The patch for Sacrosanct doesn't seem to work. The number for blood keeps dropping, despite feeding on victims, and the sacrosanct status reaching "Sated".
I tried the relisting, and it didn't work. All of my plugins are triple checked, and it's the cleanest modded install I've ever had. So the only logical conclusion I can come to is that the patch is outdated :/
Is this mod compatible with the "Better Vampires"? There is a patch for the LE-version, but not here. (Complaints about incompatibility in the "Vampire Feeding" script)
Well this was the case for Oldrim which I'm still playing. All IMCN does is give and manages a hunger needs system for your PC. With the added bonus ability to eat any custom food mods provided the food are classified as ingestibles (which you need to modify with IMCN Keyword tag using TESVEdit).
Just disable the Frostfall/Campfire hunger system in MCM (which is far more basic than IMCN). Your PC should still continue getting the benefit of Campfire's survival buffs to environment exposure from eating stews and soups. IMCN will do the rest (far more intricately) Especially where the likes of luxury food commodities like coffee and drugs (moon sugar etc) are concerned. .
have Imp's More Complex Needs compatibily issues with sacrosanct? and can you do a mcm port from the oldrim version? Thanks for your patches!
-- Edit --
Ok I tested with only sacrosanct and imcn and seems to be not compatible cause when I feed on npcs it works just for sacrosanct while on IMCN still remains the debuff like i didn't feed. Hope you or anyone can do a patch cause sacrosanct is nice mod and played by lot of people and IMCN that I found out just few days ago seems to be the best needs mod on nexus (for my taste)
I'm sorry, I'm halfway working off of memory here. I haven't looked at IMCN since...well, since before iNeed. Still, I did look into things then, including looking at the scripts to the extent I could, and looking at Imp's patches with TES5Edit.
There are basically two ways to add a food to IMCN: the easy way meant to make things quick and simple, and the complicated way that gives you a lot more control and, for example, lets you control what food item is created when you eat a food item. It's what lets you eat a Goat Cheese Wheel in IMCN and get the effect of eating a Goat Cheese and five more in your inventory. The easy way is keywords.
The hard way...is much more complicated. It's not scripted based off the dummy effect - like @PatchesTheClown said that really just blocks the 'this potion has no effect' message. Adding a food means making an Activator - because those can have script properties added - of type FoodEntry or FoodVariant, and a FoodRecipe if you want, and adding those activators to the cell IMCNmodFoodsCell - *that* is the place that the scripts search for modified food items. Then they take the scripted values, update everything, and I think move the activators to another cell or a formlist or...I really can't remember, and because the scripts are in a BSA I really can't be bothered to look.
I am attempting to patch IMCN with Skyrim Alchemy and Food Overhaul. I'm having some problems understanding the structure of the mod.
- Your patches apply IMCN's generic keywords to other foods. I can see this by opening your CACO patch in SSEEdit. This is simple to do.
- These keywords are not used by the base mod. IMCN, and its first party patches, will replace the effects of a food with "Dummy Potion Effect", and sometimes edit the weight (and nothing else). This effect does nothing. IMCN also adds an activator for each food item it and its patches cover, that contains full information about that food. My guess is that there's a quest running that looks for the dummy potion to activate, and then reads from the activator of whatever food was eaten.
- My guess, then, is that the keywords your patches use (which are included in the base mod, but seemingly never referenced) are a second system designed for more generic patching.
If this is true, then adding the correct keywords to mod-added foods will allow them to be eaten, even if their specific calories/protein/etc values are slightly wrong. This is something I can easily do.
I'm wondering if what I'm saying is correct to your knowledge, and have one more question. CACO overwrites the dummy potion effect and weight changes of IMCN, but your patch does not seem to change that. Maybe the effect included is just to make there be an effect so the engine doesn't get angry? I'd like to know why patching that conflict isn't necessary.
- I opened a couple of the source scripts, and I think the weight changes are meaningful. The data stored in activators about food keeps it in grams (X grams of protein, for instance). icmnasfoodentry.psc appears to divide those by the food's weight before returning whatever number is then used.
Last, thank you for making these. I think I can make a functional patch, but not without looking at yours first.
It sounds like you know more than I do, I'll try to help best I can. The Dummy Potion effect, I originally thought it was a hook for the script since you can't attach a script to ingestibles but it's not and IMCN works fine even if you remove the dummy effect so I have no idea what it's for. It could be that Imp just got sick of seeing the "Potion has 0 effects" warning and added an empty effect. I didn't patch the food effects/dummy potion conflict because I try to keep the mods as original as possible when making patches, really it's just a design choice, you can go either way. I believe you're right about the activators, they seem to handle nutrition and spoilage. I don't know about the weights though, I just tested by doubling the weight of an Apple and it's giving the same nutrition.
If you're trying to make the mod added foods give real values like the vanilla ones, I can't help you there, that's well beyond my skill level, If you want a simple patch like the CACO patch; 1. Add IMCNisGenericFood to all foods 2. Add a second keyword depending on the food type (IMCNgenericMeatDried, IMCNgenericMeatRaw, IMCNgenericFruit, etc) 3. (Optional) Add IMCNextraTasty/IMCNextraGross to affect appeal
The foods will give a generic amount of nutrition based on a similar vanilla food. So everything with the IMCNgenericMeatCooked will give the same nutrition as Cooked Beef.
Hope that clears a few things up. Let me know if I can be of help.
I've come to the same conclusions you have. I'm uncertain about two things, though. For beverages, there's generic ale/mead/water/wine, but also drinkable water and questionable water. I'd guess the last two are for water sources you can refill/drink from. I've opted to not add isGenericFood to beverages, but that might not be correct.
Also, multiple keywords. As an example, SAFO adds Histcarp Stew, which I tagged as generic food, generic stew, and generic fish (cooked). I checked beef stew (vanilla) vs wolf stew (which I gave meat, stew and food tags), and got equivalent nutrition, but I'm not sure if that'll be true for all cases. The concern I have is accidentally inflating the value of these foods by stacking tags.
I've made a simple patch and tested it in game, and nothing seems incredibly broken as of now. SAFO lets kahjiit, argonians and (I think) bosmer eat raw meat without penalty, while ICMN doesn't care, but that's something for another day. Mator's Automation Tools made it less of a slog, though I never figured out the syntax to programmatically make the records I wanted (I would instead manually set up the keywords for one food, and copy those onto all similar foods).
There's quite a bit of unused stuff related to water. I believe it was originally meant to have some sort of purification mechanic, sort of like getting questionable water from a river then boiling it and getting drinkable water. I put genericFood, genericWater and drinkableWater tags on water and it gives the same nutrition IMCNs water so I haven't messed with it. Unless SAFO has a purification system or some sort of dirty drinks, I don't think IMCNquestionableWater will be of use.
Multiple keywords don't work, it'll only take one keyword. I think it takes the keyword with the highest nutritional value but I'm not sure. I got creative with the stews, I found the value way to low for stews with multiple ingredient so I would give them keywords better than stew like fishCooked or fowlCooked.
Quick suggestion off the top of my head, I haven't checked if it would work but for the raw meat I would put all the raw meats in a formList and the appropriate races in another formList. Then attach a script to the food poisoning effect. The script would check if the magic effects' source is on the meat list and the target is on the race list. If both are true, clear the food poisoning effect.
I have no experience with Mator's Automation Tools, I've been using the "Skyrim: Add a keyword..." script in SSEEdit. You can run it on all the foods for IMCNisGenericFood then seperately on each group of food for the second keyword.
I'll go back and make sure to tag all my drinks with GenericFood, but it'll wait a bit. I'm doing a slightly more extended playthrough to check for bugs and balance problems. The entire river near whiterun doesn't seem to be appearing as a refillable option, so I think I'll rerun the water fix script on my load order (I'd guess the IMCNlistWaterBases list is what controls refills, and I shouldn't have anything that makes the river stop counting).
The method I think I've settled on is a copy of SAFO's. I've added conditions to salmonella that should make it only apply correctly: there's four conditions comparing 0 to GetIsRace Argonian/Khajiit/Orc/Wood Elf. If I understand correctly, that means the magic effect will apply only if the target is not one of those races, but I'll have to test it in game. I'd rather avoid scripting, because I don't know the language and more know of the tools than actually know them.
I wouldn't have guessed SSEEdit would come with a script to do what I wanted, but that's my fault. I knew of Automation Tools because one patcher or another required them, so I already had them installed. I'll be using Add a Keyword for the rest of this.
This is the most involved patch I've done, so I greatly appreciate you helping me figure things out.
IMCNs water detection is pretty spotty in my experience, it doesn't detect standing water. Just things like waterfalls, rapids, geysers, etc. I've never gotten it to work on river water though I haven't really tried. I'm not sure about the Salmonella, I don't remember how it's applied. If it's scripted then I don't think conditions will be able to prevent it. It's worth a shot. No problem, happy to help.
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I tried the relisting, and it didn't work. All of my plugins are triple checked, and it's the cleanest modded install I've ever had. So the only logical conclusion I can come to is that the patch is outdated :/
like eating and stuff
Just disable the Frostfall/Campfire hunger system in MCM (which is far more basic than IMCN). Your PC should still continue getting the benefit of Campfire's survival buffs to environment exposure from eating stews and soups. IMCN will do the rest (far more intricately) Especially where the likes of luxury food commodities like coffee and drugs (moon sugar etc) are concerned. .
Thanks for your patches!
-- Edit --
Ok I tested with only sacrosanct and imcn and seems to be not compatible cause when I feed on npcs it works just for sacrosanct while on IMCN still remains the debuff like i didn't feed.
Hope you or anyone can do a patch cause sacrosanct is nice mod and played by lot of people and IMCN that I found out just few days ago seems to be the best needs mod on nexus (for my taste)
Anyway thanks again for your patches!
There are basically two ways to add a food to IMCN: the easy way meant to make things quick and simple, and the complicated way that gives you a lot more control and, for example, lets you control what food item is created when you eat a food item. It's what lets you eat a Goat Cheese Wheel in IMCN and get the effect of eating a Goat Cheese and five more in your inventory. The easy way is keywords.
The hard way...is much more complicated. It's not scripted based off the dummy effect - like @PatchesTheClown said that really just blocks the 'this potion has no effect' message. Adding a food means making an Activator - because those can have script properties added - of type FoodEntry or FoodVariant, and a FoodRecipe if you want, and adding those activators to the cell IMCNmodFoodsCell - *that* is the place that the scripts search for modified food items. Then they take the scripted values, update everything, and I think move the activators to another cell or a formlist or...I really can't remember, and because the scripts are in a BSA I really can't be bothered to look.
- Your patches apply IMCN's generic keywords to other foods. I can see this by opening your CACO patch in SSEEdit. This is simple to do.
- These keywords are not used by the base mod. IMCN, and its first party patches, will replace the effects of a food with "Dummy Potion Effect", and sometimes edit the weight (and nothing else). This effect does nothing. IMCN also adds an activator for each food item it and its patches cover, that contains full information about that food. My guess is that there's a quest running that looks for the dummy potion to activate, and then reads from the activator of whatever food was eaten.
- My guess, then, is that the keywords your patches use (which are included in the base mod, but seemingly never referenced) are a second system designed for more generic patching.
If this is true, then adding the correct keywords to mod-added foods will allow them to be eaten, even if their specific calories/protein/etc values are slightly wrong. This is something I can easily do.
I'm wondering if what I'm saying is correct to your knowledge, and have one more question. CACO overwrites the dummy potion effect and weight changes of IMCN, but your patch does not seem to change that. Maybe the effect included is just to make there be an effect so the engine doesn't get angry? I'd like to know why patching that conflict isn't necessary.
- I opened a couple of the source scripts, and I think the weight changes are meaningful. The data stored in activators about food keeps it in grams (X grams of protein, for instance). icmnasfoodentry.psc appears to divide those by the food's weight before returning whatever number is then used.
Last, thank you for making these. I think I can make a functional patch, but not without looking at yours first.
I believe you're right about the activators, they seem to handle nutrition and spoilage.
I don't know about the weights though, I just tested by doubling the weight of an Apple and it's giving the same nutrition.
If you're trying to make the mod added foods give real values like the vanilla ones, I can't help you there, that's well beyond my skill level,
If you want a simple patch like the CACO patch;
1. Add IMCNisGenericFood to all foods
2. Add a second keyword depending on the food type (IMCNgenericMeatDried, IMCNgenericMeatRaw, IMCNgenericFruit, etc)
3. (Optional) Add IMCNextraTasty/IMCNextraGross to affect appeal
The foods will give a generic amount of nutrition based on a similar vanilla food. So everything with the IMCNgenericMeatCooked will give the same nutrition as Cooked Beef.
Hope that clears a few things up. Let me know if I can be of help.
Also, multiple keywords. As an example, SAFO adds Histcarp Stew, which I tagged as generic food, generic stew, and generic fish (cooked). I checked beef stew (vanilla) vs wolf stew (which I gave meat, stew and food tags), and got equivalent nutrition, but I'm not sure if that'll be true for all cases. The concern I have is accidentally inflating the value of these foods by stacking tags.
I've made a simple patch and tested it in game, and nothing seems incredibly broken as of now. SAFO lets kahjiit, argonians and (I think) bosmer eat raw meat without penalty, while ICMN doesn't care, but that's something for another day. Mator's Automation Tools made it less of a slog, though I never figured out the syntax to programmatically make the records I wanted (I would instead manually set up the keywords for one food, and copy those onto all similar foods).
Multiple keywords don't work, it'll only take one keyword. I think it takes the keyword with the highest nutritional value but I'm not sure. I got creative with the stews, I found the value way to low for stews with multiple ingredient so I would give them keywords better than stew like fishCooked or fowlCooked.
Quick suggestion off the top of my head, I haven't checked if it would work but for the raw meat I would put all the raw meats in a formList and the appropriate races in another formList. Then attach a script to the food poisoning effect. The script would check if the magic effects' source is on the meat list and the target is on the race list. If both are true, clear the food poisoning effect.
I have no experience with Mator's Automation Tools, I've been using the "Skyrim: Add a keyword..." script in SSEEdit. You can run it on all the foods for IMCNisGenericFood then seperately on each group of food for the second keyword.
The method I think I've settled on is a copy of SAFO's. I've added conditions to salmonella that should make it only apply correctly: there's four conditions comparing 0 to GetIsRace Argonian/Khajiit/Orc/Wood Elf. If I understand correctly, that means the magic effect will apply only if the target is not one of those races, but I'll have to test it in game. I'd rather avoid scripting, because I don't know the language and more know of the tools than actually know them.
I wouldn't have guessed SSEEdit would come with a script to do what I wanted, but that's my fault. I knew of Automation Tools because one patcher or another required them, so I already had them installed. I'll be using Add a Keyword for the rest of this.
This is the most involved patch I've done, so I greatly appreciate you helping me figure things out.
No problem, happy to help.