Looking this in TES5Edit, i think this mod does affect also Moar Deadly Wenches. Their loading order shouldn't matter, just that the balance patch must be after Deadly Wenches main mod.
About the less deadly file, did u just make them about strong as a vanilla bandit, or did you just link their stats with vanilla bandits? If you did the latter, do combat mods now affect them?
Thanks for the balance patch. I have to say the same like other people. i like deadly wenches and moar deadly wenches but they are totally op and if you fight 2 or 3 you are lost. This mod makes it much more less painful and still fun to play.
I have a couple of hopefully not annoying questions. By changing how often the deadly wenches spawn, does this mean they will be replaced by vanilla females, or will they be replaced by males? Or is it random? Additionally, is this patch able to be merged with the deadly wenches esp, or should I just leave it at the bottom of my load order? I love Kozuke's work, but after playing on master level with deadly combat, ultimate combat, and Enaiing up my skyrim in general, the deadly wenches kinda started to become a little too dangerous. I guess I also kinda just got tired of them using magic when they really shouldn't be using magic, you know?
EDIT: And this is just me being cautious so please forgive me if I'm being annoying, but is it also safe to add during a playthrough?
Assuming you're talking about the "Less Wenches" Patch, I just remove some of the deadly wench references in the leveled list that the original Deadly Wenches had put, so when an npc is randomly taken from a leveled list, it's less likely to be a deadly wench npc (and more likely to be a vanilla npc). For example, if a leveled list had 2 references to a vanilla female npc and 4 references to a deadly wench npc, it would return the deadly wench twice as much as the vanilla npc. So in my patch, I would reduce the deadly wench references to 2, so that they would be both equally likely.
So it's not that they are replaced by vanilla females or males, but rather they are less likely to be selected. In regards to the gender of the vanilla npc, that depends on the leveled list, where some are gender-specific and some are not.
Both patches should not be merged with the deadly wench esp, but can be merged in a bashed patch if you want (since it's mostly just overrides on the leveled list records). If you're unsure and not close to the esp limit, I would just leave them at the bottom.
I started doing these patches because the wenches kept ohko'ing me in my setup, so I get how you feel.
At least to my knowledge, it should be safe to add during a playthrough, since both patches are record overrides. For the "Less Wenches" patch, if npcs have already spawned, they would have spawned from the old leveled list record and you'll have to wait til those npcs are respawned (30 days?) before you see the reduced frequency. For the "Less Deadly" patch, I'm not quite sure whether you'll see the changes on spawned npcs, so you might also need to wait for those npcs to respawn.
Thank you so much for this mod! I've always loved the eye candy of Deadly Wenches and other mods like pretty bandits weren't just good enough, but I always hated how OP the bandits were (compared to regular ones) at lower levels! Having regular bandits do no damage and deadly wench bandits one shot you is never fun ):
You think this patch can work with SE or are you planning to make a conversion for SE?
Without this, i'm not playing with deadly wenches on SE. I feel like the MCM are too limited. His other mods such as forgotten wenches gives you the option to reduce the amount of forgotten wenches that can appear in the type in those type of dungeons.
Any chance you can extend this to the other wench mods? Mainly it's the loot that I'm concerned with rather than their power, for my current game I ended up leaving behind the majority of the loot the wenches drop for a long time, as otherwise it unstabled my economy a lot. Draugr even Death Overlords tend to show up with only Ebony quality items, while Wenches frequently have daedric and dragonbone quality items on higher levels, plus usually a lot of other loot like filled soulgems, and that's before you get to custom armors dropping, making those undroppable like the deadly wench vampire ebony armor is would be preferable. Some sort of level list adjustments could also make the wenches more compatible with mods like Morrowloot.
In regards to loot balance, I might look into this depending on how the next few weeks turn out for me, but I wouldn't quite count on it.
From the looks of it, Deadric+ items are looted either as part of the wench's outfit or as an additional drop. Since additional drops use the vanilla level lists, ideally those would be handled innately by mods similar to Morrowloot Ultimate. This leaves modifications mainly on the wench's outfit which is largely dependent on which version of Hateful Wenches you downloaded. As such, the changes that would be needed involve the following:
1. If using the "Vanilla Armors" version, any leveled item that's used in an outfit and consists of vanilla daedric items would be changed to use only Ancient Nord equipment.
2. If using the "Custom Armors" version, either modify the wenches so they don't use custom armors (at this point you should just use the Vanilla Armors version) or modify the armors so that they aren't Deadric+ items and adjust their values accordingly. This might be strange appearance-wise with armors like the Deadric Reaper Armor, whose new armor type might be Steel.
3. Alternatively, you could mark all of the custom armors/weapons as non-playable in the record such that the armors/weapons could not be looted from the wenches on death.
It sounds like method 3 is what you're suggesting (I believe the DW Ebony Armor is also marked non-playable). If you don't want to wait on me, try putting all of the armor and weapon records in HW as non-playable in the "Record Header/Record Flags" and see if that works for you.
In regards to the other loot, you could probably remove entries from the lalawench_HW_loot_draugr_wenches record to prevent the wenches from dropping soul gems, jewelry, etc...
On a curious note, it sounds like you already run your game with some form of Morrowloot. When you say that Wenches have deadric/dragonbone quality items... before you get to custom armors dropping, is that with Morrowloot running?
I am not using Morrowloot currently, but yes in the past when I used Morrowloot with wenches I found Dragonbone, daedric and ebony quality gear (as well as glass gear on lower levels) on them when I shouldn't with Morrowloot, so my guess is that comes from their own unique level lists instead of just choices from the general level list of the game.
I've uploaded a patch for Morrowloot-esque loot balance in Hateful Wenches. I don't really play Hateful Wenches, so let me know if you see something strange.
Since I plan on doing a Morrowloot Ultimate play through at some point, the patch does the followings:
1. Modifies the wenches so they use non-playable armor. (i.e. Each wench doesn't drop a complete set of what they're wearing anymore similar to how a regular draugr might not drop his helmet or his armor).
2. Changes the material types and stats of the custom armors, so that if they do drop from the loot leveled lists, they aren't dropping MLU-restricted armor types (i.e. glass, elven, dragonscale, etc...). Many of the custom armors are adjusted to the stats of existing armors (like regular clothing or scalehide).
3. Removes the custom weapons from the drop lists, since they look like daedric weapons and shouldn't drop from regular enemies.
Since the loot leveled lists use some of the vanilla draugr loot leveled lists, I'm assuming that the user uses a Morrowloot mod that changes those leveled lists to avoid ebony, daedric drops in those drops. As with any conflict where multiple mods modify the same leveled list, a bashed patch should be used in those cases.
Nice, that should be very helpful for the future! As of now I'm way too high level (just passed 201, yes that's 201, after a lot of legendary resets over 300+ hours) and with several million in the "gold owned over lifetime" stat so there's not much point in adding in my current game, but I'll add it for future plays to be sure!
17 comments
I have to say the same like other people. i like deadly wenches and moar deadly wenches but they are totally op and if you fight 2 or 3 you are lost. This mod makes it much more less painful and still fun to play.
EDIT: And this is just me being cautious so please forgive me if I'm being annoying, but is it also safe to add during a playthrough?
So it's not that they are replaced by vanilla females or males, but rather they are less likely to be selected. In regards to the gender of the vanilla npc, that depends on the leveled list, where some are gender-specific and some are not.
Both patches should not be merged with the deadly wench esp, but can be merged in a bashed patch if you want (since it's mostly just overrides on the leveled list records). If you're unsure and not close to the esp limit, I would just leave them at the bottom.
I started doing these patches because the wenches kept ohko'ing me in my setup, so I get how you feel.
At least to my knowledge, it should be safe to add during a playthrough, since both patches are record overrides. For the "Less Wenches" patch, if npcs have already spawned, they would have spawned from the old leveled list record and you'll have to wait til those npcs are respawned (30 days?) before you see the reduced frequency. For the "Less Deadly" patch, I'm not quite sure whether you'll see the changes on spawned npcs, so you might also need to wait for those npcs to respawn.
Seriously, thank you SO MUCH!
I also thought the fights were too inconsistent and made combat/difficulty mods hard to use.
Without this, i'm not playing with deadly wenches on SE. I feel like the MCM are too limited. His other mods such as forgotten wenches gives you the option to reduce the amount of forgotten wenches that can appear in the type in those type of dungeons.
From the looks of it, Deadric+ items are looted either as part of the wench's outfit or as an additional drop. Since additional drops use the vanilla level lists, ideally those would be handled innately by mods similar to Morrowloot Ultimate. This leaves modifications mainly on the wench's outfit which is largely dependent on which version of Hateful Wenches you downloaded. As such, the changes that would be needed involve the following:
1. If using the "Vanilla Armors" version, any leveled item that's used in an outfit and consists of vanilla daedric items would be changed to use only Ancient Nord equipment.
2. If using the "Custom Armors" version, either modify the wenches so they don't use custom armors (at this point you should just use the Vanilla Armors version) or modify the armors so that they aren't Deadric+ items and adjust their values accordingly. This might be strange appearance-wise with armors like the Deadric Reaper Armor, whose new armor type might be Steel.
3. Alternatively, you could mark all of the custom armors/weapons as non-playable in the record such that the armors/weapons could not be looted from the wenches on death.
It sounds like method 3 is what you're suggesting (I believe the DW Ebony Armor is also marked non-playable). If you don't want to wait on me, try putting all of the armor and weapon records in HW as non-playable in the "Record Header/Record Flags" and see if that works for you.
In regards to the other loot, you could probably remove entries from the lalawench_HW_loot_draugr_wenches record to prevent the wenches from dropping soul gems, jewelry, etc...
On a curious note, it sounds like you already run your game with some form of Morrowloot. When you say that Wenches have deadric/dragonbone quality items... before you get to custom armors dropping, is that with Morrowloot running?
Since I plan on doing a Morrowloot Ultimate play through at some point, the patch does the followings:
1. Modifies the wenches so they use non-playable armor. (i.e. Each wench doesn't drop a complete set of what they're wearing anymore similar to how a regular draugr might not drop his helmet or his armor).
2. Changes the material types and stats of the custom armors, so that if they do drop from the loot leveled lists, they aren't dropping MLU-restricted armor types (i.e. glass, elven, dragonscale, etc...). Many of the custom armors are adjusted to the stats of existing armors (like regular clothing or scalehide).
3. Removes the custom weapons from the drop lists, since they look like daedric weapons and shouldn't drop from regular enemies.
Since the loot leveled lists use some of the vanilla draugr loot leveled lists, I'm assuming that the user uses a Morrowloot mod that changes those leveled lists to avoid ebony, daedric drops in those drops. As with any conflict where multiple mods modify the same leveled list, a bashed patch should be used in those cases.