Note, I'm neither a modeler nor a texturer (probably not a real word). To make the dragon soul gem items more unique looking, I'd kindly ask for assistance.
Things to do:
* Eliminate the "you cannot equip this item" message when using elemental gems. * New forging items? * Looking into armor.
Working version preview:
* Set up a few totems (shout magnitude, general ward when blocking, concentrated poisons, and weapon effects). * Eliminated the very static flame breath weapons in favor of a more flexible totem that works with all weapons. * Need to retool the recipes. They were created in haste, and after a play through they feel a bit too intense. As a start, the flawless sapphire has been reduced to a regular sapphire, but I'll be building a spreadsheet to properly design the recipes. * In test play throughs, the elemental gems were not useful to me. I'm seriously considering removing them entirely, so cast your votes if you want them to stay.
I would caution anyone who uses this mod to avoid using the shout potions unless you are ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN you won't do those quests. I learned all three words of fire breath before meeting Paarthurnax, and it pretty much broke the game.
I'll second that caution. The intent is to use the potions for words where you have no intention of doing the quest line that will take you to the wall.
That said, I'm curious how it broke the game for you.
Basically, Paarthurnax kept telling me to go to the word wall, and wouldn't do anything else even if I advanced the main questline with the console. From there, it was a fight to get anything else main-quest related to work properly without using the console, and I eventually got fed up with it.
^^ advancing things with the console is finicky at best; I skipped the dawnguard questline to reading the elder scroll (hitting all stages) and the priest never showed. Keep advancing and the issues snowball. It was only to test something (which ended up working) but when I got to destroying the dawnguard, they all considered me friendly (even though I did stage progression to only follow the vampires) and Isran was immortal (and meeting Tolan--also immortal, and hostile to me--when I walked in).
were you advancing each stage individually and making SURE to not advance stages that were pro dawnguard/ anti-vampire? i havent done this with skyrim but with fallout 4 i know if you advance stages with CC's you cant just go "set stage (quest) 1000" you have to do each one in succession and make sure to never choose an option that branches how you dont wish it to and NEVER choose contradictory branch advancements as this can begin to corrupt your save file. I just assume skyrim is the same but i dont know for sure
Sweet. I've been looking for something that would let me use dragon souls for enchanting. Any chance you could make them more powerful than black souls? does the game allow for something like that?
Narue wrote: That's not outside the realm of possibility. I don't own any consoles and don't yet know how to publish a mod for consoles, but if I can do it without having one, then I don't see why not. This mod doesn't add any new assets at this point, so the question is what kind of scripting consoles allow.
Narue wrote: After playing in the CK, I seem to be able to upload the mod for PS4 and Xbox One, which I've done. Hopefully it works, because I'm unable to test it.
Quickie update. It seems that PS4 doesn't allow new scripts, so this mod is not compatible. Hence, I've removed the PS4 version. The auto-quest has been reported as flaky on xbone, and my next update in an attempt to fix that will start the quest from the recipe book as a secondary measure (the auto-quest will likely remain too). I'm depending completely on others for testing consoles because I cannot, so the dev cycle may be frustrating for users.
It'll be a few days though. I'm currently on vacation with no access to the dev beast.
Mm... Sony is overcautious about scripted mods. Also the same reason PS4 isn't getting BS: Bruma. Have fun on vacation though.
Narue wrote: I knew about the external assets restriction, but I wasn't aware it was so stringent. Disallowing new scripts gimps the game so much given that they're essential to core functionality. But it looks like PS4 isn't getting any of my stuff, because I'm a script monkey. I have trouble thinking of any of my mods over the years that hasn't included at least one new script.
p.s. Back from vacation. A little sunburnt, but otherwise none the worse for the wear.
Given that it was essentially your idea, what would you like to see in terms of totems? Presently the implementation relies on presence of the totem (one or more) in the inventory. When "something" happens, a "charge" is subtracted from the totem. When all "charges" are exhausted, the totem (only one) is removed from the inventory.
My POC for the totem charges was a perk to boost magnitude of shouts (ironically a request from the PS4 users). When you shout, a charge is used, and the perk is applied when there's a non-zero number of totems in the inventory. So I know perks work with the system, and that totem will make it into the next release (console only though, until I solidify how I want things). A straight magic effect might be more awkward on the back end in terms of application and removal, but doable.
I do want to differentiate between usable items and automatic items with charges, much as I dislike the "you cannot equip this item" message, so the elemental gems would still fall under usable items rather than totems and fixing that is still on the to do list. Also, the logic of determining when to use a charge on the elemental cloaks has high probability of being ornery. The death amulet might make a good candidate, though I'm not dissatisfied with how it works presently.
revenant0713 wrote: Hmm... Brainstorming led to this short list of potential totem effects. Maybe one of them will get gears rolling?
Spoiler:
Show
Revive -- basically convert the amulet into a totem if you feel like it. For balance purposes, you'd need to limit this to 1 charge per totem. That directly means 1 dragon soul gem per crafted totem. It also means that before a tough battle, you have to decide how many souls you need to spend to create potential extra lives. It'll definitely make it more difficult to choose between crafting the totem or saving the soul for something else.
Prophecy -- Sleep while at least one Prophecy totem is in your Inventory. When you wake up, a message box will pop up telling you what you can expect to run into a given location for that day, and the totem will be gone. Then, run a script to guarantee that encounter in that location. Example textbox: "Your dream reveals danger in a Dwemer ruin." Result: When you enter a Dwemer ruin within the next 24 hours, a random encounter with a hostile NPC will occur inside. This might be fun, as Akatosh is the deity of time after all.
Subjugation -- Consumed on performing a Raise Dead spell on a target too powerful for it to raise. Reanimates the target for a limited time. (Works on targets that otherwise cannot be affected by Raise Dead. On death, the targets will still disintegrate into ash piles.
Ingestion -- When cannibalizing a target the totem is consumed, and you will appear to other people as that target, and inherit its faction and relationships to other NPCs. This effect lasts for 1 hour, or until you enter combat.
Also, the only way I can think of bypassing the "cannot equip" message is classifying the item as food, potion, or ingredient. Funny, because I recall these already went through the potion phase, and got changed into gems. XD Full circle?
> Also, the only way I can think of bypassing the "cannot equip" message is classifying the item as food, potion, or ingredient. Funny, because I recall these already went through the potion phase, and got changed into gems.
You recall correctly. It started with gems, then went to potions, then back to gems. I'm currently doing a full play through of the game for purposes of testing the mod in a realistic manner. My results thus far are:
* I haven't felt any need or desire to craft the gems, so they've been added to a list of features that might be cut.
* The Dragon Aspect circlet has found a lot of use.
* The death amulet has found a lot of use and was the first thing I crafted.
* The fire breath weapons have proven useful and not too OP, though my smithing isn't at the higher tiers yet. However, for iron and steel, there's an extra boost of damage equivalent to a decent vanilla enchantment and it strikes me as level appropriate for the weapon material. Thumbs up so far.
* The recipes need work in terms of balancing. As an example, a Flawless Sapphire is one ingredient, and I forgot just how uncommon they are. I get the impression that most of the recipes demand early mid levels, which might defeat the purpose for things like the death amulet.
* Items can be disenchanted, but the learned enchantment may not be usable for subsequent enchanting. I haven't gotten a chance to test that in-game (I get distracted easily when actually playing), but if it's the case I'd be tempted to add support for proper consistency.
* The totem is technically in the mod (as of version 2.7), but it can only be acquired through the console. I haven't yet decided if I want to test it or wait to flesh out the totem system first.
Hm... yeah, it never occurred to me to try the breath weapons. Maybe I should give em a run. XD
The Aspect circlet is a cool touch as well.
The potions, well... they serve their purpose. No complaints with the existing ones. A thought for more potential unique potions did cross my mind however. Typically, shouts and powers are limited by a cooldown. However... if you had potions or poisons that did first-word or dampened variations of shouts or powers... that might open an avenue for players to invest dragon souls in. For example, if I am a Nord, my vanilla racial power would be Battlecry. If I had a potion created from... say... Orsimer blood (A vanilla item, interestingly...), Dragon Dust, and some other ingredient, I'd drink said potion and fall under the effect of the Orc racial ability, Berserk (Albeit slightly weaker than a true orc's Berserk).
This is only theoretical, though. Some racials might not be that good to turn into potion form... particularly the High Elven "Highborn," which basically is a strong version of a mana pot.
Narue wrote: That's not outside the realm of possibility. I don't own any consoles and don't yet know how to publish a mod for consoles, but if I can do it without having one, then I don't see why not. This mod doesn't add any new assets at this point, so the question is what kind of scripting consoles allow.
Narue wrote: After playing in the CK, I seem to be able to upload the mod for PS4 and Xbox One, which I've done. Hopefully it works, because I'm unable to test it.
Quickie update. It seems that PS4 doesn't allow new scripts, so this mod is not compatible. Hence, I've removed the PS4 version. The auto-quest has been reported as flaky on xbone, and my next update in an attempt to fix that will start the quest from the recipe book as a secondary measure (the auto-quest will likely remain too). I'm depending completely on others for testing consoles because I cannot, so the dev cycle may be frustrating for users.
It'll be a few days though. I'm currently on vacation with no access to the dev beast.
Mm... Sony is overcautious about scripted mods. Also the same reason PS4 isn't getting BS: Bruma.
I knew about the external assets restriction, but I wasn't aware it was so stringent. Disallowing new scripts gimps the game so much given that they're essential to core functionality. But it looks like PS4 isn't getting any of my stuff, because I'm a script monkey. I have trouble thinking of any of my mods over the years that hasn't included at least one new script.
p.s. Back from vacation. A little sunburnt, but otherwise none the worse for the wear.
Given that it was essentially your idea, what would you like to see in terms of totems? Presently the implementation relies on presence of the totem (one or more) in the inventory. When "something" happens, a "charge" is subtracted from the totem. When all "charges" are exhausted, the totem (only one) is removed from the inventory.
My POC for the totem charges was a perk to boost magnitude of shouts (ironically a request from the PS4 users). When you shout, a charge is used, and the perk is applied when there's a non-zero number of totems in the inventory. So I know perks work with the system, and that totem will make it into the next release (console only though, until I solidify how I want things). A straight magic effect might be more awkward on the back end in terms of application and removal, but doable.
I do want to differentiate between usable items and automatic items with charges, much as I dislike the "you cannot equip this item" message, so the elemental gems would still fall under usable items rather than totems and fixing that is still on the to do list. Also, the logic of determining when to use a charge on the elemental cloaks has high probability of being ornery. The death amulet might make a good candidate, though I'm not dissatisfied with how it works presently.
Hmm... Brainstorming led to this short list of potential totem effects. Maybe one of them will get gears rolling?
Spoiler:
Show
Revive -- basically convert the amulet into a totem if you feel like it. For balance purposes, you'd need to limit this to 1 charge per totem. That directly means 1 dragon soul gem per crafted totem. It also means that before a tough battle, you have to decide how many souls you need to spend to create potential extra lives. It'll definitely make it more difficult to choose between crafting the totem or saving the soul for something else.
Prophecy -- Sleep while at least one Prophecy totem is in your Inventory. When you wake up, a message box will pop up telling you what you can expect to run into a given location for that day, and the totem will be gone. Then, run a script to guarantee that encounter in that location. Example textbox: "Your dream reveals danger in a Dwemer ruin." Result: When you enter a Dwemer ruin within the next 24 hours, a random encounter with a hostile NPC will occur inside. This might be fun, as Akatosh is the deity of time after all.
Subjugation -- Consumed on performing a Raise Dead spell on a target too powerful for it to raise. Reanimates the target for a limited time. (Works on targets that otherwise cannot be affected by Raise Dead. On death, the targets will still disintegrate into ash piles.
Ingestion -- When cannibalizing a target the totem is consumed, and you will appear to other people as that target, and inherit its faction and relationships to other NPCs. This effect lasts for 1 hour, or until you enter combat.
Also, the only way I can think of bypassing the "cannot equip" message is classifying the item as food, potion, or ingredient. Funny, because I recall these already went through the potion phase, and got changed into gems. XD Full circle?
> Also, the only way I can think of bypassing the "cannot equip" message is classifying the item as food, potion, or ingredient. Funny, because I recall these already went through the potion phase, and got changed into gems.
You recall correctly. It started with gems, then went to potions, then back to gems. I'm currently doing a full play through of the game for purposes of testing the mod in a realistic manner. My results thus far are:
* I haven't felt any need or desire to craft the gems, so they've been added to a list of features that might be cut.
* The Dragon Aspect circlet has found a lot of use.
* The death amulet has found a lot of use and was the first thing I crafted.
* The fire breath weapons have proven useful and not too OP, though my smithing isn't at the higher tiers yet. However, for iron and steel, there's an extra boost of damage equivalent to a decent vanilla enchantment and it strikes me as level appropriate for the weapon material. Thumbs up so far.
* The recipes need work in terms of balancing. As an example, a Flawless Sapphire is one ingredient, and I forgot just how uncommon they are. I get the impression that most of the recipes demand early mid levels, which might defeat the purpose for things like the death amulet.
* Items can be disenchanted, but the learned enchantment may not be usable for subsequent enchanting. I haven't gotten a chance to test that in-game (I get distracted easily when actually playing), but if it's the case I'd be tempted to add support for proper consistency.
* The totem is technically in the mod (as of version 2.7), but it can only be acquired through the console. I haven't yet decided if I want to test it or wait to flesh out the totem system first.
That's not outside the realm of possibility. I don't own any consoles and don't yet know how to publish a mod for consoles, but if I can do it without having one, then I don't see why not. This mod doesn't add any new assets at this point, so the question is what kind of scripting consoles allow.
Quickie update. It seems that PS4 doesn't allow new scripts, so this mod is not compatible. Hence, I've removed the PS4 version. The auto-quest has been reported as flaky on xbone, and my next update in an attempt to fix that will start the quest from the recipe book as a secondary measure (the auto-quest will likely remain too). I'm depending completely on others for testing consoles because I cannot, so the dev cycle may be frustrating for users.
It'll be a few days though. I'm currently on vacation with no access to the dev beast.
There will be another one soon. Not in terms of features, but I've shuffled things around internally and tidied up the current features to better facilitate growth (for example, followers should be able to use the revival amulets). Unfortunately, it means a new save will be recommended because the revival feature's implementation has changed.
I'm debating whether I want to release before figuring out the bugs with certain kill moves (giant slam, anyone?) or simply note it as a known issue.
Ahh grand, yeah i've been kept real busy with things so i've yet to even get hands on with the current version, any chance you could clue me in? what exactly is the bug with the giant slam, is it game-breaking or what?
Well, at this point I finally think I've fixed it. Not technically game-breaking because you always have the option to reload or unequip the amulet to experience a proper death, but here's the skinny on giants and their silliness:
The giant slam will launch you into oblivion (either by stomping or smashing with their club). This was probably an amusing bug that Bethesda chose to keep, but it wacks out scripts. Normally this is an instant death and you reload almost immediately after it happens. However, if you're currently marked as essential or protected, you enjoy the entire ride up and back down. The problem is that OnEnterBleedout is fired near the apex of your ascent. This mod restores health when OnEnterBleedout fires, but there's still a long way back down.
While everything would be fine perhaps 80% of the time, occasionally you'd ragdoll excessively *and take damage from it*. While in that state, you go into an infinite loop where OnEnterBleedout is called repetitively, and basically soft lock until manually reloading a save or removing the amulet that makes you essential. Prior to the amulet (version 2.0), the essential state was set in the OnInit of a quest, and you'd need to console out of it.
After many attempts to catch and resolve the problem directly in script, it occurred to me that since the problem is taking damage while ragdolling, why not just apply an ethereal effect with a duration for the longest fall I counted out during testing? A simple solution, but it works beautifully after being launched consecutively by giants for the better part of an hour.
The ethereal effect also accomplishes the same goal I had originally, which is to give the player time to escape if so desired. Previously I was doing that with a fear effect, and ethereal works just as well for the purpose.
Suffice it to say, this problem was a booger to troubleshoot.
Well, that sounds both frustrating and hilarious, but i'm glad you seem to have found a solution to it... i will of course need to get slammed into orbit with the current version, before it gets fixed, just for a laugh
One of two frustrating problems. The other problem is hardly game-breaking, I just find it annoying. When you use/equip the usable elemental gems, a "you cannot equip this item" message is shown. It doesn't stop the events from firing, but from a usability standpoint I don't like it.
It might be an engine thing, or I might find a clever way around it, time will tell.
My one issue is the balance. These are way too cheap for my liking.
I use true dragonborn lite, which grants some passive bonus to keeping a hold of up to 100 dragon souls. It has more powerful variants, but i'm not about becoming OP, just a little extra.
I'll edit your mod to suit my own style, as the framework and idea behind it are amazing.
I'll probably go with the following changes;
Dragonborn Soul Fortify - Consumes 5 dragon souls for a 10 point increase to the player's choice of Health, Stamina, or Magicka. 1 Soul is too easy to come by to grant a whole 10
Dragonborn Soul Compress - Consumes 1 dragon soul in exchange for 1 filled dragon soul gem (equivalent to black soul gem). 1 to 1 ratio seems both logical and more balanced
Dragon Soul Gift - Consumes 1 dragon soul to learn one of the quest locked words. Left this as it is, it's not granting any additional power, but it serves a solid purpose of allowing players to get faction-locked shouts, and i like that idea
Dragonborn Revival - On potential death, 3 dragon soul can be consumed to fully recover. Again, it's not granting any additional power, just a nice way to avoid needing to quickload, in an immersive way, but 1 soul still feels too cheap for the life of the dragonborn, slight increase just to make it feel more earned.
Dragon Breath - Besides being fully functional soul gems, the dragon soul gem can be "equipped" from the inventory to apply one of three cloak spells (Flame, Frost, Lightning). Left as is as the gems are tied to the compression spell
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Before anyone goes off on one, i want to state, i don't think my values are right and yours are wrong, it's just that "balance" is subjective, and is different for everyone, based on their mod list, their difficulty choices and just personal taste.
My suggestion to you, would be either to perhaps offer some variants, or expand on the configuration menu to allow costs to be altered in-game.
Thanks for this great mod either way, keep up the good work ^_^
Narue wrote: Thanks for the feedback!
Fair warning, these days I largely play as a non-dragonborn, so my memory on overflow of dragon souls is sketchy at best.
> 1 to 1 ratio seems both logical and more balanced
The problem is grand soul gems are relatively common even in the early mid levels, and lore-wise dragon souls are more powerful than an NPC soul. I have no problem changing things or making it configurable, but the default should be both balanced and make sense in the world.
> Left as is as the gems are tied to the compression spell
Dragon Breath is the one that I'm most iffy about. Granted the cloak is temporary and the equivalent of just casting the spell in exchange for a gem, I'm just not sure it makes sense from an immersion standpoint. If I could create a stronger soul gem than grand, I'd do so, but that seems hard coded into the engine.
In hindsight, I should have made the amounts global variables to facilitate ease of modification in xEdit (in lieu of an in-game configuration option, of course, since that's the ideal) without having to recompile scripts. My bad, and I'll likely correct that oversight shortly.
rabbie86 wrote: Ahh i see, Well lore-wise you have to accept one of 2 things; 1. Soul gems can hold a single soul or 2. A dragon soul can be 'split' across several gems
By the fact you've called them Dragon Gems, you are opening the door to the lore that a powerful mage has enchanted soul gems in a way to allow them to hold the souls of dragons, this lends itself to the 1:1 mentality. Now on to the matter of them being more powerful, by giving them the utility as you have done so far with the cloak ability, you've also added to that lore, by saying that these enchanted dragon gems, when filled can be used in other ways than simple enchanting, but when crushed in the hand can grant you the power of the dragons, thus far in the form of cloaks.
This both explains the cloaks in an immersive and fitting way, while also giving a higher degree of power to the gems without it being about quantity.
If anything, i'd say add more options and expand on using the gems directly. It gives dragon hunters a way of gaining these abilities and using spells without needing to specialize in magic, which is always welcome when it's in a balanced way.
How about, and i know this may be ambitious or beyond the scope of what you're intending, but i'm just tossing some ideas out there.. a new crafting station for working with dragon gems.
When you use the compression spell, you get the gems as usual, now these can be used in lieu of grand gems or brought to this new station where you can imbue them for different on-use effects such as maybe;
Dragon gem of Fire - When used: Cast flame cloak, Grant x% fire damage and fire resistance for x seconds Same as above for Lightning and Ice
Dragon gem of Speed - When used: Increase movement speed by x% for x seconds
Dragon gem of Force - When used: Increase damage with melee weapons by x% for x seconds
Dragon gem of Productivity - When used: Increase Smithing, Enchanting and Alchemy by x% for x seconds
And other such effects, This would not only add more utility and give non-crafting and non-magic types a way to gain these effects, but also bolster those that do, by giving alternative ways to add more to their arsenal. And by tying each gem to a single effect, you add to the immersion by removing the need for a message box and attached script, it would all be handled within the CK.
Just an idea as i say, and i mean, i'd gladly throw my hat in the ring and offer to ease the workload if it's something you feel you'd like to go ahead with.
Narue wrote: I like the way you think.
As a start, I've already moved all of the literal values into global variables for the next version. Further, all but the attribute increase amount are configurable when toggling the corresponding spell or feature on. This should make the mod more usable for different balance preferences as well as simplify direct modifications in xEdit without having to recompile scripts.
Concerning more immersive use of the gems, those ideas are quite good. I'll look into it.
revenant0713 wrote: Butting in from the Oldrim version of this mod.
@rabbie86 You're right. A powerful mage would have had get involved in the discovery and/or creation of Dragon Gems. So if it helps... Neloth is arguably the most powerful mage in the game. Getting Tel Mithryn involved in future mechanics or interactions regarding the gems is probably a lore friendly way to path to take (My pitch was Atronach Forge interactions and recipes with the Dragon Gems).
But really, I think the challenge is in making the gems feel different mechanically from regular consumable potions or scrolls.
I'm not much of a modder outside of number tweaks, but I am a... decent... high fantasy writer. And I do love this mod. So I hope this helps.
rabbie86 wrote: Great update, though i've had some unexpected behaviour with the attribute spell, had this with you old version too, was still investigating the source. Basically, the spell is giving much more than the intended amount, this isn't due to your mod alone, but there must be some conflict in my modlist. either way, i did some console fiddling and found that 'player.modav 10' worked every time in adding only 10.
Brings me to your script and your use of SetActorValue to add to the attribute, I'm curious why you've used this and not ModActorValue("Health", amount) instead. I'm not sure if i'm missing something though. Any thoughts on this? ^_^
Narue wrote: > Brings me to your script and your use of SetActorValue to add to the attribute, I'm curious why you've used this and not ModActorValue("Health", amount) instead. I'm not sure if i'm missing something though. Any thoughts on this? ^_^
That's a curious bug. To answer the question on function choice, SetActorValue applies the change to the base value rather than the current value. So it will ignore any other effects you have going such as a potion or fortify spell as well as include active effects in the result. Technically both should accomplish the same thing unless you're working in negatives or have a conflicting mod somewhere...somehow.
I'll play around with it to see if modav works better.
rabbie86 wrote: Yeah see i thought the same thing, when i looked at your script, i couldn't see any reason it wouldn't be applying a flat 10, but somewhere in my 150 mod list, there's clearly something throwing a spanner in the works. I'm as stumped by it as you probably are, but after fiddling in the console and finding modAV was working fine, i went ahead and altered your script to ModActorValue just to see if it would make a difference. And sure enough, i reloaded the same save, gave it a few test casts and no problems. One of those little mysteries of life i guess.
Anyways, having gotten that out of the way, i've uncovered a couple quirks in the update;
1. Revive Message is "Consume 1 dragon soul to keep fighting" regardless of actual cost, a minor oversight i assume, but then i got to thinking, why am i being asked if i want to survive? surely the idea is on of the dragons you've absorbed is sacrificing his soul to keep you alive in your hour of need, so i went ahead and dove into your Revive script and cut ' && ReviveMsg.Show() == 0' from the relevant conditional line, and removed the now unused "ReviveMsg property" and deleted the message in the CK. (personal preference thing really, the less message boxes i see, the better for immersion)
2. The standard config message for soul cost is only relevant to Soul Gift, "How many souls shall be consumed for each newly learned word?" Simply cut, 'For each newly learned word' from the message to make it ambiguous, nice compact script there btw, i'd have probably gone with a book menu and it'd be adding much more to the mod, you achieve the same effect with a single message and a few lines of code, props
Narue wrote: > And sure enough, i reloaded the same save, gave it a few test casts and no problems.
Welp, let's make it official then. I'll switch to ModActorValue for the next version and call it one of the quirks of the engine.
> Revive Message is "Consume 1 dragon soul to keep fighting" regardless of actual cost, a minor oversight i assume
Yep, that will be corrected. Good catch.
> why am i being asked if i want to survive?
It could go either way, to be honest. I favored never losing souls automatically. For example, early in the game you might want the option to revive during an important battle, but otherwise retain your souls for unlocking shouts. Being asked is more convenient than remembering to enable and disable the revival feature.
> Simply cut, 'For each newly learned word' from the message to make it ambiguous
Makes sense, I'll do so.
rabbie86 wrote: Fair point, i was just looking at it from the stance of, "why would i choose to die?" in an RP sense. I mean sure from a Player's perspective you'd sometimes rather die, but even so, you could always F9 after your revive instead of on your death if you'd rather have gone back. I guess an alternative would be, instead of paying souls directly while you're bleeding out, it could cost an item, possibly rolled into the Dragon Gem system. In lieu of costing x amount of souls, it costs a Dragon Gem of Life or some such.
That way would keep both playstyles happy, eliminating a message box while maintaining control, though that could just be me, i'm biased against messageboxes
Narue wrote: I'm not a huge fan of message boxes either.
> i was just looking at it from the stance of, "why would i choose to die?" in an RP sense.
Indeed. From an RP sense there's no point in even asking the question. What I'd like to accomplish is reconciling potential RP play styles and the underlying fact that this *is* a game, and for a minor inconvenience loading the last save you could keep that soul for other uses.
It's funny you mention using the gem system, because I was toying with the idea of a craftable amulet using components derived from a dragon gem. When equipped, the revival system is active, and if revival occurs, the amulet is destroyed. That way there are no message boxes, the entire revival system occurs in-world, it's RP-friendly, and destruction of the amulet helps with game balance.
rabbie86 wrote: I like the Amulet idea but for one detail, if it occupies the standard neck slot, you'd be giving up a lot of power in the form of an enchanted necklace just for the one-time revive. If there's some way to equip your amulet without taking the standard slots, then it would be ideal!
> I like the Amulet idea but for one detail, if it occupies the standard neck slot, you'd be giving up a lot of power in the form of an enchanted necklace just for the one-time revive.
I think that's a fair trade, actually. When dungeon diving, do you want the power to possibly avoid death in the first place, or have a guaranteed revive? It's a trade-off that encourages more consideration about priorities.
Fair point, but I kind of see more weight in rabbie's statement. It's actually a fair trade in a hardcore sense, where, say for example, you play with SkyrimSouls and you cannot pause the game to swap items out in a pinch. In a classic playthrough though, when close to death, you can just hit the menu and equip the amulet. And in both cases, it is possible to hotkey the amulet anyway.
It's kind of like that feeling when you return to normal after a werewolf transformation, but naked. The feature is meant to feel like a tradeoff for the power of entering Beast Form, but it isn't, really, as the items are just in your inventory.
My one issue is the balance. These are way too cheap for my liking.
I use true dragonborn lite, which grants some passive bonus to keeping a hold of up to 100 dragon souls. It has more powerful variants, but i'm not about becoming OP, just a little extra.
I'll edit your mod to suit my own style, as the framework and idea behind it are amazing.
I'll probably go with the following changes;
Dragonborn Soul Fortify - Consumes 5 dragon souls for a 10 point increase to the player's choice of Health, Stamina, or Magicka. 1 Soul is too easy to come by to grant a whole 10
Dragonborn Soul Compress - Consumes 1 dragon soul in exchange for 1 filled dragon soul gem (equivalent to black soul gem). 1 to 1 ratio seems both logical and more balanced
Dragon Soul Gift - Consumes 1 dragon soul to learn one of the quest locked words. Left this as it is, it's not granting any additional power, but it serves a solid purpose of allowing players to get faction-locked shouts, and i like that idea
Dragonborn Revival - On potential death, 3 dragon soul can be consumed to fully recover. Again, it's not granting any additional power, just a nice way to avoid needing to quickload, in an immersive way, but 1 soul still feels too cheap for the life of the dragonborn, slight increase just to make it feel more earned.
Dragon Breath - Besides being fully functional soul gems, the dragon soul gem can be "equipped" from the inventory to apply one of three cloak spells (Flame, Frost, Lightning). Left as is as the gems are tied to the compression spell
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Before anyone goes off on one, i want to state, i don't think my values are right and yours are wrong, it's just that "balance" is subjective, and is different for everyone, based on their mod list, their difficulty choices and just personal taste.
My suggestion to you, would be either to perhaps offer some variants, or expand on the configuration menu to allow costs to be altered in-game.
Thanks for this great mod either way, keep up the good work ^_^
Fair warning, these days I largely play as a non-dragonborn, so my memory on overflow of dragon souls is sketchy at best.
> 1 to 1 ratio seems both logical and more balanced
The problem is grand soul gems are relatively common even in the early mid levels, and lore-wise dragon souls are more powerful than an NPC soul. I have no problem changing things or making it configurable, but the default should be both balanced and make sense in the world.
> Left as is as the gems are tied to the compression spell
Dragon Breath is the one that I'm most iffy about. Granted the cloak is temporary and the equivalent of just casting the spell in exchange for a gem, I'm just not sure it makes sense from an immersion standpoint. If I could create a stronger soul gem than grand, I'd do so, but that seems hard coded into the engine.
In hindsight, I should have made the amounts global variables to facilitate ease of modification in xEdit (in lieu of an in-game configuration option, of course, since that's the ideal) without having to recompile scripts. My bad, and I'll likely correct that oversight shortly.
Ahh i see, Well lore-wise you have to accept one of 2 things; 1. Soul gems can hold a single soul or 2. A dragon soul can be 'split' across several gems
By the fact you've called them Dragon Gems, you are opening the door to the lore that a powerful mage has enchanted soul gems in a way to allow them to hold the souls of dragons, this lends itself to the 1:1 mentality. Now on to the matter of them being more powerful, by giving them the utility as you have done so far with the cloak ability, you've also added to that lore, by saying that these enchanted dragon gems, when filled can be used in other ways than simple enchanting, but when crushed in the hand can grant you the power of the dragons, thus far in the form of cloaks.
This both explains the cloaks in an immersive and fitting way, while also giving a higher degree of power to the gems without it being about quantity.
If anything, i'd say add more options and expand on using the gems directly. It gives dragon hunters a way of gaining these abilities and using spells without needing to specialize in magic, which is always welcome when it's in a balanced way.
How about, and i know this may be ambitious or beyond the scope of what you're intending, but i'm just tossing some ideas out there.. a new crafting station for working with dragon gems.
When you use the compression spell, you get the gems as usual, now these can be used in lieu of grand gems or brought to this new station where you can imbue them for different on-use effects such as maybe;
Dragon gem of Fire - When used: Cast flame cloak, Grant x% fire damage and fire resistance for x seconds Same as above for Lightning and Ice
Dragon gem of Speed - When used: Increase movement speed by x% for x seconds
Dragon gem of Force - When used: Increase damage with melee weapons by x% for x seconds
Dragon gem of Productivity - When used: Increase Smithing, Enchanting and Alchemy by x% for x seconds
And other such effects, This would not only add more utility and give non-crafting and non-magic types a way to gain these effects, but also bolster those that do, by giving alternative ways to add more to their arsenal. And by tying each gem to a single effect, you add to the immersion by removing the need for a message box and attached script, it would all be handled within the CK.
Just an idea as i say, and i mean, i'd gladly throw my hat in the ring and offer to ease the workload if it's something you feel you'd like to go ahead with.
As a start, I've already moved all of the literal values into global variables for the next version. Further, all but the attribute increase amount are configurable when toggling the corresponding spell or feature on. This should make the mod more usable for different balance preferences as well as simplify direct modifications in xEdit without having to recompile scripts.
Concerning more immersive use of the gems, those ideas are quite good. I'll look into it.
@rabbie86 You're right. A powerful mage would have had get involved in the discovery and/or creation of Dragon Gems. So if it helps... Neloth is arguably the most powerful mage in the game. Getting Tel Mithryn involved in future mechanics or interactions regarding the gems is probably a lore friendly way to path to take (My pitch was Atronach Forge interactions and recipes with the Dragon Gems).
But really, I think the challenge is in making the gems feel different mechanically from regular consumable potions or scrolls.
I'm not much of a modder outside of number tweaks, but I am a... decent... high fantasy writer. And I do love this mod. So I hope this helps.
Great update, though i've had some unexpected behaviour with the attribute spell, had this with you old version too, was still investigating the source. Basically, the spell is giving much more than the intended amount, this isn't due to your mod alone, but there must be some conflict in my modlist. either way, i did some console fiddling and found that 'player.modav 10' worked every time in adding only 10.
Brings me to your script and your use of SetActorValue to add to the attribute, I'm curious why you've used this and not ModActorValue("Health", amount) instead. I'm not sure if i'm missing something though. Any thoughts on this? ^_^
> Brings me to your script and your use of SetActorValue to add to the attribute, I'm curious why you've used this and not ModActorValue("Health", amount) instead. I'm not sure if i'm missing something though. Any thoughts on this? ^_^
That's a curious bug. To answer the question on function choice, SetActorValue applies the change to the base value rather than the current value. So it will ignore any other effects you have going such as a potion or fortify spell as well as include active effects in the result. Technically both should accomplish the same thing unless you're working in negatives or have a conflicting mod somewhere...somehow.
I'll play around with it to see if modav works better.
Yeah see i thought the same thing, when i looked at your script, i couldn't see any reason it wouldn't be applying a flat 10, but somewhere in my 150 mod list, there's clearly something throwing a spanner in the works. I'm as stumped by it as you probably are, but after fiddling in the console and finding modAV was working fine, i went ahead and altered your script to ModActorValue just to see if it would make a difference. And sure enough, i reloaded the same save, gave it a few test casts and no problems. One of those little mysteries of life i guess.
Anyways, having gotten that out of the way, i've uncovered a couple quirks in the update;
1. Revive Message is "Consume 1 dragon soul to keep fighting" regardless of actual cost, a minor oversight i assume, but then i got to thinking, why am i being asked if i want to survive? surely the idea is on of the dragons you've absorbed is sacrificing his soul to keep you alive in your hour of need, so i went ahead and dove into your Revive script and cut ' && ReviveMsg.Show() == 0' from the relevant conditional line, and removed the now unused "ReviveMsg property" and deleted the message in the CK. (personal preference thing really, the less message boxes i see, the better for immersion)
2. The standard config message for soul cost is only relevant to Soul Gift, "How many souls shall be consumed for each newly learned word?" Simply cut, 'For each newly learned word' from the message to make it ambiguous, nice compact script there btw, i'd have probably gone with a book menu and it'd be adding much more to the mod, you achieve the same effect with a single message and a few lines of code, props
> And sure enough, i reloaded the same save, gave it a few test casts and no problems.
Welp, let's make it official then. I'll switch to ModActorValue for the next version and call it one of the quirks of the engine.
> Revive Message is "Consume 1 dragon soul to keep fighting" regardless of actual cost, a minor oversight i assume
Yep, that will be corrected. Good catch.
> why am i being asked if i want to survive?
It could go either way, to be honest. I favored never losing souls automatically. For example, early in the game you might want the option to revive during an important battle, but otherwise retain your souls for unlocking shouts. Being asked is more convenient than remembering to enable and disable the revival feature.
> Simply cut, 'For each newly learned word' from the message to make it ambiguous
Fair point, i was just looking at it from the stance of, "why would i choose to die?" in an RP sense. I mean sure from a Player's perspective you'd sometimes rather die, but even so, you could always F9 after your revive instead of on your death if you'd rather have gone back. I guess an alternative would be, instead of paying souls directly while you're bleeding out, it could cost an item, possibly rolled into the Dragon Gem system. In lieu of costing x amount of souls, it costs a Dragon Gem of Life or some such.
That way would keep both playstyles happy, eliminating a message box while maintaining control, though that could just be me, i'm biased against messageboxes
> i was just looking at it from the stance of, "why would i choose to die?" in an RP sense.
Indeed. From an RP sense there's no point in even asking the question. What I'd like to accomplish is reconciling potential RP play styles and the underlying fact that this *is* a game, and for a minor inconvenience loading the last save you could keep that soul for other uses.
It's funny you mention using the gem system, because I was toying with the idea of a craftable amulet using components derived from a dragon gem. When equipped, the revival system is active, and if revival occurs, the amulet is destroyed. That way there are no message boxes, the entire revival system occurs in-world, it's RP-friendly, and destruction of the amulet helps with game balance.
I like the Amulet idea but for one detail, if it occupies the standard neck slot, you'd be giving up a lot of power in the form of an enchanted necklace just for the one-time revive. If there's some way to equip your amulet without taking the standard slots, then it would be ideal!
> I like the Amulet idea but for one detail, if it occupies the standard neck slot, you'd be giving up a lot of power in the form of an enchanted necklace just for the one-time revive.
I think that's a fair trade, actually. When dungeon diving, do you want the power to possibly avoid death in the first place, or have a guaranteed revive? It's a trade-off that encourages more consideration about priorities.
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Note, I'm neither a modeler nor a texturer (probably not a real word). To make the dragon soul gem items more unique looking, I'd kindly ask for assistance.
Things to do:
* Eliminate the "you cannot equip this item" message when using elemental gems.
* New forging items?
* Looking into armor.
Working version preview:
* Set up a few totems (shout magnitude, general ward when blocking, concentrated poisons, and weapon effects).
* Eliminated the very static flame breath weapons in favor of a more flexible totem that works with all weapons.
* Need to retool the recipes. They were created in haste, and after a play through they feel a bit too intense. As a start, the flawless sapphire has been reduced to a regular sapphire, but I'll be building a spreadsheet to properly design the recipes.
* In test play throughs, the elemental gems were not useful to me. I'm seriously considering removing them entirely, so cast your votes if you want them to stay.
That said, I'm curious how it broke the game for you.
Mm... Sony is overcautious about scripted mods. Also the same reason PS4 isn't getting BS: Bruma.
Have fun on vacation though.
> Also, the only way I can think of bypassing the "cannot equip" message is classifying the item as food, potion, or ingredient. Funny, because I recall these already went through the potion phase, and got changed into gems.
You recall correctly. It started with gems, then went to potions, then back to gems. I'm currently doing a full play through of the game for purposes of testing the mod in a realistic manner. My results thus far are:
* I haven't felt any need or desire to craft the gems, so they've been added to a list of features that might be cut.
* The Dragon Aspect circlet has found a lot of use.
* The death amulet has found a lot of use and was the first thing I crafted.
* The fire breath weapons have proven useful and not too OP, though my smithing isn't at the higher tiers yet. However, for iron and steel, there's an extra boost of damage equivalent to a decent vanilla enchantment and it strikes me as level appropriate for the weapon material. Thumbs up so far.
* The recipes need work in terms of balancing. As an example, a Flawless Sapphire is one ingredient, and I forgot just how uncommon they are. I get the impression that most of the recipes demand early mid levels, which might defeat the purpose for things like the death amulet.
* Items can be disenchanted, but the learned enchantment may not be usable for subsequent enchanting. I haven't gotten a chance to test that in-game (I get distracted easily when actually playing), but if it's the case I'd be tempted to add support for proper consistency.
* The totem is technically in the mod (as of version 2.7), but it can only be acquired through the console. I haven't yet decided if I want to test it or wait to flesh out the totem system first.
Hm... yeah, it never occurred to me to try the breath weapons. Maybe I should give em a run. XD
The Aspect circlet is a cool touch as well.
The potions, well... they serve their purpose. No complaints with the existing ones. A thought for more potential unique potions did cross my mind however. Typically, shouts and powers are limited by a cooldown. However... if you had potions or poisons that did first-word or dampened variations of shouts or powers... that might open an avenue for players to invest dragon souls in. For example, if I am a Nord, my vanilla racial power would be Battlecry. If I had a potion created from... say... Orsimer blood (A vanilla item, interestingly...), Dragon Dust, and some other ingredient, I'd drink said potion and fall under the effect of the Orc racial ability, Berserk (Albeit slightly weaker than a true orc's Berserk).
This is only theoretical, though. Some racials might not be that good to turn into potion form... particularly the High Elven "Highborn," which basically is a strong version of a mana pot.
Mm... Sony is overcautious about scripted mods. Also the same reason PS4 isn't getting BS: Bruma.
Have fun on vacation though.
p.s. Back from vacation. A little sunburnt, but otherwise none the worse for the wear.
Given that it was essentially your idea, what would you like to see in terms of totems? Presently the implementation relies on presence of the totem (one or more) in the inventory. When "something" happens, a "charge" is subtracted from the totem. When all "charges" are exhausted, the totem (only one) is removed from the inventory.
My POC for the totem charges was a perk to boost magnitude of shouts (ironically a request from the PS4 users). When you shout, a charge is used, and the perk is applied when there's a non-zero number of totems in the inventory. So I know perks work with the system, and that totem will make it into the next release (console only though, until I solidify how I want things). A straight magic effect might be more awkward on the back end in terms of application and removal, but doable.
I do want to differentiate between usable items and automatic items with charges, much as I dislike the "you cannot equip this item" message, so the elemental gems would still fall under usable items rather than totems and fixing that is still on the to do list. Also, the logic of determining when to use a charge on the elemental cloaks has high probability of being ornery. The death amulet might make a good candidate, though I'm not dissatisfied with how it works presently.
Revive -- basically convert the amulet into a totem if you feel like it. For balance purposes, you'd need to limit this to 1 charge per totem. That directly means 1 dragon soul gem per crafted totem. It also means that before a tough battle, you have to decide how many souls you need to spend to create potential extra lives. It'll definitely make it more difficult to choose between crafting the totem or saving the soul for something else.
Prophecy -- Sleep while at least one Prophecy totem is in your Inventory. When you wake up, a message box will pop up telling you what you can expect to run into a given location for that day, and the totem will be gone. Then, run a script to guarantee that encounter in that location. Example textbox: "Your dream reveals danger in a Dwemer ruin." Result: When you enter a Dwemer ruin within the next 24 hours, a random encounter with a hostile NPC will occur inside. This might be fun, as Akatosh is the deity of time after all.
Subjugation -- Consumed on performing a Raise Dead spell on a target too powerful for it to raise. Reanimates the target for a limited time. (Works on targets that otherwise cannot be affected by Raise Dead. On death, the targets will still disintegrate into ash piles.
Ingestion -- When cannibalizing a target the totem is consumed, and you will appear to other people as that target, and inherit its faction and relationships to other NPCs. This effect lasts for 1 hour, or until you enter combat.
Also, the only way I can think of bypassing the "cannot equip" message is classifying the item as food, potion, or ingredient. Funny, because I recall these already went through the potion phase, and got changed into gems. XD Full circle?
You recall correctly. It started with gems, then went to potions, then back to gems. I'm currently doing a full play through of the game for purposes of testing the mod in a realistic manner. My results thus far are:
* I haven't felt any need or desire to craft the gems, so they've been added to a list of features that might be cut.
* The Dragon Aspect circlet has found a lot of use.
* The death amulet has found a lot of use and was the first thing I crafted.
* The fire breath weapons have proven useful and not too OP, though my smithing isn't at the higher tiers yet. However, for iron and steel, there's an extra boost of damage equivalent to a decent vanilla enchantment and it strikes me as level appropriate for the weapon material. Thumbs up so far.
* The recipes need work in terms of balancing. As an example, a Flawless Sapphire is one ingredient, and I forgot just how uncommon they are. I get the impression that most of the recipes demand early mid levels, which might defeat the purpose for things like the death amulet.
* Items can be disenchanted, but the learned enchantment may not be usable for subsequent enchanting. I haven't gotten a chance to test that in-game (I get distracted easily when actually playing), but if it's the case I'd be tempted to add support for proper consistency.
* The totem is technically in the mod (as of version 2.7), but it can only be acquired through the console. I haven't yet decided if I want to test it or wait to flesh out the totem system first.
It'll be a few days though. I'm currently on vacation with no access to the dev beast.
Great looking updates fella
I'm debating whether I want to release before figuring out the bugs with certain kill moves (giant slam, anyone?) or simply note it as a known issue.
The giant slam will launch you into oblivion (either by stomping or smashing with their club). This was probably an amusing bug that Bethesda chose to keep, but it wacks out scripts.
While everything would be fine perhaps 80% of the time, occasionally you'd ragdoll excessively *and take damage from it*. While in that state, you go into an infinite loop where OnEnterBleedout is called repetitively, and basically soft lock until manually reloading a save or removing the amulet that makes you essential. Prior to the amulet (version 2.0), the essential state was set in the OnInit of a quest, and you'd need to console out of it.
After many attempts to catch and resolve the problem directly in script, it occurred to me that since the problem is taking damage while ragdolling, why not just apply an ethereal effect with a duration for the longest fall I counted out during testing? A simple solution, but it works beautifully after being launched consecutively by giants for the better part of an hour.
The ethereal effect also accomplishes the same goal I had originally, which is to give the player time to escape if so desired. Previously I was doing that with a fear effect, and ethereal works just as well for the purpose.
Suffice it to say, this problem was a booger to troubleshoot.
It might be an engine thing, or I might find a clever way around it, time will tell.
Fair point, but I kind of see more weight in rabbie's statement. It's actually a fair trade in a hardcore sense, where, say for example, you play with SkyrimSouls and you cannot pause the game to swap items out in a pinch. In a classic playthrough though, when close to death, you can just hit the menu and equip the amulet. And in both cases, it is possible to hotkey the amulet anyway.
It's kind of like that feeling when you return to normal after a werewolf transformation, but naked. The feature is meant to feel like a tradeoff for the power of entering Beast Form, but it isn't, really, as the items are just in your inventory.
My one issue is the balance. These are way too cheap for my liking.
I use true dragonborn lite, which grants some passive bonus to keeping a hold of up to 100 dragon souls. It has more powerful variants, but i'm not about becoming OP, just a little extra.
I'll edit your mod to suit my own style, as the framework and idea behind it are amazing.
I'll probably go with the following changes;
Dragonborn Soul Fortify - Consumes 5 dragon souls for a 10 point increase to the player's choice of Health, Stamina, or Magicka.
1 Soul is too easy to come by to grant a whole 10
Dragonborn Soul Compress - Consumes 1 dragon soul in exchange for 1 filled dragon soul gem (equivalent to black soul gem).
1 to 1 ratio seems both logical and more balanced
Dragon Soul Gift - Consumes 1 dragon soul to learn one of the quest locked words.
Left this as it is, it's not granting any additional power, but it serves a solid purpose of allowing players to get faction-locked shouts, and i like that idea
Dragonborn Revival - On potential death, 3 dragon soul can be consumed to fully recover.
Again, it's not granting any additional power, just a nice way to avoid needing to quickload, in an immersive way, but 1 soul still feels too cheap for the life of the dragonborn, slight increase just to make it feel more earned.
Dragon Breath - Besides being fully functional soul gems, the dragon soul gem can be "equipped" from the inventory to apply one of three cloak spells (Flame, Frost, Lightning).
Left as is as the gems are tied to the compression spell
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Before anyone goes off on one, i want to state, i don't think my values are right and yours are wrong, it's just that "balance" is subjective, and is different for everyone, based on their mod list, their difficulty choices and just personal taste.
My suggestion to you, would be either to perhaps offer some variants, or expand on the configuration menu to allow costs to be altered in-game.
Thanks for this great mod either way, keep up the good work ^_^
Fair warning, these days I largely play as a non-dragonborn, so my memory on overflow of dragon souls is sketchy at best.
> 1 to 1 ratio seems both logical and more balanced
The problem is grand soul gems are relatively common even in the early mid levels, and lore-wise dragon souls are more powerful than an NPC soul. I have no problem changing things or making it configurable, but the default should be both balanced and make sense in the world.
> Left as is as the gems are tied to the compression spell
Dragon Breath is the one that I'm most iffy about. Granted the cloak is temporary and the equivalent of just casting the spell in exchange for a gem, I'm just not sure it makes sense from an immersion standpoint. If I could create a stronger soul gem than grand, I'd do so, but that seems hard coded into the engine.
In hindsight, I should have made the amounts global variables to facilitate ease of modification in xEdit (in lieu of an in-game configuration option, of course, since that's the ideal) without having to recompile scripts. My bad, and I'll likely correct that oversight shortly.
1. Soul gems can hold a single soul
or 2. A dragon soul can be 'split' across several gems
By the fact you've called them Dragon Gems, you are opening the door to the lore that a powerful mage has enchanted soul gems in a way to allow them to hold the souls of dragons, this lends itself to the 1:1 mentality.
Now on to the matter of them being more powerful, by giving them the utility as you have done so far with the cloak ability, you've also added to that lore, by saying that these enchanted dragon gems, when filled can be used in other ways than simple enchanting, but when crushed in the hand can grant you the power of the dragons, thus far in the form of cloaks.
This both explains the cloaks in an immersive and fitting way, while also giving a higher degree of power to the gems without it being about quantity.
If anything, i'd say add more options and expand on using the gems directly. It gives dragon hunters a way of gaining these abilities and using spells without needing to specialize in magic, which is always welcome when it's in a balanced way.
How about, and i know this may be ambitious or beyond the scope of what you're intending, but i'm just tossing some ideas out there.. a new crafting station for working with dragon gems.
When you use the compression spell, you get the gems as usual, now these can be used in lieu of grand gems or brought to this new station where you can imbue them for different on-use effects such as maybe;
Dragon gem of Fire - When used: Cast flame cloak, Grant x% fire damage and fire resistance for x seconds
Same as above for Lightning and Ice
Dragon gem of Speed - When used: Increase movement speed by x% for x seconds
Dragon gem of Force - When used: Increase damage with melee weapons by x% for x seconds
Dragon gem of Productivity - When used: Increase Smithing, Enchanting and Alchemy by x% for x seconds
And other such effects, This would not only add more utility and give non-crafting and non-magic types a way to gain these effects, but also bolster those that do, by giving alternative ways to add more to their arsenal. And by tying each gem to a single effect, you add to the immersion by removing the need for a message box and attached script, it would all be handled within the CK.
Just an idea as i say, and i mean, i'd gladly throw my hat in the ring and offer to ease the workload if it's something you feel you'd like to go ahead with.
As a start, I've already moved all of the literal values into global variables for the next version. Further, all but the attribute increase amount are configurable when toggling the corresponding spell or feature on. This should make the mod more usable for different balance preferences as well as simplify direct modifications in xEdit without having to recompile scripts.
Concerning more immersive use of the gems, those ideas are quite good. I'll look into it.
@rabbie86 You're right. A powerful mage would have had get involved in the discovery and/or creation of Dragon Gems. So if it helps... Neloth is arguably the most powerful mage in the game. Getting Tel Mithryn involved in future mechanics or interactions regarding the gems is probably a lore friendly way to path to take (My pitch was Atronach Forge interactions and recipes with the Dragon Gems).
But really, I think the challenge is in making the gems feel different mechanically from regular consumable potions or scrolls.
I'm not much of a modder outside of number tweaks, but I am a... decent... high fantasy writer. And I do love this mod. So I hope this helps.
Brings me to your script and your use of SetActorValue to add to the attribute, I'm curious why you've used this and not ModActorValue("Health", amount) instead. I'm not sure if i'm missing something though. Any thoughts on this? ^_^
That's a curious bug. To answer the question on function choice, SetActorValue applies the change to the base value rather than the current value. So it will ignore any other effects you have going such as a potion or fortify spell as well as include active effects in the result. Technically both should accomplish the same thing unless you're working in negatives or have a conflicting mod somewhere...somehow.
I'll play around with it to see if modav works better.
Anyways, having gotten that out of the way, i've uncovered a couple quirks in the update;
1. Revive Message is "Consume 1 dragon soul to keep fighting" regardless of actual cost, a minor oversight i assume, but then i got to thinking, why am i being asked if i want to survive? surely the idea is on of the dragons you've absorbed is sacrificing his soul to keep you alive in your hour of need, so i went ahead and dove into your Revive script and cut ' && ReviveMsg.Show() == 0' from the relevant conditional line, and removed the now unused "ReviveMsg property" and deleted the message in the CK. (personal preference thing really, the less message boxes i see, the better for immersion)
2. The standard config message for soul cost is only relevant to Soul Gift, "How many souls shall be consumed for each newly learned word?"
Simply cut, 'For each newly learned word' from the message to make it ambiguous, nice compact script there btw, i'd have probably gone with a book menu and it'd be adding much more to the mod, you achieve the same effect with a single message and a few lines of code, props
Welp, let's make it official then. I'll switch to ModActorValue for the next version and call it one of the quirks of the engine.
> Revive Message is "Consume 1 dragon soul to keep fighting" regardless of actual cost, a minor oversight i assume
Yep, that will be corrected. Good catch.
> why am i being asked if i want to survive?
It could go either way, to be honest. I favored never losing souls automatically. For example, early in the game you might want the option to revive during an important battle, but otherwise retain your souls for unlocking shouts. Being asked is more convenient than remembering to enable and disable the revival feature.
> Simply cut, 'For each newly learned word' from the message to make it ambiguous
Makes sense, I'll do so.
That way would keep both playstyles happy, eliminating a message box while maintaining control, though that could just be me, i'm biased against messageboxes
> i was just looking at it from the stance of, "why would i choose to die?" in an RP sense.
Indeed. From an RP sense there's no point in even asking the question. What I'd like to accomplish is reconciling potential RP play styles and the underlying fact that this *is* a game, and for a minor inconvenience loading the last save you could keep that soul for other uses.
It's funny you mention using the gem system, because I was toying with the idea of a craftable amulet using components derived from a dragon gem. When equipped, the revival system is active, and if revival occurs, the amulet is destroyed. That way there are no message boxes, the entire revival system occurs in-world, it's RP-friendly, and destruction of the amulet helps with game balance.
I think that's a fair trade, actually. When dungeon diving, do you want the power to possibly avoid death in the first place, or have a guaranteed revive? It's a trade-off that encourages more consideration about priorities.