Hey all, you can consider this "take two" of the debug information. It can be, for lack of a better word, exhausting explaining the same thing over and over, and the "Doory" article was something of catharsis where I attempted to help while also being snarky as hell. To be honest, it is the appropriate level of over-the-top saccharine for the people who were causing trouble in the comments, but it's also overly verbose and likely drove away people who otherwise would have learned from it. So this is a more serious "explaining how mods work, and why the door thing happens, but is not a bug". It's not going to solve your problem, at least not directly. But it should provide you with the tools and knowledge to be able to solve this problem (and many other problems!) yourself.
So first off, let's establish a very basic baseline for people not technically inclined - as I'm sure you've heard, computers use binary code (0 and 1). Because of this, powers of two are valuable in programming, leading to a couple other types of number systems - base 8 (octal, so 0-7), and base 16 (hexidecimal, so 0-9 plus a, b, c, d, e, and f), because those characters can be used to describe 3 or 4 binary digits as shorthand. Skyrim uses hexidecimal extensively.
Everything (and I do mean basically EVERYTHING) in Skyrim is described as an 8-digit hexidecimal number, so 00000000 to FFFFFFFF. The first two digits of this number correspond to your load order (I'll be doing screenshots in vortex because MO2 users generally take more firm control over their load orders so it'll be a little more understood on their part).
So as you can see here, Skyrim.esm is 00, Update.esm is 01, Dawnguard.esm is 02, and so on and so forth. What this means is that for any new thing which is added by Skyrim.esm, its first two digits will be 00. For anything added by Update.esm it will be 01, and so on. This is what led to the original Skyrim rule of "no more than 254 plugins" - 255 is FF, which is the last space, but that's reserved for the game (if I'm not mistaken it's used for things which are temporarily spawned in game, then removed - random bandits, for example).
In Skyrim Special Edition and Anniversary Edition, 254 is also reserved, for ESLs, and ESL-flagged ESPs (you may see them referred to as ESPFE - this is a reference to the load order). Basically, because we have 6 digits for any plugin, there can be up to 2^(6*4), or over 16 million items created by that plugin. That is WAY overkill for most plugins, so Bethesda made FE an extra "reserved" number which is subdivided into another 4096 plugin "spaces" FE000 to FEFFF - these are your "esl flagged plugins" - they only have space for 4096 (actually 2048 because it starts from 800, this is fixed in Fallout4 but that's neither here nor there) new references, but for most smaller mods that's more than enough. These plugins can be interspersed with other plugins, and it's great. So you can end up with plugin orders like that screenshot above where FE (000) loads, then FE (001), then 05.
Okay, all the above is probably more detail than what we need to know, but the important bit is effectively this: when you establish load orders, plugins are capable of referencing objects/items/etc created by plugins above them, provided masters are set. Everything has Skyrim.esm as a master, and in your load order last plugin wins. You can have like...50 different mods that change a given reference, but literally the only thing that matters is the last one. Last one wins. Period.
So now let's get into reference types for things placed in the world. There's two types - Temporary references, and Persistent references. Most things are temporary - they get placed, they can be moved, you can do whatever with them. If you change your load order mid-game, when stuff refreshes into memory, it gets loaded from scratch again and you get the new changes. Persistent references, however, are different. From the point you hit "New Game" from the main menu, their details (location, orientation, etc) are baked into your save. This is because they're used by something - AI packages, quests, scripts, etc - and the game needs to make sure it knows where they are so it can act upon the item without issue.
THIS, in turn, leads us to the Jorrvaskr basement door.
(Ignore the eyes, I'm not going to boot up CK again just to take another shot without them).
The Jorrvaskr door is 00077FA2 - so the first 00 means that it's established from Skyrim.esm, and the rest of the digits don't really matter. What DOES matter, however, in the above is the "P" next to the number. That denotes it as a persistent reference. Once you have booted your game, it's stuck in a spot, and WILL NOT MOVE. Period. And HERE is where load order matters.
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Here is an example of some mods that touch the door. Skyrim.esm establishes a location. JK's Jorrvaskr moves it. Immersive Citizens moves it. Patches move it. The position of your door will be the value which is in the last plugin in your load order that happens to touch the door, at the time you hit "new game." This means if you instead load a "clean save" post-Unbound or something like that, the location of the door will be whatever that save was made with, which is likely vanilla skyrim - ie, the original location.
This is not a bug. It's literally how the game was designed to behave. Once you have started your game, there is no way to move it via load order.
The ONLY way to move persistent references mid-game is via script. JK's Jorrvaskr actually comes packaged with a script which, the first time you load JK's Jorrvaskr with the plugin enabled (so even if you install it mid-game), it will run through every persistent reference touched by JK's Jorrvaskr and move them to whatever location should be winning in your load order.
So how to handle this? Well, first off, the important thing to remember is that your load order is your own: you've installed the mods you wanted, and no one else will be able to tell you what your specific configuration contains (unless you're using a wabbajack list with nothing added, in which case ask the WJ list owner for help!). The best way to do this is via SSEdit: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/164 It's probably the most useful tool you could possibly install. There will be instructions on how to set it up with MO2 or Vortex, and if you boot it up with your load order, you'll be able to see everything every plugin does. We know the door in question: 00077FA2 - search for that formID, and you'll be able to see what plugins you have in your load order that touch the door. Then, you just need to make sure that JK's Jorrvaskr (or the corresponding patch for it you want) loads last. How to do this?
Well, in MO2, you just drag it in the right panel, so I won't take a screenshot of that. For Vortex, click Plugins in the left column, and at the top there should be a "Manage Rules" button.
Click this, and it will bring up a prompt where you can add a rule to load JK's Jorrvaskr.esp after whatever other mod was touching the door. The next time you sort your load order, it should be resolved!
(This unfortunately doesn't help with teleporting from the basement INTO the upstairs, which is ALSO a persistent ref - the ref you want to search for that one is 000794E4. Teleport information is kept with the door you leave FROM, not the one you're going TO).
But anyway, yeah. I genuinely hope this helped and you can get things resolved to let your game work the way you want to. But ultimately every mod is made in isolation - JK's Jorrvaskr has no idea if you've got USSEP installed, USSEP has no idea if you've got Inigo installed, Inigo has no idea if you've got some random sex mod from Lover's Lab installed, etc. If you ran with JK's Jorrvaskr and nothing else? It'd work flawlessly. But it's the COMBINATION of other mods and JK's Jorrvaskr which is causing trouble - we can provide patches, but only for ones we know have conflicts (and we have patched for literally every mod anyone has told us has an interaction with that door). But of course, that ALSO assumes you install the patches and have them in the right place in your load order: we cannot do anything about that from our side of the computer. We can't do anything about you installing things mid-game (don't do that, btw) other than trying to accommodate it via the script, but there's no way to get THAT to work right if your load order still isnt' right, and it only runs once (I'm not going to make some awful script bloat that runs constantly when it shouldn't).
And to the console commands floating out there, I'm not even going to repeat them here because they only address the door - but there are other persistent references which have to do with quests, AI interaction (people eating, people sitting at tables, etc) which are invisible, so you don't "notice" they're wrong, but they can eventually lead to jank or even your game breaking. So I'm not going to encourage bad modding practice, sorry :)
If it still doesn't work, well, I'm sorry. Might be best just to not use this mod :)
(And the most hilarious and/or annoying thing about the whole process is that I actually went and looked into the source code in the script, and the door isn't USED in it, despite being a parameter).
45 comments
setpos x 616.2
setpos y 134
setpoz z -471
OK thx
setpos x 616.2
setpos y 134
setpoz z -471
these coordinates are my own personal location for the door. others may have it shifted a slight amount around.
then click the door again to remove it from selection and type tcl again to disable noclipping, and you have the door in the correct position.
i hope this helped.
open console
type
tcl
This turns off collision. You can fly outside the interior and find the door floating below the floor.
open console
click on door
Base ID should be something similar to 000252c7
When you are near the door the label should be Open Jorrvaskr Living Quarters
type
getpos z
getpos x
getpos y
This will show you coordinates of the door
type
setpos x 618
setpos y -470
setpos z 135
Click off the door in the console
type
tcl
This will reenable collision and allow you to walk around the interior
The door will move to the correct position and can now be used
The actual order to setpos should be like this:
prid 77fa2 - This is to have the console command click on the door itself without the need to use tcl. Base ID should be like 000252c7
Now for the coordinates to set the door on the right spot will be:
setpos x 616
setpos y 120
setpos z -470
This should place the door on the right position for Jk's Jorrvaskr.
HOWEVER!!!!!
Even if the door was set to position, exiting out of the Jorrvaskr Living Quarters still place you at the original spot, so you will end up where the door originally was and fall into the void. But it spawns you back to the main entrance of Jorrvaskr. Plus, there are floating urns in the bath area of the living quarters for some reason. Honestly, I love Jk's take on the place but he should had never messed with the door entrance.
in order to make the door appear in the correct spot my coordinates were different.
X 618
Y 130
Z -473
Also make sure there is no item selected in the console when you type 'tcl' or it won't let you fly around in noclip.
Hope this helps
@Janquel aren't console commands scripts in their own right (kind of)? Anyway I had my load order set up correct from the start and the door still wasn't in place, persistent reference fix file didn't help either so I had to resort to console
The only thing I thought of was making a rule where it loads after Skyrim itself? but that didn't work...
The Guild Interiors patch doesn't seem to work for me either, since I have none of the mods it provides patches for.
Save the game outside the building.
Exit the game.
Download ReSaver https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/76776/?
Run ReSaver and open up the save file you wish to edit (back it up so you can restore it if you mess up).
Filter "00077FA2" - This is the door mentioned in this article.
Delete everything you see in the list (select folders and delete).
Save the file and completely ignore the alarming warning you get.
Boot the game and the door should be where it should be again!
This fix has worked on all the problems I have had with JK's mods I installed after I started a new game.
Thank you so much <3
@Janquel thanks for all of the wonderful mods.