Nukem's mod works on all the non-VR versions of Skyrim Special Edition from 1.5.97 - 1.6.659. Neither that one nor this mod is necessary for 1.6.1130 and newer.
I'm leaving this mod up for those who may be running Skyrim VR and have no other alternative. However do keep in mind that there are still many limitations to using this mod with unsupported plugin modules with Skyrim VR.
The update on Dec 5, 2023 to both the game EXE and Creation Kit brought with them a version change in the plugin header. This has to do with the change to support compacting FormIDs in the range of 0x001 - 0x7FF. Previously compacting a plugin for ESL usage only compacted in the range of 0x800 - 0xFFF which only provided a record space of 2048 instead of the 4095 that was "advertised" with the implementation of the light plugin system.
This SKSE plugin does what it advertises it does, which is allow older game exe versions to load plugins with the newer header version. However if those plugins are using FormIDs in the range of 0x001 - 0x7FF they may be have improperly. This is not a bug of this mod or the author of the mod being used. This is the limitation of using an old game version that does not properly support the newer produced content. Since the VR version of Skyrim Special Edition will doubtfully be updated, this will always be the case until Bethesda does so.
The behavior for Skyrim Special Edition versions 1.5.97 - 1.6.640 (I didn't bother to try testing further back) was to disallow use of forms in the 001-7FF range as new records. Typically they would be used only as hard coded overrides. There is sporadic behavior in the game exe's for different versions handling things in different ways if they weren't explicitly set as overrides of the hard coded FormID. An example: A new plugin creates a form, ID where it should be 0x4B000007. The engine would sometimes still treat it as an override of 0x00000007 even though it might be loaded as 0x4B000007. Other times it would just ignore the record entirely. And some other times it would cause a CTD on loading the plugin.
Wanted to do a quick follow up to say this mod lets me use the East Empire Expansion on game version 1.5.97.0, or at least doesn't feed me any errors or crash the game when starting it up and loading in. No idea about the other creations or the resource pack, but still.
That's... actually exactly what I wanted to know, thanks. Only one out of the bunch I'm interested in, and also a fan of kinggath so I was curious, but I'm also on 1.5.97.
Question, how exactly did you go about getting it? Upgrading, purchasing and then downgrading using the same best of both worlds patcher? I did of course do this back at the AE launch, but I'm a bit hesitant to do it this time as to not break something, because now it doesn't seem as clear and people don't seem as interesting in posting guides if this is indeed a thing, because I think too many people hate this update and paid mod concept.
I actually just renamed my Skyrim SE install, then uninstalled though steam (Steam thinking the folder still has the old name so it doesn't uninstall from the renamed folder), then installed a second install of the game that's fully up to date. Used that to buy the creation, then copied its files over into the renamed folder. After that I renamed the up to date install to "Skyrim Special Edition - AE" then changed the original install back to "Skyrim Special Edition". Also an easy way to downgrade is to just save a copy of the Steam API file and the Skyrim SE nd Launcher exes, then just copy those into any new installs of the game. I do wanna say straight up though that I don't know how actually functional the Creation is. So far I just know that having it installed and active doesn't crash the game, but I haven't actually started the content yet.
Well Kinggath said he used some of the new Papyrus functions in the scripts. So anywhere that it relies on those to function will fail. It may not be right away. So just be warned. It's also possibly something that is a permanent break. So recovering from that may require going back to a save before installing it.
I was curious to see what was in this "marketplace". I am on GOG now, so I had to download a separate STEAM install (which I will delete shortly) to see what's what. Nothing worth buying that can't be had for free. About what I expected.
Worst case I'll just remove EEE from my load order for now (Which would mean having to redo LODgen again :SobbingEmoji:) until I eventually move up to a current version of the game.
Bethesda introduced four new engine papyrus functions in 1.6.1130. These are currently unimplemented. This will be addressed in the next day or two with a mod update.
Absolutely based. Now I don't need to change anything about my load order (Fingers crossed that JK's Whiterun Outskirts plays well with EEE's camp out there lmao)
- Error: This plugin contains records that have FormIDs outside the valid range for an ESL plugin\. Using this plugin will cause irreversible damage to your game saves\.
Can and should I disable this plugin? Wasn't a problem before, think it came with the update.
You are correct. The _ResourcePack.esl came with the 1.6.1130 update. It contains FormIDs in the 001-7FF range which was unsupported prior to the 1.6.1130 update. Using just this mod they are still considered unsupported. However Nukem just released a backport SKSE DLL to deal with this issue. See the new top sticky post. If you use Nukem's DLL you do not need this one.
LOOT will give the error until someone changes LOOT. It doesn't have any way of knowing if you're using it with a compatible system though. So it's unlikely they will change it. That being said, if you're using Nukem's plugin then in this instance you can ignore that message FOR THAT FILE.
For other files you need to understand which IDs they're using and in what sense they're out of range. If an author loaded a .esp with the ESL flag in CreationKit and made changes to the file, it may have made IDs higher than FFF which will trigger that message from LOOT also. Those are wholly incompatible with anything and must never be used in that state. An author could detect if that's the case by removing the ESL flag with xEdit. Closing and saving. Then loading the plugin and adding the ESL flag back. This will cause xEdit to refuse to save if the IDs are in an invalid range for the ESL flag.
Correct. Nukem's plugin does what this does and more for normal Skyrim Special Edition. I don't believe Nukem was going to address VR. VR doesn't support ESL so there's more code necessary to try and make things work there. All this mod would do for VR is make it so you don't have to edit the HEDR version. But it does nothing to deal with FormIDs out of the valid range, or the new Papyrus functions.
Not reliably. Using any of the old creation content yes. But any new content may have FormIDs in the lower range that is unsupported on the old game EXEs, or they may use new script code functions. One such creation is Kinggath's East Empire Expansion.
So, what might be a problem is the mods I install, right? The game opens without CC content mods. So will I have to check it by starting the game every time I install a mod? Thanks for your efforts, by the way. I would like to thank all the mod authors who worked hard to enable us to play the game with the new update.
The more appropriate method would be to use the (hopefully soon to come) new xEdit build 4.1.5b which will support the 1.71 HEDR. Then look through any plugins to see if any of them have FormIDs in the 001-7FF range. I have an xEdit script I setup so it will apply a custom filter to just show you all plugins with records in that range. Whether new or overrides. That way it makes it easier (hopefully) to identify 2 things:
Any plugin modules which have new records in the range that are not backward compatible.
Any plugin module that might have an incorrect HEDR version which will possibly be identified by having override records in the noted range.
It would be awesome if it were possible to make an SKSE Plugin that would allow the 1.71 formID range in all versions. But If it were possible I feel like it would have happened by now. This might be the thing that finally gets me to move off of version 1.5.97. Been holding on for only like two mods I have refused to give up on, but they have counter parts now so I have no reason other than laziness at this point...
Once I can be certain all my SKSE plugins will work I'd like to be on the latest. There are several that would need to be recompiled so I'm sure once the CommonLib NG is updated either the authors will recompile and put up an update or I'll have to recompile the dll's myself.
Either way I really like the idea of having another 2024 records possible for ESL's. So I'll likely be going through my massive mod list and making as many esp's into esl's as possible. I have an idea for an MO2 plugin that will help keep all these conversions inline so I can make sure to make them ESL's again if they ever have updates.
Well even if someone made a DLL mod that could backport the range improvement. There's still the issue of the new Papyrus functions. At least one of the new creations (Kinggath's EEE) uses some of those. So even getting around the HEDR version, and ensuring it isn't using forms out of range. It wouldn't function because the Papyrus functions it needs won't be in the older files.
100 comments
Nukem's Backported Extended ESL Support
Nukem's mod works on all the non-VR versions of Skyrim Special Edition from 1.5.97 - 1.6.659. Neither that one nor this mod is necessary for 1.6.1130 and newer.
I'm leaving this mod up for those who may be running Skyrim VR and have no other alternative. However do keep in mind that there are still many limitations to using this mod with unsupported plugin modules with Skyrim VR.
This SKSE plugin does what it advertises it does, which is allow older game exe versions to load plugins with the newer header version. However if those plugins are using FormIDs in the range of 0x001 - 0x7FF they may be have improperly. This is not a bug of this mod or the author of the mod being used. This is the limitation of using an old game version that does not properly support the newer produced content. Since the VR version of Skyrim Special Edition will doubtfully be updated, this will always be the case until Bethesda does so.
The behavior for Skyrim Special Edition versions 1.5.97 - 1.6.640 (I didn't bother to try testing further back) was to disallow use of forms in the 001-7FF range as new records. Typically they would be used only as hard coded overrides. There is sporadic behavior in the game exe's for different versions handling things in different ways if they weren't explicitly set as overrides of the hard coded FormID. An example: A new plugin creates a form, ID where it should be 0x4B000007. The engine would sometimes still treat it as an override of 0x00000007 even though it might be loaded as 0x4B000007. Other times it would just ignore the record entirely. And some other times it would cause a CTD on loading the plugin.
No idea about the other creations or the resource pack, but still.
Question, how exactly did you go about getting it? Upgrading, purchasing and then downgrading using the same best of both worlds patcher? I did of course do this back at the AE launch, but I'm a bit hesitant to do it this time as to not break something, because now it doesn't seem as clear and people don't seem as interesting in posting guides if this is indeed a thing, because I think too many people hate this update and paid mod concept.
Used that to buy the creation, then copied its files over into the renamed folder.
After that I renamed the up to date install to "Skyrim Special Edition - AE" then changed the original install back to "Skyrim Special Edition".
Also an easy way to downgrade is to just save a copy of the Steam API file and the Skyrim SE nd Launcher exes, then just copy those into any new installs of the game.
I do wanna say straight up though that I don't know how actually functional the Creation is. So far I just know that having it installed and active doesn't crash the game, but I haven't actually started the content yet.
(Which would mean having to redo LODgen again :SobbingEmoji:)until I eventually move up to a current version of the game.One thing does have me slightly concerned though. Loot is giving me the following message:
# _ResourcePack.esl
- CRC: F1D937AC
- Attributes: Master Plugin, Light Plugin, Loads Archive
- Group: Creation Club
## Messages
- Error: This plugin contains records that have FormIDs outside the valid range for an ESL plugin\. Using this plugin will cause irreversible damage to your game saves\.
Can and should I disable this plugin? Wasn't a problem before, think it came with the update.
For other files you need to understand which IDs they're using and in what sense they're out of range. If an author loaded a .esp with the ESL flag in CreationKit and made changes to the file, it may have made IDs higher than FFF which will trigger that message from LOOT also. Those are wholly incompatible with anything and must never be used in that state. An author could detect if that's the case by removing the ESL flag with xEdit. Closing and saving. Then loading the plugin and adding the ESL flag back. This will cause xEdit to refuse to save if the IDs are in an invalid range for the ESL flag.
Now we just need something similar to use with CK, so we can open version 1.710000 plugins on older CK versions
Either way I really like the idea of having another 2024 records possible for ESL's. So I'll likely be going through my massive mod list and making as many esp's into esl's as possible. I have an idea for an MO2 plugin that will help keep all these conversions inline so I can make sure to make them ESL's again if they ever have updates.