If you have technical questions about Max-SU Poise:
Keep in mind that this is just a preset / settings file for Max-SU Poise to set up good poise values. If you have any technical problems or compatibility issues with other mods, it's best to ask the author of Max-SU Poise.
I understand that it's harder to use github for communication, so if you want you can still ask technical questions here -- just keep in mind that I may not answer personally if I don't know the answer, but if you're lucky another community member may see the question and know the answer.
(And if you find the answer to your own question - answer it so it may be of help to others)
Sorry for dumb question it's my first time trying to play around with MaxsuPoise, but what exactly does the mod "MaxPoise patch" mod on the requirement list does and what if I do not use it along with this preset? The description on that page is just very confusing to me.
it's optional, and up to you if you want it or not (the very bottom of the patch's description page says what it does). I wanted to link it here because it also comes with an excel spreadsheet that has been extremely useful for calculating stagger thresholds and values when setting up custom values for MaxSU poise.
i'm probably misunderstanding something, im using the second preset on this mod and for some reason it didn't act at all the way i was expecting it to. I was getting large-staggered left and right while i could only hope to stun anything else using a power attack, granted i was using a sword, but still
i've thoroughly read through the documentation of maxsu's poise overhaul and i can't really seem to find anything in the formula relating to a system that triggers small/medium/large staggers after a certain amount of hits, only the largest stagger when poise health decreases to 0.
the maxsupoise documentation says that stagger level trigger is determined by "poise damage done / *total* poise health", so if i understand correctly that means that if you, let's say, have 100 max poise health and the small stagger threshold is 20%, you'd have to do at least 20 poise damage in a single hit to trigger a small stagger, or is it 20 poise damage before the regen delay ends or something?...
Yeah, poise damage and stagger thresholds are based on your poise health after having taken a hit. When making this preset, I used a spreadsheet to calculate the values to translate "poise health + damage taken" into "hits taken based on weapon used + armor worn", so that different weapon types end up in a sort of tier list of how good they are at staggering. And when it comes to armor, the more armor pieces the better, but with chest pieces mattering the most as they make up for most of the armor.
Buuut... One thing I realized after trying several different poise mods, was that there is no perfect one and I had to lower my expectations. For example, with MaxSU poise, the mass and scale of both the player and enemy NPCs/enemies are compared and taken into account... which like.. how are you as the player going to be able to visualize that? So poise may still feel inconsistent at times due to the amount of variables involved. IMO these poise systems would be so much better if they could just stick to a simple calculation.
let's say, have 100 max poise health and the small stagger threshold is 20%, you'd have to do at least 20 poise damage in a single hit to trigger a small stagger, or is it 20 poise damage before the regen delay ends or something?...
Your poise health doesn't immediately regenerate, so you can get staggered in multiple small hits. A single hit doesn't have to reach the stagger threshold on it's own.
Thanks for the reply, yeah when posting this comment i completely forgot that my character's scale was lower than usual, even a 0,1 scale difference makes the whole stagger system turn against you. It would be great if maxsu did away with that.
Yeah, poise damage and stagger thresholds are based on your poise health after having taken a hit.
This is what's confusing me because the official document says that it's only based on max poise health - as does it say so in the source code
auto totalPoiseHealth = PoiseHealthHandler::GetTotalPoiseHealth(target); auto currentPoiseHealth = PoiseHealthHandler::GetCurrentPoiseHealth(target); auto poiseDamage = PoiseDamageCalculator::GetWeaponPoiseDamage(a_hitData); currentPoiseHealth -= poiseDamage;
auto staggerLevel = GetStaggerLevel(poiseDamage / totalPoiseHealth);
not current poise health, obviously if you divide 5 by 100 you're always gonna get 0.05 no matter how many times you hit someone, so then if your minimum stagger threshold is 0.20, a weapon doing below 20 stagger damage should never stagger (i know the numbers in your .ini are different but i'm just using 100 for easy calculations)
also i dug through the source code a couple times and i did find which part calculates stagger based on mass and scale, i might be able to delete that part of the mod myself
From what you posted, that code is calling a few different methods. I haven't read the source code myself, but there could be more calculations done within those methods beyond the variables that are passed into them.
Based on the names of the methods, it seems to me like the code you posted does this: 1. calls the method to get the value for total poise health. 2. calls the method to get the value for current poise health. 3. calls the method to calculate poise damage. 4. subtracts the calculated damage from current poise health. 5. calls the method to calculate stagger level with (poiseDamage / totalPoiseHealth) as the argument.
You'd have to look within the GetStaggerLevel method to see how it's calculating the stagger level. it could potentially still be using more values than just what's passed into the method. It'd be weird to me if it's calculating the CurrentPoisehealth variable in previous methods if it wouldn't be using it anywhere.
(from my experience in-game it does seem like CurrentPoiseHealth matters, if you see some of the gifs posted in the Images section here, the stagger I take increases with more hits)
Thank you so much for the preset! But I have some doubts during the game: First of all, it seems that some of the enemy's attacks will not cause any poise damage to me, whether it is a light attack or a heavy attack. Second, when my light armor or heavy armor level is higher, the poise damage I receive is reduced a lot.
With Max-SU poise, the damage calculation takes weapon type, armor, and other variables into account. Even character mass/scale, so not every enemy will have equal ability to cause a stagger.
I couldn't find a way to add a bar for TrueHUD either.
But then again, Dark Souls or Elden Ring don't have a visible poise bar either, so it doesn't bother me much. To me it's more important that the poise system itself actually works and uses proper calculations, which is why I gave up on Chocolate and Loki's
Hey whats up ! I'm running into i guess a issue. I can only and receive Small Stagger. I can't perform or getting stagger medium or heavy ( i tacked it in the Animation Log ). I got all requierement i still looking for fixing. If i miss something or if you know the miracle solution ....
It's meant to be used together with other mods to make it closer to souls-like gameplay. With a mod that makes attacking cost stamina, you won't be able to stagger lock infinitely since you'll have to worry about managing your stamina.
And when it comes to receiving hits, I personally I don't like stagger protection. I want to be able to get overwhelmed if I'm pummeled by multiple enemies at once, rather than getting stagger protection and being able to roll away even tho I'm actively taking multiple hits.
If you want stagger protection on, it's a quick and easy change tho :)
Yeah that makes sense, thank you. I tried it with Valhalla but I can just keep attacking and stagger lock my enemy because that mod doesn't prevent you from attacking when you stamina reaches 0, it just lowers you damage output. Now I need to find a mod that prevent you from attacking when your stamina reaches 0, I tried but didn't find any, maybe Fenix's stamina overhaul, but that only works for 1.5.97 and I'm on a 1500 mods AE modlist :(
Yeah... I tried Valhalla at one point. Great mod, but it was doing too many things at once for my taste, which made it hard to combine with other combat mods. I try to find simple mods that each do a single thing; (one mod for poise, another mod for stamina management, yet another mod for shield stamina blocking, etc) I couldn't figure out a good solution for 1.6.640, seems like there's more support for 1.5.97 so I decided to restart my modding journey and downgraded my game so I could use Fenix Stamina Overhaul and other 1.5.97 mods
Turned off Valhalla's light stamina system Increased Valhalla's stamina debuff to 0 damage using xEdit Slowed down Valhalla's stamina regen Made attacks cost a lot more stamina with the mod Conditional Stamina Costs
Now while I'm out of stamina and still recovering from Valhalla's debuff my attacks won't damage any npc, so I have to stop attacking and recover. I think it works well and saved me a lot of time that I'd waste to revert mods back to 1.5.97.
Would it be possible to get detection for effects like flesh spells in this mod, or would it require changes in MaxsuPoise itself? Did some testing to see if flesh spells took any body slots since I saw the ini has multipliers for different slots, but it looks like flesh spells don't take any. The preset is great btw and a 1.6 version of MaxsuPoise is up for anyone who didn't know.
53 comments
Keep in mind that this is just a preset / settings file for Max-SU Poise to set up good poise values.
If you have any technical problems or compatibility issues with other mods, it's best to ask the author of Max-SU Poise.
I understand that it's harder to use github for communication, so if you want you can still ask technical questions here -- just keep in mind that I may not answer personally if I don't know the answer, but if you're lucky another community member may see the question and know the answer.
(And if you find the answer to your own question - answer it so it may be of help to others)
I wanted to link it here because it also comes with an excel spreadsheet that has been extremely useful for calculating stagger thresholds and values when setting up custom values for MaxSU poise.
SkyHorizon3/MaxsuPoise (github.com)
Edit: It's 0.31 and not the newest 0.32, but that update is not very important anyway.
Release MaxsuPoise-v0.31 AE · SkyHorizon3/MaxsuPoise · GitHub
i've thoroughly read through the documentation of maxsu's poise overhaul and i can't really seem to find anything in the formula relating to a system that triggers small/medium/large staggers after a certain amount of hits, only the largest stagger when poise health decreases to 0.
the maxsupoise documentation says that stagger level trigger is determined by "poise damage done / *total* poise health", so if i understand correctly that means that if you, let's say, have 100 max poise health and the small stagger threshold is 20%, you'd have to do at least 20 poise damage in a single hit to trigger a small stagger, or is it 20 poise damage before the regen delay ends or something?...
When making this preset, I used a spreadsheet to calculate the values to translate "poise health + damage taken" into "hits taken based on weapon used + armor worn", so that different weapon types end up in a sort of tier list of how good they are at staggering. And when it comes to armor, the more armor pieces the better, but with chest pieces mattering the most as they make up for most of the armor.
Buuut... One thing I realized after trying several different poise mods, was that there is no perfect one and I had to lower my expectations. For example, with MaxSU poise, the mass and scale of both the player and enemy NPCs/enemies are compared and taken into account... which like.. how are you as the player going to be able to visualize that? So poise may still feel inconsistent at times due to the amount of variables involved. IMO these poise systems would be so much better if they could just stick to a simple calculation.
This is what's confusing me because the official document says that it's only based on max poise health - as does it say so in the source code
not current poise health, obviously if you divide 5 by 100 you're always gonna get 0.05 no matter how many times you hit someone, so then if your minimum stagger threshold is 0.20, a weapon doing below 20 stagger damage should never stagger (i know the numbers in your .ini are different but i'm just using 100 for easy calculations)
also i dug through the source code a couple times and i did find which part calculates stagger based on mass and scale, i might be able to delete that part of the mod myself
Based on the names of the methods, it seems to me like the code you posted does this:
1. calls the method to get the value for total poise health.
2. calls the method to get the value for current poise health.
3. calls the method to calculate poise damage.
4. subtracts the calculated damage from current poise health.
5. calls the method to calculate stagger level with (poiseDamage / totalPoiseHealth) as the argument.
You'd have to look within the GetStaggerLevel method to see how it's calculating the stagger level.
it could potentially still be using more values than just what's passed into the method. It'd be weird to me if it's calculating the CurrentPoisehealth variable in previous methods if it wouldn't be using it anywhere.
(from my experience in-game it does seem like CurrentPoiseHealth matters, if you see some of the gifs posted in the Images section here, the stagger I take increases with more hits)
But, the answer for me is to just use a poise mod that works, so back to chocolate
But then again, Dark Souls or Elden Ring don't have a visible poise bar either, so it doesn't bother me much. To me it's more important that the poise system itself actually works and uses proper calculations, which is why I gave up on Chocolate and Loki's
How is bashing accounted for here?
I'm running into i guess a issue.
I can only and receive Small Stagger. I can't perform or getting stagger medium or heavy ( i tacked it in the Animation Log ).
I got all requierement i still looking for fixing.
If i miss something or if you know the miracle solution ....
Thanks !
And when it comes to receiving hits, I personally I don't like stagger protection. I want to be able to get overwhelmed if I'm pummeled by multiple enemies at once, rather than getting stagger protection and being able to roll away even tho I'm actively taking multiple hits.
If you want stagger protection on, it's a quick and easy change tho :)
I couldn't figure out a good solution for 1.6.640, seems like there's more support for 1.5.97 so I decided to restart my modding journey and downgraded my game so I could use Fenix Stamina Overhaul and other 1.5.97 mods
Turned off Valhalla's light stamina system
Increased Valhalla's stamina debuff to 0 damage using xEdit
Slowed down Valhalla's stamina regen
Made attacks cost a lot more stamina with the mod Conditional Stamina Costs
Now while I'm out of stamina and still recovering from Valhalla's debuff my attacks won't damage any npc, so I have to stop attacking and recover. I think it works well and saved me a lot of time that I'd waste to revert mods back to 1.5.97.