The one thing I am really missing from Growl (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/100313) is the ability to leave beast form early. Right now I am having to wait for the beast form to time out and that is just annoying. No real enjoyment out of standing around waiting. I looked in xEdit for Growl and this seems like it is something you can duplicate rather easily. I tried to figure out how to copy the Growl stuff into your mod or into a compatibility patch, but that is beyond me right now. Also, this may fit the lore you are creating for the Lupine where they are rejecting Hircine?
Hello Mr. DomainWolf, Thanks for taking your time in this forum section. I do have some suggestions, and hopefully you can consider them. I'll write them in an arranged order.
I. Bug fix Bug fix(es) for existing beast form mechanism: 1) Your beast form should be able to tear spider web apart. It doesn't make any sense that a kid with a wooden sword is capable to rip spider web apart while your powerful werewolf claw is not. This has been successfully implemented by a mod (but not compatible with Lupine), so it should be possible here too.
II. Addition to "Hircine" perks It should be self-explained. An expansion and improvement of vanilla perks, while focusing more into Hircine traits which are (based on currently existing perks) more into Brute/Tanky way of beast form. But i personally think that it should not be limited into this area only, since it can be better utilized as a broader concept which is a way for those who wholeheartedly wants to serve Hircine and loyal to him. Here are some suggestions for the perks:
1) Detect life howl (totem of predator) now works for undeads, daedra, automatons, and dragons. This serves as an upgrade of the existing perk.
2) Sweeping Claws (can be renamed to a better name) = "Your claws sweep all enemies in front of you". Exclusive to Hircine way, now you can attack all enemies in range in front of you at once.
3) Ripping Claws (can be renamed to a better name) = "Your claws become sharper, causing bleeding damage for x seconds for each unblocked attacks". Only works if the target didn't block your attack. The x second duration can be scaled.
4) Hunting Thrill (can be renamed to a better name) = "Your attacks are increased by x% for each x enemies killed, while increasing incoming damage by the same amount". A high gain high risk perk, but it's quite reasonable. When you're too excited to hunt, you get more ferocious everytime you kill your targets, but you also forget to defend yourself since your mind only focusing on hunting.
5) Gorged Strength (can be renamed) = "Each time you feed, your attack damage is increased by x% for x sec"
6) Kill the Weak (can be renamed) = "You get increased damage to any targets affected by Howl of Fear". This can be included in any of Howl of Fear related perk(s) if it's not set as a standalone perk.
7) You get stronger/getbonus for each amount wolf and/or werewolf you summon using Howl of the Pack/Brotherhood. This is to simulate the lore that werewolves usually hunt together in a pack, thus they get more dangerous while in a pack.
8 ) Capability to befriend with predators and manbeasts (werewolves/wearbears). Being an apex predator should let other predators to know their place, making them to bow before you. None of them will dare to bother you anymore (ie. won't attack you). This should only happen once you get down further into the way of Hircine.
III. Addition to "Lupine" perks Based on currently existing Lupine perks, i feel that Lupine is more into Arcane/Stealthy way of beast form, while still retaining it's beast nature such as brute strength and higher endurance. But i personally think that it can be something larger/wider than that, since this Lupine sounds like a concept of "betraying" the Daedra (ie. Hircine) by looking for "alternate ways" to use and develop your beast form. This is (probably) like you're trying to take more "humane/tame" ways by avoiding "ferocious/ruthless" ways of Hircine. One of possible ways is by embracing natural/arcane energy to help you control and develop your beast power (moon as a power source of werewolves is related with spirits and Divines in the Elder Scrolls lore). This also opens a new path for mages to embrace beast form power by relating some of Lupine mechanism with magicka, spells, or magic skills (previously, beast form is only useful for non-mage characters); although we should not focusing too much on it since Lupine is a broader concept not limited to arcane power only. They're also still creatures made by daedra, so some divine powers should pose a problem for them too. Thus not all kind of arcane power is suitable to them. As a summarize of above concepts, these are the new perks i suggest for Lupine way:
1) Arcane Claw (can be renamed to a better name) = "Power attacks with your claws spawn a wave of arcane energy to blast your enemies away" (this was originally my thought on how to have a ranged attack in beast form to fight archers and mages, but it indeed suits with the Lupine theme well). The damage can be scaled based on the amount of magicka or destruction skill (hence this is useful for mage characters).
2) Heightened Senses (can be renamed to a better name) = "Time slows down when your enemy is power attacking you" (similar with the block perk). This is a good addition to Howl of Cursed Earth since that howl is slowing down your enemies whenever you shout, but this one is only when you're getting attacked. If it's too OP, then make it chance-based, like "xx% for the time to slows down...", something like that. The % chance can be based on amount of skill, amount of days as werewolf, amount of consumed undeads, or anything else related to this perk.
3) Doppelganger (can be renamed, but i actually like the name) (has 2 ranks) = "After sinking yourself into the path of sorrow, you gain understanding of how dark feelings (or something more horrid than this phrase; since i'm not really good at using cool phrases) can be used to manipulate minds. You duplicate yourself each time you enter combat for xx seconds (rank 1) and when your health falls below xx% (rank 2)". The xx seconds duration can be based on magicka or illusion skill (useful for mages). This is different from summoned werewolf via howl of the pack, since this perk EXACTLY duplicates yourself (your stats, attributes, damage, resistances, skills, etc are duplicated -- ie. the exact copy of yourself).
4) Arcane Infusion (can be renamed) (2 ranks) = "Allow your beast form to absorb powers from your enchanted gears" (rank 1). Enchanted gears can be armors and apparels or weapons. "Your enchanted claws get bonus damage to abominations (vampires, daedra, undeads, skeletons) and your power attacks banish conjured daedra" (rank 2). It's based on lore (http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:On_Lycanthropy) that lycanthropes are able to harm golems, atronachs, and other beings which cannot be harmed by mundane weapons since they're (ie. werewolf claws) considered as enchanted weapons. Since in Skyrim all weapons can harm those abominations, so the better way to implement that lore is by giving bonus damage to those abominations. The bonus damage can be scaled based on magicka, enchanting skill, or enchantment amount of the curently infused weapon (useful for mages and non-mages who use enchanted weapons). The level of conjured daedra whom can be banished can also be scaled based on conjuration skill for example (again, useful for mages).
5) Hunting Instinct (can be renamed) = "Your speed is increased by x% for each x enemies killed, while increasing incoming damage by the same amount". This is a similar perk with Hircine way, but for Lupine it's speed instead of damage.
6) Gorged Speed (can be renamed) = "Each time you feed, your speed is increased by x% for x sec"
7) Capability to not get hated/attacked by NPCs if taking Lupine path further. Since Lupine is the more "humane/tame" ways of utilizing beast form (they eat undead corpse instead of people corpse right?), they should be able to not get hated by people, but after proving that they're indeed not dangerous to them (thus requiring them to go further down into the path of Lupine)
IV. Addition to "Yellow" perks I personally consider "yellow perks" as a state when you have taken full control of your beast form, either as a Lupine or as a Hircine servant, thus the perks should contain things like what you should be able to do in that state. These are some suggestions: 1) Revert form at will (you've taken full control of beast form, so you should be able to revert form at will). This is actually a very small but useful feature, so it's functionality can be included into other suitable perk. Maybe as 2nd rank of Eyes of the Wolf? 2) Open locked containers (i don't know if this has been included in Eyes of the World perk, but if it's not then it should be). Can be included in 2nd rank of Eyes of the Wolf. 3) Strong Limbs (can be renamed) = "Your strong limbs allow you to jump higher and further, while reducing fall damage". This is a wellknown trait of a powerful beast such as werewolf. 4) Climbing (can be renamed) = "You are now capable to climb bulding or other high objects, allowing you to get pass through it". Lycanthropes have strong muscle and they have animal traits (like cats for example), so they should be able to climb any high objects, especially buildings and rocks/mountains. They should even be able to "parkour" on rocky mountains or city walls. 5) Moonbath (can be renamed) = "Your health and stamina regenerate a lot faster (in beast form) under full moon". We should use those moonphase mechanism created by Bethesda to enhance beast form mechanism, and this perk will only work when full moon.
V. Miscellaneous : 1) "Eyes of the Wolf" perk should be renamed to something else to better reflect it's effect. Maybe something like "Humanity", since it basically allows you to do what your human form can do. It also serves as a sign that you have taken full control of your beast form, allowing you to act like a normal human do.
I'll think about them, I like some of them, and Eyes of the Wolf was just the name of the perk as I was testing it, and haven't come up with anything overly amazing for it. Should be able to interact with locked chests with it as well. Just it makes you lock-pick it XD
Thanks for the suggestions, I'll see how the ports go, and look into it.
And does it mean that with EotW perk now werewolf can lock pick chests? Well, come to think of it, instead of lock pick it they should be able to rip the chest apart lol... Yeah, maybe their attacks are able to "break" locked chests? The level of lock which are able to be "broke" can be based on your skill. Just came up with the idea
maybe you can add some features from this mod https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/20721 it has cool features but the mod is not modular so maybe you can add your own version from the features from the other mod
I'll look into some of the features, but don't have any ideas of what I would add based on the Ideas. If anything is added, It'll probably show up in the changelog/sticky post.
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Suggestions (8 comments)
Thanks for taking your time in this forum section. I do have some suggestions, and hopefully you can consider them.
I'll write them in an arranged order.
I. Bug fix
Bug fix(es) for existing beast form mechanism:
1) Your beast form should be able to tear spider web apart. It doesn't make any sense that a kid with a wooden sword is capable to rip spider web apart while your powerful werewolf claw is not. This has been successfully implemented by a mod (but not compatible with Lupine), so it should be possible here too.
II. Addition to "Hircine" perks
It should be self-explained. An expansion and improvement of vanilla perks, while focusing more into Hircine traits which are (based on currently existing perks) more into Brute/Tanky way of beast form. But i personally think that it should not be limited into this area only, since it can be better utilized as a broader concept which is a way for those who wholeheartedly wants to serve Hircine and loyal to him. Here are some suggestions for the perks:
1) Detect life howl (totem of predator) now works for undeads, daedra, automatons, and dragons. This serves as an upgrade of the existing perk.
2) Sweeping Claws (can be renamed to a better name) = "Your claws sweep all enemies in front of you". Exclusive to Hircine way, now you can attack all enemies in range in front of you at once.
3) Ripping Claws (can be renamed to a better name) = "Your claws become sharper, causing bleeding damage for x seconds for each unblocked attacks". Only works if the target didn't block your attack. The x second duration can be scaled.
4) Hunting Thrill (can be renamed to a better name) = "Your attacks are increased by x% for each x enemies killed, while increasing incoming damage by the same amount". A high gain high risk perk, but it's quite reasonable. When you're too excited to hunt, you get more ferocious everytime you kill your targets, but you also forget to defend yourself since your mind only focusing on hunting.
5) Gorged Strength (can be renamed) = "Each time you feed, your attack damage is increased by x% for x sec"
6) Kill the Weak (can be renamed) = "You get increased damage to any targets affected by Howl of Fear". This can be included in any of Howl of Fear related perk(s) if it's not set as a standalone perk.
7) You get stronger/getbonus for each amount wolf and/or werewolf you summon using Howl of the Pack/Brotherhood. This is to simulate the lore that werewolves usually hunt together in a pack, thus they get more dangerous while in a pack.
8 ) Capability to befriend with predators and manbeasts (werewolves/wearbears). Being an apex predator should let other predators to know their place, making them to bow before you. None of them will dare to bother you anymore (ie. won't attack you). This should only happen once you get down further into the way of Hircine.
III. Addition to "Lupine" perks
Based on currently existing Lupine perks, i feel that Lupine is more into Arcane/Stealthy way of beast form, while still retaining it's beast nature such as brute strength and higher endurance. But i personally think that it can be something larger/wider than that, since this Lupine sounds like a concept of "betraying" the Daedra (ie. Hircine) by looking for "alternate ways" to use and develop your beast form. This is (probably) like you're trying to take more "humane/tame" ways by avoiding "ferocious/ruthless" ways of Hircine. One of possible ways is by embracing natural/arcane energy to help you control and develop your beast power (moon as a power source of werewolves is related with spirits and Divines in the Elder Scrolls lore). This also opens a new path for mages to embrace beast form power by relating some of Lupine mechanism with magicka, spells, or magic skills (previously, beast form is only useful for non-mage characters); although we should not focusing too much on it since Lupine is a broader concept not limited to arcane power only. They're also still creatures made by daedra, so some divine powers should pose a problem for them too. Thus not all kind of arcane power is suitable to them.
As a summarize of above concepts, these are the new perks i suggest for Lupine way:
1) Arcane Claw (can be renamed to a better name) = "Power attacks with your claws spawn a wave of arcane energy to blast your enemies away" (this was originally my thought on how to have a ranged attack in beast form to fight archers and mages, but it indeed suits with the Lupine theme well). The damage can be scaled based on the amount of magicka or destruction skill (hence this is useful for mage characters).
2) Heightened Senses (can be renamed to a better name) = "Time slows down when your enemy is power attacking you" (similar with the block perk). This is a good addition to Howl of Cursed Earth since that howl is slowing down your enemies whenever you shout, but this one is only when you're getting attacked. If it's too OP, then make it chance-based, like "xx% for the time to slows down...", something like that. The % chance can be based on amount of skill, amount of days as werewolf, amount of consumed undeads, or anything else related to this perk.
3) Doppelganger (can be renamed, but i actually like the name) (has 2 ranks) = "After sinking yourself into the path of sorrow, you gain understanding of how dark feelings (or something more horrid than this phrase; since i'm not really good at using cool phrases) can be used to manipulate minds. You duplicate yourself each time you enter combat for xx seconds (rank 1) and when your health falls below xx% (rank 2)". The xx seconds duration can be based on magicka or illusion skill (useful for mages). This is different from summoned werewolf via howl of the pack, since this perk EXACTLY duplicates yourself (your stats, attributes, damage, resistances, skills, etc are duplicated -- ie. the exact copy of yourself).
4) Arcane Infusion (can be renamed) (2 ranks) = "Allow your beast form to absorb powers from your enchanted gears" (rank 1). Enchanted gears can be armors and apparels or weapons. "Your enchanted claws get bonus damage to abominations (vampires, daedra, undeads, skeletons) and your power attacks banish conjured daedra" (rank 2). It's based on lore (http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:On_Lycanthropy) that lycanthropes are able to harm golems, atronachs, and other beings which cannot be harmed by mundane weapons since they're (ie. werewolf claws) considered as enchanted weapons. Since in Skyrim all weapons can harm those abominations, so the better way to implement that lore is by giving bonus damage to those abominations. The bonus damage can be scaled based on magicka, enchanting skill, or enchantment amount of the curently infused weapon (useful for mages and non-mages who use enchanted weapons). The level of conjured daedra whom can be banished can also be scaled based on conjuration skill for example (again, useful for mages).
5) Hunting Instinct (can be renamed) = "Your speed is increased by x% for each x enemies killed, while increasing incoming damage by the same amount". This is a similar perk with Hircine way, but for Lupine it's speed instead of damage.
6) Gorged Speed (can be renamed) = "Each time you feed, your speed is increased by x% for x sec"
7) Capability to not get hated/attacked by NPCs if taking Lupine path further. Since Lupine is the more "humane/tame" ways of utilizing beast form (they eat undead corpse instead of people corpse right?), they should be able to not get hated by people, but after proving that they're indeed not dangerous to them (thus requiring them to go further down into the path of Lupine)
IV. Addition to "Yellow" perks
I personally consider "yellow perks" as a state when you have taken full control of your beast form, either as a Lupine or as a Hircine servant, thus the perks should contain things like what you should be able to do in that state. These are some suggestions:
1) Revert form at will (you've taken full control of beast form, so you should be able to revert form at will). This is actually a very small but useful feature, so it's functionality can be included into other suitable perk. Maybe as 2nd rank of Eyes of the Wolf?
2) Open locked containers (i don't know if this has been included in Eyes of the World perk, but if it's not then it should be). Can be included in 2nd rank of Eyes of the Wolf.
3) Strong Limbs (can be renamed) = "Your strong limbs allow you to jump higher and further, while reducing fall damage". This is a wellknown trait of a powerful beast such as werewolf.
4) Climbing (can be renamed) = "You are now capable to climb bulding or other high objects, allowing you to get pass through it". Lycanthropes have strong muscle and they have animal traits (like cats for example), so they should be able to climb any high objects, especially buildings and rocks/mountains. They should even be able to "parkour" on rocky mountains or city walls.
5) Moonbath (can be renamed) = "Your health and stamina regenerate a lot faster (in beast form) under full moon". We should use those moonphase mechanism created by Bethesda to enhance beast form mechanism, and this perk will only work when full moon.
V. Miscellaneous :
1) "Eyes of the Wolf" perk should be renamed to something else to better reflect it's effect. Maybe something like "Humanity", since it basically allows you to do what your human form can do. It also serves as a sign that you have taken full control of your beast form, allowing you to act like a normal human do.
Thanks for the suggestions, I'll see how the ports go, and look into it.
And does it mean that with EotW perk now werewolf can lock pick chests?
Well, come to think of it, instead of lock pick it they should be able to rip the chest apart lol... Yeah, maybe their attacks are able to "break" locked chests? The level of lock which are able to be "broke" can be based on your skill. Just came up with the idea
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/20721
it has cool features but the mod is not modular so maybe you can add your own version from the features from the other mod