"Long range aggro is a 'feature' of idnpc, and it's going to happen with or without animal tweaks. Some people really don't like it, and they're trying to make YOU change it because versonshu won't. Just tell them to stop using idnpc if they don't like it, because it really has nothing to do with you."
Shaiwan:
"Is this mod what's causing wolves to detect me from a mile away? even when they're on the other side of a mountain with no way to see, smell, or hear me?"
Versonshu (author of Immersive Detection of NPC):
"Yes, falmer, wolf, polar bear, werewolf will smell you from miles away"
CrushBoss:
"Animal Tweaks is being blamed for all sorts of weird behavior that is largely due to 'Immersive Detection of NPC'."
"I've already made too many compromises to Animal Tweaks to attempt making them both compatible. I've gone as far as I'm willing to go. I lowered the aggro range on many of them. Further tweaks would make me unhappy with my vision of the mod."
Players need to stop installing the 'Immersive Detection of NPC' mod and then coming to Animal Tweaks and blaming it for all it's problems.
Symptoms of IDNPC:
1. Actors will aggro on the player from long range 2. Many different actor types will join in on the fight and overwhelm the player 3. Aggressive actors may terrorize the countryside and attack everything in sight (from long range)
-Updated SkyTEST patch to work with version 1.44 of SkyTEST -Changed the name of 'Animal Tweaks - Fewer Knockdowns.esp' to 'Animal Tweaks.esp' so the Patches would reference the correct master. No other changes.
Animal Tweaks 2.5 Release Info
-No more skating Giants - slowed down their movement speed to match their default run animation -Slowed wolves down a bit to be more realistic -Updated the SOT (Sands of Time) patch -Updated the Base Game Compatible patch - now includes the Fewer Knockdowns changes -Added a new 'Fewer Knockdowns' version - player requested - finally available! Reduces knockdown chance by 50% - 75% depending on the creature type.
NOTE: Some of these changes won't take effect on existing creatures and actors already spawned in the game. Once all the cells reset you should see the new behavior.
Animal Tweaks 2.4 Release Info
-100% USLEEP compatibility -Wolves will no longer run back and forth like their heads are cut off -Chickens, cows, dogs, and all animals will no longer go to the guards and report crimes against the player (funny, but it was actually occurring) -Misc tweaks, fixes, and improvements -Updated the patches for OBIS and Sands of Time
Animal Tweaks 2.3 Release Info
-Fixed level 3 spider spit and level 2 chaurus spit. Also made minor adjustments to spider and chaurus poison and spit. -Moved some of the racial abilities from the actor records to the race records. They work identically in both locations but they are more properly placed in the race record. They are usually only placed in the actor record if the actor record doesn't have it's own unique race and needs too in order to implement proper actor abilities/changes. I hope this makes sense. -Reversed roughly 20% of the aggro changes I made in version 2.1. Some actors weren't behaving properly with the modified settings. Slaughterfish, for example, weren't aggressive anymore. They are now fixed. The other actors behave more appropriately now. -Minor adjustment to the Frost Troll abilities -Minor misc tweaks and fixes -Updated all the patches except for SIC and OBIS which don't require an update - All known bugs are fixed in version 2.3 of Animal Tweaks
Animal Tweaks 2.2 Release Info
- Faction fixes and improvements to improve realism and immersion. I used a combination of vanilla, USKP, SkyTEST, and Animal Tweaks faction changes for version 2.2. I won't be able to please everyone but hopefully I'll come close! - Giant foot and hand damage is fixed - Giants and Mammoths are finally behaving like I originally wanted them to. Mammoths will no longer come to the defense of Giants but Giants will protect and guard Mammoths. Tweaked the Giant combat style. - Many minor tweaks, adjustments, and improvements - Bears, Giants, Mammoths, and Trolls are nerfed even more in the 'Base Game Balanced Patch' - Updated compatibility patches - Animal Tweaks – SIC Patch - from oqhansoloqo -- Fixed “bear cub” and “cave bear cub” names from “brown bear cub” and “black bear cub” -- Changed size categories to the next smaller level for all the cub/pup types -- Lowered damage and health (they had been too high and didn’t make sense for how small they actually are in comparison to the adults) -- Lowered reach because they are smaller -- I fixed all of SIC’s “bear” and “cave bear” NPC variants so that they use the proper textures and attack data -- I also added Pygmy Hill Troll modifications to NPC and Race: because they are ½ size of standard troll I got rid of their ability to knockdown and removed their inability to get knocked down - All known bugs are fixed in version 2.2 of Animal Tweaks
Animal Tweaks 2.1 Release Info
Attempt to make Animal Tweaks compatible with 'Immersive Detection of NPC' - Took all actors that were set to 'Very Aggressive' and changed them to 'Aggressive' and gave them all aggro radius data Deer and Elk will now flee from the player at a realistic distance Giant sized creatures can no longer be stagger locked by multiple attackers Improvements to several creatures including 'Wisp Mother' and 'Spriggan Matron' - Should be a more challenging fight Made Large and Giant mudcrabs slightly larger in size to match their deadly combat Fixed Mudcrab, Giant, and Mammoth aggro and behavior Changed 'Black Bears' back to 'Cave Bears' - Skyrim lore sets them as a sub-species of Brown Bears which are slightly larger and tougher than Brown Bears but weaker than Snow Bears - Adjusted their stats accordingly Minor bug fixes and improvements Updated compatibility patches Added a Skyrim Immersive Creatures patch - Cubs no longer have their parent's combat damage and knockdown abilities - All credit goes to oqhansoloqo and evrymetul for this patch - Thank you!
New game recommended for best results. Some data gets baked into your saved games and will hold onto old data so you will not see all the changes and improvements if upgrading to an existing game. Any patch that captures animal data will need to be rebuilt (i.e. PatchusMaximus, SkyRe, SkyProc, etc.). Bashed Patch will be unaffected.
Feedback is very appreciated from players starting a new game with Animal Tweaks 2.1 and Immersive Detection of NPC.
Aggressive Elks Animal Movement Speed was too high Animals accelerated too fast Kyne's Peace Shout now works on all animals properly Vanilla actor, faction, race, movement, abilities, and AI fixes (mostly vanilla Skyrim bugs) Animals that are dropped/spawned from the sky will no longer die (vanilla Skyrim bug)
New Features
Improvements to animal movement - especially Giants and Mammoths Animals will wander more and be more active when appropriate Kyne's Peace shout is more effective and has added benefits Animal Allegiance shout is more effective and has added benefits All actors are now immune to Paralysis if magic resistance is 60% or higher - (no defense in vanilla Skyrim to Paralysis which is silly) Damage Scaling for all animals - level based Reduced Movement Speed when injured - exception - Trolls and Wisps Cells are set to reset every 72 hours (3 days) and cleared cells every 336 hours (14 days) to keep areas more alive with animals and creatures Hunters have been greatly improved to deal with the tougher animals - fully leveled scaled including gear - exception - Armor Mudcrabs are no longer hostile with their own kind Lesser creatures were given a 0.5 level multiplier - Deer, Elk, Mudcrabs (small), Horkers, Skeevers, Slaughterfish, and Wisps Adjusted Poison damage for Spiders and Chaurus - slightly lower Numerous Faction changes to improve realism and immersion Combat Style improvements Behavior improvements Numerous Race improvements - size, weight, attacks, damage, etc. Strengths and Weaknesses for nearly every animal/creature Large creatures such as Giants, Mammoths, Spriggan Matrons, Trolls, Bears, Sabre Cats, and Giant Spiders have the chance to knockdown enemies Animal name changes (minor) for variety and immersion All changes were meant to improve challenge and add variety/uniqueness to Skyrim's animals and creatures All changes were designed to improve realism and immersion while adding difficulty and challenge Much more!
New game highly recommended but not required. You will need to rebuild any SkyProc patches when switching to version 2.0.
The mod is still 100% script, leveled list, animation, sound, mesh, and texture free for maximum compatibility.
Animal Tweaks needs to be the last mod in your load order that edits animals. It does need to be placed before SkyProc patches such as Perma or SkyRe. It must be placed after Height Adjusted Races with True Giants if you are using that mod. All Animal Tweaks patches need to be placed after Animal Tweaks.esp in the load order and after both plugins that are affected.
WARNING
The player isn't always the toughest hero on the block! There will be encounters, especially at lower character levels, that will be above the player. Followers or other support is recommended when needed. Players must brave the dangerous world of Skyrim prepared (or die)! Ignore certain defenses at your own peril!
Animals are much more unique now. Players who say, "I only want to play a two-handed warrior or a bow wielding sneak thief" will end up dead. You must adapt to creatures with unique strengths and weaknesses now. A bow or sword will no longer kill every creature in the game. Skyrim is no longer a "all actors are the same, just with different textures" to make them appear different. Welcome to Animal Tweaks 2.0!
The skeleton has to be installed very last and overwrite all. The only reason why you would want to use the XPMSE 3.x skeleton is if you are using the HDT Physics mod and an HDT body (I personally recommend against it unless you are an advanced user and really have to have it).
If you do not use a good skeleton and mod that enables realistic body physics you may be thrown really far when knocked down. This aspect of the game was ignored in vanilla Skyrim. In vanilla Skyrim the player had little to no weight or mass.
Players using the Quick Reflexes perk, the Slow Time shout (or the Vampire version from Better Vampires) can still get knocked back a long distance if being hit while the slow time effect is occurring. This is a vanilla Skyrim bug. The Enhanced Camera mod can also cause this effect. Occasionally, giants can hit you and make you fly vertically into the clouds. This is a vanilla Skyrim bug.
NOTICE: SkyTEST versions newer than 1.44 are no longer compatible with Animal Tweaks. There are far too many conflicts between the two mods to make them work properly together. Too many compromises would have to be made.
There are still two SkyTEST compatibility patches available, one for the old SkyTEST version 1.38 and one for the newer SkyTEST version 1.44. Newer versions of SkyTEST will no longer be supported. I apologize for the inconvenience. I have done all that I can.
I honestly can't recommend this mod. Animals being a bigger threat early game felt fine, being level 1 and coming across wolves was actually worrisome, but I'm currently level 100+ with maxed out Heavy armor and I literally cannot fight Trolls or Giants.
I'm playing on Expert difficulty and Trolls regenerate faster than I can deal damage, and if I do manage to out-damage them, getting knocked down gives them ample time to regenerate every bit of HP I managed to chip away. As for Giants, I swing my Battleaxe and I see literally no change in their HP bar.
When a path is blocked by a Troll or Giant my only option is to find an alternative route.
Unfortunately this one refuses to play friendly with my load order (or it does, and is supposed to get you permastunned if a troll or sabrecat gets into mellee). Given that i use "less knockdown" option, i feel its the first one. How do i properly uninstall it? Because just disabling it in NMM seem to reduce stats back to pre-mod state, but doesnt take away creatures newfound talents to play basketball with my character.
Fair warning, if you use this mod combined with other mods like Wild Cat and Ultimate Combat, prepare for the animals of Skyrim to become truly powerful foes, you NEED to use Skyrim Bandages, for the anti-venom bandage. So far the only extremely overpowered animals I have encountered were Giant Mudcrabs lol, I like the way this mod handles everything else though, encounters with Bears and Sabre cats should be extremely dangerous and everything beyond even more so. I should also state that I use TK Dodge, Attack Commitment, and Backup Movement Speed Reduction, very important for making a playthrough even possible with the aforementioned mods. All in all, this is an excellent mod, and the animals don't knock you down nearly as much as Skywild. Thank you CrushBoss!
Azulyn wrote: all i really want is the improved AI and speed values. SkyTEST is too buggy and unstable to be bothered with, unfortunately.
It's just a shame this mod makes most animals damage sponge. It also forces out the roleplaying concept entirely when you are pretty much required to invest in magic to stand a chance against certain enemies.
You can get the improved AI and speeds and nothing else from this mod very easily with TES5Edit. Simply open the file in TES5Edit, and delete the following record sections within the plugin:
You should be left with just the "Faction", "Movement Type", and "Combat Style" record sections, which together basically do what you want.
thanks for this advice, just started a new game and ralof and I are getting wrecked by the frostbite spiders... so this mod = game over before you can even leave helgen… it is possible to beat them but it is so dumb cause ralof gets killed everytime, it's just ridiculous and the fight would probably take you 20 minutes of running around avoiding getting mobbed
933 comments
AdventureCat:
"Long range aggro is a 'feature' of idnpc, and it's going to happen with or without animal tweaks. Some people really don't like it, and they're trying to make YOU change it because versonshu won't. Just tell them to stop using idnpc if they don't like it, because it really has nothing to do with you."
Shaiwan:
"Is this mod what's causing wolves to detect me from a mile away? even when they're on the other side of a mountain with no way to see, smell, or hear me?"
Versonshu (author of Immersive Detection of NPC):
"Yes, falmer, wolf, polar bear, werewolf will smell you from miles away"
CrushBoss:
"Animal Tweaks is being blamed for all sorts of weird behavior that is largely due to 'Immersive Detection of NPC'."
"I've already made too many compromises to Animal Tweaks to attempt making them both compatible. I've gone as far as I'm willing to go. I lowered the aggro range on many of them. Further tweaks would make me unhappy with my vision of the mod."
Players need to stop installing the 'Immersive Detection of NPC' mod and then coming to Animal Tweaks and blaming it for all it's problems.
Symptoms of IDNPC:
1. Actors will aggro on the player from long range
2. Many different actor types will join in on the fight and overwhelm the player
3. Aggressive actors may terrorize the countryside and attack everything in sight (from long range)
Highly Recommended Mods List - can be found towards the bottom of any of my mod pages (Description). UPDATED: 03/05/2015
My Skyrim mod offerings:
Combat Evolved
Skyrim Guides and Tutorials
Longer Durations and Annoyance Fixes
Backup Movement Speed Reduction
Animal Tweaks
Marked for Death
-Updated SkyTEST patch to work with version 1.44 of SkyTEST
-Changed the name of 'Animal Tweaks - Fewer Knockdowns.esp' to 'Animal Tweaks.esp' so the Patches would reference the correct master. No other changes.
Animal Tweaks 2.5 Release Info
-No more skating Giants - slowed down their movement speed to match their default run animation
-Slowed wolves down a bit to be more realistic
-Updated the SOT (Sands of Time) patch
-Updated the Base Game Compatible patch - now includes the Fewer Knockdowns changes
-Added a new 'Fewer Knockdowns' version - player requested - finally available! Reduces knockdown chance by 50% - 75% depending on the creature type.
NOTE: Some of these changes won't take effect on existing creatures and actors already spawned in the game. Once all the cells reset you should see the new behavior.
Animal Tweaks 2.4 Release Info
-100% USLEEP compatibility
-Wolves will no longer run back and forth like their heads are cut off
-Chickens, cows, dogs, and all animals will no longer go to the guards and report crimes against the player (funny, but it was actually occurring)
-Misc tweaks, fixes, and improvements
-Updated the patches for OBIS and Sands of Time
Animal Tweaks 2.3 Release Info
-Fixed level 3 spider spit and level 2 chaurus spit. Also made minor adjustments to spider and chaurus poison and spit.
-Moved some of the racial abilities from the actor records to the race records. They work identically in both locations but they are more properly placed in the race record. They are usually only placed in the actor record if the actor record doesn't have it's own unique race and needs too in order to implement proper actor abilities/changes. I hope this makes sense.
-Reversed roughly 20% of the aggro changes I made in version 2.1. Some actors weren't behaving properly with the modified settings. Slaughterfish, for example, weren't aggressive anymore. They are now fixed. The other actors behave more appropriately now.
-Minor adjustment to the Frost Troll abilities
-Minor misc tweaks and fixes
-Updated all the patches except for SIC and OBIS which don't require an update
- All known bugs are fixed in version 2.3 of Animal Tweaks
Animal Tweaks 2.2 Release Info
- Faction fixes and improvements to improve realism and immersion. I used a combination of vanilla, USKP, SkyTEST, and Animal Tweaks faction changes for version 2.2. I won't be able to please everyone but hopefully I'll come close!
- Giant foot and hand damage is fixed
- Giants and Mammoths are finally behaving like I originally wanted them to. Mammoths will no longer come to the defense of Giants but Giants will protect and guard Mammoths. Tweaked the Giant combat style.
- Many minor tweaks, adjustments, and improvements
- Bears, Giants, Mammoths, and Trolls are nerfed even more in the 'Base Game Balanced Patch'
- Updated compatibility patches
- Animal Tweaks – SIC Patch - from oqhansoloqo
-- Fixed “bear cub” and “cave bear cub” names from “brown bear cub” and “black bear cub”
-- Changed size categories to the next smaller level for all the cub/pup types
-- Lowered damage and health (they had been too high and didn’t make sense for how small they actually are in comparison to the adults)
-- Lowered reach because they are smaller
-- I fixed all of SIC’s “bear” and “cave bear” NPC variants so that they use the proper textures and attack data
-- I also added Pygmy Hill Troll modifications to NPC and Race: because they are ½ size of standard troll I got rid of their ability to knockdown and removed their inability to get knocked down
- All known bugs are fixed in version 2.2 of Animal Tweaks
Animal Tweaks 2.1 Release Info
Attempt to make Animal Tweaks compatible with 'Immersive Detection of NPC' - Took all actors that were set to 'Very Aggressive' and changed them to 'Aggressive' and gave them all aggro radius data
Deer and Elk will now flee from the player at a realistic distance
Giant sized creatures can no longer be stagger locked by multiple attackers
Improvements to several creatures including 'Wisp Mother' and 'Spriggan Matron' - Should be a more challenging fight
Made Large and Giant mudcrabs slightly larger in size to match their deadly combat
Fixed Mudcrab, Giant, and Mammoth aggro and behavior
Changed 'Black Bears' back to 'Cave Bears' - Skyrim lore sets them as a sub-species of Brown Bears which are slightly larger and tougher than Brown Bears but weaker than Snow Bears - Adjusted their stats accordingly
Minor bug fixes and improvements
Updated compatibility patches
Added a Skyrim Immersive Creatures patch - Cubs no longer have their parent's combat damage and knockdown abilities - All credit goes to oqhansoloqo and evrymetul for this patch - Thank you!
New game recommended for best results. Some data gets baked into your saved games and will hold onto old data so you will not see all the changes and improvements if upgrading to an existing game. Any patch that captures animal data will need to be rebuilt (i.e. PatchusMaximus, SkyRe, SkyProc, etc.). Bashed Patch will be unaffected.
Feedback is very appreciated from players starting a new game with Animal Tweaks 2.1 and Immersive Detection of NPC.
Animal Tweaks 2.0 Release Info
Animals and Creatures Added
Giants
Horkers
Hunters
Skeevers
Spiders
Spriggans
Spriggan Matron
Wisps
Wisp Mother
Bugs Fixed
Aggressive Elks
Animal Movement Speed was too high
Animals accelerated too fast
Kyne's Peace Shout now works on all animals properly
Vanilla actor, faction, race, movement, abilities, and AI fixes (mostly vanilla Skyrim bugs)
Animals that are dropped/spawned from the sky will no longer die (vanilla Skyrim bug)
New Features
Improvements to animal movement - especially Giants and Mammoths
Animals will wander more and be more active when appropriate
Kyne's Peace shout is more effective and has added benefits
Animal Allegiance shout is more effective and has added benefits
All actors are now immune to Paralysis if magic resistance is 60% or higher - (no defense in vanilla Skyrim to Paralysis which is silly)
Damage Scaling for all animals - level based
Reduced Movement Speed when injured - exception - Trolls and Wisps
Cells are set to reset every 72 hours (3 days) and cleared cells every 336 hours (14 days) to keep areas more alive with animals and creatures
Hunters have been greatly improved to deal with the tougher animals - fully leveled scaled including gear - exception - Armor
Mudcrabs are no longer hostile with their own kind
Lesser creatures were given a 0.5 level multiplier - Deer, Elk, Mudcrabs (small), Horkers, Skeevers, Slaughterfish, and Wisps
Adjusted Poison damage for Spiders and Chaurus - slightly lower
Numerous Faction changes to improve realism and immersion
Combat Style improvements
Behavior improvements
Numerous Race improvements - size, weight, attacks, damage, etc.
Strengths and Weaknesses for nearly every animal/creature
Large creatures such as Giants, Mammoths, Spriggan Matrons, Trolls, Bears, Sabre Cats, and Giant Spiders have the chance to knockdown enemies
Animal name changes (minor) for variety and immersion
All changes were meant to improve challenge and add variety/uniqueness to Skyrim's animals and creatures
All changes were designed to improve realism and immersion while adding difficulty and challenge
Much more!
New game highly recommended but not required. You will need to rebuild any SkyProc patches when switching to version 2.0.
The mod is still 100% script, leveled list, animation, sound, mesh, and texture free for maximum compatibility.
Animal Tweaks needs to be the last mod in your load order that edits animals. It does need to be placed before SkyProc patches such as Perma or SkyRe. It must be placed after Height Adjusted Races with True Giants if you are using that mod. All Animal Tweaks patches need to be placed after Animal Tweaks.esp in the load order and after both plugins that are affected.
WARNING
The player isn't always the toughest hero on the block! There will be encounters, especially at lower character levels, that will be above the player. Followers or other support is recommended when needed. Players must brave the dangerous world of Skyrim prepared (or die)! Ignore certain defenses at your own peril!
Animals are much more unique now. Players who say, "I only want to play a two-handed warrior or a bow wielding sneak thief" will end up dead. You must adapt to creatures with unique strengths and weaknesses now. A bow or sword will no longer kill every creature in the game. Skyrim is no longer a "all actors are the same, just with different textures" to make them appear different. Welcome to Animal Tweaks 2.0!
Highly Recommended Mods / Play Testing
I play tested this mod using:
Realistic Ragdolls and Force - Realistic Force - You only need the ESP
XPMS Skeleton 1.94
Faster GET UP STAND UP Animation
The skeleton has to be installed very last and overwrite all. The only reason why you would want to use the XPMSE 3.x skeleton is if you are using the HDT Physics mod and an HDT body (I personally recommend against it unless you are an advanced user and really have to have it).
If you do not use a good skeleton and mod that enables realistic body physics you may be thrown really far when knocked down. This aspect of the game was ignored in vanilla Skyrim. In vanilla Skyrim the player had little to no weight or mass.
Players using the Quick Reflexes perk, the Slow Time shout (or the Vampire version from Better Vampires) can still get knocked back a long distance if being hit while the slow time effect is occurring. This is a vanilla Skyrim bug. The Enhanced Camera mod can also cause this effect. Occasionally, giants can hit you and make you fly vertically into the clouds. This is a vanilla Skyrim bug.
There are still two SkyTEST compatibility patches available, one for the old SkyTEST version 1.38 and one for the newer SkyTEST version 1.44. Newer versions of SkyTEST will no longer be supported. I apologize for the inconvenience. I have done all that I can.
Animals being a bigger threat early game felt fine, being level 1 and coming across wolves was actually worrisome, but I'm currently level 100+ with maxed out Heavy armor and I literally cannot fight Trolls or Giants.
I'm playing on Expert difficulty and Trolls regenerate faster than I can deal damage, and if I do manage to out-damage them, getting knocked down gives them ample time to regenerate every bit of HP I managed to chip away.
As for Giants, I swing my Battleaxe and I see literally no change in their HP bar.
When a path is blocked by a Troll or Giant my only option is to find an alternative route.
Not much fun.
Additionally, fully removing the mod seems to leave the animals stuck in "God mode". WTF!!!
How do i properly uninstall it? Because just disabling it in NMM seem to reduce stats back to pre-mod state, but doesnt take away creatures newfound talents to play basketball with my character.
I should also state that I use TK Dodge, Attack Commitment, and Backup Movement Speed Reduction, very important for making a playthrough even possible with the aforementioned mods.
All in all, this is an excellent mod, and the animals don't knock you down nearly as much as Skywild. Thank you CrushBoss!
thanks for this advice, just started a new game and ralof and I are getting wrecked by the frostbite spiders... so this mod = game over before you can even leave helgen… it is possible to beat them but it is so dumb cause ralof gets killed everytime, it's just ridiculous and the fight would probably take you 20 minutes of running around avoiding getting mobbed