Bug report: the AddPerkNerf function that adds the perks to skills that should receive halved experience is badly flawed. It should be a series of if statements, not if else. It also needs to check for < 10, not >11 when calculating. In its current state, it is actually penalizing the first skill above 11 that it finds alphabetically, which is very much not desired, and then not penalizing anything else.
For those wanting to fix this, replace the existing function with this and recompile the script:
Function AddPerkNerf() if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Alteration") < 10) PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfAlteration) endif if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Conjuration") < 10) PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfConjuration) endif if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Destruction") < 10) PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfDestruction) endif if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Illusion") < 10) PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfIllusion) endif if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Restoration") < 10) PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfRestoration) endif if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("HeavyArmor") < 10) PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfHeavyArmor) endif if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("LightArmor") < 10) PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfLightArmor) endif if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("OneHanded") < 10) PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfOneHanded) endif if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("TwoHanded") < 10) PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfTwoHanded) endif if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Marksman") < 10) PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfMarksman) endif if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Block") < 10) PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfBlock) endif if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Sneak") < 10) PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfSneak) endif if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Pickpocket") < 10) PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfPickpocket) endif if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Lockpicking") < 10) PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfLockpicking) endif if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Speechcraft") < 10) PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfSpeechcraft) endif if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Smithing") < 10) PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfSmithing) endif if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Enchanting") < 10) PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfEnchanting) endif if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Alchemy") < 10) PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfAlchemy) endif EndFunction
You will, of course, need a new character to see this change.
been using this for a while. Great concept. Makes a lot of sense. I wished there would be a version that resets all skill point to like say 5, or even 0, instead of 10 - for a more hardcore game
If you have any experience with the Creation Kit at all, this isn't too hard to do. The script source files are included as loose files with this mod, so they're easy to edit and recompile. First, copy the existing source files R88_RespecScript.psc and R88_RespecScript2.psc from Data\Scripts\Source to Data\Source\Scripts. Now, within the Creation Kit, open Gameplay -> Papyrus Script Manager and search for R88. For some reason, ruddy88 has duplicated the script rather than using the same script for both activators, so you'll need to edit both. Double clicking within the Papyrus Script Manager will open the script. If it doesn't pick a default program, just choose Notepad. The second function listed (ResetBase on line 148) is where your base skills are set to 10. Just swap these all to 5. Save the file, then within the Papyrus Script Manager right click and choose Compile.
No need to save or even load the ESP in the Creation Kit for these particular changes.
This looks great! Lightweight and simple, but adding roleplay value. Because the bonuses aren't listed yet on the main page, I'll list them here to help others. I'll start with races. Argonian: Alteration +10 Lockpicking +5 Light Armor +5
Other (Non-standard race detected): Alchemy +5 Enchanting +5 One Handed +5 Light Armor +5
One critique: I disagree with awarding some races four skills and others three. Yes, the total point value is the same, but because we are getting a permanent reduced leveling speed to skills that received no bonus, it means having a wider selection is really the best. Every race in the base game has enough to select from, so I recommend swapping this to four +5 bonuses for them all.
The classes that can be chosen are below. ARCHER: Archery +5 One Handed +5 Smithing +5 Restoration +5 Light Armor +5 Sneak +5 BARBARIAN: One Handed +5 Two Handed +5 Light Armor +5 Smithing +5 Archery +5 Block +5
CRUSADER: Block +5 Heavy Armor +5 One Handed +5 Two Handed +5 Destruction +5 Restoration +5
As with races, I think for classes you should stick to six +5 bonuses, so I'd change Healer and Bard. I'd drop Monk and add in Knight. Hand to Hand isn't a skill in Skyrim so if you're trying to stick to five pages of four choices, I'd have dropped Monk from Oblivion's list of 21 classes. I also really think the Pilgrim should be using one-handed, not two-handed. In Oblivion it receives a Blunt bonus and the picture shows him with a mace and shield. In Morrowind it's a short blades bonus and the picture shows a shortsword and shield.
Also, as a savings for yourself, just re-use the script rather than duplicating it. There's no need for two identical scripts to exist.
Light critiques aside, I love the idea and the implementation is unobtrusive and impactful. Good work!
Started a few characters with this and wanted to drop my two cents. I think the implementation is flawless.
I’ve developed a sort of muscle memory for the character creation of Morrowind and Daggerfall (Oblivion’s is hardly as seamless), and this seems every bit as straightforward and self-explanatory. I actually forgot it wasn’t vanilla last time I used it, which is the highest praise I can give any mod. Other character creation mods seem to call attention to themselves (eg “Welcome to ___!” At the opening text box), but this one sort of just blends in and disappears. Having it activate by the bed was brilliant.
I am conflicted on a couple of the design decisions. I’m the type to always make a custom character. This means I meticulously manage major and minor skills and attributes. Elder Scrolls has never been about premade classes to me, but rather forging a completely unique background.
on the other hand, limitation breeds the best role playing, and I like the limitation here. Skyrim only has 18 skills, after all; it’s anemic, so missing out on some at character creation is hardly a crisis. With these premade classes, you’re still very likely to get whatever you want.
So in the end, I like the simple approach. It adds much-needed limitation to a game that prides itself on unlimited freedom in character growth, but is really bland in terms of role playing as a result.
The only other thing I’d comment on is that I wish races and leveling rates were left untouched; other mods can handle those aspects and having a script means a lack of flexibility.
But it’s not too much of a problem. This mod is at the top of my list as an essential modification to the vanilla game.
Thanks for finally making a mod that just about nails it in terms of character creation.
This is probably the best praise I've gotten on a mod. Thanks heaps!
At the time I made it, I actually stumbled across the level multi values and couldn't find any mods that actually did this, so I decided it would make for a good inclusion especially being that it tied an extra boost/penalty to your decision rather than just the starting values. It wasn't until after publishing that I became aware of how many other mods affect level multis
Does anyone using this mod crash to desk top...soon after starting the game? For me...I get out of the LAL prison cell...start walking in Riverwood, and it crashes. Perhaps this is not the cause...just checking.
There are a handful of mods that alter levelling rate - usually slower. Experience Multipliers is probably the best of these, because it's not a set rate - you can pick from 0.1 to 10.0 x vanilla, and you can alter individual skill rates on top of that. I use CCO (and I haven't encountered the issues other people have), but I'll check this out next playthrough.
It would depend on how they implement their code. If they use a "get" function then a multiply then it should modify the skill rate based off the new rate I've set. If they however use a multiply based off a set amount (vanilla) then these multipliers will essentially overwrite anything my mod does. Both cases are fine and will still work together but just might be tricky figuring out what the final level rate would be. I'll look in to it
I'm about 9 hours in now, and I'm already L4, with EM set to 0.1. I think it's mostly because all my skills were set to 5, not 10 (is that a mistake the description?) - it doesn't take much to advance them. This one loads later, by the LOOT order, so it might be overriding EM too.
Youre overall level will increase faster at the beginning simply because you will level those skills faster due to being a lower level. I left it this way intentionally as we've all played through this game countless times, it helps get a small boost to certain skills at the start of the game just enough to start fleshing out a build. But they still level slower overall so you will slow down levelling skills pretty quickly since those lower starting skills also have a rate reduction.
As it stands, skills that start at 5 receive a skilll rate penalty. Skills that are above 5 at the start receive the regular skill rate, and your chosen major skill will receive a skill rate buff.
I am still unsure how EM works though and havent had a chance to test it out, so I cant be sure if it is overriding my skill rates or multiplying with them. With the rates youve described I am leaning towards it overwriting my changes entirely but Id have to look in to the mod to confirm that, I am currrently moving house though so havent had a heap of time to catch up on my mods
I just realized that I'm not using this mod - I'm using Classic Classes Reimagined. I'm an idiot. To be fair, though, I DID DL this one and try it out, but I think I got mixed up as to which one I wanted to keep.
(Note: I started playing Skyrim a few months ago after a long break - last time I played was Oldrim - so I'm still puttering around with mods and such. I'm only 10 hours in, so I think I'll drop that one and try this one again. Personally, I prefer to take 7-8 hours per level - I like to explore and wander around and feel like I *earned* those levels, instead of "Oh, I cleared a dungeon and levelled up again!". Hence why I set it so low. :)
Also, I discovered that Skyrim Uncapped also messes with skill rate advancement; you can set that in the ini file, but I don't know how it interacts with this or any other such mod.
Ah, I see. I started over with this mod installed last weekend, but I've mostly been exploring - Encounter Zones Unlocked + OBIS adds a lot of high-level bandits in fort ruins I could previously clear easily. I recently levelled up my major skill (my first level-up), and I went 40% of the way from L1 to L2. The same thing happened with a primary skill. I adjusted the sliders in EM to account for those, so I'll see how that works.
Can you do a version of this mod that just adds the class/race bonuses, without the XP scaling? I rather like the vanilla levelling system (I used Realistic Levelling in Oblivion), and I think other people would find it useful to apply their own levelling rate mods. I'd do it myself, but I don't know how to edit the scripts in Skyrim. :P
It looks like this mod and EM don't work together - I'm levelling about every 4 hours. That's okay, though... it's my first serious playthrough on Skyrim, so there's a bit of learning curve. I'm using OBIS and Encounter Zones Unlocked, and I keep running into things way above my level. :P Gaining levels a little faster is good.
After reaching L24, I'm still not sure whether or not they work together. It started off fast, then levelled off around L6 or so; at L20, I stopped levelling altogether until I increased the EM rate to 0.5, then it went back to "normal" (as in, around 6-7 hours/level). I'm starting a new game now, because I want to try out some new mods, but I'll keep this and EM - I like them both.
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For those wanting to fix this, replace the existing function with this and recompile the script:
Function AddPerkNerf()
if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Alteration") < 10)
PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfAlteration)
endif
if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Conjuration") < 10)
PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfConjuration)
endif
if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Destruction") < 10)
PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfDestruction)
endif
if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Illusion") < 10)
PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfIllusion)
endif
if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Restoration") < 10)
PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfRestoration)
endif
if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("HeavyArmor") < 10)
PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfHeavyArmor)
endif
if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("LightArmor") < 10)
PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfLightArmor)
endif
if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("OneHanded") < 10)
PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfOneHanded)
endif
if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("TwoHanded") < 10)
PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfTwoHanded)
endif
if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Marksman") < 10)
PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfMarksman)
endif
if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Block") < 10)
PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfBlock)
endif
if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Sneak") < 10)
PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfSneak)
endif
if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Pickpocket") < 10)
PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfPickpocket)
endif
if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Lockpicking") < 10)
PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfLockpicking)
endif
if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Speechcraft") < 10)
PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfSpeechcraft)
endif
if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Smithing") < 10)
PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfSmithing)
endif
if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Enchanting") < 10)
PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfEnchanting)
endif
if (PlayerRef.GetBaseActorValue("Alchemy") < 10)
PlayerRef.AddPerk(pkNerfAlchemy)
endif
EndFunction
You will, of course, need a new character to see this change.
I wished there would be a version that resets all skill point to like say 5, or even 0, instead of 10 - for a more hardcore game
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/59454?tab=description
No need to save or even load the ESP in the Creation Kit for these particular changes.
Argonian:
Alteration +10
Lockpicking +5
Light Armor +5
Breton:
Conjuration +10
Restoration +5
Speech +5
Dunmer:
Destruction +10
Illusion +5
Sneak +5
Altmer:
Conjuration +5
Alteration +5
Destruction +5
Restoration +5
Imperial:
Speech +10
Restoration +5
Block +5
Khajiit:
Sneak +5
Pickpocket +5
Lockpicking +5
OneHanded +5
Nord:
Two Handed +10
Smithing +5
Light Armor +5
Orsimer:
Heavy Armor +10
Smithing +5
One Handed +5
Redguard:
One Handed +10
Archery +5
Block +5
Bosmer:
Archery +10
Alchemy +5
Sneak +5
Other (Non-standard race detected):
Alchemy +5
Enchanting +5
One Handed +5
Light Armor +5
One critique: I disagree with awarding some races four skills and others three. Yes, the total point value is the same, but because we are getting a permanent reduced leveling speed to skills that received no bonus, it means having a wider selection is really the best. Every race in the base game has enough to select from, so I recommend swapping this to four +5 bonuses for them all.
The classes that can be chosen are below.
ARCHER:
Archery +5
One Handed +5
Smithing +5
Restoration +5
Light Armor +5
Sneak +5
BARBARIAN:
One Handed +5
Two Handed +5
Light Armor +5
Smithing +5
Archery +5
Block +5
CRUSADER:
Block +5
Heavy Armor +5
One Handed +5
Two Handed +5
Destruction +5
Restoration +5
THIEF:
Lockpicking +5
Pickpocket +5
Sneak +5
Speech +5
Alchemy +5
Light Armor +5
ROGUE:
Block +5
One Handed +5
Illusion +5
Alchemy +5
Light Armor +5
Speech +5
SCOUT:
Archery +5
Block +5
One Handed +5
Smithing +5
Alchemy +5
Light Armor +5
WARRIOR:
Heavy Armor +5
Two Handed +5
One Handed +5
Block +5
Smithing +5
Archery +5
BATTLEMAGE:
One Handed +5
Destruction +5
Alteration +5
Conjuration +5
Enchanting +5
Alchemy +5
HEALER:
Restoration +10
Alchemy +10
Alteration +5
Illusion +5
MAGE:
Alteration +5
Conjuration +5
Destruction +5
Illusion +5
Restoration +5
Enchanting +5
NIGHTBLADE:
Sneak +5
One Handed +5
Alteration +5
Destruction +5
Lockpicking +5
Illusion +5
SORCERER:
Heavy Armor +5
Alteration +5
Conjuration +5
Destruction +5
Enchanting +5
Restoration +5
SPELLSWORD:
Light Armor +5
One Handed +5
Conjuration +5
Destruction +5
Alteration +5
Restoration +5
WITCHHUNTER:
Archery +5
Conjuration +5
Destruction +5
Enchanting +5
Alchemy +5
Lockpicking +5
ACROBAT:
Archery +5
Block +5
One Handed +5
Lockpicking +5
Sneak +5
Speech +5
AGENT:
Archery +5
Illusion +5
Lockpicking +5
Pickpocket +5
Sneak +5
Speech +5
ASSASSIN:
Sneak +5
Lockpicking +5
Archery +5
One Handed +5
Alchemy +5
Light Armor +5
BARD:
Speech +10
Block +5
Illusion +5
Alchemy +5
One Handed +5
MONK:
Archery +5
Block +5
Alteration +5
Restoration +5
Lockpicking +5
Sneak +5
PILGRIM:
Speech +5
Block +5
Light Armor +5
Smithing +5
Lockpicking +5
Two Handed +5
As with races, I think for classes you should stick to six +5 bonuses, so I'd change Healer and Bard. I'd drop Monk and add in Knight. Hand to Hand isn't a skill in Skyrim so if you're trying to stick to five pages of four choices, I'd have dropped Monk from Oblivion's list of 21 classes. I also really think the Pilgrim should be using one-handed, not two-handed. In Oblivion it receives a Blunt bonus and the picture shows him with a mace and shield. In Morrowind it's a short blades bonus and the picture shows a shortsword and shield.
Also, as a savings for yourself, just re-use the script rather than duplicating it. There's no need for two identical scripts to exist.
Light critiques aside, I love the idea and the implementation is unobtrusive and impactful. Good work!
Is there a reason knight wasn't included? Or did I find a glitch? (If I did it might be an issue with my mod loadout.)
The only other thing I would add having somewhere you see what class you pick afterwards. Like something in the magic effects.
Great mod!
I’ve developed a sort of muscle memory for the character creation of Morrowind and Daggerfall (Oblivion’s is hardly as seamless), and this seems every bit as straightforward and self-explanatory. I actually forgot it wasn’t vanilla last time I used it, which is the highest praise I can give any mod. Other character creation mods seem to call attention to themselves (eg “Welcome to ___!” At the opening text box), but this one sort of just blends in and disappears. Having it activate by the bed was brilliant.
I am conflicted on a couple of the design decisions. I’m the type to always make a custom character. This means I meticulously manage major and minor skills and attributes. Elder Scrolls has never been about premade classes to me, but rather forging a completely unique background.
on the other hand, limitation breeds the best role playing, and I like the limitation here. Skyrim only has 18 skills, after all; it’s anemic, so missing out on some at character creation is hardly a crisis. With these premade classes, you’re still very likely to get whatever you want.
So in the end, I like the simple approach. It adds much-needed limitation to a game that prides itself on unlimited freedom in character growth, but is really bland in terms of role playing as a result.
The only other thing I’d comment on is that I wish races and leveling rates were left untouched; other mods can handle those aspects and having a script means a lack of flexibility.
But it’s not too much of a problem. This mod is at the top of my list as an essential modification to the vanilla game.
Thanks for finally making a mod that just about nails it in terms of character creation.
At the time I made it, I actually stumbled across the level multi values and couldn't find any mods that actually did this, so I decided it would make for a good inclusion especially being that it tied an extra boost/penalty to your decision rather than just the starting values. It wasn't until after publishing that I became aware of how many other mods affect level multis
If they use a "get" function then a multiply then it should modify the skill rate based off the new rate I've set. If they however use a multiply based off a set amount (vanilla) then these multipliers will essentially overwrite anything my mod does. Both cases are fine and will still work together but just might be tricky figuring out what the final level rate would be. I'll look in to it
As it stands, skills that start at 5 receive a skilll rate penalty. Skills that are above 5 at the start receive the regular skill rate, and your chosen major
skill will receive a skill rate buff.
I am still unsure how EM works though and havent had a chance to test it out, so I cant be sure if it is overriding my skill rates or multiplying with them. With the rates youve described I am leaning towards it overwriting my changes entirely but Id have to look in to the mod to confirm that, I am currrently moving house though so havent had a heap of time to catch up on my mods
(Note: I started playing Skyrim a few months ago after a long break - last time I played was Oldrim - so I'm still puttering around with mods and such. I'm only 10 hours in, so I think I'll drop that one and try this one again. Personally, I prefer to take 7-8 hours per level - I like to explore and wander around and feel like I *earned* those levels, instead of "Oh, I cleared a dungeon and levelled up again!". Hence why I set it so low. :)
Also, I discovered that Skyrim Uncapped also messes with skill rate advancement; you can set that in the ini file, but I don't know how it interacts with this or any other such mod.
Can you do a version of this mod that just adds the class/race bonuses, without the XP scaling? I rather like the vanilla levelling system (I used Realistic Levelling in Oblivion), and I think other people would find it useful to apply their own levelling rate mods. I'd do it myself, but I don't know how to edit the scripts in Skyrim. :P
It looks like this mod and EM don't work together - I'm levelling about every 4 hours. That's okay, though... it's my first serious playthrough on Skyrim, so there's a bit of learning curve. I'm using OBIS and Encounter Zones Unlocked, and I keep running into things way above my level. :P Gaining levels a little faster is good.