Looking at the second image, I was almost under the impression you had just made a nightmare fuel mod. It got me thinking. Would you consider making a mod that actually does the opposite of fixing it, sort of like image #2? So all the NPCs and mannequins (a type of NPC) sort of have those mouths and jaws?
so does this require the efa mouth files to be installed from the efa mod page under optional files? When I overwrite it with this fixed mod efa mouth becomes redundant in MO2.
I am a mesh newb, but I just loaded them in nifscope side by side and visually they look different... is that not a good gauge to go by?
I've also noticed with EFA / Expressive face morphs, on occasion the facegen head meshes seem to have two little voids just below the mouth on either side of the lips. More commonly on elves with beard... sometimes it is visible in game, sometimes not... any ideas on that? would this mod fix that?
If you find their textures are different, that shouldn't be an issue. If their physical shape is different then it could be problematic but should still work fine. Maybe you've got an older version of either mod or its just some shader trickery but I'm confident from what I've seen that they're the same and will work. As for the head thing, I don't know. It sounds like the problem this mod was intended to fix but I can't tell from the description alone.
So it if I use the included mouth textures that come with EFA or Expressive facegen morphs it seems to conceal the flaw. It isn't visible in game. Yet if I use another teeth texture to replace the mouthhuman.dds and the normal texture. Then it becomes extremely obvious.
The screen shots above were from Smile in HD... no mesh, just texture. and it seems specific to elves, especially dunmer, only male. Comparing the two textures side by side they do appear different in shape... So I guess EFA and expressive face gen morphs are dependent on a specific texture? would your meshes help with this? as much I like EFA the teeth are too white and perfect.
Thanks!!
Edit: sorry, my bad.
"An upgraded version of the EFA mouth, with a vanilla mesh adjusted for the Fair Skin mouth texture.
if you want to use any other mouth mod, delete or disable the EFM file or overwrite it with another mod. The EFM mouth mesh does not match other textures because the UV map has been edited to match the included texture"
Edit 2:
I did as as the author recommended and tried overwriting the mouthhumanf.nif and mouthhuman.nif with both versions of the double sided vertex fix (vanilla and EFA)... but now his happens. clipping above instead of below the mouth.
If it clips, it clips, so the textures you use can be whatever you like with no issue of compatibility.
This mod clears away some of the clipping by making it invisible with a replacement model. This model will only show up on NPCs after regenerating facegen data, otherwise it's player-only.
The mod that adds the NPCs in these pics is part of the issue. Heads in Skyrim don't update when you install new morphs, the morphs just add on to it. The combined efforts of the new morphs on vanilla-made elf heads is causing it to clip, and the best way to get around that would be to regenerate facegen data for that mod with the new morphs installed (in theory. It works for the black face bug at least). I want to clarify that it's an issue created when the two mods are mixed and that neither of them are broken or need fixing. This is likely to happen with a lot of mods that add vanilla-based elves while Expressive FaceGen Morphs is installed.
Hey! Im a little confused here. I use EFA but i dont use EFA mouth meshes (because i dont have modified mouth from Fair Skin Complexion), so which files i should download from here: main or optional?
Main if you want to continue using the vanilla mouth shape. Optional if you want to use EFA's mouth shape. FSC textures aren't a hard requirement, they're just recommended textures.
Is permission required if I want to post facegen export when I had this mod installed when I ran facegen? Such as improved facegen for HMB Cathedral concept?
Would this help the issue of teeth being too dark? On one of my characters all teeth mods look fine, but on my other ones the teeth are overly shaded and the character looks kind of scary when they smile. https://i.imgur.com/wHlQ1Wk.png I'm on a hunt for answers haha
edit: here's a shot of the character whose teeth seem to be working just fine! https://i.imgur.com/uHo1HlA.png
This won't fix that issue unless it's a vertex colouring issue with your existing teeth, so you can give it a try but theres no promises. This is mostly for anyone experiencing clipping in the jaw/chin. Also is there a chance its just the teeth texture seen in contrast? Have you tried other teeth textures, maybe like Mari's?
Just saw your reply. I have tried other teeth textures and have actually had this same issue with them being too dark then too https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/637804327561330699/654729995633164289/ScreenShot2002.png ... I think it's a mix of the reflection setting combined with enb shading? I still honestly am not entirely sure.
What I ended up doing was to play with these teeth in both nifscope and photoshop, adjusting the lighting, brightness and coloration to them and I'm pretty happy with them now! I think the ENB enhances the shadows a bit too much but is not the main issue; the teeth look a lot better (at least on my light-skinned characters, I haven't checked on my dark-skinned one from the picture yet) after I adjusted them myself. The teeth do look a lot brighter against dark skin and , looking at screenshots, I don't think it's just the human eye interpreting the contrasts between light and dark in this case. I don't really have answers as to why it looks so different from character to character.
Here's a before and after shot anyway, if anyone is curious of what difference you can accomplish by editing the files yourself! I intend to work more on the colorizing, to make them less Hollywood White but more "human" ivory-ish. Her teeth are placed a bit low on these pictures so I could see them better as I was testing. But you get the gist! Before: https://i.imgur.com/wHlQ1Wk.png After: https://i.imgur.com/q2l6aLC.png
Please, Ruhadre, forgive my ignorance, but I'd like to understand why there's no patch for the male version of Expressive Facial Animation. Thanks for all your mods.
I think optional archive includes both male and female versions. Why does it needs patch tho? EFA modifies only tri files, but thanks to the author anyway!
EFA tris are based on the new positioning of his edited EFA meshes. This is why bugs would show up on NPCs using just the vanilla mesh (reference bug report comments on EFA page). I proved this was the case by providing facegens with EFA meshes built into them, and suddenly, all expression related bugs with NPCs disappeared.
I included meshes for both female and males.
Let me explain something about meshes and tris. Meshes establish the base line form, yes, but tris then tell that mesh how to move based on sliders, expression, or even race. If you put in a mesh that changes the positions of vertices, or changes the amount of vertices...the behavior of those tris will also change. Tris aren't psychic nor magical...if you give it a mesh it wasn't designed for, you will get unintended results.
This why I personally stay away from any mouth mesh claiming to be "rescaled", or "scaled down"...because that means vertice positioning have changed. Using the vertex alpha trick to make unessential parts of the mouth mesh disappear but while keeping it's vertices is a much more compatible solution to people abusing Racemenu sliders.
Let me explain how meshes and tris work with a "pretend dialogue"...
Vanilla Mouth Mesh: "Hi there EFA tri, sir! What are today's marching orders?" EFA Tri: "Today we are doing something different! You will head to these coordinates and await further instructions." Vanilla Mouth Mesh: "Beg pardon sir, but these coordinates are meant for an EFA mouth mesh unit. We weren't trained for this operation." EFA Tri: "Do it anyway. Follow your orders." .... Vanilla Mouth Mesh: "Sir! We landed way outside the zone! Visual bugs are all over the place, we can't hold them off! *cuts out*" EFA Tri: "At least you followed orders."
Sorry for the late reply. I just wanted to say I appreciate your detailed answer.
Luke is right, and you confirmed, there are meshes for both genders in the patch files. I was confused because EFA stands for Expressive FACIAL Animation, but you wrote Expressive FEMALE Animation in the Files page. So, it's all clear now. Thanks!
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I've also noticed with EFA / Expressive face morphs, on occasion the facegen head meshes seem to have two little voids just below the mouth on either side of the lips. More commonly on elves with beard... sometimes it is visible in game, sometimes not... any ideas on that? would this mod fix that?
As for the head thing, I don't know. It sounds like the problem this mod was intended to fix but I can't tell from the description alone.
screenshots?
So it if I use the included mouth textures that come with EFA or Expressive facegen morphs it seems to conceal the flaw. It isn't visible in game. Yet if I use another teeth texture to replace the mouthhuman.dds and the normal texture. Then it becomes extremely obvious.
The screen shots above were from Smile in HD... no mesh, just texture. and it seems specific to elves, especially dunmer, only male. Comparing the two textures side by side they do appear different in shape... So I guess EFA and expressive face gen morphs are dependent on a specific texture? would your meshes help with this? as much I like EFA the teeth are too white and perfect.
Thanks!!
Edit: sorry, my bad.
"An upgraded version of the EFA mouth, with a vanilla mesh adjusted for the Fair Skin mouth texture.
if you want to use any other mouth mod, delete or disable the EFM file or overwrite it with another mod. The EFM mouth mesh does not match other textures because the UV map has been edited to match the included texture"
Edit 2:
I did as as the author recommended and tried overwriting the mouthhumanf.nif and mouthhuman.nif with both versions of the double sided vertex fix (vanilla and EFA)... but now his happens. clipping above instead of below the mouth.
edit: here's a shot of the character whose teeth seem to be working just fine! https://i.imgur.com/uHo1HlA.png
Also is there a chance its just the teeth texture seen in contrast? Have you tried other teeth textures, maybe like Mari's?
What I ended up doing was to play with these teeth in both nifscope and photoshop, adjusting the lighting, brightness and coloration to them and I'm pretty happy with them now! I think the ENB enhances the shadows a bit too much but is not the main issue; the teeth look a lot better (at least on my light-skinned characters, I haven't checked on my dark-skinned one from the picture yet) after I adjusted them myself. The teeth do look a lot brighter against dark skin and , looking at screenshots, I don't think it's just the human eye interpreting the contrasts between light and dark in this case. I don't really have answers as to why it looks so different from character to character.
Here's a before and after shot anyway, if anyone is curious of what difference you can accomplish by editing the files yourself! I intend to work more on the colorizing, to make them less Hollywood White but more "human" ivory-ish. Her teeth are placed a bit low on these pictures so I could see them better as I was testing. But you get the gist!
Before: https://i.imgur.com/wHlQ1Wk.png
After: https://i.imgur.com/q2l6aLC.png
Thanks for all your mods.
I included meshes for both female and males.
Let me explain something about meshes and tris. Meshes establish the base line form, yes, but tris then tell that mesh how to move based on sliders, expression, or even race. If you put in a mesh that changes the positions of vertices, or changes the amount of vertices...the behavior of those tris will also change. Tris aren't psychic nor magical...if you give it a mesh it wasn't designed for, you will get unintended results.
This why I personally stay away from any mouth mesh claiming to be "rescaled", or "scaled down"...because that means vertice positioning have changed. Using the vertex alpha trick to make unessential parts of the mouth mesh disappear but while keeping it's vertices is a much more compatible solution to people abusing Racemenu sliders.
Let me explain how meshes and tris work with a "pretend dialogue"...
Vanilla Mouth Mesh: "Hi there EFA tri, sir! What are today's marching orders?"
EFA Tri: "Today we are doing something different! You will head to these coordinates and await further instructions."
Vanilla Mouth Mesh: "Beg pardon sir, but these coordinates are meant for an EFA mouth mesh unit. We weren't trained for this operation."
EFA Tri: "Do it anyway. Follow your orders."
....
Vanilla Mouth Mesh: "Sir! We landed way outside the zone! Visual bugs are all over the place, we can't hold them off! *cuts out*"
EFA Tri: "At least you followed orders."
Luke is right, and you confirmed, there are meshes for both genders in the patch files. I was confused because EFA stands for Expressive FACIAL Animation, but you wrote Expressive FEMALE Animation in the Files page. So, it's all clear now. Thanks!