The fact is the new Special Edition of Skyrim is ONLY here or released to bring the Paid Mods support Bethesda obviously wanted. Dressed up with some new lighting tricks it is a sad excuse to release a title when they could have offered a simple patch instead of simply rehashing a release using already VANILLA Skyrim assets that WE USE NOW. The ugly stuff we cover over with textures and extra skeletons. With new armor packs. The Nexus NEEDS a key system to combat the use of paid mods.
I would rather have author released content on nexus and Bethesda. Choices yes but I will still use Nexus. Create a key that simply takes the best features out if someone "steals" for resale. Or a paid key. I'm willing to donate for the right mods and I have and do support/supported mod authors. Now I hope they remember to support this community. Quit hiding assets please - it is a crime to cover wonderful art. I can understand intellectual property theft or created property theft (Commercially I have lost art work to PUBLICLY owned businesses and theft of assets is bulls***!) but remember without Skyrim and Bethesda releasing it we wouldn't have this platform with out them or the Nexus.
There is enough sweet created content even being released daily that is worth supporting, including older mods as well. There is enough for everyone and with the loss of a venue like FileFront mods NEED to be protected from Data Loss. These are works of art, digital yes but still art. It should be protected. I'm not switching to Skyrim Special Edition. I'm already playing that now without some tacked on after the fact God Ray Lighting simply to lure people to use the Bethesda paid mods system. We NEED to support the work still here and the artists that create it.
First and foremost, instead of throwing another rock, please, please take a moment and peace out. Go kill Alduin a few more times and vent.
I believe the modding community will never be the same. Bethesda/vavle has divided us. That may have been their intent. Why would they do this? Simple, because the modders have made a Skyrim far superior to anything Bethesda ever dreamed of. Their new offering will have to compete with it. That will be a tough act. I hope I am wrong. But what is done is done. Instead of all the infighting its time for healing pulling back together. I fear Skyrim may have been the last truly mod able game for the pc. I hope I am wrong. But that the next generation of games will almost certainly be locked to the give me free money path of bethesda/vavle. Modders will lose, gamers will lose, but so will the game studios. Kill the goose that laid the golden egg. Yahoo, good show. peace to one and all.
Sometimes we have to let things go even if we are blind for it. Those that live in hatred are scientifically stated to die up to 30 years younger than they would have otherwise.
My two cents. Forcing someone to pay for a mod is stupid. Giving a mod maker a less than 50% cut is stupid. Adding a donate button? THAT'S how you do it. You give the mod users the OPTION to support (people are more likely to lend their support when it's an option and not mandatory for use) and gives the mod makers a 100% cut of the money.
my two cents. shame on all the modder who have use this as an excuse for quit the steam workshop to the nexus. they didnt havent any reason to do this. they always can let their mod on workshop for free. those modder are not "modder", even if some of them are extremly popular. this reaction show their true face, and the easy way they can always do by just let fall an crew of thousand of fans without any reason.
(just my pov and my mind as a modder, i never let peoples like that without an extremly good reason)
1. What facts is this supposed to convey? The symbolism implies that the illusion of support is dead. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that was what you were going for.
2. I'm kind of happy with the conclusion, but this played out badly.
3. I'm going to be honest: I might have supported this if the modders got a bigger cut. 45% is ridiculous when you're done working on the game (especially when some of these mods fix things that you didn't).
4. I don't get why some people act like ALL modders were for this. Several came out against it, some of them big names.
Writer for Beyond Skyrim here, technically a modder, and I am 100% against paid mods. More so when the supporters of it are trying to make this into "Mod-users are entitled children!" or "this was all a giant mod-user versus modder debate!"
I've even seen people on other modding forums for other games speak out against paid mods.
So? ok. Different account vary I do not have the mod in question, so I do not know. According some sources, he made his mod dependent on FNIS. IE: He did not use assets from that mod, he made it so that you also had to download that mod. Other sources say he took assets directly from FNIS, and still other say he used a behavior created by running FNIS.
I don't know which one it was, but is mod relying on another mod , which is free, in order to work properly is not theft. It is having dependencies. Kind of like if someone were to post a mod here which relied on textures or meshes from a mod not allowed on here (such as SG hairs, I am just throwing that one out there.) i don't know how much you know about modding, but essentially that means hi mod might have been able to run without using FNIS, but it would not right well. That does not mean he was stealing content, just that he was making it dependent.
Wrong. FNIS is not free, it never was.
I have never allowed to upload FNIS on ANY OTHER site except Nexus.
And there are a few variants between "including assets" and being "dependent on assets". For example using the output of a restricted tool. If you use a compiler, for example, for which you don't have the license for, then you are not allowed to distribute programs created with this compiler. And that's what we had here.
Fore, I apologize if I upset you, that was not my intent. I was trying to say that FNIS is available on the nexus at no charge for people to use. I have a few...issues...and cannot always get my words right. However I was not saying that someone should be able to use content from your mod for paid mods, I was saying that there had been several different accounts of what Chesko had use from it for his mod in question, or if he had used any of it and it just required FNIS to work properly. As I said, there have been different accounts, but I appreciate your actually bringing clarification to the matter.
Well, weren't some mod makers (for a short time) also out to make money on the Curated steam workshop? I don't really think that point is up for debate either. Otherwise, if that wasn't the goal, why would someone even sign their mods up for it? Or remove their mods from here in order to upload them over there?
I believe Azradun's point was to say the two situations are basically the same. It was a parallel argument comparing those mods "just requiring Skyrim" in order to work, and those mods just requiring another program like FNIS in order to work. Meaning just like mods requiring Skyrim rightly owe a percentage (in this case 45%) to the original developer for making their mod possible, it would make sense that mods requiring another program like FNIS would also owe a percentage to that developer for making their mod possible.
That is the debate. I don't think all mod authors were in it just for the money, and I don't think all of them were in this to rip off mod users, which was Azradun's other point. However, this is already a discussion in another post, and I don't feel like repeating myself. But I do not believe that it was all about the money for some authors, or even for the first ones tagged for the project. I never said that Fores should not receive part of the the profit, once again, this has been discussed in the the other line of conversation, and I will not reiterate it here. I do not feel that this is the proper place to have this talk as it is cluttering up someone's mod page, and to me that feels rude. If you want to continue this discussion (regardless of the outcome) I will do so on a forum thread, but not here where it is taking up space on a mod. I would not want someone to do that on one of my pages, and I do not want to do it on someone elses page.
Well, When it comes to my main point, it doesn't really matter if money was the main motivating factor. Motivation is actually irrelevant because money is (was) involved regardless of that being someones main reason for wanting to upload their mods to the "curated" workshop. (This is also true for game makers at Bethesda, because that's probably not always their main motivating factor for wanting to make games). Making money is simply the side effect or the main consequence of having mods on a paid site, you get "paid." I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with that. I actually don't have a problem with modders making money off of their work, or having a mod marketplace where they can profit off of that work. I was simply addressing one particular point that you made earlier...
" I don't know which one it was, but is^ mod relying on another mod , which is free, in order to work properly is not theft. It is having dependencies..."
...and clarifying why I thought Azudun's statement...
"just required FNIS to work properly"
Mods that use brand new assets (not retextured Bethesda's ones) just require Skyrim to work properly. So why 45% from sales went to Bethesda? "
...was a good argument against that.
The example in question was FNIS, and I was describing why I thought Azudun's comparison argument is in fact correct. I'm glad to hear you do agree with that point, because just as it would be theft to charge for mods that rely on Skyrim without first having Bethesda's permission, it would be theft to charge for mods that rely on FNIS without first having Fore's permission.
As for your last point, normally I would agree with you that it's rude to clutter up someone's mod page with a discussion like this, however in this particular case I do not believe that's true. The whole point of this mod named "community" with a picture of a tomb stone on the front, is meant to make a statement regarding this issue of paid vs. free mods and those who agree or don't. What is support? What isn't support? Making a statement is usually meant to invoke thoughts on the subject matter and therefore spurring discussion regarding that statement should be expected. If it's not, then what's the point of making a statement?
I can totally understand how you must feel frustrated about this whole mess. Paid mods existing or not, I am sure that the whole situation was handled poorly both by Valve and the modding community (especially the haters).
so, can I +1 this comment? Also, I find it hilarious how many protest mods were put out and up-voted during this whole thing. Gods help you if you said you did not like them. But this person puts out a mod about feeling betrayed by the hate in the community (there was a lot of hate, I don't care which side you were on), and people start getting all aggressive again. This is not said to start an argument, it is just an observation on popular opinion.
@Galadreal you're completely right. The moment I write anywhere that I understand why mod authors are pissed off I get a handful of people replying to me about why paid modding was terrible, that I am dumb for siding with the paid mods, etc. I never sided with paid mods - I simply sympathize with mod authors who walked away from this situation feeling betrayed. I wasn't on any side, actually. There's very good reasons to want paid modding, and very good reasons to not want paid modding.
But, I guess if you don't have an opinion that is completely catered to one side, you'll always belong to the other side. Reminds me of the entire GamerGate thing; Pro-GG called me Anti-GG and Anti-GG called me Pro-GG, just because I didn't believe one of either sides was in the right.
HA HA! Sorry, it is just that I posted a thread on the forum about all the hatred flying about, even stating that I did not support either side, and attacked by both sides. So I completely understand.
I think that both sides had correct points, but neither was 100% right. But I do not agree at all with how this was handled and all the hatred and venom spewed by the loudest people. When I said I was hiding my mods until this died down, because I was not going to be around to offer support, and that was not fair to anyone who used them, I got told I was being butthurt and a hypocrite. But sometimes you just need to walk away from the situation.
Edit: also, after some of the hate and threats that some modders received, it makes me not want to be around people. Once again, I know it was not everyone doing it, but the whole place was chaos, and like I said, sometimes it is just better to walk away.
Almost everyone with an average IQ of 70 would understand that mod authors are pissed off.
As for me, my only qualm is how they feel betrayed. I'm not going to say this whole thing did them a favor, because in reality it sure didn't, but I just don't understand how they don't see it's more bad than good for them.
Yeah, people doing all the stupid stuff are retarded, but that's a given since this is the internet. I'm sad to see good mod authors going away. Have a nice one, foster. Do hope to see you doing something eventually and just have this as a really bad, forgetful memory that should never be talked about again.
Those modders were thinking "yes, as long as I am paid something, it's perfectly ok if people will have to pay 4 times the price from their own pockets" and were good with that. So they wanted me to get scammed for 75% and were insulted that they didn't receive support with that?
And yes, threats and insults were reprehensible. But I didn't see much of it here, on Nexus - it was rampant on Steam Workshop, so maybe you should take your grievances with Valve...
How do you know what anyone was thinking? Seriously? The modders that were in place when this started were all approached by Valve or Bethesda and asked if they would be a part of this project. From the open letter Chesko put out, he said it was a great opportunity for someone in his profession to be chosen for something like that and really had nothing to do with the money. From what I can tell, at least part of them saw it as some sort of amazing opportunity to be approached by a video game company you would like to actually work for.
Edit: Forgot to mention, many of these mods still had a free version here on the Nexus. Some people took their stuff down to move over to Steam, but most of them left a free version, one that worked fine, but was not new, here, for free. No one HAD to go over and buy the fancy new thing.
And if you did not see some of those threats here, then you were not looking, or the Moderators were just working that fast to fix the damage. I saw several posts of "F*ck off and die you greedy bastard" and things like that. I think they may have cleaned up some of it, but if you go look at any of Chesko or Isoku's mod pages you will see the kind of harassment that they got hit with.
Exactly. And I don't see how paying for a product can be considered a "scam". Everyday we buy products and pay for them a price that is several times more expensive than the cost of production.
Chesko knew that the mod he tried to capitalize was built on free resources from another mod, FNIS. He went so far as to delete people's comments pointing that fact. He just ignored this and counted on not getting caught.
Observe I'm not using stronger words absolutely acceptable in this case.
Chesko addressed that in a public statement. he has spoken to the people at valve, and they told him it would be fine for his mod to rely on another free mod. You can find the open letter yourself if you are interested in reading it, but he said that once FNIS contacted him about it, they talked, and that is why he tried to remove it from steam. If you go and look at the sticky post in the top of the comments of FNIS, he makes a statement about it as well.
Also, if he was deleting comments, it was probably because they were hateful. Once again, several people became very aggressive when this started. And even now, some people seem to delight in trying to spread misinformation.
" he has spoken to the people at valve, and they told him it would be fine for his mod to rely on another free mod"
Yes, I've seen it. So? He only followed orders, right? He could take what he want and take money? He did know he was capitalizing on another's free mod (by proxy) and he went and did it.
And my comment wasn't hateful. Too bad I didn't make a screenshot, I didn't anticipate him removing it.
Valve said it was OK to use free assets on a paid mod as long as Valve was concerned. If the author of the assets did not want it to be used on paid mods (like FNIS later stated on their description page), the paid mod could not use these assets, obviously.
So? ok. Different account vary I do not have the mod in question, so I do not know. According some sources, he made his mod dependent on FNIS. IE: He did not use assets from that mod, he made it so that you also had to download that mod. Other sources say he took assets directly from FNIS, and still other say he used a behavior created by running FNIS.
I don't know which one it was, but is mod relying on another mod , which is free, in order to work properly is not theft. It is having dependencies. Kind of like if someone were to post a mod here which relied on textures or meshes from a mod not allowed on here (such as SG hairs, I am just throwing that one out there.) i don't know how much you know about modding, but essentially that means hi mod might have been able to run without using FNIS, but it would not right well. That does not mean he was stealing content, just that he was making it dependent.
Once again, I don't know. I don't have the mod in question, and there as been a lot of conflicting information put out.
Also, I can only infer, from what you are saying, that he deleted a post you wrote, since you said yours was not hateful. but after all the hate he did receive he may have been burned out on it. Or he may not have wanted a bunch of comments about one mod cluttering up another one he had. I don't know, I don't know what he was thinking any more than you do.
FYi, you are seeming to get very aggressive now. If you would like to continue this discussion civility, feel free to PM me. But I don't think this is an appropraite loaction to continue, considering this discussion has nothing to do with the mod here..
"FYi, you are seeming to get very aggressive now."
Really now? A polite talk about facts is now "very aggressive"? That is a strong projection on your part. "Free from harassment" doesn't mean "free from any kind of criticism" you know. I think the moderators can see and judge for themselves if I am really "getting very aggressive", but I disagree with your opinion. You are not entitled to silence people who simply don't agree with you...
"I don't know which one it was, but is mod relying on another mod , which is free, in order to work properly is not theft. It is having dependencies."
While it may be legal per se (at least according to Bethesda and their rules of licencing), it is certainly not ethical. Especially concerning your own stance that modders should be paid for their hard work. A mod with dependencies is essentially useless without assets its dependent on, so what about its monetary value? For example, you can't just take most of open source projects, close them and sell things based on them, if they have a special kind of GPL licence (I don't remember which one it was, the one that is contagious). And what about decency and mod etiquette? I guess those things should go to the drain as soon as money became involved?
Yes, it was bad that he was harassed so much, this was vile. But that doesn't change the facts and I don't think people should receive too much benefit of the doubt simply for being harassed. Those are two separate issues.
Generally speaking, when someone asks a quick succession of questions is considered aggressive. I was not saying you should not debate, simply that the way you were responded seemed to be getting heated based on that fact.
I also suggested that we continue this discussion via PM because it has no base on this mod, and having this debate here seems rude. But feel free to carry on, I suppose the mod author can delete this thread if they are upset by it. I don't personally care if you talk until you are blue in the face, I was trying to avoid being rude to the mod author, or anyone else who might actually want to post on this thread about the mod. It seems a bit selfish to continue here, but fine, we can do that.
Also, you are putting words in my mouth. I have never once stated that modder should be paid for their hard work, I said they should have the option for it. If they have spend a large amount of time on a mod and want to charge, I think that should be their choice. The whole dependance thing is another level of work altogether. I believe that Chesko should have contacted Fore before he put out a paid mod with FNIS as a dependency. Clearly, he did not. However, considering that he was clearly not well informed on the situation to start with (which resulted in his losing the right to his mods) might indicate that, surprise! he just screwed up. People do that all the time. Not usually in this public of a forum, but it does happen.
I am not giving him the benefit of the doubt because he was harassed. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt because everyone makes mistakes and I don't (generally) believe in punishing people just because they make a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes. I know I have, I figure you have too. I read his statements on the subject, they seemed sincere in his reasons for going along with this, and his regret over the situation. No one died, the world was not engulfed in flames, and the whole paid for mods has ended. I will not deny that it happened, I will not deny that it was a bad idea for many reasons. But you started out on this post saying that all mod authors were only thinking about money and how to rip people off. I still disagree with that. I am sure some authors did, but for the ones that were singled out, I think it had more to do with seeing this as an opportunity to work with a large gaming company, and for some people, that would be the chance of a lifetime.
"seeing this as an opportunity to work with a large gaming company, and for some people, that would be the chance of a lifetime"
See, this is another thing I had a problem with regarding the whole paid mod debacle. That some select, small number of modders were approached in secret. They had a head start before everyone else - more than a month to prepare plus 7 day weening period for new mods. This was anti-community driven from the beginning. Why not a public announcement to even the odds? It seems very unfair to me to pick up some modders to "work with a large gaming company" in secret, and ignore the rest.
About mistakes. Yes, everybody makes them. I was even fired for one a long time ago. But it's all in the context. An honest accidental mistake will be treated differently than a mistake resulting from a calculated thing meant for someone's profit that simply didn't work. You seem to conflate the two, possibly out of convenience to your line of argumentation.
"I also suggested that we continue this discussion via PM because it has no base on this mod, and having this debate here seems rude."
And talking about "feeling betrayed by the hate in the community" like you did isn't? You used actual aggressive terms in a reference to a whole group of people and you expect them to just shut up and not discuss it. Ok. Not gonna happen. I said repeatedly that harassment and threats were vile. That it's not to say the entire community, as you imply, is hateful. Far from it.
Nothing I say will change your mind, you have your opinions, and you will continue to have them. I have my opinions, and they will stay that way, unless someone presents a strong logical discussion that is persuasive enough to make me change them. Thus is life.
If you really want to quote something I said, how about this one: "sometimes it is just better to walk away" I don't actually want to argue with you, and I will no longer do it on someone's mod page. Go start a forum thread or something if you want this discussion to continue. It will never be resolved as we will never see eye to eye, but I am not going to talk about it here anymore regardless, because it is just rude.
Edited for clarity, to remove redundancy, and to correct spelling
A better title for this mod would have been "Marketplace."
I think it's a little bit misleading to say that supporting a community = paying money for mods and that anything less in an illusion of support. There's plenty of other ways that people support mods and the modders in a "community" as a whole. After all, money doesn't = a community.
Now I personally didn't have a problem with there being be a place for free modding and a place modders to sell their mods, but I think a better title for your mod might be "Marketplace" because that's really what died here, not the community and especially not the nexus community which would have always remained free regardless of what steam was doing.
There's a bit of anger below... Uh, why? I always thought the Nexus was a way to express yourself, an art gallery for mods if you will... to me the only mods that deserve grief are ones that break the rules of the Nexus.
Other mods can be commented on, especially emotional mods like this. Yes, the author is free to express himself, but I can also comment on it as long as I remain polite.
I see what you mean, and I agree with your statement; yes we are all aloud to voice our opinions too. But I notice you used the keyword "polite" a word that some people (at least for the moment) are having trouble with the concept.
70 comments
I would rather have author released content on nexus and Bethesda. Choices yes but I will still use Nexus. Create a key that simply takes the best features out if someone "steals" for resale. Or a paid key. I'm willing to donate for the right mods and I have and do support/supported mod authors. Now I hope they remember to support this community. Quit hiding assets please - it is a crime to cover wonderful art. I can understand intellectual property theft or created property theft (Commercially I have lost art work to PUBLICLY owned businesses and theft of assets is bulls***!) but remember without Skyrim and Bethesda releasing it we wouldn't have this platform with out them or the Nexus.
There is enough sweet created content even being released daily that is worth supporting, including older mods as well. There is enough for everyone and with the loss of a venue like FileFront mods NEED to be protected from Data Loss. These are works of art, digital yes but still art. It should be protected. I'm not switching to Skyrim Special Edition. I'm already playing that now without some tacked on after the fact God Ray Lighting simply to lure people to use the Bethesda paid mods system. We NEED to support the work still here and the artists that create it.
I believe the modding community will never be the same. Bethesda/vavle has divided us. That may have been their intent. Why would they do this? Simple, because the modders have made a Skyrim far superior to anything Bethesda ever dreamed of. Their new offering will have to compete with it. That will be a tough act. I hope I am wrong.
But what is done is done. Instead of all the infighting its time for healing pulling back together.
I fear Skyrim may have been the last truly mod able game for the pc. I hope I am wrong. But that the next generation of games will almost certainly be locked to the give me free money path of bethesda/vavle. Modders will lose, gamers will lose, but so will the game studios. Kill the goose that laid the golden egg. Yahoo, good show.
peace to one and all.
shame on all the modder who have use this as an excuse for quit the steam workshop to the nexus. they didnt havent any reason to do this. they always can let their mod on workshop for free.
those modder are not "modder", even if some of them are extremly popular. this reaction show their true face, and the easy way they can always do by just let fall an crew of thousand of fans without any reason.
(just my pov and my mind as a modder, i never let peoples like that without an extremly good reason)
2. I'm kind of happy with the conclusion, but this played out badly.
3. I'm going to be honest: I might have supported this if the modders got a bigger cut. 45% is ridiculous when you're done working on the game (especially when some of these mods fix things that you didn't).
4. I don't get why some people act like ALL modders were for this. Several came out against it, some of them big names.
I've even seen people on other modding forums for other games speak out against paid mods.
Wrong. FNIS is not free, it never was.
I have never allowed to upload FNIS on ANY OTHER site except Nexus.
And there are a few variants between "including assets" and being "dependent on assets". For example using the output of a restricted tool. If you use a compiler, for example, for which you don't have the license for, then you are not allowed to distribute programs created with this compiler. And that's what we had here.
Mods that use brand new assets (not retextured Bethesda's ones) just require Skyrim to work properly. So why 45% from sales went to Bethesda?
I believe Azradun's point was to say the two situations are basically the same. It was a parallel argument comparing those mods "just requiring Skyrim" in order to work, and those mods just requiring another program like FNIS in order to work. Meaning just like mods requiring Skyrim rightly owe a percentage (in this case 45%) to the original developer for making their mod possible, it would make sense that mods requiring another program like FNIS would also owe a percentage to that developer for making their mod possible.
However, this is already a discussion in another post, and I don't feel like repeating myself. But I do not believe that it was all about the money for some authors, or even for the first ones tagged for the project.
I never said that Fores should not receive part of the the profit, once again, this has been discussed in the the other line of conversation, and I will not reiterate it here. I do not feel that this is the proper place to have this talk as it is cluttering up someone's mod page, and to me that feels rude. If you want to continue this discussion (regardless of the outcome) I will do so on a forum thread, but not here where it is taking up space on a mod. I would not want someone to do that on one of my pages, and I do not want to do it on someone elses page.
" I don't know which one it was, but is^ mod relying on another mod , which is free, in order to work properly is not theft. It is having dependencies..."
...and clarifying why I thought Azudun's statement...
"just required FNIS to work properly"
Mods that use brand new assets (not retextured Bethesda's ones) just require Skyrim to work properly. So why 45% from sales went to Bethesda? "
...was a good argument against that.
The example in question was FNIS, and I was describing why I thought Azudun's comparison argument is in fact correct. I'm glad to hear you do agree with that point, because just as it would be theft to charge for mods that rely on Skyrim without first having Bethesda's permission, it would be theft to charge for mods that rely on FNIS without first having Fore's permission.
As for your last point, normally I would agree with you that it's rude to clutter up someone's mod page with a discussion like this, however in this particular case I do not believe that's true. The whole point of this mod named "community" with a picture of a tomb stone on the front, is meant to make a statement regarding this issue of paid vs. free mods and those who agree or don't. What is support? What isn't support? Making a statement is usually meant to invoke thoughts on the subject matter and therefore spurring discussion regarding that statement should be expected. If it's not, then what's the point of making a statement?
Also, I find it hilarious how many protest mods were put out and up-voted during this whole thing. Gods help you if you said you did not like them. But this person puts out a mod about feeling betrayed by the hate in the community (there was a lot of hate, I don't care which side you were on), and people start getting all aggressive again. This is not said to start an argument, it is just an observation on popular opinion.
The moment I write anywhere that I understand why mod authors are pissed off I get a handful of people replying to me about why paid modding was terrible, that I am dumb for siding with the paid mods, etc. I never sided with paid mods - I simply sympathize with mod authors who walked away from this situation feeling betrayed. I wasn't on any side, actually. There's very good reasons to want paid modding, and very good reasons to not want paid modding.
But, I guess if you don't have an opinion that is completely catered to one side, you'll always belong to the other side. Reminds me of the entire GamerGate thing; Pro-GG called me Anti-GG and Anti-GG called me Pro-GG, just because I didn't believe one of either sides was in the right.
I think that both sides had correct points, but neither was 100% right. But I do not agree at all with how this was handled and all the hatred and venom spewed by the loudest people. When I said I was hiding my mods until this died down, because I was not going to be around to offer support, and that was not fair to anyone who used them, I got told I was being butthurt and a hypocrite. But sometimes you just need to walk away from the situation.
Edit: also, after some of the hate and threats that some modders received, it makes me not want to be around people. Once again, I know it was not everyone doing it, but the whole place was chaos, and like I said, sometimes it is just better to walk away.
As for me, my only qualm is how they feel betrayed. I'm not going to say this whole thing did them a favor, because in reality it sure didn't, but I just don't understand how they don't see it's more bad than good for them.
Yeah, people doing all the stupid stuff are retarded, but that's a given since this is the internet. I'm sad to see good mod authors going away. Have a nice one, foster. Do hope to see you doing something eventually and just have this as a really bad, forgetful memory that should never be talked about again.
And yes, threats and insults were reprehensible. But I didn't see much of it here, on Nexus - it was rampant on Steam Workshop, so maybe you should take your grievances with Valve...
Edit: Forgot to mention, many of these mods still had a free version here on the Nexus. Some people took their stuff down to move over to Steam, but most of them left a free version, one that worked fine, but was not new, here, for free. No one HAD to go over and buy the fancy new thing.
And if you did not see some of those threats here, then you were not looking, or the Moderators were just working that fast to fix the damage. I saw several posts of "F*ck off and die you greedy bastard" and things like that. I think they may have cleaned up some of it, but if you go look at any of Chesko or Isoku's mod pages you will see the kind of harassment that they got hit with.
Observe I'm not using stronger words absolutely acceptable in this case.
Also, if he was deleting comments, it was probably because they were hateful. Once again, several people became very aggressive when this started. And even now, some people seem to delight in trying to spread misinformation.
Yes, I've seen it. So? He only followed orders, right? He could take what he want and take money? He did know he was capitalizing on another's free mod (by proxy) and he went and did it.
And my comment wasn't hateful. Too bad I didn't make a screenshot, I didn't anticipate him removing it.
Other sources say he took assets directly from FNIS, and still other say he used a behavior created by running FNIS.
I don't know which one it was, but is mod relying on another mod , which is free, in order to work properly is not theft. It is having dependencies. Kind of like if someone were to post a mod here which relied on textures or meshes from a mod not allowed on here (such as SG hairs, I am just throwing that one out there.) i don't know how much you know about modding, but essentially that means hi mod might have been able to run without using FNIS, but it would not right well. That does not mean he was stealing content, just that he was making it dependent.
Once again, I don't know. I don't have the mod in question, and there as been a lot of conflicting information put out.
Also, I can only infer, from what you are saying, that he deleted a post you wrote, since you said yours was not hateful. but after all the hate he did receive he may have been burned out on it. Or he may not have wanted a bunch of comments about one mod cluttering up another one he had. I don't know, I don't know what he was thinking any more than you do.
FYi, you are seeming to get very aggressive now. If you would like to continue this discussion civility, feel free to PM me. But I don't think this is an appropraite loaction to continue, considering this discussion has nothing to do with the mod here..
Really now? A polite talk about facts is now "very aggressive"? That is a strong projection on your part. "Free from harassment" doesn't mean "free from any kind of criticism" you know. I think the moderators can see and judge for themselves if I am really "getting very aggressive", but I disagree with your opinion. You are not entitled to silence people who simply don't agree with you...
"I don't know which one it was, but is mod relying on another mod , which is free, in order to work properly is not theft. It is having dependencies."
While it may be legal per se (at least according to Bethesda and their rules of licencing), it is certainly not ethical. Especially concerning your own stance that modders should be paid for their hard work. A mod with dependencies is essentially useless without assets its dependent on, so what about its monetary value? For example, you can't just take most of open source projects, close them and sell things based on them, if they have a special kind of GPL licence (I don't remember which one it was, the one that is contagious). And what about decency and mod etiquette? I guess those things should go to the drain as soon as money became involved?
Yes, it was bad that he was harassed so much, this was vile. But that doesn't change the facts and I don't think people should receive too much benefit of the doubt simply for being harassed. Those are two separate issues.
I also suggested that we continue this discussion via PM because it has no base on this mod, and having this debate here seems rude. But feel free to carry on, I suppose the mod author can delete this thread if they are upset by it. I don't personally care if you talk until you are blue in the face, I was trying to avoid being rude to the mod author, or anyone else who might actually want to post on this thread about the mod. It seems a bit selfish to continue here, but fine, we can do that.
Also, you are putting words in my mouth. I have never once stated that modder should be paid for their hard work, I said they should have the option for it. If they have spend a large amount of time on a mod and want to charge, I think that should be their choice. The whole dependance thing is another level of work altogether. I believe that Chesko should have contacted Fore before he put out a paid mod with FNIS as a dependency. Clearly, he did not. However, considering that he was clearly not well informed on the situation to start with (which resulted in his losing the right to his mods) might indicate that, surprise! he just screwed up. People do that all the time. Not usually in this public of a forum, but it does happen.
I am not giving him the benefit of the doubt because he was harassed. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt because everyone makes mistakes and I don't (generally) believe in punishing people just because they make a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes. I know I have, I figure you have too. I read his statements on the subject, they seemed sincere in his reasons for going along with this, and his regret over the situation. No one died, the world was not engulfed in flames, and the whole paid for mods has ended. I will not deny that it happened, I will not deny that it was a bad idea for many reasons. But you started out on this post saying that all mod authors were only thinking about money and how to rip people off. I still disagree with that. I am sure some authors did, but for the ones that were singled out, I think it had more to do with seeing this as an opportunity to work with a large gaming company, and for some people, that would be the chance of a lifetime.
See, this is another thing I had a problem with regarding the whole paid mod debacle. That some select, small number of modders were approached in secret. They had a head start before everyone else - more than a month to prepare plus 7 day weening period for new mods. This was anti-community driven from the beginning. Why not a public announcement to even the odds? It seems very unfair to me to pick up some modders to "work with a large gaming company" in secret, and ignore the rest.
About mistakes. Yes, everybody makes them. I was even fired for one a long time ago. But it's all in the context. An honest accidental mistake will be treated differently than a mistake resulting from a calculated thing meant for someone's profit that simply didn't work. You seem to conflate the two, possibly out of convenience to your line of argumentation.
"I also suggested that we continue this discussion via PM because it has no base on this mod, and having this debate here seems rude."
And talking about "feeling betrayed by the hate in the community" like you did isn't? You used actual aggressive terms in a reference to a whole group of people and you expect them to just shut up and not discuss it. Ok. Not gonna happen. I said repeatedly that harassment and threats were vile. That it's not to say the entire community, as you imply, is hateful. Far from it.
If you really want to quote something I said, how about this one: "sometimes it is just better to walk away" I don't actually want to argue with you, and I will no longer do it on someone's mod page. Go start a forum thread or something if you want this discussion to continue. It will never be resolved as we will never see eye to eye, but I am not going to talk about it here anymore regardless, because it is just rude.
Edited for clarity, to remove redundancy, and to correct spelling
I think it's a little bit misleading to say that supporting a community = paying money for mods and that anything less in an illusion of support. There's plenty of other ways that people support mods and the modders in a "community" as a whole. After all, money doesn't = a community.
Now I personally didn't have a problem with there being be a place for free modding and a place modders to sell their mods, but I think a better title for your mod might be "Marketplace" because that's really what died here, not the community and especially not the nexus community which would have always remained free regardless of what steam was doing.
Banned - TVD.
Other mods can be commented on, especially emotional mods like this. Yes, the author is free to express himself, but I can also comment on it as long as I remain polite.