Hopefully this helps For those with no idea how to create or modify patches, here is a good tutorial from Phaedrathallassa : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olEbW1Eqbus
That's great, thank you, but i have 1 question i was trying to find answer to (the exact reason i ended up here): For example, i have overhaul A and B. Overhaul A does a 500 NPC, while overhaul B does 50 NPC but much better, that overhaul A, so i place B at the end of the load order. But there is issue: Few NPC from B was done worse, that the same few from A, so i want to keep their appearance from A, despite other 48 NPC from B being superb. If i simpy delete those 2 reference from B using SSEEdit, i get those npc's blackfaced no matter what.
Does this issue have anything to do with matters ur described or i've looking in the wrong place? Also watched the pinned video, thats didnt helped me unfortunately.
Upd: part of your own comment: "It is possible to not overwrite an NPC from another overhaul further up the chain, but that does require deleting facegen and records in the higher priority mods. For more info, you can go here: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/36840" Exactly what i am looking for)
Upd 2: Mixing faces from different overhauls without blackface bug requires creating patch (following the video), PLUS copying facegendata (nif and dds), in this new patch's folder or deleting its manually from folder of mod that you dont wish to use. I am sure there is better and faster way to do it somewhere, i stick with this solution right now)
So You have NPC overhauls A through to G, all of which have a version of Lydia.If I want to keep Lydia from mod B, that is being overwritten by all the Lydia's with a higher priority, in this case, mod C through to G, you need to delete the records in xedit, under npc tab, the 000A2C8E record for Lydia, that is from mod C and any other mods D, E, F, and G that overwrite the specific Lydia you want to keep from mod B. Then you have to go into the assets of the relevant mods (mods C to G) and delete the facegen files for that npc in both textures and meshes. So in this case, in each subsequent mod, C through to G, you have to delete A2C8E.nif in meshes\actors\character\facegendata\facegeom\skyrim.esm and A2C8E.dds in textures\actors\character\facegendata\facetint\skyrim.esm. After all that, Lydia from mod b should show ingame. Or as an alternative, and a far better method, you can forward the 1 record of Lydia from mod B into a new esp and make a new mod. You will then have to copy 1 texture and 1 mesh from mod B, the textures\actors\character\facegendata\facetint\skyrim.esm\A2C8E.dds as well as the meshes\actors\character\facegendata\facegeom\skyrim.esm\000A2C8E.nif into the appropriate folders for the new mod for Lydia. This new mod (mod H) is then placed after mod G.Either way will work. This of course will work with any npc or number of NPCs, so long as they are the last loaded record(s) and asset for the specific NPCs you are editing. Note: only the asset facegeom mesh and facetint texture is required. The esp from mod B, or the new mod you created, will tell the game where to find the rest of the assets. I hope this helps
sattyre, considering your experience in this area I wondered if you might have some insight regarding the blackface issue when it comes to Aela and overhaul mods for her appearance. This seems to have been an inherent issue from the very beginning. The problem arising from when she transforms back from werewolf form, whereas prior to that that point in the game, overhaul mods were working fine for her modified appearance. She's quite notorious for this so I suppose you are more than well aware of the issue.
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What's interesting about this question is I don't think it falls quite into the same bucket as the self-inflicted issues you mention in your article where load order of assets and plugins are not in sync... basically well illustrated by a graphic Pandorable recently posted in comments on one of their mods:
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And from everything I've heard about this Aela issue, I've not heard of anything that seems to indicate that we have a workable solution for this. The mod author for the Aela replacer I use (The Huntress Reborn) stated regarding their last release the hope that they'd fixed the issue but essentially said it was frustrating trying to deal with it and that they weren't confident the issue was resolved. Further they mentioned that other Aela replacer mods were dealing with the same problem and nothing I gathered from what was said implied that the modding community was any further along resolving the issue than we were on day one.
My question for you is, have you heard anything different? Do you have any input here? Do you know what is actually going on or have heard from any sources that have a good grasp of the issue and how to resolve it? Perhaps you even list the solution in your "Troubleshooting" section but I'm afraid I simply don't know enough about it yet to know when I'm actually looking at the answer.
It's actually the first I've heard of the issue. I've never experienced Aela getting black face after turning into a werewolf. It sounds like a skyrim version issue. I don't play much anymore, but if i do, i still use 1.5.97 since I don't care for any of the CC content. Yup Pan is dead on with the graphic, and it's an awesome illustration for the purpose. I've explained the issue with words, but you know what they say about pictures being worth a thousand words. Unfortunately I don't have an answer for you. That sounds like a coding issue where the werewolf is overwriting the human causing the black face when she's not a werewolf. My guess is the coding is still applying the werewolf textures when it shouldn't be, or something similiar.
Yeah, it definitely seems to me to be something relating to coding that wasn't designed to anticipate certain scenarios. And now you're stuck in no-man's land and it's baked into the save at this point.
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Kinda like an issue I experienced with Realistic Needs & Diseases. In that mod, you have the ability to refill your waterskins in bodies of water. If you're in 3rd person, a refill animation will play if you have the option selected. If you're in first person, the refill animation won't play. However, you can also refill while on horseback and what that does is the animation forces you up out of the saddle to float standing about a foot above the saddle. In this state, you can't do much more than move forward or backward. And I found no way of getting out of that without going to a prior save. These sort of characteristics seem to be quite typical of scenarios that are beyond the original design expectations of the coding. And it seems that often times, resolving such issues when you're constrained to looking at it from the outside in (like modders are since they're not at Bethesda), can prove to be thorny things to deal with.
Yup that's what I like about modding. There is so much to learn, you have to pick what's important to you overall and go with it. It's probably a little easier for the young folk who have grown up with it, but for us older folks it's just never been an intrinsic part of our lives until recently. Modding definitely isn't boring. I've seen the standing on the horse bug before with other scripts, and I think if you fast travel to an interior it would fix it, but it was a few years ago and I'm not 100% on it.
TLDR: Yes modding for Elder Scrolls games can be great, but it's in a perpetual state of transition. And lack of information or outdated information is frustrating and annoying for me, leading me to prefer doing less rather than more.
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For myself, I probably wouldn't put this quite the way you describe it regarding the Skyrim modding experience (though don't get me wrong, it certainly has a lot of potential for being interesting). From my perspective, Skyrim modding seems to be something that is perpetually in transition and any information is almost always sparse, non-existent, or out of date (i.e. many versions behind), or I just don't know where to look for finding the information (always a possibility). This state of things for me does not make me intrigued. Instead I'm just more frustrated and annoyed than anything else. I feel that in so many areas I'm blindly wandering around flailing at stuff so this is hardly inspiration to explore further.
This is not to say anything negative about any mods, tools, guides, etc. or anyone in this sphere. Gopher, Michael (Gamer Poets), Cal (Dirty Weasel), among others have excellent stuff. The STEP guide, the Reddit Skyrim Mods area (Thallassa), and other comprehensive guides (i.e. DarkLadyLexy's Legacy of the Dragonborn -- something I just recently discovered from your guide here... more on this later) are certainly useful resources. But pertaining to things like STEP, I look at that and think "I just want to do a few mods, I don't want to have to get a PhD in this and spend years before playing." Or things change and "now you shouldn't use uGridsToLoad" (just an example) and because I've not been keeping up on updates and don't want to have to continually do so I end up with a mod configuration that isn't ideal (or worse, is broken, crashes, corrupted game saves, etc.). And for comprehensive guides like DarkLadyLexy's, I think (in addition to what I think about STEP), "I don't necessarily want all those mods, I'm just nibbling around the edges with relatively few mods." And I also think "what if I want different mods from the guide or I don't want a lighting overhaul or I don't want an ENB or I want a different NPC overhaul to win for a specific NPC or what if I don't have as powerful of a system or even if I do have a powerful system I choose performance over 'prettiness'..." and while it seems likely these guides address this to a certain extent, it seems like going through the guide would be a long way around if you don't incorporate much of what is in the guide. So compared to these, I don't really get too deep into this. And frankly, while I'm sure there are plenty of people who do go down the rabbit hole, there are likely many others who just want simplicity and easy, quick implementation without the hassle and bother of continually keeping up with this. They just want to play the game with some mods and a minimum of fuss.
Now my attitude here is particularly and primarily effected (from the list of things I mentioned) by frustration at out-of-date or non-existent information. Having to brute force by trial and error how something works isn't actually fun as far as I'm concerned. And considering the vast extent of modding, it isn't really feasible to take this sort of approach with everything without knowing what you're doing. So I've mostly contented myself with keeping modding to a minimum. That said, from browsing that DarkLadyLexy's guide it seems to be something in a format that I like and it seems to be relatively up to date (though it does have the characteristic "here's these thousands of mods to use in this guide" syndrome). So seeing that, for the first time in a long time, I'm actually considering potentially looking into following that guide at some point in the future. I'm sure I'll know a lot more about this after than I do now (I'm probably at pre-school stage currently, and by the end of the guide it's probably college degree stage). So for this inspiration, I thank you for that reference to the DarkLadyLexy's guide. It could be just what I need in a format that works for me.
Modding is very definitely always changing and transitioning. I certainly agree that can be tiresome, but it's also improving and getting easier in many ways. There are a lot more tutorials then there used to be, the problem is filtering the good from the not so good.
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I built Lexy's Build a couple of times a number of years ago, and it was well worth it even though it's not the build for me. I learned a lot about modding from that build and then I decided to learn Elminster's "The Method" (Xedit) and used it on lexy's build and really refined what i knew about Xedit. That allowed me to remove any mod from Lexy's guide and I did. I removed some pretty big mods, like Caco and LOtD and a couple other biggies I don't currently recall, but it brought my modding skills to a new level. I now routinely have 500 to 600 active esps not including the 50 or more NPC overhauls I use and then thier patches on top, since they're all merged into one esp or the other merges i still use to declutter the plugin panel. All that to say Lexy's build is worth building simply to use as a learning tool even if you're not thrilled by many of the mods. I no longer use Lexy's build, though I suppose my own build is originally based from it. Truth be told, I never cared for her choices of NPCs either, but as I describe in this tutorial, that's an easy though time consuming fix. Don't get caught up in the more is better mentality. I've used a ton of mods I no longer use, simply because they don't really add to my enjoyment. (Most were simply eye candy or once and done.) Yeah it's nice to have different borders, but do they actually add to your enjoyment of the game? Weather mods are another thing everyone seems to want, but they take a fair chunk of resources I would rather use in other ways, and the vanilla weather isn't terrible. "Keep it simple. stupid" is an old saying that applies to modding too. Don't make it complicated. You don't have to use a ton of mods or a given system. I have a setup I use and enjoy when I want. I kept my original SSE install as a backup and still use skse 1.5.97 since I don't really care for the extra "free mods" DLCs and I won't be forced into updates I don't want. I avidly hate steam for it's forced updates, but I've since learned to simply copy my SSE directory and let steam update and then delete the update. I also never have steam online since I don't use online games.
My advice: Build Lexy's build and take what you want from it. There is nothing in that build that can't come out, and so long as you use some common sense, you don't have to use every mod or mod variant she uses. An example is she used to use the UNP body. I would simply substitute the CBBE one. Armor's are another easy substitute. NPC Overhauls are another. If you're half way familiar with Xedit, you can remove any mod or mods in her build. It can be a lot of work, but it's do-able. If you play FO4 I use the MOFAM build for that game, though it's very heavily modified. It's an exceptional build though, and similiar in stature to Lexy's Build. He also has a mofam for oblivion and FO3.
Good luck and don't feel pressured to use any particular system. Often, there is nothing wrong with vanilla.
Looking back on my Elder Scrolls modding history, I'd have to agree that it is improving and getting easier. I started using mods in Oblivion and greatly expanded this in Skyrim. But to somewhat rehash what I've said, in the entirety of that time I've never been inspired go very deeply. Not because I'm not that type of person or not interested, but in large part because of the frustrations I outlined earlier. It was either lack of information or information overload: STEP (or things like that). And for STEP, I was like "I don't want to eat that elephant, be it a bite at a time or any other way despite the fact that I'd know a lot more than I do now." In all this time, everything I've found has always failed on some level because of these reasons.
That is, till now. With the DarkLadyLexy's guide, it really does seem to be my speed, while it also appears to address many of my long standing concerns and gives me hope that I can reasonably take that journey without too much worry (i.e. won't be to the end of my lifetime to accomplish, isn't fraught with too many gaps of old or no info, etc.). I don't think I can adequately express how freeing, inspiring, exhilarating this is after so many years looking and wanting this sort of thing and feeling stymied for one reason or another. And then now to see something that gives hope that the original vision you had years and years ago may actually be achievable due to finding an authoritative source that coalesces it all in one place, in a form that is digestible. That's just great! I think the approach you advise is exactly right: using it as a learning tool, then later with this greatly increased understanding I can build things how I see fit. And this would allow me to accomplish new builds much more intelligently, quickly, correctly than what I've agonizingly and torturously cobbled together previously.
The rest below is just extra commentary...
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Example 1 How It's Better: EasyNPC I stopped playing Skyrim for the most part around the time Skyrim SE came out and Tannin got hired by nexus for Vortex and there was some uncertainty about MO's future. At the time, I'd just started to consider NPC overhaul mods but to my mind, in order to decide on what to choose I'd have to see each in game. So I embarked on a project of compiling comparison shots for all the NPCs from these various mods. Somewhat like this skin mod comparison on the nexus (though mine is not as well done and doesn't use tools that can help provide consistency like they've done). But I'm over 800 screenshots into it, with a spreadsheet that's almost 1,200 lines and I'm still not done taking screenshots, let alone started to compare and make choices. Yet, if I understand how EasyNPC works, you can have all your overhaul mods installed and it'll show you what each NPC looks like for each mod and you can easily choose from there without the need for a project like this (assuming of course, the rendering EasyNPC gives is faithful enough to what it'll actually really look like in-game and assuming you can see these renderings in something larger than just the thumbnail picture lineup one screenshot on the EasyNPC page shows).
Example 2 How It's Better: Troubleshooting Dark Face DarkLadyLexy's site references this video about troubleshooting dark face. It shows how to use some recent tools (dark face issue reporter) to deal with this in a relatively automated fashion and in a much more comprehensive way for the whole population of NPCs. This certainly beats dealing with this manually (which really isn't even feasible if you're dealing with a large number). That's definitely the way to do it. Indeed, in my experience, if you are manually handling things one at a time in a situation where you have thousands to deal with, there almost certainly is a better way and dealing with things by hand individually is only useful as a learning exercise. So this tool illustrates how those have seen this issue and indeed developed a better approach.
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Frankly, I'd be moving to use all this already, but as I mentioned I quit playing around the time SE came out. So coming back to it just within the last month or so, I'm still on LE. Back then, one reason for not switching was because the lack of SE mods and concerns that those I really didn't want to play without just wouldn't be there on SE. Since then, SE has surpassed LE in number of mods and my concern switched to the potential hassle of trying to find replacements for mods for those I didn't want to do without. But after briefly checking just now, it appears that most of my highly desired mods have been ported to SE or can be easily ported (open in CK, save...).
In fact, looks like you had a hand in something relating to the Infinite Gold For Merchants mod on the SE side. Great mod. Not that we need tons of gold in Skyrim since you'll be swimming in it by mid-game and beyond (in fact, with Alchemy (Salmon Roe, Nordic Barnacle, etc.), you could be swimming in it on day one). But I don't want to have to travel the entirety of Skyrim visiting every merchant in order to sell off my dungeon hauls (and I don't want to have to hassle with merchant inventory reset glitching either). And I frankly find it offensive that my 18k+ gold valued custom created potion gets truncated to 5-6k because of what I consider to be a draconian game design decision which certainly doesn't allow you the freedom to "play any way you want" (though apparently, it "just works"). Oblivion didn't have this issue. Merchants in there had unlimited gold, though there was a gold limit per transaction. But in that game, I don't recall running into an issue where an item value passed this limit--certainly not in any egregious way like in Skyrim.
So I guess my original plan to just continue to limp along in LE may soon change. With DarkLadyLexy's guide showing a feasible path forward in modding and most or all of my other objections resolved, SE may indeed be in my future (something I never thought I'd do). I will lament the loss of KenMOD - Lockpick Pro since that has been removed from the LE side of the nexus and isn't on SE as far as I can see. Too bad, since I hate the lockpick mini-game. In Oblivion it was even worse, but at least you could prioritize getting the Skeleton Key, could keep it permanently, and thus would be relieved of the lockpick hassle for the rest of the game. For Skyrim, at least lockpicking is minimally interesting or at worst less annoying than Oblivion. But if I do make the switch, I'll definitely be looking for an SE replacement to Lockpick Pro.
Kenmod - Lockpick Pro. I believe you can simply port it or use it as it is. I also use it for the same reason and I have it in SE. I don't remember if i got an se version or simply brought it over myself, but I think it may be usable as it is. I use a combination of Cathedral Assets Optimizer and SSE NIF Optimizer for assets. I find Nif Optimizer works better on meshes if they're problematic. I've since switched to Easy Lockpicking and Pickpocketing instead though since it just works without the need for the ui.
I do believe you'll have to port your version of Infinite Gold For Merchants, since I believe it was removed from Nexus and I don't know if it is posted elsewhere.
Easy NPCs does have a decent viewscreen to see the actuall NPCs and it seems to work just fine as well, though I just use my own method since Easy NPCs are a hassle to rebuild if you want to change things.
Definitely give Lexy's build a try. At worst you'll learn some stuff. It's always been a pretty solid build though. A friend of mine plays with it and updates it regularily. If you've already created an NPC merge you don't want to redo, you can probably substitute it pretty easily.
Here is how to make a spoiler: [?spoiler] Text [/spoiler?] (You have to remove the question marks from between the brackets though. You can't actually show how to make a spoiler without adding something else as it simply makes a spoiler and doesn't show how to make it.)
I've literally just discovered this page so I've not had time to do any more than browse the info. But it looks like it is exactly what I'm looking for since I'm considering using multiple NPC overhauls and picking and choosing individual NPCs from different overhauls. From what I can tell, the merging discussed here is exactly what is needed to accomplish this without the potential for suffering black-face issues, game instability, and the like.
In studying the structure of these mods, it seems that it is possible to make a patch (or all-in-one merge) by hand using xEdit and copying files appropriately. And frankly, I don't think this would be without benefit in terms of a learning exercise and my own personal enlightenment. But tools like zEdit (and I suppose Merge Plugins before it) really take care of this and can help avoid missing things that you might when doing things manually (not to mention being a lot faster than a manual method).
Thanks in advance for this info. It looks just like what is needed to accomplish my goal.
Always happy that people can make use of it. It works flawlessly when done correctly. I create an esp and forward any facegen and npc records I want to show in game when they're buried behind other overhauls, and put it at the end of the merge list. It works way better then deleting files. And yes, the whole thing then doesn't require any patches as they are included in the merge. I currently have around 50 overhauls with all the patches merged into a single esp at the end of my load order.
Yes, that's very much the sense I'm getting for how this works (particularly in regards to "forwarding" the needed stuff buried behind other overhauls is concerned). But not having done it myself yet (yes, I've done some Merge Plugins work and xEdit patches in the past but this was years ago (around the time SE came out and MO went to MO2) and I've forgotten everything), so I get concerned when studying the mod file structure that it seems that many mods put these assets in custom directories rather than a standard directory layout. I assume the records in the esp is what handles this unique layout, so I'm hoping that zEdit (and your instructions) will make it clear how to find the appropriate records and make the correct decisions on what to do with them.
facegen is always in the same path and the other assets don't have to be forwarded. At least I've never seen facegen in a different path. It's always under (Textures/meshes)/\actors\character\facegendata\(FaceGeom\facetint)\esp-name. There are some new replacers however that use skypatcher and have an entirely new system of overwriting/replacing npcs. I haven't looked into it, but they may not be able to be merged with the others. I don't know enough about them to say one way or the other. Coldsun has started using that method in his supernaturals replacer and uses an .ini with skypatcher acting something like spid.
Quick question! In the guide the following is stated...
In Xedit, Forwarding the record you want consists of going into the "Non-Player Character (Actor)" data tab and right clicking on the formid record you want to forward and clicking "copy as over-ride". You will get a list of your mods. Scroll down to the end and select "new", click enter. It will ask you to name the esp.
...but it seems at some point since this guide was written xEdit has been updated with different context menus. The choices are now "Copy as override into...", "Copy as override (with overwriting) into..." and finally "Copy as new record into..."
Help! I am completely lost as to which would be the best option! (Great job on the guide, btw. This is the only tough part!)
Copy as override is all you need. You shouldn't be overwriting any other records, which is what the "copy as override (with overwriting)" is for. You definitely do NOT want "copy as new record" as that will give the NPC a new formid and break the facegen.
Just read it. The download is just a text file to enable endorsements. This is a tutorial not a real mod. You can read it with notepad or any other txt editor.
Where did you get the "merge plugins hide" plugin? It's missing from my MO2 ( settings->Plugins doesn't have it )?
This guide would probably be better as a video to add the visual component people can follow through. It seems pretty legit but trying to visualize the steps in the applications while also reading the steps makes it harder to follow.
Other than that, it seems pretty darn good. I'm leaning towards making a conflict resolution mod that brings forward the features I want from each NPC overhaul mod. Great tip on including files from each mod as well.
This guide probably would work well with a video component. Unfortunately, that's outside my own experience and i really don't have any time or interest in learning the stuff it would require.
thank you so so so much for this! i struggle to understand most instructions and tend to f things up commonly but you explained so clearly and it turned out perfect! <3
So I think I am starting to understand the steps, but posting the specifics to make sure I am on the right track.
I am getting blackface from RedBag's Solitude added kids at the docks (only) when paired with RS Children and Realistic RS Children Overhaul. Everything about the kids looks right (they look like RS Children) except for face color. My sense is that Redbag children need the vanilla meshes/textures/facemaps. Is it a matter of placing the Redbag children before the RS children so they get the vanilla models and data? I don't mind them looking like vanilla kids if the faces can be fixed.
I think what this means is that I need to separate out the kids records from the redbag esp and delete those same kids records in the redbag esp, then move the new esp above RS Children's esm. If there's easy way to keep the RS Children and fix faces that's okay too, but it really seems Redbag's doesn't like the changes in RSChildren's esm...
I don't think you can have vanilla children if you use RS Children. I don't know all the details of RS Children and how it works, but the RSchildren.esm loads very high. I would check to see if the actual tintmasks for the kids is in the proper folder. (Sometimes they get forgotten and never included), but I suspect you need an RS children patch for those kids to avoid black faces. I sometimes use children from other patches and modify the esp and formids to make my own RS children patches if I can't find a patch for them. I misread your post initially, so everything below is just additional info.
Check the pathing of the RSchildren redbag patch. Some RS Children get black face because the patches are improperly made. The last folder before the actual tintmask/facegem sometimes have improper path names. If a child or npc comes from the Hearthfire DLC then that last folder name should be hearthfire.esm If someone makes a mod that references vanilla children, then the proper path isn't "that mods name". Vanilla children should always be placed in a folder that is called Skyrim.esm, Dawngaurd.esm, Hearthfire.esm or Dragonborn.esm. I haven't looked at the RS children Redbag patch, but if you look at the texture and mesh pathing for the facegen in Redbags children patch, the facegen pathing should look like this:
You see that at the end of the line is skyrim.esm. That is because that is the originating esp/esm of that npc. NPC's should always be in a folder that reflects which esp/esm they originate in otherwise the game doesn't know how to match up the formids, resulting in a black face. Often you will see that there are multiple folders for the DLC in the texture or meshes NPC paths. That is because different NPCs originate in different DLCs. Dawnguard introduces brand new NPCs that are not in the skyrim.esm, therefore, thier path name alway ends with dawnguard.esm\ 000XXXXX.dds or 000XXXXX.nif. Same with Hearthfire.esm and Dragonborn.esm
An NPC that originates in a mod that isn't vanilla, must always have the originating mod in the path. Arthmoor's Keld-Nar village is an example. He introduces 7 new NPCs in the village. They originate from the Keld-Nar.esp. Therefore, the proper path name for those 7 npcs will always be Textures\actors\character\FaceGenData\FaceTint\Keld-Nar.esp\000XXXXX.dds and Meshes\Actors\Character\FaceGenData\FaceGeom\Keld-Nar.esp\000XXXXX.nif
In Redbags Solitude, unless he introduces brand new NPCs, children or adult, the proper path name will always be one or more of the vanilla esms. If he does introduce brand new NPCs, then only those new NPCs would go into a Redbags Solitude.esp folder. All the rest of the npcs he references will go into their proper vanilla folder.
Yes, these are brand new NPCs, so I think they fall into the 2nd category where the folder name needs to be the same name as the originating mod's esp (RedBag's Solitude.esp). I did notice it was all lowercase in the bsa, so changed it to match the case of the plugin, and created a loose file archive of Redbag's actor meshes/textures and added it to the load order:
Unfortunately, there's no patch yet for RBS, so I am on my own here! I took your advice and looked at a few other patches to RS Children to see what they are doing, and I do notice they remove the not found tint and change to face tint 24.... I see the message <Tint Layer index not found in NordRaceChild "Nord Child" [RACE FormID]> in several patches and in RedBag, but everything else looks okay -- there's valid Face Morphs, Face Parts and Head Parts for all.
I did my best to match what the other patches seem to be doing, which is add the Tint Layer 24 that RS Children seems to be using, but it doesn't seem to help with the darkface. I also tried going into the CK and exporting the children records, and I do notice it is reporting the below lines:
TEXTURES: childhead.nif : ChildHead is missing a facegen tint map TEXTURES: childhead.nif : ChildHead is missing a facegen detail map
This leads me to believe I may need to copy RS Children's textures over to RedBag's texture folder (my loose file archive)? Possibly the meshes as well?
I don't think the folders are case sensitive, I am pretty sure they are not, but not 100% As far as there being no patch, it is easy enough to make a patch, using the assets from other patches. It is really just about renaming formids in the esp and in assets to match the formid's from redbags Solitude. Not as good as making them from scratch, but I actually have no idea how to make a patch from scratch. I have downloaded quite a few patches for RS Children and mods I don't use to give me a selection of kids to choose from. I typically match up the race and gender of the kid to be patched, with a kid from one of those unused patches. It isn't optimal perhaps, but at least I don't have black faced kids.
I have no idea about: TEXTURES: childhead.nif : ChildHead is missing a facegen tint map TEXTURES: childhead.nif : ChildHead is missing a facegen detail map its just a little above my paygrade. I hope you get it figured out.
Well, just tried this, and it fixed the problem -- now I just want to know what it did! https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/42441
EDIT: So what I've been trying to do (unsuccessfully) is re-establish the discarded tint data. From that mod's description:
This mod prevents the game from discarding tint data, so when errors are encountered, it will regenerate faces with correct colors.
There's probably a piece in the esp or files that's missing that I'm unable to find or generate, but if preventing the discard altogether solves the problem, it seems like a good solution.
And this post sheds some serious light: https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/5058675-missing-facegen-tint-map-etc-when-editing-vanilla-npc-in-se-ck/page-2#entry50412172
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For those with no idea how to create or modify patches, here is a good tutorial from Phaedrathallassa : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olEbW1Eqbus
For example, i have overhaul A and B. Overhaul A does a 500 NPC, while overhaul B does 50 NPC but much better, that overhaul A, so i place B at the end of the load order. But there is issue: Few NPC from B was done worse, that the same few from A, so i want to keep their appearance from A, despite other 48 NPC from B being superb. If i simpy delete those 2 reference from B using SSEEdit, i get those npc's blackfaced no matter what.
Does this issue have anything to do with matters ur described or i've looking in the wrong place? Also watched the pinned video, thats didnt helped me unfortunately.
Upd: part of your own comment:
"It is possible to not overwrite an NPC from another overhaul further up the chain, but that does require deleting facegen and records in the higher priority mods. For more info, you can go here: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/36840"
Exactly what i am looking for)
Upd 2:
Mixing faces from different overhauls without blackface bug requires creating patch (following the video), PLUS copying facegendata (nif and dds), in this new patch's folder or deleting its manually from folder of mod that you dont wish to use. I am sure there is better and faster way to do it somewhere, i stick with this solution right now)
Or as an alternative, and a far better method, you can forward the 1 record of Lydia from mod B into a new esp and make a new mod. You will then have to copy 1 texture and 1 mesh from mod B, the textures\actors\character\facegendata\facetint\skyrim.esm\A2C8E.dds as well as the meshes\actors\character\facegendata\facegeom\skyrim.esm\000A2C8E.nif into the appropriate folders for the new mod for Lydia. This new mod (mod H) is then placed after mod G.Either way will work. This of course will work with any npc or number of NPCs, so long as they are the last loaded record(s) and asset for the specific NPCs you are editing.
Note: only the asset facegeom mesh and facetint texture is required. The esp from mod B, or the new mod you created, will tell the game where to find the rest of the assets.
I hope this helps
And from everything I've heard about this Aela issue, I've not heard of anything that seems to indicate that we have a workable solution for this. The mod author for the Aela replacer I use (The Huntress Reborn) stated regarding their last release the hope that they'd fixed the issue but essentially said it was frustrating trying to deal with it and that they weren't confident the issue was resolved. Further they mentioned that other Aela replacer mods were dealing with the same problem and nothing I gathered from what was said implied that the modding community was any further along resolving the issue than we were on day one.
My question for you is, have you heard anything different? Do you have any input here? Do you know what is actually going on or have heard from any sources that have a good grasp of the issue and how to resolve it? Perhaps you even list the solution in your "Troubleshooting" section but I'm afraid I simply don't know enough about it yet to know when I'm actually looking at the answer.
Yup Pan is dead on with the graphic, and it's an awesome illustration for the purpose. I've explained the issue with words, but you know what they say about pictures being worth a thousand words.
Unfortunately I don't have an answer for you. That sounds like a coding issue where the werewolf is overwriting the human causing the black face when she's not a werewolf. My guess is the coding is still applying the werewolf textures when it shouldn't be, or something similiar.
I've seen the standing on the horse bug before with other scripts, and I think if you fast travel to an interior it would fix it, but it was a few years ago and I'm not 100% on it.
This is not to say anything negative about any mods, tools, guides, etc. or anyone in this sphere. Gopher, Michael (Gamer Poets), Cal (Dirty Weasel), among others have excellent stuff. The STEP guide, the Reddit Skyrim Mods area (Thallassa), and other comprehensive guides (i.e. DarkLadyLexy's Legacy of the Dragonborn -- something I just recently discovered from your guide here... more on this later) are certainly useful resources. But pertaining to things like STEP, I look at that and think "I just want to do a few mods, I don't want to have to get a PhD in this and spend years before playing." Or things change and "now you shouldn't use uGridsToLoad" (just an example) and because I've not been keeping up on updates and don't want to have to continually do so I end up with a mod configuration that isn't ideal (or worse, is broken, crashes, corrupted game saves, etc.). And for comprehensive guides like DarkLadyLexy's, I think (in addition to what I think about STEP), "I don't necessarily want all those mods, I'm just nibbling around the edges with relatively few mods." And I also think "what if I want different mods from the guide or I don't want a lighting overhaul or I don't want an ENB or I want a different NPC overhaul to win for a specific NPC or what if I don't have as powerful of a system or even if I do have a powerful system I choose performance over 'prettiness'..." and while it seems likely these guides address this to a certain extent, it seems like going through the guide would be a long way around if you don't incorporate much of what is in the guide. So compared to these, I don't really get too deep into this. And frankly, while I'm sure there are plenty of people who do go down the rabbit hole, there are likely many others who just want simplicity and easy, quick implementation without the hassle and bother of continually keeping up with this. They just want to play the game with some mods and a minimum of fuss.
Now my attitude here is particularly and primarily effected (from the list of things I mentioned) by frustration at out-of-date or non-existent information. Having to brute force by trial and error how something works isn't actually fun as far as I'm concerned. And considering the vast extent of modding, it isn't really feasible to take this sort of approach with everything without knowing what you're doing. So I've mostly contented myself with keeping modding to a minimum. That said, from browsing that DarkLadyLexy's guide it seems to be something in a format that I like and it seems to be relatively up to date (though it does have the characteristic "here's these thousands of mods to use in this guide" syndrome). So seeing that, for the first time in a long time, I'm actually considering potentially looking into following that guide at some point in the future. I'm sure I'll know a lot more about this after than I do now (I'm probably at pre-school stage currently, and by the end of the guide it's probably college degree stage). So for this inspiration, I thank you for that reference to the DarkLadyLexy's guide. It could be just what I need in a format that works for me.
I built Lexy's Build a couple of times a number of years ago, and it was well worth it even though it's not the build for me. I learned a lot about modding from that build and then I decided to learn Elminster's "The Method" (Xedit) and used it on lexy's build and really refined what i knew about Xedit. That allowed me to remove any mod from Lexy's guide and I did. I removed some pretty big mods, like Caco and LOtD and a couple other biggies I don't currently recall, but it brought my modding skills to a new level. I now routinely have 500 to 600 active esps not including the 50 or more NPC overhauls I use and then thier patches on top, since they're all merged into one esp or the other merges i still use to declutter the plugin panel.
All that to say Lexy's build is worth building simply to use as a learning tool even if you're not thrilled by many of the mods. I no longer use Lexy's build, though I suppose my own build is originally based from it. Truth be told, I never cared for her choices of NPCs either, but as I describe in this tutorial, that's an easy though time consuming fix.
Don't get caught up in the more is better mentality. I've used a ton of mods I no longer use, simply because they don't really add to my enjoyment. (Most were simply eye candy or once and done.) Yeah it's nice to have different borders, but do they actually add to your enjoyment of the game? Weather mods are another thing everyone seems to want, but they take a fair chunk of resources I would rather use in other ways, and the vanilla weather isn't terrible.
"Keep it simple. stupid" is an old saying that applies to modding too. Don't make it complicated. You don't have to use a ton of mods or a given system. I have a setup I use and enjoy when I want. I kept my original SSE install as a backup and still use skse 1.5.97 since I don't really care for the extra "free mods" DLCs and I won't be forced into updates I don't want. I avidly hate steam for it's forced updates, but I've since learned to simply copy my SSE directory and let steam update and then delete the update. I also never have steam online since I don't use online games.
My advice: Build Lexy's build and take what you want from it. There is nothing in that build that can't come out, and so long as you use some common sense, you don't have to use every mod or mod variant she uses. An example is she used to use the UNP body. I would simply substitute the CBBE one. Armor's are another easy substitute. NPC Overhauls are another. If you're half way familiar with Xedit, you can remove any mod or mods in her build. It can be a lot of work, but it's do-able.
If you play FO4 I use the MOFAM build for that game, though it's very heavily modified. It's an exceptional build though, and similiar in stature to Lexy's Build. He also has a mofam for oblivion and FO3.
Good luck and don't feel pressured to use any particular system. Often, there is nothing wrong with vanilla.
That is, till now. With the DarkLadyLexy's guide, it really does seem to be my speed, while it also appears to address many of my long standing concerns and gives me hope that I can reasonably take that journey without too much worry (i.e. won't be to the end of my lifetime to accomplish, isn't fraught with too many gaps of old or no info, etc.). I don't think I can adequately express how freeing, inspiring, exhilarating this is after so many years looking and wanting this sort of thing and feeling stymied for one reason or another. And then now to see something that gives hope that the original vision you had years and years ago may actually be achievable due to finding an authoritative source that coalesces it all in one place, in a form that is digestible. That's just great! I think the approach you advise is exactly right: using it as a learning tool, then later with this greatly increased understanding I can build things how I see fit. And this would allow me to accomplish new builds much more intelligently, quickly, correctly than what I've agonizingly and torturously cobbled together previously.
The rest below is just extra commentary...
I stopped playing Skyrim for the most part around the time Skyrim SE came out and Tannin got hired by nexus for Vortex and there was some uncertainty about MO's future. At the time, I'd just started to consider NPC overhaul mods but to my mind, in order to decide on what to choose I'd have to see each in game. So I embarked on a project of compiling comparison shots for all the NPCs from these various mods. Somewhat like this skin mod comparison on the nexus (though mine is not as well done and doesn't use tools that can help provide consistency like they've done). But I'm over 800 screenshots into it, with a spreadsheet that's almost 1,200 lines and I'm still not done taking screenshots, let alone started to compare and make choices. Yet, if I understand how EasyNPC works, you can have all your overhaul mods installed and it'll show you what each NPC looks like for each mod and you can easily choose from there without the need for a project like this (assuming of course, the rendering EasyNPC gives is faithful enough to what it'll actually really look like in-game and assuming you can see these renderings in something larger than just the thumbnail picture lineup one screenshot on the EasyNPC page shows).
Example 2 How It's Better: Troubleshooting Dark Face
DarkLadyLexy's site references this video about troubleshooting dark face. It shows how to use some recent tools (dark face issue reporter) to deal with this in a relatively automated fashion and in a much more comprehensive way for the whole population of NPCs. This certainly beats dealing with this manually (which really isn't even feasible if you're dealing with a large number). That's definitely the way to do it. Indeed, in my experience, if you are manually handling things one at a time in a situation where you have thousands to deal with, there almost certainly is a better way and dealing with things by hand individually is only useful as a learning exercise. So this tool illustrates how those have seen this issue and indeed developed a better approach.
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Frankly, I'd be moving to use all this already, but as I mentioned I quit playing around the time SE came out. So coming back to it just within the last month or so, I'm still on LE. Back then, one reason for not switching was because the lack of SE mods and concerns that those I really didn't want to play without just wouldn't be there on SE. Since then, SE has surpassed LE in number of mods and my concern switched to the potential hassle of trying to find replacements for mods for those I didn't want to do without. But after briefly checking just now, it appears that most of my highly desired mods have been ported to SE or can be easily ported (open in CK, save...).
In fact, looks like you had a hand in something relating to the Infinite Gold For Merchants mod on the SE side. Great mod. Not that we need tons of gold in Skyrim since you'll be swimming in it by mid-game and beyond (in fact, with Alchemy (Salmon Roe, Nordic Barnacle, etc.), you could be swimming in it on day one). But I don't want to have to travel the entirety of Skyrim visiting every merchant in order to sell off my dungeon hauls (and I don't want to have to hassle with merchant inventory reset glitching either). And I frankly find it offensive that my 18k+ gold valued custom created potion gets truncated to 5-6k because of what I consider to be a draconian game design decision which certainly doesn't allow you the freedom to "play any way you want" (though apparently, it "just works"). Oblivion didn't have this issue. Merchants in there had unlimited gold, though there was a gold limit per transaction. But in that game, I don't recall running into an issue where an item value passed this limit--certainly not in any egregious way like in Skyrim.
So I guess my original plan to just continue to limp along in LE may soon change. With DarkLadyLexy's guide showing a feasible path forward in modding and most or all of my other objections resolved, SE may indeed be in my future (something I never thought I'd do). I will lament the loss of KenMOD - Lockpick Pro since that has been removed from the LE side of the nexus and isn't on SE as far as I can see. Too bad, since I hate the lockpick mini-game. In Oblivion it was even worse, but at least you could prioritize getting the Skeleton Key, could keep it permanently, and thus would be relieved of the lockpick hassle for the rest of the game. For Skyrim, at least lockpicking is minimally interesting or at worst less annoying than Oblivion. But if I do make the switch, I'll definitely be looking for an SE replacement to Lockpick Pro.
Kenmod - Lockpick Pro. I believe you can simply port it or use it as it is. I also use it for the same reason and I have it in SE. I don't remember if i got an se version or simply brought it over myself, but I think it may be usable as it is. I use a combination of Cathedral Assets Optimizer and SSE NIF Optimizer for assets. I find Nif Optimizer works better on meshes if they're problematic. I've since switched to Easy Lockpicking and Pickpocketing instead though since it just works without the need for the ui.
I do believe you'll have to port your version of Infinite Gold For Merchants, since I believe it was removed from Nexus and I don't know if it is posted elsewhere.
Easy NPCs does have a decent viewscreen to see the actuall NPCs and it seems to work just fine as well, though I just use my own method since Easy NPCs are a hassle to rebuild if you want to change things.
Definitely give Lexy's build a try. At worst you'll learn some stuff. It's always been a pretty solid build though. A friend of mine plays with it and updates it regularily. If you've already created an NPC merge you don't want to redo, you can probably substitute it pretty easily.
Here is how to make a spoiler: [?spoiler] Text [/spoiler?]
(You have to remove the question marks from between the brackets though. You can't actually show how to make a spoiler without adding something else as it simply makes a spoiler and doesn't show how to make it.)
In studying the structure of these mods, it seems that it is possible to make a patch (or all-in-one merge) by hand using xEdit and copying files appropriately. And frankly, I don't think this would be without benefit in terms of a learning exercise and my own personal enlightenment. But tools like zEdit (and I suppose Merge Plugins before it) really take care of this and can help avoid missing things that you might when doing things manually (not to mention being a lot faster than a manual method).
Thanks in advance for this info. It looks just like what is needed to accomplish my goal.
...but it seems at some point since this guide was written xEdit has been updated with different context menus. The choices are now "Copy as override into...", "Copy as override (with overwriting) into..." and finally "Copy as new record into..."
Help! I am completely lost as to which would be the best option! (Great job on the guide, btw. This is the only tough part!)
This guide would probably be better as a video to add the visual component people can follow through. It seems pretty legit but trying to visualize the steps in the applications while also reading the steps makes it harder to follow.
Other than that, it seems pretty darn good. I'm leaning towards making a conflict resolution mod that brings forward the features I want from each NPC overhaul mod. Great tip on including files from each mod as well.
This guide probably would work well with a video component. Unfortunately, that's outside my own experience and i really don't have any time or interest in learning the stuff it would require.
Glad you like it and hope it helps.
I am getting blackface from RedBag's Solitude added kids at the docks (only) when paired with RS Children and Realistic RS Children Overhaul. Everything about the kids looks right (they look like RS Children) except for face color. My sense is that Redbag children need the vanilla meshes/textures/facemaps. Is it a matter of placing the Redbag children before the RS children so they get the vanilla models and data? I don't mind them looking like vanilla kids if the faces can be fixed.
I think what this means is that I need to separate out the kids records from the redbag esp and delete those same kids records in the redbag esp, then move the new esp above RS Children's esm. If there's easy way to keep the RS Children and fix faces that's okay too, but it really seems Redbag's doesn't like the changes in RSChildren's esm...
Check the pathing of the RSchildren redbag patch. Some RS Children get black face because the patches are improperly made. The last folder before the actual tintmask/facegem sometimes have improper path names. If a child or npc comes from the Hearthfire DLC then that last folder name should be hearthfire.esm If someone makes a mod that references vanilla children, then the proper path isn't "that mods name". Vanilla children should always be placed in a folder that is called Skyrim.esm, Dawngaurd.esm, Hearthfire.esm or Dragonborn.esm. I haven't looked at the RS children Redbag patch, but if you look at the texture and mesh pathing for the facegen in Redbags children patch, the facegen pathing should look like this:
Textures\actors\character\FaceGenData\FaceTint\skyrim.esm.
You see that at the end of the line is skyrim.esm. That is because that is the originating esp/esm of that npc. NPC's should always be in a folder that reflects which esp/esm they originate in otherwise the game doesn't know how to match up the formids, resulting in a black face. Often you will see that there are multiple folders for the DLC in the texture or meshes NPC paths. That is because different NPCs originate in different DLCs. Dawnguard introduces brand new NPCs that are not in the skyrim.esm, therefore, thier path name alway ends with dawnguard.esm\ 000XXXXX.dds or 000XXXXX.nif. Same with Hearthfire.esm and Dragonborn.esm
An NPC that originates in a mod that isn't vanilla, must always have the originating mod in the path. Arthmoor's Keld-Nar village is an example. He introduces 7 new NPCs in the village. They originate from the Keld-Nar.esp. Therefore, the proper path name for those 7 npcs will always be Textures\actors\character\FaceGenData\FaceTint\Keld-Nar.esp\000XXXXX.dds and Meshes\Actors\Character\FaceGenData\FaceGeom\Keld-Nar.esp\000XXXXX.nif
In Redbags Solitude, unless he introduces brand new NPCs, children or adult, the proper path name will always be one or more of the vanilla esms. If he does introduce brand new NPCs, then only those new NPCs would go into a Redbags Solitude.esp folder. All the rest of the npcs he references will go into their proper vanilla folder.
Yes, these are brand new NPCs, so I think they fall into the 2nd category where the folder name needs to be the same name as the originating mod's esp (RedBag's Solitude.esp). I did notice it was all lowercase in the bsa, so changed it to match the case of the plugin, and created a loose file archive of Redbag's actor meshes/textures and added it to the load order:
Meshes\actors\character\FaceGenData\FaceGeom\RedBag's Solitude.esp\
Textures\actors\character\FaceGenData\FaceTint\RedBag's Solitude.esp\
Unfortunately, there's no patch yet for RBS, so I am on my own here!
I did my best to match what the other patches seem to be doing, which is add the Tint Layer 24 that RS Children seems to be using, but it doesn't seem to help with the darkface. I also tried going into the CK and exporting the children records, and I do notice it is reporting the below lines:
TEXTURES: childhead.nif : ChildHead is missing a facegen tint map
TEXTURES: childhead.nif : ChildHead is missing a facegen detail map
This leads me to believe I may need to copy RS Children's textures over to RedBag's texture folder (my loose file archive)? Possibly the meshes as well?
As far as there being no patch, it is easy enough to make a patch, using the assets from other patches. It is really just about renaming formids in the esp and in assets to match the formid's from redbags Solitude. Not as good as making them from scratch, but I actually have no idea how to make a patch from scratch. I have downloaded quite a few patches for RS Children and mods I don't use to give me a selection of kids to choose from. I typically match up the race and gender of the kid to be patched, with a kid from one of those unused patches. It isn't optimal perhaps, but at least I don't have black faced kids.
I have no idea about:
TEXTURES: childhead.nif : ChildHead is missing a facegen tint map
TEXTURES: childhead.nif : ChildHead is missing a facegen detail map
its just a little above my paygrade. I hope you get it figured out.
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/42441
EDIT: So what I've been trying to do (unsuccessfully) is re-establish the discarded tint data. From that mod's description:
There's probably a piece in the esp or files that's missing that I'm unable to find or generate, but if preventing the discard altogether solves the problem, it seems like a good solution.
And this post sheds some serious light:
https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/5058675-missing-facegen-tint-map-etc-when-editing-vanilla-npc-in-se-ck/page-2#entry50412172