Not sure if the mod is fully working. I made sure to load this after the regular Blade and Blunt so it overwrites it. Seemed like it worked since my attack speed is faster now, but my stamina still drains when I am sneaking. I chose the immortal enemies version btw.
Hello DaggerfallHero, It sounds like a conflict, most likely a script conflict, to find that you will have to locate any mods in your modlist that may effect this and try temporary disabling them and test, if that is it you will have to alter your load order or pick the one you want more. Also worth checking is load up your entire load order in xEdit and check for conflicts with MAG_SneakStaminaDrainEffect01 in the magic effects section of B&B Mortal Advantages (I assume there will be no conflict here but worth checking)Additionally a few easy ways to see if the other parts are working for you is, attack an enemy as they are drawing a bow, if they stagger it is working, and test without this mod isstalled and see how the jumping staminadrain and in combat sprint drain is compared to when you have this installed. These all should give you an idea to know if it is working/if there is some kind of conflict.
Hey, just wanted to follow up. Turns out the issue was totally on my end! I didn’t realize the version I downloaded required the paid AE content, and I only have the free update. Sorry for the confusion, I should’ve caught that. The mod is working now, but it seems like the walking speed animation for my character and all NPCs has sped up for some reason. It looks like we’re all in a rush. Is that intentional? If so, is there a way to revert this? It only happens when I have this mod enabled.
Edit: I seem to have fixed it myself in SSEEdit by going to Movement Type: NPC Default, then changing the values of Forward Walk from 140 back to the vanilla value of 80. Not sure if this was an intentional change for the mod.
Glad it has been resolved and yes the walk speeds are increased, as in combat walking is used while attacking, I suppose I am used to the speed change but your comment made me think about making an alternate version. Well if you have any other issues or suggestions let me know.
For some reason the increased sprint cost outside of combat seems to be doing the opposite as I can sprint pretty much forever. It's like it's draining the increased amount but not applying the the base stamina drain. Aside from this mod, base B&B and the mods linked in the description I don't have anything else that should be affecting movement/the player.
I tried installing the NRE version to see if that would fix it but it seems to still require the CC content as masters.
Hello, so it may be working as intended, I can't say for sure but it is supposed to allow you to sprint for a long time (outside of combat) even at lower levels with no buffs and once you have reached higher levels, and use some stamina regen buffs you can possibly run without losing stamina at all (kind of an earned reward). So if that sounds like your experience then I would say it is as intended. On a side note, I wanted some stamina drain but people IRL can run a few hundred miles in those ultra marathons, I thought it silly to have the legenday dragoborn get tired after sprinting across a field, but wanted to show progression as the PC levels. If your issues persist or you have any suggestions let me know.
About the NRE version I must have forgot to clean the masters on my last upload I will re-upload shortly, thank you for mentioning that.
No, as the description says it: A small amount of stamina drain when sprinting outside of combat is added and reduced stamina drain for sprinting in combat.
It reduces stamina drain for in combat sprint and adds a small amount outside of combat both for the player. For horses it is removed.
Yep you are correct. It is very small drain so I guess I didn't notice. You know there is a bug in BNB that if you equip weapon on horse, there is not stamina drain. For those who just wish to remove that, just equip a weapon on horse.
The stamina drain is meant to be minimal so as you level and/or use food/potions it will not really effect you at all. If you have any balance suggestions let me know, I still have a few ideas or alternate versions I may make. And I did not know about that bug, I actually use a mounted combat mod also, that way I can shoot arrows and fireballs while riding my mount so possibly that stopped it or I just didnt notice.
I'm not sure whether this mod is for me or not. I have read all of the changes mentioned in the description page, but I still can't imagine how exactly my combat will feel like after installing this mod
You could always keep a sve file backed up and test it, if you don't like it revert back to it. If you want more methodical combat and like all the balance of original B&B I would say stick to that. If you want faster paced more high stakes momentum based combat with the additions mentioned I would say give B&B MA a try. With ME and NRE versions being a little closer to the original mod and IE being the fastest paced version.
Greetings, Mr. LKevinMJ, No new save is needed and other than the warning of chanings ESPs mid save I think it should be safe, make sure to keep a backup save just in case, but the only difference between the 2 is the ESP name and the NPC stats.
Thank you for this mod! I've been looking for a friendlier B&B patch/edit and this is what made me enjoy a faster paced combat without having to micromanage everything while still keeping things challenging with appropriate difficulty modifiers & levelled lists.
I have a silly question though, do I still need Mortal Enemies SE or is this all inclusive of what Mortal Enemies are already doing? Sorry, my comprehension of the mod description is a bit lacking.
You're welcome and thank you also, and no you do not need Mortal Enemies if you are using the ME version, it has the same edits already, however I would ask that you endorse Mortal Enemies if you like this mod. Also, if by chance you have any mods that change a mobs/NPCs stats or abilities you want to load them after this mod (Advantages), you will still get all this mod offers while retaining the new NPC edits. Finally if you have any suggestions or ideas for this mod let me know.
May I know if this is somehow in conflict with the Exhaustion / Exercise mod? I notice I havent been getting injuries and my magicka/stamina regens even when under exhaustion. I figured quite alot of may have quite similar mods in their list.
Edit: After re-reading the Exhaustion mod page, my enchantment from armor and constantly eating foods from the SimonRim cooking overhaul may have allowed me to continue regenerate mana and stam pools even when exhausted. No injuries even when I'm being whacked most of the time seems a bit weird still though.
I checked in xEdit and there are no conflicts with either mods records (Exhaustion or Exercise). This mod only has 3 scripts, for blocking, interrupting and for basic attack stamina use. A few things, if you are loading Exhaustion and Exercise before BBMA try loading it after (should not matter but worth a try), and how do Exhaustion and Exercise normally work with Blade and Blunt? Is it only when BBMA is added that E/E are not working correctly? Finally about the injuries I see E&E adds injuries, B&B and Starfrost already has It's own injury system, do the injuries work normally with E&E and B&B? And are you using Starfrost and SF injuries? I have not yet used E&E, I was considering it but with the current injury system of B&B and SF I held off.
Apologies for the late reply! I was busy past few days.
I don't use Starforst and SF Injuries at all. It was quite a while ago but I had B&B and E&E together and I had injuries.
I think that right now I don't normally fall into mortal danger anymore so I don't see it anymore. iirc E&E introduces stat burn when you keep losing HP, MP, Stamina. Not sure if that actually conflicts with injury
This is from B&B page: "Blade and Blunt adds an injury system to Skyrim. When you fall below 50% Health, incoming attacks will have a 10% chance to injure you. When you fall below 25% Health, this chance will increase to 25%. Blocking or casting a ward cuts your injury chance in half, no matter what your Health threshold is. "
B&B actually is a lower load order then E&E so I guess partly the reason why I don't get stat burn anymore is because the mechanics of B&B is overwriting Exhaustion's.
I think I'll tinker on the MCM after I fix some of my current modlist to see if I can do a best of both worlds!
You're good, I hope you can get that figured out, sounds like a interesting/realistic combo. I will give it another look, I assume it is something with the scripting, if you find a fix let me know as I am considering adding E&E for my next playthrough. Cheers!
I have returned from the ashes of modding and have my final modlist now. After a few hours of intensive testing the modules between B&B, BBMA and E&E. Safe to say here's my findings:
B&B still working as intended. All the mechanics from the mod and yours are active. I believe me not getting injuries relates to me playing defensively and I heal... quite often.
E&E is also working as intended. However, I had to adjust the exhaustion rate for each resources (my own headcanon RP preference where Health and Magicka takes more damage from Exhaustion than Stamina) to make it more realistic when paired with B&B and in extension, your version that changes how stamina is used in combat and out of combat.
There is a small bug in the exhaustion mod that the most recent comment has posted about adjustment to resources from enchanted equipments. It's a bit technical and I'm not very knowledgeable in their console data talk but I can follow it mostly. I also put in a reply for an itty bitty concern I have as a mage player.
All in all, I'm happy with this combination! It makes the zero to hero playthrough so much more immersive (and not too realistic with your mod haha still need a bit of fantasy in a game, not real life simulator). I do also have these that really creates a fun playthrough: Experience, Geometric Stat Growth and Static Skill Leveling Rewritten.
I think one feedback, not very scary, is that I think a small stamina use (not as punishing as original B&B) during sneaking might be fun. Helps reduce sneaking through a whole dungeon and falling back to the stealth archer gameplay lol. A warrior and thief build wouldn't care due to their larger stamina pool but mage players will have to think ahead which forces them to use muffle when low stamina and only crouch to use magic sneak attacks from the silent casting perk. With bound bow and the no sneak stamina cost, I'm practically invincible!
Reasonably from textbook builds with the combi of BB,BBMA,E&E:
Warrior builds will gain their stats growth from bonking and tanking
Thief builds relying on bow will gain their growth from sneaking and archery
Mage builds will have to rely on big brain magic use so the continous drain of magicka helps grow their main pool from exhaustion, the above feedback also helps mages build their stamina from sneaking on top of melee combat (spellblade conjurers hooray!)
Apologies for the long write and thank you for your time!
Wow, thank you for the breakdown! I had been looking at most of the mods you mentioned in addition but didn’t use them due to not knowing how they would interact, this gives me insight that I lacked, thank you. A note you may already know, B&B gives a chance at injury when taking certain amounts of damage so possibly you have been fortunate not to receive many injuries, and respect to your play style, if the player does not have to at minimum take that approach somewhat I feel the game is not hard enough. With this mod finding the right balance of danger, fast combat and real-ish tactics has been the goal, I suppose a lot depends on the players skill and style, but it’s not easy to find that perfect balance, I will continue to still.
Which leads me to you suggestion on sneak stamina, I think you have a good idea in re-introducing it, I will test it for the next release, working on a number of mods right now while I mod and test/play. I also like you ideas on exhaustion, as taking damage would tire one out more than anything. I am going to reference this post a few times and give some thought to balance/tweaking. Also I opened the Exhaustion comments page and am going to read it after this. Overall it sounds like you have a really interesting and technical mod combo, I think I am going to install most of those and give it a go, I have some mod that conflicts with Experience and Uncappers can’t remember what mod tho… Again thank you for the reply and the detailed content within, any suggestions you ever have please let me know, I like and respect your insight. Cheers and enjoy your time in Tamriel!
I'm using your mod and I am wondering if you recommend using SkyValor at the same time? Because I'm finding that my attack damage seems to be a bit too high.
Also, I'm trying to build my own modlist based on vanilla combat moveset, but have a lot of concerns about combat balance. Can you briefly describe what combat mods you use?
Thank you and I was looking at SkyValor and while I have not used it it should be compatible with BBMA and touch things BBMA does not, if you want what it offers it should be a good addition. There are multiple version, with 2 having different race edits and 1 having no race edits. Other than that this mod focuses on combat mechanic changes as listed in the description. The only times you would get increased damage output is when getting the critical hits due to attack advantage/attacks of opportunity, otherwise it does not effect damage output.
Personally I use all of Simonrim w/ H2H, the next version of BBMA (I am testing before release that also changes combat styles), SkyTactics Dynamic Combat Styles, Parry RPG, NPC Spell Variance - Spell Variety AI with addons, Enemies take cover, wait your turn, realistic AI dectection, poision blocking using shields and wards (to be added to this mod in the future, you can use it now with Synthesis Patcher), archery rebalance and a ton of gear, magic and mob mods. On survival mode to help realisim and injuires in Starfrost. No animation mods other than mounted casting and TK dodge NG.
My advice would be lots of testing, I have spent about 2 months testing this particular modlist I made adding and removing mods, making sure they worked with my setup and had the balance I want. Patching and editing. This on top of years playing TES and Skyrim finding what I liked and what I didn't. Also if you don;t have any CK and xEdit skills it is orth learning some basics to tweak and patch your personal modlist for the best experience, just know that they are not as hard to use as it seems initially. Edit - wow nice mod catalog you have, going to look through your mods now.
I hope this helps, can take a lot of work getting everything working smoothly, just be selective and make sure the mods you are using are stable. I use 1,200 plugins, about 20+ hours in with a single crash that was my fault, since I removed the conflicting mod no crashes. Some peop[le run many more than that smoothly.
Thank you so much for the incredibly detailed response and for sharing your expertise! I really appreciate you taking the time to explain compatibility with SkyValor, your modlist setup.
And I’m honored you’re checking out my mods too—feel free to share any feedback if you do! Keep up the amazing work with BBMA’s development, and best of luck with the upcoming update. Cheers! 🍻
Thank you for your kind words and interest. Your mods Low Level Enemy Enhance and Dynamic Scaling Level Attribute sound like good options for enemy balancing, particulalrly useful for heavily modded set ups, nice work, best to you and cheers!
Will the latest updates be coming to the non-IE versions? I've been finding it frustrating to deal with archers - especially multiple archers - and think the interruption in 1.8 might be what I want to balance my game.
Yes I will get them released today, and I had the same with archers, the interruption really rewards you for closing the distance, it adds some urgency and payoff.
It should work fine mid-game, I don;t really know the proper way to do so but when I do I create a backup just in case. Also thank you, I enjoy using it and wanted to make it as fun as possible for myself and the community.
I actually have that mod installed, but have not put a lot play time in with it. It is fully compatible, it makes changes to B&B mostly, the only conflict is with NPC blocking time. If you want NPCs to hold longer blocks load it after Mortal Advantage, if you want shorter block or no block holding load Modern COmbat between B&B and MA. This is the load order I use B&B, MC AI, B&B MA (IE version) also if you lie MC AI I would reccomend IE version of this mod, it fits more the fast and deadly combat style. In a future update I plan to add things similar to Modern Combat AI.
Typo, meant to say... if also if you like Modern Combat AI, as in if you are going to use it IE version of this mod goes best with what it (Modern Combat AI) changes in B&B.
A right yes iam using the most difficult version of Blade and Blunt Mortal Advantages and 2.0 Modern Combat. Loading Order B&B, B&BMA, Modern Combat AI 2.0
While I have never used that mod to say for sure, I just downloaded it and looked, there shouldn't be any problem if you want what both mods offer. You may get some high damage output due to AA doubling the critical damage number For example you would get 100% regular dmg, 100% (50% normally) critical dmg + say 8-14% from my mod. I don't personally think that is problematic, just going to have very lethal archery. Also arrow gravity is increased, not sure how those values effect distance shooting, you may have to aim above your target more than normal at long distance. If you choose to use them both let me know how they play.
61 comments
Edit: I seem to have fixed it myself in SSEEdit by going to Movement Type: NPC Default, then changing the values of Forward Walk from 140 back to the vanilla value of 80. Not sure if this was an intentional change for the mod.
For some reason the increased sprint cost outside of combat seems to be doing the opposite as I can sprint pretty much forever. It's like it's draining the increased amount but not applying the the base stamina drain. Aside from this mod, base B&B and the mods linked in the description I don't have anything else that should be affecting movement/the player.
I tried installing the NRE version to see if that would fix it but it seems to still require the CC content as masters.
About the NRE version I must have forgot to clean the masters on my last upload I will re-upload shortly, thank you for mentioning that.
It reduces stamina drain for in combat sprint and adds a small amount outside of combat both for the player. For horses it is removed.
Do I need a new save when upgrading from 1.9 to 2.0 and whether IE or ME is interchangeable? :)
I have a silly question though, do I still need Mortal Enemies SE or is this all inclusive of what Mortal Enemies are already doing? Sorry, my comprehension of the mod description is a bit lacking.
May I know if this is somehow in conflict with the Exhaustion / Exercise mod? I notice I havent been getting injuries and my magicka/stamina regens even when under exhaustion. I figured quite alot of may have quite similar mods in their list.
Edit: After re-reading the Exhaustion mod page, my enchantment from armor and constantly eating foods from the SimonRim cooking overhaul may have allowed me to continue regenerate mana and stam pools even when exhausted. No injuries even when I'm being whacked most of the time seems a bit weird still though.
I don't use Starforst and SF Injuries at all. It was quite a while ago but I had B&B and E&E together and I had injuries.
I think that right now I don't normally fall into mortal danger anymore so I don't see it anymore. iirc E&E introduces stat burn when you keep losing HP, MP, Stamina. Not sure if that actually conflicts with injury
This is from B&B page: "Blade and Blunt adds an injury system to Skyrim. When you fall below 50% Health, incoming attacks will have a 10% chance to injure you. When you fall below 25% Health, this chance will increase to 25%. Blocking or casting a ward cuts your injury chance in half, no matter what your Health threshold is. "
B&B actually is a lower load order then E&E so I guess partly the reason why I don't get stat burn anymore is because the mechanics of B&B is overwriting Exhaustion's.
I think I'll tinker on the MCM after I fix some of my current modlist to see if I can do a best of both worlds!
I have returned from the ashes of modding and have my final modlist now. After a few hours of intensive testing the modules between B&B, BBMA and E&E. Safe to say here's my findings:
All in all, I'm happy with this combination! It makes the zero to hero playthrough so much more immersive (and not too realistic with your mod haha still need a bit of fantasy in a game, not real life simulator). I do also have these that really creates a fun playthrough: Experience, Geometric Stat Growth and Static Skill Leveling Rewritten.
I think one feedback, not very scary, is that I think a small stamina use (not as punishing as original B&B) during sneaking might be fun. Helps reduce sneaking through a whole dungeon and falling back to the stealth archer gameplay lol. A warrior and thief build wouldn't care due to their larger stamina pool but mage players will have to think ahead which forces them to use muffle when low stamina and only crouch to use magic sneak attacks from the silent casting perk. With bound bow and the no sneak stamina cost, I'm practically invincible!
Reasonably from textbook builds with the combi of BB,BBMA,E&E:
Apologies for the long write and thank you for your time!
Wow, thank you for the breakdown! I had been looking at most of the mods you mentioned in addition but didn’t use them due to not knowing how they would interact, this gives me insight that I lacked, thank you. A note you may already know, B&B gives a chance at injury when taking certain amounts of damage so possibly you have been fortunate not to receive many injuries, and respect to your play style, if the player does not have to at minimum take that approach somewhat I feel the game is not hard enough. With this mod finding the right balance of danger, fast combat and real-ish tactics has been the goal, I suppose a lot depends on the players skill and style, but it’s not easy to find that perfect balance, I will continue to still.
Which leads me to you suggestion on sneak stamina, I think you have a good idea in re-introducing it, I will test it for the next release, working on a number of mods right now while I mod and test/play. I also like you ideas on exhaustion, as taking damage would tire one out more than anything. I am going to reference this post a few times and give some thought to balance/tweaking. Also I opened the Exhaustion comments page and am going to read it after this. Overall it sounds like you have a really interesting and technical mod combo, I think I am going to install most of those and give it a go, I have some mod that conflicts with Experience and Uncappers can’t remember what mod tho… Again thank you for the reply and the detailed content within, any suggestions you ever have please let me know, I like and respect your insight. Cheers and enjoy your time in Tamriel!
I'm using your mod and I am wondering if you recommend using SkyValor at the same time? Because I'm finding that my attack damage seems to be a bit too high.
Also, I'm trying to build my own modlist based on vanilla combat moveset, but have a lot of concerns about combat balance. Can you briefly describe what combat mods you use?
Personally I use all of Simonrim w/ H2H, the next version of BBMA (I am testing before release that also changes combat styles), SkyTactics Dynamic Combat Styles, Parry RPG, NPC Spell Variance - Spell Variety AI with addons, Enemies take cover, wait your turn, realistic AI dectection, poision blocking using shields and wards (to be added to this mod in the future, you can use it now with Synthesis Patcher), archery rebalance and a ton of gear, magic and mob mods. On survival mode to help realisim and injuires in Starfrost. No animation mods other than mounted casting and TK dodge NG.
My advice would be lots of testing, I have spent about 2 months testing this particular modlist I made adding and removing mods, making sure they worked with my setup and had the balance I want. Patching and editing. This on top of years playing TES and Skyrim finding what I liked and what I didn't. Also if you don;t have any CK and xEdit skills it is orth learning some basics to tweak and patch your personal modlist for the best experience, just know that they are not as hard to use as it seems initially. Edit - wow nice mod catalog you have, going to look through your mods now.
I hope this helps, can take a lot of work getting everything working smoothly, just be selective and make sure the mods you are using are stable. I use 1,200 plugins, about 20+ hours in with a single crash that was my fault, since I removed the conflicting mod no crashes. Some peop[le run many more than that smoothly.
And I’m honored you’re checking out my mods too—feel free to share any feedback if you do! Keep up the amazing work with BBMA’s development, and best of luck with the upcoming update. Cheers! 🍻
I've been finding it frustrating to deal with archers - especially multiple archers - and think the interruption in 1.8 might be what I want to balance my game.
I mean the behavior of the enemies.
Btw works perfect in midgame.
Loading Order B&B, B&BMA, Modern Combat AI 2.0
Archery Rebalance
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/77860?tab=description