausable deniability - IF they were caught wind of, the Hammerfell government could just deny any knowledge of it.
Personally, I think Saadia is a Thalmor spy. She betrayed Taneth to the Thalmor, and then had to flee, but the Thalmor could see use of having a spy in Whiterun, albeit one they didn't care much about. Used, but not given any protection whatsoever. The way she goes "After all this, I have to just pack up and leave?" in an annoyed tone - doesn't sound scared, but inconvenienced. More like a spy than a refugee.
KravisGile wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "No. There's more that makes no sense of Saadias story. She says she's fleeing the Thalmors wrath because she spoke up against them... In a Hammerfell that was so against the Thalmor that they broke out of the Empire. Why is she in Skyrim, where the Thalmor have almost free reins, instead of her native Hammerfell" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yes, that does make some sense. Why come to Skyrim? I would guess that there was a few attempts on her life in Hammerfell and she is getting as far away as possible to Skyrim where the Nords had some autonomy before King was killed. The game itself suggests this as the brave Al'kir warriors seem quite willing to kidnap ANY Redguard women with a scar on her face, and almost even those without. The game bends over backwards to show this scene over and over.
Anyway, in the context of the game it is impossible to verify anything.
I would think that if the Nobles of Hammerfell really had concrete evidence of Iman's guilt and treason they would contact the Jarl of Whiterun and officially ask him to have his guards search for and detain anyone meeting her description instead of sending Kematu there alone without a single document stating he is a representative of the will of Hammerfell.
That the Jarl wasn't contacted suggests that this action is not sanctioned by Hammerfell OR the Jarl knows and doesn't believe the evidence OR Hammerfell and Skyrim are on such bad terms that there is no contact.
So now for the real question: If she was really ONLY speaking out against the Thalmor why not go to your own people for protection?
The simple answer is that:
If somebody wants to protect you, MAYBE they can do that if they invest enough effort and you are willing to live confined in a defensible location.
If somebody wants you dead and not to picky about how it happens then you are usually quickly dead.
"You're under the illusion Skyrim has more autonomy against the Thalmor than Hammerfell?"
No I am under the illusion that Skyrim USED to have more autonomy than Hammerfell. Both you and I have no idea how long Iman has been in Whiterun. Skyrim seems to have semi autonomous Jarls even at the games start. They also worship their own God.
Ok OK.... I did my research like I should have, and educated myself ....
The whole thing makes no sense whatsoever.....
She openly states "The men who are looking for me, the Alik'r, they are assassins in the employ of the Aldmeri Dominion. They wish to exchange my blood for gold" (directly from the CK) which means the brutes at the Whiterun gate actually ARE the Al'Akir because she openly admits they are looking for her.
So we have that the Al'Akir are looking for her and the Wikis I found don't have much information about them except they come from the north of Hammerfell. Taneth is in the South closest to the Aldmeri Dominion.
The Crowns are in the north of Hammerfell and the Forebears are in the south. Taneth is in the south. Hammerfell was plagued by infighting between the Crowns and Forebears factions just before the Thalmor invaded in 4E 171. It seems that if Taneth fall it probably did so in the next year. So that pins the date of the alleged betrayal 4E 172.
In 4E 172, the Al'Akir are stated to be of from North of the desert and are probably Crowns. Taneth is in the south are are probably Forebears. The civil war is still on as it ends in 4E 180. So why would the Al'Akir know about their Forebear enemies to the South before the Thalmor attack. So in 4E171 the Thalmor invade and the City of Taneth falls shortly later.
The game Skyrim starts in 4E 201 thats thirty years later. Iman of Suda looks no older than 50 in the game so she would be 20 then. It is hard to imagine how the actions of a 20 year old could bring down a whole city, but who knows for sure.
So why would this 20 year old Iman living in Skyrim speak out against the Thalmor (Saaida: "I don't know for sure. I spoke out against the Aldmeri Dominion publicly; I suspect that's why these men were hired to hunt me down" ) so perhaps Saaida's comment refers to a more recent happening. Perhaps she has fled recently because she spoke out against the Thalmor recently, and there are houses in Hammerfell who covertly support the Dominion and they have hired the Al'Akir to capture her under false pretenses. It seems very unlikely that the Thalmor don't have their fingers in Hammerfell trying divide and conquer.
Kematu said "She sold the city out to the Aldmeri Dominion. Were it not for her betrayal, Taneth could have held its ground in the war" and later "The resistance against the Dominion is alive and well in Hammerfell, and they want justice." The war has been over for 20 years ... there is no resistance anymore. Hammerfell was unified and sovereign in 4E 180. Why would they start looking for her 30 years later or have they been searching for 30 years?
It is impossible for the players avatar to get any factual information except what Ketmatu says and what Iman says in the game. One or both may be lying. Kematu states the "The resistance against the Dominion is alive and well in Hammerfell, and they want justice" (directly from the ck) despite that the war has been over for 20 years. This probably means he is lying or there really is still a resistance, and resistance implies that the Thalmor still have considerable power in Hammerfell...... so Iman could get a contract on her life for speaking out against them.
So really it comes down to "Who are these Al'Akir and who do they support and how many questions do they ask before taking a contract?"
No Wiki has this information
So lets cut to the chase..... Why do you think she is guilty
To be fair, without mods she doesn't look that young either. For starters, her hair is beggining to get grey, so I could believe she is, at the very least, 38 to 40 (assuming she betrayed the city when she was 18 years old), if not actually older (but I wouldn't go up to 50). Besides the scars, she has some facial lines that known young characters, like Olfina Grey-mane, lack.
About Kematu's sentence about the resistance... frankly, I could believe that it was a f*#@ up from the team that made that quest. That or the lore team, but I'd soon believe that the quest team fucked it up than the lore team, in this case. Mainly because if not, it is quite stupid to say that, unless he is assuming that you haven't listen anything about the war (and the chances are actually quite good if you are talking about someone who hits first and ask questions later, but someone reasonable enough to ask questions and to wait and talk, it is too risky, not to mention that simply saying "We have driven the Dominion out and now the houses want justice" is just as convincing).
As for why I believe she is the bad guy here? Well, if we the war had ended 20 years ago, she is truly innocent and the al'kir are looking for her on behalf the thalmor (the last part is hard to believe at best, but let's assume it for this case), she would actually be safer in hammerfell, where the Thalmor presence wouldn't be tolerated, than in Skyrim. What's more, her family would have send for her. If she was framed, and at this point you are the only one she can trust, she doesn't have any reason to not say just that. "They framed me and now the Al'kir had been sent to silence me". Easy, isn't it? I wouldn't have any reason to suspect her either saying that or what she says in the game (it is actually more suspicious, seeing how there is an npc in Whiterun ranting about the Thalmor day and night, without the Thalmor even sending a discreet agent to... make him go away). On the other hand, let's go assuming that Kematu is the one telling the truth. Not only it does make sense that Saadia tries to convice you playing the poor lady in distrease and the thalmor card (chances are that your character is a nord that may be affiliated with the Stormcloaks, and even if it isn't, almost everyone in Skyrim hates the Thalmor, even other Altmers, so your character being affiliated with the thalmor is a very low chance, specially after having a hand on your sentence to death at the very beggining), but also the fact that he doesn't have any papers to prove that he is being sent by the nobles of hammerfell (everyone knows that Whiterun is, at that point, neutral in the conflict between the empire and the stormcloaks, but they have a solid imperial roots, so at best is a coin toss about them informing the thalmor than they are in Whiterun, and at worst they may find that a thalmor agent had been forced to stay in the city, so they would be telling the Thalmor "Hey, we are here, come and arrest us, so you can torture us and maybe get some interesting info about Hammerfell" ). And he follows up not killing Saadia, just capturing her.
Dunno, Kematu feels more thrustworthy than Saadia, her story is fishy as all hell. Not saying that I won't be wrong, just why I think she is lying.
Honestly, I wouldn't think the Thalmor care all that much about her and she is already neutralized by being a serving girl in Skyrim. Perhaps they would even enjoy that. Perhaps they want the Al'Akir to do their dirty work so she gets murdered by one of her own.Seems to me that they like that sort of activity.
As for Kematu's line .... Bethesda put it directly into the ck so it is canon .... And the wiki could be wrong ....
Either way I am happy to give the player the chance to give Iman a chance and not feel arbitrary about it.
Throwing in on the lore and why this mod does make sense, but only if you really need a reason to save Saadia other than keeping racial diversity in a tavern.
It's not surprising the Thalmor haven't come to Whiterun themselves. They are not front-line Aldmeri Dominion warriors. They're basically the NSA/GCHQ of the Altmer. When you see a patrol, it's never more than a couple of them and they are effectively just hunting civilians worshiping Daedra and Talos.
Spoiler:
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They also are interested in maintaining the civil war per the lore, found in the Embassy.
They do not participate in vanilla civil war battles and a Thalmor presence in Whiterun would force Ulfric to attack the hold, instead of respecting Balgruuf's neutral stance until the player joins the fight.The lack of Thalmor are partially why Ulfric insists Balgruuf is a "True Nord" when you first go to the Palace of Kings.
We know Hammerfell has been sovereign for two decades, but that's not long to the Altmer.The Altmer very likely have agents crawling all over the place, which would make the Alik'r assertion of resistance correct, but Hammerfell wouldn't want a full-scale war with the Dominion so soon after establishing sovereignty. There is an uneasy peace that would exist, and that could easily include justifying completing a contract against someone the Thalmor want. Honor is both a code for the victor and a justification for the defeated, and "This woman is required to pacify the Thalmor" would be considered honorable to a military leader or politician awaiting their moment.
It also makes sense from the Thalmor perspective. They don't leave loose ends. If a woman flees Hammerfell because she's done something to anger the Dominion and, being nobility, she is easily recognized there, she would absolutely thing Skyrim is a good place to hide.Nobody has an identity of note on a battlefield. It would also make sense as to why the Alik'r are given such a vague description by which to find Saadia; they probably can't tell a visual difference between other races. Racism does that.
Hi everyone! I have a lot of gameplay with Skyrim LE and now SE. I never give up Saadia/Iman. Why? Because of some words by the Alik'r guy at Whiterun doors just after the kill of Salokhnir. When you ask him why he want the woman and at the moment you don't know who she is, he answer you that that's not your business. They just pay for informations. For me it's the key point. Whoever send them these people are just merc and can be send by anyone, Thalmor's friends included. Keep in mind that as told before, that there was a civil war before the Dominion invasion between Crowns and Forebears. They put their problems under the rag the time to free their country but I think their rivalry had emerged after. Another point. Saadia/Iman identify them as Alik'r, yes. And they say they are Alik'r, they wears Alik'r clothes but there is not any more proof that they are true Alik'r than Saadia/Iman is guilty. Add to that their actions against redguards womens until you end the quest... They are not clean and have no proof of their target guilt. That's how I see the plot. Maybe I'm right, maybe not but my characters are Dovahkiin, no?
The one small wee item of information omitted in these comments is the fact that if you let Kematu take Iman / Saadia away for justice - an urn bearing her name appears in Whiterun's Hall of the Dead shortly after. This implies Kematu and his mob simply murder her and leave her body to be found. [ Ref: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Saadia ] So I like to save her. Which has advantages with certain (ahem) other mods...
Actually, that has been stated to be an engine limitation/oversight that makes an urn whenever any named NPC that lives in a city is disabled in the game, or something of the sort. Don't remember the details, but yeah.
Just saying "Resistance against the dominion" can mean "feelings for resistance" or in simpler words, "Hammerfell still hates the Aldmeri Dominion" which... might seem like a 'no s#*! sherlock,' for anyone that knows the lore, but for people that don't, it's a lot simpler than Kematu reciting all the details of the war in your face.
49 comments
Every High Elf can not be a smug, condescending, imperialistic ass. to expect every member of a race or country to behave according to some preconceived archetype is just naivety at its worst.I don't believe either of their stories in full, but I do know that these Redguards might be the dumbest I have ever encountered. So, I kill Kematu and his Keystone Al'Akir for the good of Hammerfell, all of Tamriel, and the general gene pool. Hopefully before they are able to breed.
Thanks for your comment ..... amusing and biting ...... ouch
A true warrior does not allow himself to be foolishly influenced by anyone, especially a pretty girl that cries `victim`. He looks at the facts and goes with what seems closer to the truth. Many men have fallen foul of women who manipulate such guys around their little finger only to later find out she was lying all the way.
I handed her over to the Warriors.
1) The Great War ended 20 years ago,
2) The second Treaty of Stros M'kai was signed 15 years ago, so no present Dominion/Hammerfell conflict, animosity, but no conflict.
3) The quest writers mentioned on Reddit that Saadia is 29 years old.
4) Taneth is a Kingdom, not a province, just as Al'kir is also a kingdom. Hammerfell is made up of 10 kingdoms. Why not use Taneth warriors and in that case why not have a ROYAL writ against her?
5) With Kematu, if you have Saadia brought to the stables he uses a paralyze spell. Magic that effects the mind and body are considered off limits to Redguards, healing and destruction spells aren't that frowned upon though.
6) The scars on Saadia, how did they come to be? Could she had been attempted/or was sexually assaulted and fought back and killed her attacker? And he was a scion of a larger house?? That type of blood feud could be the source. (my conjecture)
7) A royal writ would avoid all of this cloak and dagger issues and could probably get the influence of the local Jarl on your side. Why break into the town? This speaks again of lacking official sanction and more of a blood feud. Nobles playing their stupid games again. (see Romeo and Juliet).
Also if they are official why go about all this skullduggery and subversion, that's not the actions of a legitimate nation state its the actions of vigilanties and rogue regimes like China and North Korea where they hire people to kidnap escaped dissendents and drag them back to be murdered by the state.
Of course, the statement in the description that claimed that for most of human history, the earth was presumed to be flat is also incorrect. It has always been a rather unpopular opinion.
Uhh what? I don't remember that.
Being a real life Redguard I know I`m right!
* The Al'Akir would never *NEVER* take a job from the Thalmor, or even Redguard nobles with Thalmor interests. They're mercs, yes, but they're honorbound redguard warriors and selective with their contracts.
* If the Thalmor truly wanted Saadia, they'd walk right into Whiterun and take her. No If's, And's, or But's. There's not a thing Jarl Balgruff could do about it.
Actually I never saw a single Thalmor in Whiterun .... looks like at least at the beginning of the game the Jarl hasn't let them in.
In the lore the Al'Akir may be honor bound .... in the game it seems not so much. In the game it looks like they would trample on the civil rights of any Redguard woman with or without a scar.
In terms of the betrayal it seems much more likely that a Hammerfell "higher up" betrayed Taneth and blamed someone convenient lower down just like my spin suggests.
Your statement:
"The Al'Akir would never *NEVER* take a job from the Thalmor, or even Redguard nobles with Thalmor interests. They're mercs, yes, but they're honorbound redguard warriors and selective with their contracts"
implies that all and every Al'Akir cannot possibly do other than this, which is as absurd in the game as it is in real life.
And yes I would prefer the OPTION to save a pretty face that is in front of me, than serve hired thugs and their masters that I haven't even met.
Last: This mod doesn't change the flow of the quest AT ALL. You can still turn her in whether you believe or disbelieve her, or not turn her in. I would never force the player into a course of action. You can even interpret the line of text I give the player as a lie used to convince her to trust you.
I made this mod very carefully and I invite you to play it.
While it would be possible for these Alik'r to be renegades, the chance of them taking employ with the Thalmor is at best ridiculous. Speculation that "someone higher up" betrayed Taneth and then choose to blame her also makes preciously little sense considering the way the war in Hammerfell went and how honourbound their society is (something that points to how rigid this honour system is, is shown in-game, with the Alik'r Prisoner in Whiterun Prisons, that says he's being abandoned because he let himself be captured).
People like to lift things such as consorting with bandits as proof of Kematu lying, but that makes sense. They can't come officially, because the Empire couldn't allow it. It'd risk the peace with the Thalmor, so the Alik'r have to come anonymously. The point of sending mercenaries for that is plausable deniability - IF they were caught wind of, the Hammerfell government could just deny any knowledge of it.
Personally, I think Saadia is a Thalmor spy. She betrayed Taneth to the Thalmor, and then had to flee, but the Thalmor could see use of having a spy in Whiterun, albeit one they didn't care much about. Used, but not given any protection whatsoever. The way she goes "After all this, I have to just pack up and leave?" in an annoyed tone - doesn't sound scared, but inconvenienced. More like a spy than a refugee.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"No. There's more that makes no sense of Saadias story. She says she's fleeing the Thalmors wrath because she spoke up against them... In a Hammerfell that was so against the Thalmor that they broke out of the Empire. Why is she in Skyrim, where the Thalmor have almost free reins, instead of her native Hammerfell"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yes, that does make some sense. Why come to Skyrim? I would guess that there was a few attempts on her life in Hammerfell and she is getting as far away as possible to Skyrim where the Nords had some autonomy before King was killed. The game itself suggests this as the brave Al'kir warriors seem quite willing to kidnap ANY Redguard women with a scar on her face, and almost even those without. The game bends over backwards to show this scene over and over.
Anyway, in the context of the game it is impossible to verify anything.
I would think that if the Nobles of Hammerfell really had concrete evidence of Iman's guilt and treason they would contact the Jarl of Whiterun and officially ask him to have his guards search for and detain anyone meeting her description instead of sending Kematu there alone without a single document stating he is a representative of the will of Hammerfell.
That the Jarl wasn't contacted suggests that this action is not sanctioned by Hammerfell OR the Jarl knows and doesn't believe the evidence OR Hammerfell and Skyrim are on such bad terms that there is no contact.
So now for the real question: If she was really ONLY speaking out against the Thalmor why not go to your own people for protection?
The simple answer is that:
If somebody wants to protect you, MAYBE they can do that if they invest enough effort and you are willing to live confined in a defensible location.
If somebody wants you dead and not to picky about how it happens then you are usually quickly dead.
"You're under the illusion Skyrim has more autonomy against the Thalmor than Hammerfell?"
No I am under the illusion that Skyrim USED to have more autonomy than Hammerfell. Both you and I have no idea how long Iman has been in Whiterun. Skyrim seems to have semi autonomous Jarls even at the games start. They also worship their own God.
The whole thing makes no sense whatsoever.....
She openly states "The men who are looking for me, the Alik'r, they are assassins in the employ of the Aldmeri Dominion. They wish to exchange my blood for gold" (directly from the CK) which means the brutes at the Whiterun gate actually ARE the Al'Akir because she openly admits they are looking for her.
So we have that the Al'Akir are looking for her and the Wikis I found don't have much information about them except they come from the north of Hammerfell. Taneth is in the South closest to the Aldmeri Dominion.
The Crowns are in the north of Hammerfell and the Forebears are in the south. Taneth is in the south. Hammerfell was plagued by infighting between the Crowns and Forebears factions just before the Thalmor invaded in 4E 171. It seems that if Taneth fall it probably did so in the next year. So that pins the date of the alleged betrayal 4E 172.
In 4E 172, the Al'Akir are stated to be of from North of the desert and are probably Crowns. Taneth is in the south are are probably Forebears. The civil war is still on as it ends in 4E 180. So why would the Al'Akir know about their Forebear enemies to the South before the Thalmor attack. So in 4E171 the Thalmor invade and the City of Taneth falls shortly later.
The game Skyrim starts in 4E 201 thats thirty years later. Iman of Suda looks no older than 50 in the game so she would be 20 then. It is hard to imagine how the actions of a 20 year old could bring down a whole city, but who knows for sure.
So why would this 20 year old Iman living in Skyrim speak out against the Thalmor (Saaida: "I don't know for sure. I spoke out against the Aldmeri Dominion publicly; I suspect that's why these men were hired to hunt me down" ) so perhaps Saaida's comment refers to a more recent happening. Perhaps she has fled recently because she spoke out against the Thalmor recently, and there are houses in Hammerfell who covertly support the Dominion and they have hired the Al'Akir to capture her under false pretenses. It seems very unlikely that the Thalmor don't have their fingers in Hammerfell trying divide and conquer.
Kematu said "She sold the city out to the Aldmeri Dominion. Were it not for her betrayal, Taneth could have held its ground in the war" and later "The resistance against the Dominion is alive and well in Hammerfell, and they want justice." The war has been over for 20 years ... there is no resistance anymore. Hammerfell was unified and sovereign in 4E 180. Why would they start looking for her 30 years later or have they been searching for 30 years?
It is impossible for the players avatar to get any factual information except what Ketmatu says and what Iman says in the game. One or both may be lying. Kematu states the "The resistance against the Dominion is alive and well in Hammerfell, and they want justice" (directly from the ck) despite that the war has been over for 20 years. This probably means he is lying or there really is still a resistance, and resistance implies that the Thalmor still have considerable power in Hammerfell...... so Iman could get a contract on her life for speaking out against them.
So really it comes down to "Who are these Al'Akir and who do they support and how many questions do they ask before taking a contract?"
No Wiki has this information
So lets cut to the chase..... Why do you think she is guilty
About Kematu's sentence about the resistance... frankly, I could believe that it was a f*#@ up from the team that made that quest. That or the lore team, but I'd soon believe that the quest team fucked it up than the lore team, in this case. Mainly because if not, it is quite stupid to say that, unless he is assuming that you haven't listen anything about the war (and the chances are actually quite good if you are talking about someone who hits first and ask questions later, but someone reasonable enough to ask questions and to wait and talk, it is too risky, not to mention that simply saying "We have driven the Dominion out and now the houses want justice" is just as convincing).
As for why I believe she is the bad guy here? Well, if we the war had ended 20 years ago, she is truly innocent and the al'kir are looking for her on behalf the thalmor (the last part is hard to believe at best, but let's assume it for this case), she would actually be safer in hammerfell, where the Thalmor presence wouldn't be tolerated, than in Skyrim. What's more, her family would have send for her. If she was framed, and at this point you are the only one she can trust, she doesn't have any reason to not say just that. "They framed me and now the Al'kir had been sent to silence me". Easy, isn't it? I wouldn't have any reason to suspect her either saying that or what she says in the game (it is actually more suspicious, seeing how there is an npc in Whiterun ranting about the Thalmor day and night, without the Thalmor even sending a discreet agent to... make him go away). On the other hand, let's go assuming that Kematu is the one telling the truth. Not only it does make sense that Saadia tries to convice you playing the poor lady in distrease and the thalmor card (chances are that your character is a nord that may be affiliated with the Stormcloaks, and even if it isn't, almost everyone in Skyrim hates the Thalmor, even other Altmers, so your character being affiliated with the thalmor is a very low chance, specially after having a hand on your sentence to death at the very beggining), but also the fact that he doesn't have any papers to prove that he is being sent by the nobles of hammerfell (everyone knows that Whiterun is, at that point, neutral in the conflict between the empire and the stormcloaks, but they have a solid imperial roots, so at best is a coin toss about them informing the thalmor than they are in Whiterun, and at worst they may find that a thalmor agent had been forced to stay in the city, so they would be telling the Thalmor "Hey, we are here, come and arrest us, so you can torture us and maybe get some interesting info about Hammerfell" ). And he follows up not killing Saadia, just capturing her.
Dunno, Kematu feels more thrustworthy than Saadia, her story is fishy as all hell. Not saying that I won't be wrong, just why I think she is lying.
Honestly, I wouldn't think the Thalmor care all that much about her and she is already neutralized by being a serving girl in Skyrim. Perhaps they would even enjoy that. Perhaps they want the Al'Akir to do their dirty work so she gets murdered by one of her own.Seems to me that they like that sort of activity.
As for Kematu's line .... Bethesda put it directly into the ck so it is canon .... And the wiki could be wrong ....
Either way I am happy to give the player the chance to give Iman a chance and not feel arbitrary about it.
It's not surprising the Thalmor haven't come to Whiterun themselves. They are not front-line Aldmeri Dominion warriors. They're basically the NSA/GCHQ of the Altmer. When you see a patrol, it's never more than a couple of them and they are effectively just hunting civilians worshiping Daedra and Talos.
We know Hammerfell has been sovereign for two decades, but that's not long to the Altmer.The Altmer very likely have agents crawling all over the place, which would make the Alik'r assertion of resistance correct, but Hammerfell wouldn't want a full-scale war with the Dominion so soon after establishing sovereignty. There is an uneasy peace that would exist, and that could easily include justifying completing a contract against someone the Thalmor want. Honor is both a code for the victor and a justification for the defeated, and "This woman is required to pacify the Thalmor" would be considered honorable to a military leader or politician awaiting their moment.
It also makes sense from the Thalmor perspective. They don't leave loose ends. If a woman flees Hammerfell because she's done something to anger the Dominion and, being nobility, she is easily recognized there, she would absolutely thing Skyrim is a good place to hide.Nobody has an identity of note on a battlefield. It would also make sense as to why the Alik'r are given such a vague description by which to find Saadia; they probably can't tell a visual difference between other races. Racism does that.
I have a lot of gameplay with Skyrim LE and now SE. I never give up Saadia/Iman.
Why?
Because of some words by the Alik'r guy at Whiterun doors just after the kill of Salokhnir. When you ask him why he want the woman and at the moment you don't know who she is, he answer you that that's not your business. They just pay for informations.
For me it's the key point. Whoever send them these people are just merc and can be send by anyone, Thalmor's friends included.
Keep in mind that as told before, that there was a civil war before the Dominion invasion between Crowns and Forebears. They put their problems under the rag the time to free their country but I think their rivalry had emerged after.
Another point. Saadia/Iman identify them as Alik'r, yes. And they say they are Alik'r, they wears Alik'r clothes but there is not any more proof that they are true Alik'r than Saadia/Iman is guilty.
Add to that their actions against redguards womens until you end the quest...
They are not clean and have no proof of their target guilt.
That's how I see the plot. Maybe I'm right, maybe not but my characters are Dovahkiin, no?
So I like to save her. Which has advantages with certain (ahem) other mods...
"Resistance against the dominion" can mean "feelings for resistance" or in simpler words, "Hammerfell still hates the Aldmeri Dominion" which... might seem like a 'no s#*! sherlock,' for anyone that knows the lore, but for people that don't, it's a lot simpler than Kematu reciting all the details of the war in your face.