Are you using my old patches? If a mod changes the position of object, my patch probably change it back to the original location of the patch. This may cause troubles (clipping dummy, floating archer target etc.) I didn't update my patches since use Base Object Swapper by powerofthree for an universal solution. With this, all dummies/targets will swapped at their final location/rotation of the last mod which defined those.
I hope this answered your question, and sorry I took so long for an answer, I'm quite inactive on Nexus and I didn't saw the new post.
You say "with this mod you don't need multiple .esp files, just one .ini file". Does that mean we should remove the TrainAndStudy.esp file from the load order? Also, I'm using Requiem and the respective patch, should stay? (I guess so since that patch only changes the experience gain rate)
You also mention a FOMOD-installer, but I didn't get it to pop up using Vortex.
Base Object Swapper just change the objects from vanilla to modded objects. You still need the TrainAndStudy.esp because there is the activator defined. The Requiem patch overrides a script and chance an entry of the base object. So still need that patch to work correctly with Requiem.
The FOMOD-Installer was used for the old version. It just contains a .ini for Base Object Swapper so you just install it normaly as a mod I wasn't clear about it. I guess I have to improve my description a bit.
Dumb question. Would I be able to remove the Cell, Location, and Worldspace edits via xEdit from the original esp since this dynamically edits the targets and dummies, or are those still needed?
It should work. When removing the replaced objects Base Object Replacer will swap them too. You still need the base object, scripts, message entries etc. from the esp.
The mods are compatible. Train and Study uses training dummies and archery targets to improve your skill level (e.g. onehanded, archery, destruction) and Immersive Spell learning uses time to learn specific spells. So as an example you can spent 4 hours to learn the Fire Bolt spell and then you go to a dummy with Flames (you already learned) equipped to improve destruction. I'm not sure what you want to improve the immersion or compatibility but I didn't use Immersive Spell Learning yet.
I noticed a few training dummy incompabilities. I don't know if this is the most appropriate place to drop this but here we go anyway:
Capital Whiterun Expansion - a training dummy behind Jorrvaskr overlaps with item changes made by Capital Whiterun Expansion Capital Windhelm Expansion - the training dummy in front of the Palace of Kings (newly added) cannot be used for training. There are probably more of those (for example in the arena training room). Cities of the North Morthal - a floating training dummy next to the new barracks (this one is probably the most annoying) Cities of the North Falkreath - overlapping training dummies in the barracks (not really sure about that one anymore, need to check again some time)
I think the best solution to all those city overhauls out there may be by using the base object swapper to exchange all training dummies with modded versions. But it's not like I have a clue whether that is even possible...........
I think it depends on the loadorder. If you place the patch after CWE CotN etc. you override deleted/moved dummies. The problem is that you need a final patch after you finish your list if you want the functionality for all dummies. The best option is to make a SEEdit script to automate this progress but i have no idea how to make it. You can also try to place my patches before the conflicting mods but you may have some not working dummies then. I'll try to create that SSEdit script again when I have more time.
You are right. My load order is wrong, the patch loads afer the CWE and CotN Morthal. Should have reordered it from the start. Will do that now.
I've also taken a look at Base Object Swapper. Looks actually very easy to set up. If it's enough to just swap out the dummies with the ones from Train and Study to make it work then this would probably even make any future patches unnecessary. It's as simple as filling out an ini file. Although I'm still a bit confused about the entries themselves.
Edit: it actually works. Super easy. All that's left is to delete the cell changes from the original TrainAndStudy.esp
Okay, some dummies in Capital Windhelm Expansion could not be used for training. The reason is that I didn't figure out all base objects that need to be swapped. Using the help command in the console lists more objects than the 4 I changed out. But I can't continue without the names or IDs. Maybe you want to finish the job. It's probably faster than working on an xEdit script and making new patches in the future.
Here's what I did: 1) I installed the mod Base Object Swapper 2) I made a new textfile called TrainAndStudy_SWAP.ini 3) The content of the file was the following:
The names on the left side are the objects to be swapped out. Those are defined in Skyrim.esm. Behind the '|' character are the objects from the TrainAndStudy mod that will replace these objects. Maybe there's a better way to go about this but it worked. 4) The ini file needs to end up in the Data folder (I zipped it and installed it via my mod manager). 5) Upon starting Skyrim the defined objects are now replaced and can be used for training. (optional) 6) Since the original TrainAndStudy.esp changes some dummies by hand these entries should be removed from the esp for improved compability
I won't complete this task because I lack the knowledge to do so and because I'm very sleepy right now. I'd be happy if you would take over but it's also okay if you don't. My crappy experiment works well enough for me.
Update: ----------- I decided to look up the remaining dummies and now every dummy I have run across seems to work (even without the patch collection). The list should be mostly complete. As a bonus the snow shader is also applied to snowy archery targets now (=> not lost during the replacement). It might be better to use the [References] section of the ini file instead of the [Forms] section as I did to carry over changes made by USSEP (I think that's why most people use it) but frankly I can't be bothered to play around anymore. What important changes could USSEP possibly have made to training dummies anyway...
Here is the updated content of the file for anyone who cares:
Wow, I'm impressed. I'll try it myself and start to make an update asap. If it works well, I'll release an update with the automatic patcher. Thanks for your experiments.
No problem. Now I can at least give something back for once.
And thanks for uploading this solution if you find it useful!
Edit: I just found a special training dummy added by CWE that is not covered by my list but there are plenty other training dummies around it.
And more importantly: ArcheryTargetTripod should probably removed from the list. Because it's just the base of an archery target without the straw part. It should not be possible to use it for training. When BOS swaps it out with an actual training target it may face in an awkward direction because it was never meant to be used.
Hi. I now it's been a while but I didn't found the time to add the .ini file as a download and to update the mod page. Again thanks for create and test it. I gave you credits in the description.
You are wonderful and amazing, I've been having a beast of a time trying to decide between this and The Scarlett but after learning about Train and Study It was about to be hard to further sway me toward The Sea Dragon where I had full control over my crew.
Looks like he removed the training targets. That means you will not longer need the patch. If I'm wrong and you find a practice dummy or archery target, write me the id of them.
You are a lifesaver :) do you know how to tweak the original mod's inner mechanics? I am struggling very hard on the matter of fatigue taking too many hours of sleep to fully recover...
I'm not 100 percent sure but I think it's in the code of the script. The mod replaces the static objects (like tables) from the targets and dummies with activator objects (like levers or pillars). That activator object triggers a script for the UI and the effects. You can edit the scrips in the source folder (with the ending .psc) BUT you need to compile them into the .pex versions using the CreationKit. I never wrote scripts before so I'm not an expert. You can use this tutorial for basic knowledge about scripting: https://www.creationkit.com/index.php?title=Bethesda_Tutorial_Papyrus_Hello_World I can try to edit it myself tomorrow but I'm not sure if I have the permission to upload the modified version, because in the patches we only replace the vanilla objects from mods with the Train and Study version.
EDIT: You can try contacting the mod author maybe he can help you better then me.
35 comments
I didn't update my patches since use Base Object Swapper by powerofthree for an universal solution. With this, all dummies/targets will swapped at their final location/rotation of the last mod which defined those.
I hope this answered your question, and sorry I took so long for an answer, I'm quite inactive on Nexus and I didn't saw the new post.
You also mention a FOMOD-installer, but I didn't get it to pop up using Vortex.
The FOMOD-Installer was used for the old version. It just contains a .ini for Base Object Swapper so you just install it normaly as a mod I wasn't clear about it. I guess I have to improve my description a bit.
Thanks for the clarification, endorsed
Thank you for the response and thank you for making such an amazing addon!
I'm not sure what you want to improve the immersion or compatibility but I didn't use Immersive Spell Learning yet.
Capital Whiterun Expansion - a training dummy behind Jorrvaskr overlaps with item changes made by Capital Whiterun Expansion
Capital Windhelm Expansion - the training dummy in front of the Palace of Kings (newly added) cannot be used for training. There are probably more of those (for example in the arena training room).
Cities of the North Morthal - a floating training dummy next to the new barracks (this one is probably the most annoying)
Cities of the North Falkreath - overlapping training dummies in the barracks (not really sure about that one anymore, need to check again some time)
I think the best solution to all those city overhauls out there may be by using the base object swapper to exchange all training dummies with modded versions. But it's not like I have a clue whether that is even possible...........
You can also try to place my patches before the conflicting mods but you may have some not working dummies then.
I'll try to create that SSEdit script again when I have more time.
I've also taken a look at Base Object Swapper. Looks actually very easy to set up. If it's enough to just swap out the dummies with the ones from Train and Study to make it work then this would probably even make any future patches unnecessary. It's as simple as filling out an ini file. Although I'm still a bit confused about the entries themselves.
Edit: it actually works. Super easy. All that's left is to delete the cell changes from the original TrainAndStudy.esp
Here's what I did:
1) I installed the mod Base Object Swapper
2) I made a new textfile called TrainAndStudy_SWAP.ini
3) The content of the file was the following:
[Forms]
PracticeDummy01|_TS_CombatDummy01
PracticeDummy02|_TS_CombatDummy02
PracticeDummy03|_TS_CombatDummy03
ArcheryTarget|_TS_ArcheryTarget
The names on the left side are the objects to be swapped out. Those are defined in Skyrim.esm. Behind the '|' character are the objects from the TrainAndStudy mod that will replace these objects.
Maybe there's a better way to go about this but it worked.
4) The ini file needs to end up in the Data folder (I zipped it and installed it via my mod manager).
5) Upon starting Skyrim the defined objects are now replaced and can be used for training.
(optional) 6) Since the original TrainAndStudy.esp changes some dummies by hand these entries should be removed from the esp for improved compability
I won't complete this task because I lack the knowledge to do so and because I'm very sleepy right now. I'd be happy if you would take over but it's also okay if you don't. My crappy experiment works well enough for me.
Update:
-----------
I decided to look up the remaining dummies and now every dummy I have run across seems to work (even without the patch collection). The list should be mostly complete. As a bonus the snow shader is also applied to snowy archery targets now (=> not lost during the replacement). It might be better to use the [References] section of the ini file instead of the [Forms] section as I did to carry over changes made by USSEP (I think that's why most people use it) but frankly I can't be bothered to play around anymore. What important changes could USSEP possibly have made to training dummies anyway...
Here is the updated content of the file for anyone who cares:
[Forms]
PracticeDummy01|_TS_CombatDummy01
PracticeDummy02|_TS_CombatDummy02
PracticeDummy03|_TS_CombatDummy03
CombatDummy01|_TS_CombatDummy01
CombatDummy02|_TS_CombatDummy02
CombatDummy03|_TS_CombatDummy03
ArcheryTarget|_TS_ArcheryTarget
ArcheryTargetSnow|_TS_ArcheryTarget|apply_material_shader
ArcheryTargetTripod|_TS_ArcheryTarget
DLC2ArcheryTarget_Ash|_TS_ArcheryTarget|apply_material_shader
Thanks for your experiments.
And thanks for uploading this solution if you find it useful!
Edit:
I just found a special training dummy added by CWE that is not covered by my list but there are plenty other training dummies around it.
And more importantly:
ArcheryTargetTripod should probably removed from the list. Because it's just the base of an archery target without the straw part. It should not be possible to use it for training. When BOS swaps it out with an actual training target it may face in an awkward direction because it was never meant to be used.
Very very much appreciated!
You can use this tutorial for basic knowledge about scripting: https://www.creationkit.com/index.php?title=Bethesda_Tutorial_Papyrus_Hello_World
I can try to edit it myself tomorrow but I'm not sure if I have the permission to upload the modified version, because in the patches we only replace the vanilla objects from mods with the Train and Study version.
EDIT: You can try contacting the mod author maybe he can help you better then me.