#1 ON THE HOT FILES It took less than 12 hours for this mod to make the hot files and eventually finished at the top spot. The success shows that NeusKharp did a tremendous job when he originally created this mod for Oldrim several years ago. It remains one of the best NPC replacer mods out there.
*************************************************** DO NOT REFRESH FACEGENDATA FOR THIS MOD This mod contains it's own facegendata. Opening this mod in the Creation Kit can rebuild this data and cause major issues such as crashes. If this happens simply reinstall the mod.
*************************************************** REMOVING NPCS FROM THIS MOD In the Forum for this mod you'll find a very detailed post from user GUIDEBO that was originally posted on the original The Ordinary Women mod site. It provides detailed instructions on how to remove a NPC from this mod using SSE Edit.
*************************************************** PATCHES AND OTHER VERSIONS OF THIS MOD Check the Requirements on the Description Tab for patches or other mods requiring this mod.
MY LOAD ORDER FOR NPC REPLACERS You can use multiple NPC replacer mods changing the same NPCs. For example, I have four mods changing Lisette but the one that appears in game in the one that loads last. Using Mod Organizer 2 makes doing this much easier but it can still be done with other mod managers or even manual installations.
11/2/2020 UPDATE - Below was my load order at one time but is not currently up to date. I always seem to tweak my load order as new mods come out or I decided I want something different. The point is to show how you can use any number of different NPC replacers even if they change some of the same NPCs As long as your load order is correct they will play nicely with each other.
1. The Men of Winter - mod# 10902 - Changes about 30 men 2. Males of Skyrim - Oldrim mod# 61937 – Changes 25 males. Many overlap with Men of Winter. Flip the order if you prefer Men of Winter. 3. Botox for SSE - mod# 16533 - changes every female in the game. I use the KSHair version which is not available on the Nexus right now. 4. Women’s Faces - mod# 5630 – Changes over 300 females 5. Ordinary Women - mod# 12376 – Changes 60 females. Several overlaps with Pandorable NPCs. 6. Improved Bards - mod# 7956 – Changes about 17 males and females. 7. Seductress Serana - Oldrim# 52907 - I converted this myself to Special Edition. Also modifies Valerica and Harkon. 8. Pandorable NPCs - mod# 19012 - Changes about 70 females. Flip the order if you prefer Ordinary Women. 9. Pandorable NPCs - Dawnguard - mod# 24135 - Changes about 28 characters from Dawnguard. 10. Pandorable NPCs - Dragonborn - mod# 30680 - Changes 40 characters from Dragonborn. 11. Bijin NPCs - mod# 11287 - deactivate the .esp but you need the meshes and textures. 12. Bijin Warmaidens - mod# 1825 - deactivate the .esp but you need the meshes and textures. 13. Bijin Wives - mod# 11247 - deactivate the .esp but you need the meshes and textures. 14. Bijin All In One 2019 - mod# 11 - Allows you to deactivate the other three Bijin .esp files and adds lots of fixes. 15. Bijin - Your Bodyslide Mesh and Texture - mod# 16399 - Does what it says. I use SG body textures. 16. Lynly Star-Sung Renewal - mod# 23765 - Nice replacer for Lynly Star-Sung. Mod#23777 uses this same model as a follower or Serana replacer. 17. Cynthis as Elisif SE - mod# 10764 - I've tried all of the Elisif replacers and I keep coming back to this one. 18. The Kids Are Alright - mod# 9175 - I recently switched to the Episode One version because the other version adds a few too many new kids.
Note 1: Males of Skyrim and Seductress Serana have not been officially converted to SE but I have done so for my personal use. I have contacted the authors about publishing them but have not heard back. Note 2: Botox conflicts with Women's Faces and causes those NPCs to have black faces and no hair. To prevent this you need to unpack the Women's Faces .bsa file. You can use the Bethesda Archive Extractor (mod #974) to do this. Note 3: The KS Hairs version of Botox was on the Nexus at one time but is no longer available but the Botox author states he is working on it. However, the oldrim version works great if you convert it yourself. Note 4: I've tried ALL of the Serana replacers and I keep coming back this one. Recently moved the order so I can let Pandorable's Harkon overwrite this one. Note 5: You may have conflicts with other attributes of NPCs. For example, Cutting Room Floor may add an item to an NPCs inventory that isn't carried over by these mods. Another example is not all of these mods (such as Women's Faces) have USSEP changes. Most of these types of changes are not game changing but you can use SSE Edit to manually make the changes. Note 6: I noticed that with Vivid Weathers brown eyes sometimes look more yellow (yuck!). I manually changed the eye color for a few ladies (Adrianne, Carlotta, Aela, etc) to blue or green which looks much better. It's easy to switch out eye textures. Note 8: If you use Shiva's Vanilla Hair Replacer SE (mod# 7922) you'll have crashes and black face with Saadia and perhaps other ladies from this mod. It has to do with how Shiva makes it's changes. If you want to use both you need to remove Saadia from this mod. You can find instructions in the Forum of this mod.
Question: Why do I use so many different replacers? Because it adds a complex variety that one or two mods can't provide.
******* PLEASE FOLLOW THESE TROUBLESHOOTING STEPS BEFORE POSTING ABOUT BLACK FACES AND CRASHES *******
CRASHES - Game crashes involving mods like this one are caused by mesh issues. It could be a mesh that is not updated correctly (this mod's meshes are correctly updated) or missing mesh. See point #5 below for how that can happen with this mod. It can also be caused by a load order issue. The steps below specifically address the black face issue but can also be used to address game crashes from this mod.
BLACK FACE ISSUES – Tthis mod is setup correctly and will not cause black faces on its own. There’s nothing wrong with how this mod is created or with its files.
Black faces on NPCs are caused when meshes and textures for an NPC does not match what the game is expecting. This usually means there are multiple mods attempting to make changes to the same NPC but things are not in the correct order. You can have a hundred mods changing the same NPC and have it work correctly as long as the mods are in the correct order. There are several possible causes listed below with steps to take to resolve issues.
1. Load Order - This is BY FAR the most likely cause. If using Mod Organizer, the files in the left window on the right should match the order of plugins on the right window. If using a patch such as Qwinn's The Ordinary Women/CRF, it should come after this mod but before any other mod that affects the same NPCs. The quickest way to resolve this is to move this mod and its files to last in your load order. You can also simply deactivate other mods one by one until you find the confliction. Then move this mod after that one. This process is slow but can be used to figure out any mod conflict you’re dealing with. The absolute best answer is using SSE Edit. It will quickly tell you exactly which mods are conflicting and what exactly is conflicting. It is by far most accurate way to determine a load order issue. You can also sometimes resolve those conflicts manually to maintain the load order that you want.
2. BSA Files - This is actually a load order issue but in a different way. BSA files are always loaded before any loose files. Therefore, even if you have your load order correct, the loading of the BSA files before any loose files can cause black faces. I recommend unpacking BSA files for NPC replacer mods such as Women’s Faces. You can use the Bethesda Archive Extractor (mod #974) to do this. It's a very small application and unpacks the .bsa in about 10 seconds. Once you're unpacked the .bsa be sure to delete it and only use the loose files
3. Mod unknowingly affecting NPCs. - Again, this is really a load order issue. You would be surprised by mods that attempt to change NPCs that you are unaware of. Mods like Cutting Room Floor, Holds – City Overhaul, Mors Feminine Females, Consistent Older People, Immersive College of Winterhold, etc … will attempt to change some NPCs back to vanilla and cause black faces. The trick is to load this mods before your NPC replacer mods. The NPCs won’t get the changes that these other mods are trying to add (such as new clothes or inventory items) but you can use SSE Edit to manually add those changes.
4. Bad files - It’s rare but somethings weird things happen and you simply need to reinstall. This can be especially useful if you are manually installing mods since files can be overwritten by other mods.
5. Missing Files - If you installed the USSEP patch for this mod, make sure you didn’t accidentally delete the meshes and textures from the original mod.
UPDATE: If you use Shiva's Vanilla Hair Replacer SE (mod# 7922) you'll have crashes and black face with Saadia and perhaps other ladies from this mod. It has to do with how Shiva makes it's changes. If you want to use both you need to remove Saadia from this mod. You can find instructions in the Forum of this mod.
ISSUES IN WHITERUN / SAAIDA Crashes are usually caused by mesh issues. In Whiterun usually the issue is Saadia though it could be anyone. Saadia is setup a little different than other NPCs for some reason. The first fix is to always make sure the order of esps matches the order of meshes/textures. Having these out of order is usually the issue. The problem with Saadia is so many other mods make changes to her that people don't realize. Cutting Room Floor, Holds, various patches (such as Qwinn's Ordinary Women) patches, etc ... they touch Saadia and require this mod to load after those.
The only time that I know that someone was unable to have another mod work with this one is Shiva's Vanilla Hair Replacer. It makes a unique change to Saadia and that one user was unable to get them to work together. There's a note about it in the sticky above. Other than that, we've always found an answer to crashes and it's always load order. If you do find that it's Saadia or someone else from this mod you can find instructions on how to remove NPCs in the forum tab.
******* PLEASE FOLLOW THESE TROUBLESHOOTING STEPS BEFORE POSTING ABOUT BLACK FACES *******
By following the steps above you should be able to find the answer yourself or at least narrow down the possibilities. Then you can post much more specific questions and get a resolution more quickly. As a last resort, you can private message me a copy of your load order. Often I can quickly spot the issue or at least put you in the right direction.
I've never encountered this problem before but it only works when I'm not using the ussep version. I like it better when I'm installing this mod with the ussep version because the face mesh looks a lot cleaner and better somehow as compared to the non ussep version. I really don't understand what happened but I assume it has something to do with the recent update of the ussep. It's not only this mod that causes my game to crash but also other mods like children overhaul and some mods but I guess the real problem has something to do with the USSEP though I'm hoping there would be a solution to this.
Does anybody have problems between this mod and mfg fix ? I get CTD the moment I load into Riverwood, and disabling either this mod or mfg fix actually stopped the crashing. Is this really a problem on the mod's end or on my modlist end ? If anyone experienced this before can give me hand will be very appreciated.
I have not experienced that and have not seen anyone else specifically mention those two mods. I don't see how the two could be conflicting with each other. Do you have all of the requirements for MFG? My first thought would be there's something else that one of these mods is conflicting with.
Thanks for replying. Yes, it boggle my mind as well, I can't for the life of me see how the two would conflict, and I do have all the requirements for Mfg fix. So for the moment I think I'm playing without mfg fix on because I already reinstall my modlist just yesterday because of another error and I'm not doing that again ( Funny because yesterday modlist actually work well with Mfg fix + the ordinary women, I didn't change anything, just reinstall, really weird)
I really hate when I put hours and hours into a new load order and 20 hours in I get a major crash. Then I have to fix it and start over because I don't want that crash to lead to other crashes in the future. You may still an issue in your load order and I hope it doesn't cause you more issues later in your game.
After a day of troubleshooting I found that Cutting room floor is the one that cause Ordinary women to crash my game. So clip note: don't use Cutting room floor with Mfg fix and Ordinary Women. (Before you ask I do have every patch installed, this is a brand new issue for me)
Another update: turn out it was not Cutting Room Floor, but an outdated patch between cutting room floor and ordinary women, I think you should remove QUASIPC from the sticky post, it doesn't get update anymore and is causing crash
Another update: turn out it was not Cutting Room Floor, but an outdated patch between cutting room floor and ordinary women, I think you should remove QUASIPC from the sticky post, it doesn't get update anymore and is causing crash
I'm glad you found the issue. That makes a lot more sense than MFG or Cutting Room Floor being the issue. I removed the list of patches and directed folks to Requirements on the Description page.
i was thinking mfg have conflict too because after disable it some times my game dont cdt where before it does but after so much test i found it was a problem with my load order if some one its this stupid like me take care dont put this down of your texture mods of characters and those things ^^"
I use CRF, mfg, High Poly Head and this mod, and they do NOT cause CTD together. Any modder who uses multiple NPC mods is going to have to learn to use Xedit, and custom patch manually. Once you master that you can run 40+ NPC overhaul mods together perfectly stably, I assure you.
Those mods will change all of these same ladies as well. If you load this mod after those other mods, then you'll see the NPC appearances from this mod "win" over the other mods. However, if you load this mod before the other mods, then all of the changes made by this mod will "lose" to the other mods.
Hmmm for some reason all of the npc's affected by this mod have wrinkles of some sort and their skin is also wrinkled. Im pretty sure I'm using BHUNP as a base and that body is usually clear. I'll try to search for skin textures.
Yes, you can. I used to use it that way for a long time. They key is to have the mods, the esps, and all the meshes and textures for each mod in the correct order. You also need all of the patches for each mod in the correct order. Do NOT use Loot to sort your load order. Mod Organizer is the best mod to ensure esps are loading in the correct order that you want.
It should look like this:
Bijin Mods Bijin Patches Ordinary Women Mod Ordinary Women Patches
Hi, I have been encountered the issue that Nirya face is dark, any idea which mod may be conflicting with the mod, I noticed that when I disable cutting room floor, every works amazing with mod, there is no way to use both?
Make sure this mod, and any patches for this mod, loads after Cutting Room Floor. The two mods do work together with no issues as long as the load order is correct.
I've been using this mod in all its iterations for 5 years and I've never had that issue, so it's a problem at your end. Certainly another mod is conflicting (in a bad way) with a particular Windhelm NPC, and when it comes on-screen you CTD.
I have the same problem with mine. CTD at the same exact place too. Turns out it conflicts with Pandorable NPC's Sigrid. Fixed it by either choosing one or the other. Unfortunately had to reinstall Skyrim multiple time before I found out the simple fix to my problem.
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It took less than 12 hours for this mod to make the hot files and eventually finished at the top spot. The success shows that NeusKharp did a tremendous job when he originally created this mod for Oldrim several years ago. It remains one of the best NPC replacer mods out there.
***************************************************
DO NOT REFRESH FACEGENDATA FOR THIS MOD
This mod contains it's own facegendata. Opening this mod in the Creation Kit can rebuild this data and cause major issues such as crashes. If this happens simply reinstall the mod.
***************************************************
REMOVING NPCS FROM THIS MOD
In the Forum for this mod you'll find a very detailed post from user GUIDEBO that was originally posted on the original The Ordinary Women mod site. It provides detailed instructions on how to remove a NPC from this mod using SSE Edit.
***************************************************
PATCHES AND OTHER VERSIONS OF THIS MOD
Check the Requirements on the Description Tab for patches or other mods requiring this mod.
You can use multiple NPC replacer mods changing the same NPCs. For example, I have four mods changing Lisette but the one that appears in game in the one that loads last. Using Mod Organizer 2 makes doing this much easier but it can still be done with other mod managers or even manual installations.
11/2/2020 UPDATE - Below was my load order at one time but is not currently up to date. I always seem to tweak my load order as new mods come out or I decided I want something different. The point is to show how you can use any number of different NPC replacers even if they change some of the same NPCs As long as your load order is correct they will play nicely with each other.
1. The Men of Winter - mod# 10902 - Changes about 30 men
2. Males of Skyrim - Oldrim mod# 61937 – Changes 25 males. Many overlap with Men of Winter. Flip the order if you prefer Men of Winter.
3. Botox for SSE - mod# 16533 - changes every female in the game. I use the KSHair version which is not available on the Nexus right now.
4. Women’s Faces - mod# 5630 – Changes over 300 females
5. Ordinary Women - mod# 12376 – Changes 60 females. Several overlaps with Pandorable NPCs.
6. Improved Bards - mod# 7956 – Changes about 17 males and females.
7. Seductress Serana - Oldrim# 52907 - I converted this myself to Special Edition. Also modifies Valerica and Harkon.
8. Pandorable NPCs - mod# 19012 - Changes about 70 females. Flip the order if you prefer Ordinary Women.
9. Pandorable NPCs - Dawnguard - mod# 24135 - Changes about 28 characters from Dawnguard.
10. Pandorable NPCs - Dragonborn - mod# 30680 - Changes 40 characters from Dragonborn.
11. Bijin NPCs - mod# 11287 - deactivate the .esp but you need the meshes and textures.
12. Bijin Warmaidens - mod# 1825 - deactivate the .esp but you need the meshes and textures.
13. Bijin Wives - mod# 11247 - deactivate the .esp but you need the meshes and textures.
14. Bijin All In One 2019 - mod# 11 - Allows you to deactivate the other three Bijin .esp files and adds lots of fixes.
15. Bijin - Your Bodyslide Mesh and Texture - mod# 16399 - Does what it says. I use SG body textures.
16. Lynly Star-Sung Renewal - mod# 23765 - Nice replacer for Lynly Star-Sung. Mod#23777 uses this same model as a follower or Serana replacer.
17. Cynthis as Elisif SE - mod# 10764 - I've tried all of the Elisif replacers and I keep coming back to this one.
18. The Kids Are Alright - mod# 9175 - I recently switched to the Episode One version because the other version adds a few too many new kids.
Note 1: Males of Skyrim and Seductress Serana have not been officially converted to SE but I have done so for my personal use. I have contacted the authors about publishing them but have not heard back.
Note 2: Botox conflicts with Women's Faces and causes those NPCs to have black faces and no hair. To prevent this you need to unpack the Women's Faces .bsa file. You can use the Bethesda Archive Extractor (mod #974) to do this.
Note 3: The KS Hairs version of Botox was on the Nexus at one time but is no longer available but the Botox author states he is working on it. However, the oldrim version works great if you convert it yourself.
Note 4: I've tried ALL of the Serana replacers and I keep coming back this one. Recently moved the order so I can let Pandorable's Harkon overwrite this one.
Note 5: You may have conflicts with other attributes of NPCs. For example, Cutting Room Floor may add an item to an NPCs inventory that isn't carried over by these mods. Another example is not all of these mods (such as Women's Faces) have USSEP changes. Most of these types of changes are not game changing but you can use SSE Edit to manually make the changes.
Note 6: I noticed that with Vivid Weathers brown eyes sometimes look more yellow (yuck!). I manually changed the eye color for a few ladies (Adrianne, Carlotta, Aela, etc) to blue or green which looks much better. It's easy to switch out eye textures.
Note 8: If you use Shiva's Vanilla Hair Replacer SE (mod# 7922) you'll have crashes and black face with Saadia and perhaps other ladies from this mod. It has to do with how Shiva makes it's changes. If you want to use both you need to remove Saadia from this mod. You can find instructions in the Forum of this mod.
Question: Why do I use so many different replacers? Because it adds a complex variety that one or two mods can't provide.
******* PLEASE FOLLOW THESE TROUBLESHOOTING STEPS BEFORE POSTING ABOUT BLACK FACES AND CRASHES *******
CRASHES - Game crashes involving mods like this one are caused by mesh issues. It could be a mesh that is not updated correctly (this mod's meshes are correctly updated) or missing mesh. See point #5 below for how that can happen with this mod. It can also be caused by a load order issue. The steps below specifically address the black face issue but can also be used to address game crashes from this mod.
BLACK FACE ISSUES – Tthis mod is setup correctly and will not cause black faces on its own. There’s nothing wrong with how this mod is created or with its files.
Black faces on NPCs are caused when meshes and textures for an NPC does not match what the game is expecting. This usually means there are multiple mods attempting to make changes to the same NPC but things are not in the correct order. You can have a hundred mods changing the same NPC and have it work correctly as long as the mods are in the correct order. There are several possible causes listed below with steps to take to resolve issues.
1. Load Order - This is BY FAR the most likely cause. If using Mod Organizer, the files in the left window on the right should match the order of plugins on the right window. If using a patch such as Qwinn's The Ordinary Women/CRF, it should come after this mod but before any other mod that affects the same NPCs. The quickest way to resolve this is to move this mod and its files to last in your load order. You can also simply deactivate other mods one by one until you find the confliction. Then move this mod after that one. This process is slow but can be used to figure out any mod conflict you’re dealing with. The absolute best answer is using SSE Edit. It will quickly tell you exactly which mods are conflicting and what exactly is conflicting. It is by far most accurate way to determine a load order issue. You can also sometimes resolve those conflicts manually to maintain the load order that you want.
2. BSA Files - This is actually a load order issue but in a different way. BSA files are always loaded before any loose files. Therefore, even if you have your load order correct, the loading of the BSA files before any loose files can cause black faces. I recommend unpacking BSA files for NPC replacer mods such as Women’s Faces. You can use the Bethesda Archive Extractor (mod #974) to do this. It's a very small application and unpacks the .bsa in about 10 seconds. Once you're unpacked the .bsa be sure to delete it and only use the loose files
3. Mod unknowingly affecting NPCs. - Again, this is really a load order issue. You would be surprised by mods that attempt to change NPCs that you are unaware of. Mods like Cutting Room Floor, Holds – City Overhaul, Mors Feminine Females, Consistent Older People, Immersive College of Winterhold, etc … will attempt to change some NPCs back to vanilla and cause black faces. The trick is to load this mods before your NPC replacer mods. The NPCs won’t get the changes that these other mods are trying to add (such as new clothes or inventory items) but you can use SSE Edit to manually add those changes.
4. Bad files - It’s rare but somethings weird things happen and you simply need to reinstall. This can be especially useful if you are manually installing mods since files can be overwritten by other mods.
5. Missing Files - If you installed the USSEP patch for this mod, make sure you didn’t accidentally delete the meshes and textures from the original mod.
UPDATE: If you use Shiva's Vanilla Hair Replacer SE (mod# 7922) you'll have crashes and black face with Saadia and perhaps other ladies from this mod. It has to do with how Shiva makes it's changes. If you want to use both you need to remove Saadia from this mod. You can find instructions in the Forum of this mod.
ISSUES IN WHITERUN / SAAIDA
Crashes are usually caused by mesh issues. In Whiterun usually the issue is Saadia though it could be anyone. Saadia is setup a little different than other NPCs for some reason. The first fix is to always make sure the order of esps matches the order of meshes/textures. Having these out of order is usually the issue. The problem with Saadia is so many other mods make changes to her that people don't realize. Cutting Room Floor, Holds, various patches (such as Qwinn's Ordinary Women) patches, etc ... they touch Saadia and require this mod to load after those.
The only time that I know that someone was unable to have another mod work with this one is Shiva's Vanilla Hair Replacer. It makes a unique change to Saadia and that one user was unable to get them to work together. There's a note about it in the sticky above. Other than that, we've always found an answer to crashes and it's always load order. If you do find that it's Saadia or someone else from this mod you can find instructions on how to remove NPCs in the forum tab.
******* PLEASE FOLLOW THESE TROUBLESHOOTING STEPS BEFORE POSTING ABOUT BLACK FACES *******
By following the steps above you should be able to find the answer yourself or at least narrow down the possibilities. Then you can post much more specific questions and get a resolution more quickly. As a last resort, you can private message me a copy of your load order. Often I can quickly spot the issue or at least put you in the right direction.
I like it better when I'm installing this mod with the ussep version because the face mesh looks a lot cleaner and better somehow as compared to the non ussep version.
I really don't understand what happened but I assume it has something to do with the recent update of the ussep. It's not only this mod that causes my game to crash but also other mods like children overhaul and some mods but I guess the real problem has something to do with the USSEP though I'm hoping there would be a solution to this.
Do u have High poly heads installed?
Min. 9 years and never get over lvl 20 DDD ..
lollll
It should look like this:
Bijin Mods
Bijin Patches
Ordinary Women Mod
Ordinary Women Patches
oooo shttttttt