You write this mod conflict without Bashed Patch etc. Can I know with which ones for example? Cos I have a tonn of addons for vanilla NPC records and Interesting NPCs.
This is exactly what I am looking for. Bolgeir Bearclaw the bodyguard of Elisif is just lv18 in vanilla. Captain Aldis the leader of solitude army is just lv15 in vanilla. Commader Caius in whiterun is just lv10 in vanilla.
They are weaker than bandit, draugr, and just city guard in late game. This mod fix them and make skyrim more real. Thank you so much.
This is a really cool idea. Only gripe I have with it, as someone who mods the game to level more slowly, is that some of the starting levels for certain NPCs are a little bit high from what I'm seeing in the description. Skyrim has an issue with power creep and you tend to hit that pretty fast in vanilla, I'm sure everyone's had a moment like this where they go through a whole quest to get a Daedric artifact only to find it's worse than their enchanted Ebony gear they're using (sometimes even with mods that overhaul artifacts). Would you consider making a version at some point where they start at ~50 or 60% (so a boss that started at lvl 50 before will start at 25-30 now), but have a sharper level multiplier (20 or 30% - if it isn't like that already - so a level 25 player would be fighting a level 30-39 boss)? I think it'll also be helpful for people who do more 'focused' playthroughs of Skyrim (they just go through the main stories instead of doing tons of side stuff) and thus don't level up as much either, because most of the time being underleveled in this game doesn't make things more difficult, just extra tedious. Either way, great job - this mod is something I'll definitely try out either way whenever I get around to it.
If you are interested in more of this type of stuff, maybe you would like Requiem?
Its not for everyone, but it does slow down your leveling, delevel the world, makes enemies that should be high level actually high level, and on top of that comes with new mechanics.
The downsides though, are that it is difficult to patch with a large mod list (several hundred mods) to it's standards, is incompatible with Ordinator (Requiem is also a Perk Overhaul with a patch for smaller overhauls like CACO) and the newest versions are controversial in the changes it implements.
If you or anyone else would like to know more about it, which versions I recommend, and which of the few hundred patches out there are most comprehensive giving the most cohesive feel, please send me a PM as I am unlikely to get notified of your response to this comment.
p.s. Rereading this I know this sounds copy pasted or like spam but it is not.
If I wasn't wrong about it, Requiem is 100% static right? This mod is more like a semi-static level design, surely not like a big overhaul like Requiem, but it work well with big modlist(like how i use it in Project SKyrim which have 3000+ mods) It does make the game more difficult(or easy if you get NPC as follower), but with mods, player usually just OP, so it give us a places for abilities to shine. After all one shot every boss is not fun. I may not be able to balance the game well, but at least created a spectacular battle and a more convincing world. I also plan to develop this concept further, with SkyPatcher. As now think this as an "experiment", all feedback is welcome!
@xXBalthorXx as your suggestion, i like the idea, i did make these boss NPCs have bigger than 1.0 PC level scale, like 1.25-1.5. some even 2.0, to keep the game fresh even in late game. But lower their min level will make them "more vanilla", but I guess there will be a middle ground. Let me know how this feel, so I can improve it in the future.
Waeq, thanks for the suggestion. I tried Requiem back in the day but it was a pain in the ass to patch indeed and had many features that I didn't like, I fear it suffers from scope creep and doesn't separate out into modules which would make it much easier to manage, customize and patch for. It seems to have gone through some major overhauls since, but I reckon I'd still need to do a 'requiem-centric' modlist to actually give it a try. Enemy scaling mods like this one are much more flexible, customizable, and swappable without needing to rebuild a chunk of your modlist, so that's why I tend to stick to them for now. No worries about sounding copy pasted by the way, I've seen you around the Nexus enough to know you're not some advanced AI spambot hahahaha. Cheers :)
Arwing, I'm glad you appreciate my suggestion. An option for a 'middle ground' as you put it is definitely the way to go: fixed levels have the most impact in the early game, while level multipliers have the most impact in the late game, so depending on each player's level curve - and thus how much of their playtime is early, mid, or late-game - one approach is more influential. The mod currently seems to fit best with a late-game curve: where the player reaches the late stage pretty fast (like in vanilla) and most playtime is at the peak of player character power. This isn't a bad idea at all, and I suspect a lot of people play like this. You can just focus on the story or on having an army of powerful companions (or waifus, judging by the average companion mods hahaha) because you've already quickly built your character to its max and have the best gear, and with a mod like yours many enemies and encounters will still remain relevant. My suggestion was geared towards a mid-game curve: leveling is slower and the player has to put more time into making their character stronger, so most of their playtime is at around 40 to 70% of the character's maximum power - in other words, the longest time of the playthrough is spent between levels 10 and 40 for example. The reason I like this kind of curve is that it allows for most content to shine and not be quickly surpassed - gear and items are varied and all useful around that range, it's rare to immediately dump something because it's too underpowered or only use something because it's clearly superior, you can do side content and companion quests without worrying about powerleveling too hard for main questlines, the open-world enemies and events don't feel irrelevant because you're not overleveling them by x2 or x3, etc. For comparison, vanilla Skyrim is mostly an early-game curve: leveling is fast but all the content is accessible early on and doesn't scale up very much, so you don't need to spend time getting stronger to do a questilne, and by level ~30 you can already have the strongest gear and perks for a build, and only a few bits of content can be considered 'late-game'. I'm sorry to say that I can't really test the mod properly and give more detailed feedback, my modlist is in a very early stage and I don't have much time for Skyrim ATM, so I'm mostly just tracking new mods and planning how I'll build the modlist. Best of luck with this mod and your other projects as well, the huge VAE patch you're making is great and it's also on my list hehehe :)
I really really like your complete paragraph talking about the whole stage of Skyrim progress. I don't like the curve in vanilla, but i also don't like any curve with static open world. So I am targeting to make a funny game with all stage. I will keep that in mind when I remake this mod using SkyPatcher, we will see. I also have a bigger vision, is to balance Skyrim even in a big modlist. (I am also a member of Project Skyrim, a wabbajack modlist with 3000+mods. well I did mention that did I.) To do that, I say SkyPatcher really is game changer and take place in this, maybe also the new PO3 Item Equip Restrictor. Ah too many things need to be done my friends... too many.
The Item Restrictions mod is something I've desperately wanted for balancing Skyrim but never imagined it would be real. For years this game's incredibly awful code and scripting language meant it was basically impossible. Now that it's real I'm seriously considering making a mod to fix the powercreep by gating higher item/spell/etc tiers with debuffs and outright level requirements... I know how you feel man, I know how you feel...
You wrote: "Put this mod anywhere, because there will always be conflict to mods like replacer. so just Be kind to yourself, use Wrye Bash to build a bashed patch, so all mods work together. No one lost!"
I haven't used Wrye Bash before and don't understand how it works, which with the number of mods I have, especially for appearances and leveled lists, is probably wrong, but still.
I use almost the entire line of "Modpocalypse NPC's". If I install your mod before them, I get nice looking characters of the default level (tested on Ralof in the prologue). If I put your mod below, I get a level twentieth freak. So far it has not been possible to combine these two extremes.
When using WB, “Imperious” also began to work incorrectly: my character received modified magic and stamina values, but health by default. But "Wintersun" stopped launching the survival mode and choosing a religion until the moment of character creation. At least something.
Please, if possible, create a detailed guide (for dummies) on creating a Bash patch (I don’t understand the attached post). Or upset me by confirming that appearance mods are in principle incompatible with yours.
Sorry to hear that, this is because of Skyrim only allow one record to win. My mod and replacer always edit the same NPC, so it will end up what you see. If you don't know how to make a bashed patch, you can search it online, I don't think I'm good enough to teach you. Basically what it did is merge both mod's edit so we all win. We may need to add the bash tag to tell it what record this mod need so it know how to merge.(That is the bash tag for) But ALSO, i come to tell you a good new. Now SkyPatcher is here, I am going to make a New SkyPatcher Version in the future to avoid conflict. I hope this help you, let me know if you have any question.
Nice mod but need lite version ! I was level 3 and done Saadia quest (so supposed to be first logical quests)... Kematu was level 30.. with hand placed ennemies and some other enemies mods improvment lol...unplayable even with Aurlyn and Recorder as follower lol.
Get a high level follower will help.Like any mercenaries, or a housecarl. Custom follower usually have same level with you so they are not powerful at the moment.Kematu is a leader of them so i did make him kind of strong, don't go to their hive in level 3 and expect to kill them all easily. Deceive him to go to Whiterun and blindside him if you must.
More explanation on the concept : I don't relevel them by "which game stage with the quest" but "how strong this NPC should be". Skyrim is open world game so It still make sense to play (like some mod make the main quest undoable in low level because it take a powerful character to kill a dragon) So in the end "In the time of need" may no longer a first logical quests. At least not in level 3. However, I can reconsider his level in 2.0 of this mod (which will be make by SkyPatcher) So i do welcome and thx for any suggestion ;)
Don't see why not, my mod mostly only change level and class, give NPC some perks too. It should and will work with any SPID mod, I am using NPCs Learn Skills and Spells which just like what Enemy (R)Evolution of Skyrim doing
29 comments
You write this mod conflict without Bashed Patch etc. Can I know with which ones for example? Cos I have a tonn of addons for vanilla NPC records and Interesting NPCs.
I thought it got saved, looks like i was wrong, here you go, this should do.
Bolgeir Bearclaw the bodyguard of Elisif is just lv18 in vanilla.
Captain Aldis the leader of solitude army is just lv15 in vanilla.
Commader Caius in whiterun is just lv10 in vanilla.
They are weaker than bandit, draugr, and just city guard in late game.
This mod fix them and make skyrim more real.
Thank you so much.
Either way, great job - this mod is something I'll definitely try out either way whenever I get around to it.
Its not for everyone, but it does slow down your leveling, delevel the world, makes enemies that should be high level actually high level, and on top of that comes with new mechanics.
The downsides though, are that it is difficult to patch with a large mod list (several hundred mods) to it's standards, is incompatible with Ordinator (Requiem is also a Perk Overhaul with a patch for smaller overhauls like CACO) and the newest versions are controversial in the changes it implements.
If you or anyone else would like to know more about it, which versions I recommend, and which of the few hundred patches out there are most comprehensive giving the most cohesive feel, please send me a PM as I am unlikely to get notified of your response to this comment.
p.s. Rereading this I know this sounds copy pasted or like spam but it is not.
This mod is more like a semi-static level design, surely not like a big overhaul like Requiem, but it work well with big modlist(like how i use it in Project SKyrim which have 3000+ mods)
It does make the game more difficult(or easy if you get NPC as follower), but with mods, player usually just OP, so it give us a places for abilities to shine. After all one shot every boss is not fun.
I may not be able to balance the game well, but at least created a spectacular battle and a more convincing world.
I also plan to develop this concept further, with SkyPatcher.
As now think this as an "experiment", all feedback is welcome!
But lower their min level will make them "more vanilla", but I guess there will be a middle ground.
Let me know how this feel, so I can improve it in the future.
No worries about sounding copy pasted by the way, I've seen you around the Nexus enough to know you're not some advanced AI spambot hahahaha. Cheers :)
Arwing, I'm glad you appreciate my suggestion. An option for a 'middle ground' as you put it is definitely the way to go: fixed levels have the most impact in the early game, while level multipliers have the most impact in the late game, so depending on each player's level curve - and thus how much of their playtime is early, mid, or late-game - one approach is more influential.
The mod currently seems to fit best with a late-game curve: where the player reaches the late stage pretty fast (like in vanilla) and most playtime is at the peak of player character power. This isn't a bad idea at all, and I suspect a lot of people play like this. You can just focus on the story or on having an army of powerful companions (or waifus, judging by the average companion mods hahaha) because you've already quickly built your character to its max and have the best gear, and with a mod like yours many enemies and encounters will still remain relevant.
My suggestion was geared towards a mid-game curve: leveling is slower and the player has to put more time into making their character stronger, so most of their playtime is at around 40 to 70% of the character's maximum power - in other words, the longest time of the playthrough is spent between levels 10 and 40 for example. The reason I like this kind of curve is that it allows for most content to shine and not be quickly surpassed - gear and items are varied and all useful around that range, it's rare to immediately dump something because it's too underpowered or only use something because it's clearly superior, you can do side content and companion quests without worrying about powerleveling too hard for main questlines, the open-world enemies and events don't feel irrelevant because you're not overleveling them by x2 or x3, etc.
For comparison, vanilla Skyrim is mostly an early-game curve: leveling is fast but all the content is accessible early on and doesn't scale up very much, so you don't need to spend time getting stronger to do a questilne, and by level ~30 you can already have the strongest gear and perks for a build, and only a few bits of content can be considered 'late-game'.
I'm sorry to say that I can't really test the mod properly and give more detailed feedback, my modlist is in a very early stage and I don't have much time for Skyrim ATM, so I'm mostly just tracking new mods and planning how I'll build the modlist. Best of luck with this mod and your other projects as well, the huge VAE patch you're making is great and it's also on my list hehehe :)
I don't like the curve in vanilla, but i also don't like any curve with static open world. So I am targeting to make a funny game with all stage.
I will keep that in mind when I remake this mod using SkyPatcher, we will see.
I also have a bigger vision, is to balance Skyrim even in a big modlist. (I am also a member of Project Skyrim, a wabbajack modlist with 3000+mods. well I did mention that did I.) To do that, I say SkyPatcher really is game changer and take place in this, maybe also the new PO3 Item Equip Restrictor.
Ah too many things need to be done my friends... too many.
we need every mod we can use.
You wrote:
"Put this mod anywhere, because there will always be conflict to mods like replacer. so just
Be kind to yourself, use Wrye Bash to build a bashed patch, so all mods work together. No one lost!"
I haven't used Wrye Bash before and don't understand how it works, which with the number of mods I have, especially for appearances and leveled lists, is probably wrong, but still.
I use almost the entire line of "Modpocalypse NPC's". If I install your mod before them, I get nice looking characters of the default level (tested on Ralof in the prologue). If I put your mod below, I get a level twentieth freak. So far it has not been possible to combine these two extremes.
When using WB, “Imperious” also began to work incorrectly: my character received modified magic and stamina values, but health by default.
But "Wintersun" stopped launching the survival mode and choosing a religion until the moment of character creation. At least something.
Please, if possible, create a detailed guide (for dummies) on creating a Bash patch (I don’t understand the attached post). Or upset me by confirming that appearance mods are in principle incompatible with yours.
If you don't know how to make a bashed patch, you can search it online, I don't think I'm good enough to teach you. Basically what it did is merge both mod's edit so we all win. We may need to add the bash tag to tell it what record this mod need so it know how to merge.(That is the bash tag for)
But ALSO, i come to tell you a good new. Now SkyPatcher is here, I am going to make a New SkyPatcher Version in the future to avoid conflict.
I hope this help you, let me know if you have any question.
Custom follower usually have same level with you so they are not powerful at the moment.Kematu is a leader of them so i did make him kind of strong, don't go to their hive in level 3 and expect to kill them all easily.
Deceive him to go to Whiterun and blindside him if you must.
Skyrim is open world game so It still make sense to play (like some mod make the main quest undoable in low level because it take a powerful character to kill a dragon)
So in the end "In the time of need" may no longer a first logical quests. At least not in level 3.
However, I can reconsider his level in 2.0 of this mod (which will be make by SkyPatcher)
So i do welcome and thx for any suggestion ;)
It should and will work with any SPID mod, I am using NPCs Learn Skills and Spells which just like what Enemy (R)Evolution of Skyrim doing
all this time i just ticked leveled list