I'm reading the comments. I don't know which way SAIM will evolve, but i'm sure your ideas are inspiring me.
As a side note, i inform you that i won't engage in online arguments about mental health. I simply don't want to. This mod is inspired by the cosmic horror idea of insanity and a fantasy medieval approach on how to treat it.
2.1.2 and Standalone are OUT! CRAFT A PHIAL OF SANITY NOW!
People suffering from schizophrenia are actually less likely to commit violent crimes and are more likely to be victims of those crimes than people without the condition. These conditions are very serious and real, as are the people suffering from them. This mod is disrespectful to a group of people who already live an extremely hard, isolated life.
I get your point, but I wouldn't blame the mod author nor accuse him of being disrespectful. I mean, lobotomy was a very medieval way of treating patients, which were sometimes believed to be possessed more than mentaly ill, so, I'd say the lobotomy stuff seems pretty fiting in this very context, even if still being more harmful than doing any good. And, I mean, would you really think the man did this on PURPOSE just to be an asshole to people suffering from mental disorders or diseases? Come on. His intent is just to implement some new mechanics to the game, and I'm pretty sure he's found some inspiration in stuff like Amnesia and Outlast, games which use very distorted views on mental health and how to deal with madness for the sake of GAMEPLAY. Don't be a butthurt and seeking malevolence where there's none, let's just chill and enjoy the game <3
I'm not educated enough on the topic to comment one way or the other but I will say that you (DustDragonsLair) may wish to nix the "butthurt" comment next time. Up until that point your message read rather understandingly and thought out but your last sentence threw my understanding of your intent into question. I don't think you had any malicious intent with it, just a thought for the future.
I will say however also, while I don't think bad intention was meant on the part of the mod author, I do also understand d4em's stance here as well. It is one thing to use a real world issue (mental health in general, schizophrenia specifically if it is used in the mod) for darker themes or "immersion", it is another entirely if your mechanic to "cure or help it" involves an incredibly dangerous and unhelpful act (lobotomy) and then you have it Work in said game, this creates the in world message of "Lobotomy helps with loss of Sanity", which we all know isn't true and I'm sure the mod author again knows this too, but it still can feel weird. On just a narrative level, do we just accept that in universe as our characters or question why magic, alchemy potions and other fantastical happenings can't solve the dilemna? I don't think the author meant anything bad by it and I don't particularly see a need to download the mod because of the lobotomy tools and that's a shame because I liked the idea of having something to deal with and fight through in the game, maybe even come out having a better understanding of what others go through in the real world (if it of course was mimicing the real world). I also don't think there is anything wrong with voicing displeasure of the mod either, so long as insults or slurs aren't being thrown around (d4em's post did neither of these things, their post was well said and critiqued the mod, Not the author). I hope everyone will be respectful in here, the Mod is promising and would be a download for me to try out if the lobotomy tools part was replaced with other alternatives that would realistically help. And yes 'magic' counts as realistically helping when done in a world of magic, dragons and people winning battles by shouting at eachother ;) Otherwise it's about as "helpful" as sticking your hand in a beehive... it isn't.
Additional edit: Some have posited further down that one such way to improve sanity is to complete certain quests as an example. I think that's a great idea! I'd also add another possible way to improve sanity to be getting a relationship level increase with an NPC, "Oh hell yeah, I made a new friend!". That said maybe not for a relationship increase that comes from hiring mercs, isn't really the same thing plus it may make things too easy. I don't know how hard that would be though, just an idea.
d4em is right. i imagine lots of people would spill ink to justify this but fundamentally this is following a long trend of bad representation, and it would be good to have that in mind when you explore these themes. i'll still consider getting this mod, but you don't have to blind yourself to that to enjoy it in my opinion.
also: 'Don't be a butthurt and seeking malevolence where there's none, let's just chill and enjoy the game <3' (and the rest of it really) annoying and pathetic to be quite honest!
DustDragonsLair Lobotomy was most definitely NOT a medieval thing. The earliest ideas about lobotomy started in the second part of the XIX century. Also it was practiced on the "insane" often against their will.
The fact that the author did not mean to be an @sshole should not stop anyone from pointing out the mistake, especially if it comes from ignorance. The point is not that it is offensive, but rather that it is dangerous. This sort of thing (making a mod about self-harm and gamifying it) is exactly what should be avoided when treating these topics. for the sake of players who suffer from it.
Regading the rest of your arguments, other people have already responded.
I'm sorry nightmare2004, I was saying ''don't be a butthurt'' not targeting anyone in particular, I wanted to convey the idea of ''come on let's all be respectful and not force intents on others'', but I can understand that my sentence wasn't clear enough ><
Daidojc I didn't mean ''medieval'' as in medieval medieval xD Maybe it's only in my first language (French), but saying something is ''medieval'' can also mean ''barbaric'', ''backward'', ''archaic'', etc
But who are you all to say that he commited a mistake? What if he wanted it that way, using the torture and the lobotomy stuff? I mean you are all trying to point fingers and speak of his so-called ''ignorance'' on the matter, but the only people arguing over things and motives you don't know two shits about are you =/ So ok, I'm ''pathetic'', apparently, but at least I'm not going out my way to play the know-it-all and telling a guy he's wrong doing what he does because it doesn't suit you or your minuscule capacity of disociating a game and attempts of gameplay mechanics from reality?
Ok, we can talk about it but why are people being pissed over that kinda stuff? It's a mod, with OBVIOUS overkill mechanics just to create uneasiness and play with a very dark and gloomy vision on madness, not an accurate historical pamphlet
DustDragonsLair: I understand now, and after all this time looking back at these comments I think my earlier interpretation of your post and how I responded to you was unfair. I am sorry. Also looking back after all these months, my long winded post is making me cringe from how "holier then thou" I came across. I definitely could've trimmed that down a loooooooot.
I'm also happy to see this mod has had updates. Thank you Summon Dremora Mistress mod for tipping me off to the Addon Hub :D. I appreciate all of the changes and additions you've made Hydraaawr, I'm excited to give this a try.
I haven't had the chance yet sadly, still figuring out my final load order (laughs internally). I did remember a mod I enjoyed and I wanted to offer it as a suggestion for anyone interested, (I don't know if this is poor etiquette to do or not, so I'm sorry if it is). It's the Occult Texture Pack mod and it has a couple of different things, but the main one I thought would fit nicely with this mod were the ones that changes the moon's texture.
I don't know for sure if being outside at night itself can cause a loss of sanity with this mod (it seems like it from the description if I'm reading it right), but if it does, well... a giant eye ball moon towering over you at night would certainly be a good reason to be a bit on edge ;)
It has other moon textures too if your not into that level of horror or if it doesn't fit your playthrough: a cosmic looking green one and an eye of magnus looking one. Should scratch someone's "cosmic glory/horror" itch for sure.
I'm sorry not.06.02.24:YES IT DOES. A mix of ignorance and bad debugging led me to that reply. SAIM and Addons are compatible with 1.5.97 and AE. I'm sorry.
Ah, that explains why I haven't seen anything in game. Do you know if it's safe to uninstall midgame on version 1.5.97? Nvm gonna restart my playthrough anyways so no worries. If I ever update I my game I'll be excited to check this out, thank you for sharing your hard work with us!!
Would be so cool if your sanity decreased upon seeing dead bodies, and burying them (maybe integrating with Shovels Bury Bodies?) restored some sanity. If anyone's played Rimworld they'd get what I mean :)
These could also lower sanity: - If you get a letter of inheritance from an NPC with relationship rank Ally or higher (higher relationship = more sanity loss) - Reading Black Books or spending time in Apocrypha - Eating raw food
I absolutely LOVE mods like this so I am giving it a try. I am hoping you plan on upgrading it further, maybe with some hallucination effects like seeing/hearing dragons pass by and quickly disappear, floating ghosts that you cant destroy, random children that turns into enemies as you approach them, etc etc. Theres so many possibilities with mods like this, and this is like the only one I see still being worked on so.
The dragon thing could be cool. It could be a great lore idea too. Like you become more mad if you engage with dragons and can hear them or dragon priests. Can do a idea with ghosts too. Anything audio is better though as visual can be really hard for some people. I think it’s okay as long as there is no screen flickering.
Hallucination with dragons would fit well since you play as Dragonborn who is hunted by dragons all the time so when losing his sanity he would be paranoid and hear/see dragons everywhere. Maybe even inside dungeons and interiors as well, since its areas you dont expect dragons. Hallucinating people, spiders, characters you killed, etc would all be great too. Personally I think visual hallucinations would make the mod 10x better but I admit that horror stuff doesnt affect me that much, so maybe other people wouldnt like that. There are already a couple mods that do stuff like that but they are old and broken, which is a shame. Heres hoping this one can replace them.
When does the quest start exactly? In the preview video it shows it starting when entering Riverwood. It didn't start for me at Riverwood or venturing around those select farms & locations at night. I'm playing on SE version 1.5.97 with the Dark Brotherhood version of this mod. I also have the Dark Brotherhood mod Your Choices Matter mod. I went to Windhelm, went into Aretino's house, talked to him, got his Brotherhood quest. But still nothing triggering from this mod?
I'm sorry this is happening to you. Have you murdered someone during your playthrough? Enter your general stats and make sure murder count is at 0. SAIM quest is designed to not trigger if the character has murdered before the quest tells him so.
96 comments
I'm reading the comments. I don't know which way SAIM will evolve, but i'm sure your ideas are inspiring me.
As a side note, i inform you that i won't engage in online arguments about mental health. I simply don't want to.
This mod is inspired by the cosmic horror idea of insanity and a fantasy medieval approach on how to treat it.
CRAFT A PHIAL OF SANITY NOW!
AlSO CHECK SANITY - ADDON HUB
💫💖Family Friendly Patch💖💫 is now available for those who don't want the trepanation mechanic in their game
Thank you so much,
Hydraaawr
Been learning and waiting for inspiration these past few months...time to put them to good use
I will say however also, while I don't think bad intention was meant on the part of the mod author, I do also understand d4em's stance here as well. It is one thing to use a real world issue (mental health in general, schizophrenia specifically if it is used in the mod) for darker themes or "immersion", it is another entirely if your mechanic to "cure or help it" involves an incredibly dangerous and unhelpful act (lobotomy) and then you have it Work in said game, this creates the in world message of "Lobotomy helps with loss of Sanity", which we all know isn't true and I'm sure the mod author again knows this too, but it still can feel weird. On just a narrative level, do we just accept that in universe as our characters or question why magic, alchemy potions and other fantastical happenings can't solve the dilemna?
I don't think the author meant anything bad by it and I don't particularly see a need to download the mod because of the lobotomy tools and that's a shame because I liked the idea of having something to deal with and fight through in the game, maybe even come out having a better understanding of what others go through in the real world (if it of course was mimicing the real world). I also don't think there is anything wrong with voicing displeasure of the mod either, so long as insults or slurs aren't being thrown around (d4em's post did neither of these things, their post was well said and critiqued the mod, Not the author).
I hope everyone will be respectful in here, the Mod is promising and would be a download for me to try out if the lobotomy tools part was replaced with other alternatives that would realistically help. And yes 'magic' counts as realistically helping when done in a world of magic, dragons and people winning battles by shouting at eachother ;) Otherwise it's about as "helpful" as sticking your hand in a beehive... it isn't.
Additional edit: Some have posited further down that one such way to improve sanity is to complete certain quests as an example. I think that's a great idea! I'd also add another possible way to improve sanity to be getting a relationship level increase with an NPC, "Oh hell yeah, I made a new friend!". That said maybe not for a relationship increase that comes from hiring mercs, isn't really the same thing plus it may make things too easy. I don't know how hard that would be though, just an idea.
also: 'Don't be a butthurt and seeking malevolence where there's none, let's just chill and enjoy the game <3' (and the rest of it really) annoying and pathetic to be quite honest!
The fact that the author did not mean to be an @sshole should not stop anyone from pointing out the mistake, especially if it comes from ignorance. The point is not that it is offensive, but rather that it is dangerous. This sort of thing (making a mod about self-harm and gamifying it) is exactly what should be avoided when treating these topics. for the sake of players who suffer from it.
Regading the rest of your arguments, other people have already responded.
But who are you all to say that he commited a mistake? What if he wanted it that way, using the torture and the lobotomy stuff? I mean you are all trying to point fingers and speak of his so-called ''ignorance'' on the matter, but the only people arguing over things and motives you don't know two shits about are you =/ So ok, I'm ''pathetic'', apparently, but at least I'm not going out my way to play the know-it-all and telling a guy he's wrong doing what he does because it doesn't suit you or your minuscule capacity of disociating a game and attempts of gameplay mechanics from reality?
Ok, we can talk about it but why are people being pissed over that kinda stuff? It's a mod, with OBVIOUS overkill mechanics just to create uneasiness and play with a very dark and gloomy vision on madness, not an accurate historical pamphlet
I'm also happy to see this mod has had updates. Thank you Summon Dremora Mistress mod for tipping me off to the Addon Hub :D. I appreciate all of the changes and additions you've made Hydraaawr, I'm excited to give this a try.
I don't know for sure if being outside at night itself can cause a loss of sanity with this mod (it seems like it from the description if I'm reading it right), but if it does, well... a giant eye ball moon towering over you at night would certainly be a good reason to be a bit on edge ;)
It has other moon textures too if your not into that level of horror or if it doesn't fit your playthrough: a cosmic looking green one and an eye of magnus looking one. Should scratch someone's "cosmic glory/horror" itch for sure.
I'm sorry not.06.02.24: YES IT DOES. A mix of ignorance and bad debugging led me to that reply. SAIM and Addons are compatible with 1.5.97 and AE. I'm sorry.Ah, that explains why I haven't seen anything in game. Do you know if it's safe to uninstall midgame on version 1.5.97?Nvm gonna restart my playthrough anyways so no worries. If I ever update I my game I'll be excited to check this out, thank you for sharing your hard work with us!!These could also lower sanity:
- If you get a letter of inheritance from an NPC with relationship rank Ally or higher (higher relationship = more sanity loss)
- Reading Black Books or spending time in Apocrypha
- Eating raw food
I have an idea for this mod though: is it possible to exclude effects of nighttime adventuring for any character that has Nightvision as an ability?
Theres so many possibilities with mods like this, and this is like the only one I see still being worked on so.
Personally I think visual hallucinations would make the mod 10x better but I admit that horror stuff doesnt affect me that much, so maybe other people wouldnt like that.
There are already a couple mods that do stuff like that but they are old and broken, which is a shame. Heres hoping this one can replace them.
Have you murdered someone during your playthrough? Enter your general stats and make sure murder count is at 0.
SAIM quest is designed to not trigger if the character has murdered before the quest tells him so.