Please don't take this as a complaint. Your mod looks great, BUT...
If you read descriptions of village life from the (technological) time period TES covers, you'll never see references to pretty trees, parkland, etc. What you will see are comments about resources and arable land, in other words - not the wild world, but what can be done to tame and use the wild world. Practically speaking no towns in Skyrim should have trees in them because trees are too valuable to waste "for pretty" when they could be put to beneficial uses such as fuel, axe handles, bed frames, houses, and other necessities.
The gods didn't put trees on Nirn 'cause they're pretty, They did it for us to chop down and use. The idea of landscaping doesn't enter the discussion until one has so much land (resources) that it can be wasted in a show of conspicuous consumption. Places with trees tend to be the congregation spots for vagrants, cutthroats and witches.
The idea of "wild is beautiful" doesn't show up until the advent of horrifically over-crowded cities starting in the early/mid 1800s. In fact, the first parks for public use were cemeteries. Parks before that were hunting preserves for royalty.
With that said, that's some aesthetic tree placement you've got there!
Well, thanks for that. I'm glad you said something other than "Yet another mod for tree in Whiterun" but your comment provokes my imagination. Now I'm thinking of what I can do to make the cities of Skyrim more "Interesting". All that being said honestly if I'd like to keep it lore friendly, I'll need to do some research as to what I might add to cities to make them more complex and feel more like a city instead of a place with some houses behind some walls. To me that how i feel every time I see a city in TES:V. If we look at Whiterun there are literally 8 residential houses. It just doesn't feel like a city at the center of trade, you know? there needs to be more houses outside if the old walls of Whiterun, like a huge market, several temples to the gods, because if you were to show me a picture of Whiterun and say "This is the trade centre of Skyrim" all be it Skyrim only has 600 or so NPC's, but it shouldn't. I feel like there should be many more people to make this province feel "Livley"
I'm so glad you understood that I wasn't gunning for you or your mod, your work is very nice.
To continue the discussion (if you care to), you've got you work cut out for you! I like the ideas you mentioned in your response. Beautiful Medieval City is one of the most oxymoronic phrases I know of. Housing would be crowded, multiple houses leaning up against each other with narrow alleys between every two or three buildings. Behind each house would be a long yard filled with subsistence farmings, animals, or crafting sheds (such as smith's forging equipment or vats of urine for curing hides).
Like buildings would be lumped together, so there would be dwellings in one area, tanners and dyers (more vats of urine) together, smiths (iron smiths, gold smiths, tin smiths etc.) all in a row, scribes, copyists, and map makers in one area and practicing mages in another row, while those that serve food (thus generating lots of garbage and offal) would be near an outer city wall so they could toss their trash outside city limits. The only buildings that might have surrounding spaces would be public meeting places such as the hall of the dead, the palace, Jorrvaskr (needs plenty of practice space - very dangerous), and shrines.
Now, this is more like a combination of Norway and Scotland rather than England and southern Europe, but HEY... it's a fantasy representation of the world (Compressed distances and time, with very modern language usage and ideas. What? No Slavery? What does Bethesda think a housecarl was? Or maybe since every purchased player home comes with one, they're recognized as property but the game's just not using the S word). It also has to be able to run on most machines so most people and buildings probaby represent 10 to 15 more. Maybe pretty trees are the best way to beautify a town.
I'll keep watching to see what direction you decide to take this in. Good Luck - DD
PS - If you need reference books, I recommend children's books. They tend to give great overviews without getting bogged down in minutia. Most have helpful illustrations as well.
I understand that Whiterun doesn't have any trees in the lore but the last time I checked my character's main weapon is an AK47 so I think some trees wouldn't hurt. Thanks.
Each of them look a bit different so we can pick and choose from them. And the last time I checked, you didn't make a single mod to contribute so please be grateful for those who actually contribute something to the modding community.
13 comments
If you read descriptions of village life from the (technological) time period TES covers, you'll never see references to pretty trees, parkland, etc. What you will see are comments about resources and arable land, in other words - not the wild world, but what can be done to tame and use the wild world. Practically speaking no towns in Skyrim should have trees in them because trees are too valuable to waste "for pretty" when they could be put to beneficial uses such as fuel, axe handles, bed frames, houses, and other necessities.
The gods didn't put trees on Nirn 'cause they're pretty, They did it for us to chop down and use. The idea of landscaping doesn't enter the discussion until one has so much land (resources) that it can be wasted in a show of conspicuous consumption. Places with trees tend to be the congregation spots for vagrants, cutthroats and witches.
The idea of "wild is beautiful" doesn't show up until the advent of horrifically over-crowded cities starting in the early/mid 1800s. In fact, the first parks for public use were cemeteries. Parks before that were hunting preserves for royalty.
With that said, that's some aesthetic tree placement you've got there!
To continue the discussion (if you care to), you've got you work cut out for you! I like the ideas you mentioned in your response. Beautiful Medieval City is one of the most oxymoronic phrases I know of. Housing would be crowded, multiple houses leaning up against each other with narrow alleys between every two or three buildings. Behind each house would be a long yard filled with subsistence farmings, animals, or crafting sheds (such as smith's forging equipment or vats of urine for curing hides).
Like buildings would be lumped together, so there would be dwellings in one area, tanners and dyers (more vats of urine) together, smiths (iron smiths, gold smiths, tin smiths etc.) all in a row, scribes, copyists, and map makers in one area and practicing mages in another row, while those that serve food (thus generating lots of garbage and offal) would be near an outer city wall so they could toss their trash outside city limits. The only buildings that might have surrounding spaces would be public meeting places such as the hall of the dead, the palace, Jorrvaskr (needs plenty of practice space - very dangerous), and shrines.
Now, this is more like a combination of Norway and Scotland rather than England and southern Europe, but HEY... it's a fantasy representation of the world (Compressed distances and time, with very modern language usage and ideas. What? No Slavery? What does Bethesda think a housecarl was? Or maybe since every purchased player home comes with one, they're recognized as property but the game's just not using the S word). It also has to be able to run on most machines so most people and buildings probaby represent 10 to 15 more. Maybe pretty trees are the best way to beautify a town.
I'll keep watching to see what direction you decide to take this in. Good Luck - DD
PS - If you need reference books, I recommend children's books. They tend to give great overviews without getting bogged down in minutia. Most have helpful illustrations as well.