The outstanding issues with the Forsworn Armor and Miraak's armor have been fixed.
If there are armors still invisible, please tell me which ones in the comments.
NOTE: For some reason I can't get Ulfric's clothes and similar looking Jarl's clothes to work. For some reason the mesh, even when extracted from the Skyrim .bsa throws up errors in the CK. If anyone has any idea why or can give me a working mesh, I'd appreciate it.
Would it not be possible (with permission) to adapt the mesh used in a Jarl clothing replacer mod, such as ... http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/51184/? ...? While not working (necessarily) with the vanilla mesh, I cannot imagine it'd make a huge difference if a slightly altered mesh appeared on Argonians.
Is that why: ClothesJarl02 "Fur-Trimmed Cloak" [ARMO:0008698C] ClothesUlfric "Ulfric's Clothes" [ARMO:00062303] show as ITM's in Tes5Edit? and is it OK to remove them?
All right! I have the stocked dwemer storage cube, which gives me every armor and clothing item in the game, so I thought I would try them all! I put together a list of all the clothing that gave me issues. First, a disclaimer:
1. This is when I attempted to convert the mod to SE 2. I may not have converted the mod correctly, since it was my first time 3. I have another mod, Practical Female Armors SE, that also affects the breast area. I highly recommend it. It adds a lot of realism. Anyway, this might be what's breaking things, but somehow I doubt it since most of the armors altered by that mod work just fine
Here's what was broken: Falmer Armor Falmer Hardened Armor (ankles invisible but otherwise fine) Falmer Heavy Armor (same issue as above) Fine Clothes (blue with fur cloak only) Fur armor (the two that appear in the inventory as skirt only) Hooded Black Robes (black mage robes are fine) Hooded Necromancer Robes Ragged Trousers Roughspun Tunic Studded Imperial Armor Tavern Clothes
All the others, including all versions of Dunmer clothes and ones that aren't in normal vanilla such as hooded red robes, are just fine! As you can see, it's relatively few that were broken.
I've decided to put this on the OP's comment stack instead of mine. Thank you so much for this mod. I love my female Argonian, even though her body occasionally disappears!
Mammal and reptile are mutually exclusive lineages. I suppose they could be basal amniotes (the common ancestors of both reptiles and mammals), but that's basically the same as a reptile. Since mammal and reptile are both specific terms that are wholly dependent on how life evolved on Earth though, it's probably more accurate to claim that argonians are neither mammal nor reptile since none of the creatures in-game descend from any kind of Earth fauna.
That being said, in Morrowind female argonians clearly have no breasts. The depiction as breasted in Oblivion was likely due to the same technical limitations that caused them to lose their unique skeletal posture rather than being any kind of "immersive or lore accurate" reason. Not having to either create unique flat-chested variants of all the armor or refit the male armor to the female bodies just for the sake of one race was probably a big time-saver for the development team so I don't begrudge them making that change, but I see no reason to view it as accurate to the reality of characters in-universe in the same way that the cities as presented in-game aren't accurate in-universe.
So tastes are tastes, but I'm just gonna throw some more lore out there for those interested. The Argonians have breasts likely because the Hist wanted them to. Their whole shape was given to them because the Hist saw the humanoid form and found it most useful. It is also thought by some that having breasts allows mother Argonians to perhaps supply Hist Sap via their breast due to many Argonians being born away from the Hist trees (from which they supposedly acquire their souls, or at least some form of magic that is physically and/or culturally significant). Also, saying they are "reptiles" is incorrect. They have gills for breathing under water, which reptiles do not have. They can somehow regulate their body temperature or remain active at least in extremely cold climates which is a mammalian feature. Some have feather hair, which is perhaps some semblance to certain dinosaurs, but otherwise is an avian feature. There may be other things but those are a few. I never quite understood the drive to comport a fantasy race to reality. In a world with magic and dragons, a humanoid (or anthro) race with a reptilian resemblance having boobs is what some have issue with. Makes me chuckle. Anyway, effort was put into a mod that people want so cudos, and carry on. Just wanted to point out some lore bits.
Birds ARE recent dinosaurs. Feathers are present in lots of dinosaur species. In some fossils (especially from china, where they ar preserved in much finer sediments) you can even see rests of pigments and (by comparing with recent feathered species) guess their colours.
Personally, I think Bethesda got lazy after Morrowind and decided to stick a lizard head on a human body instead of making as unique skeleton for the Argonians again.
Personally, I think Bethesda got lazy after Morrowind and decided to stick a lizard head on a human body instead of making as unique skeleton for the Argonians again.
Morrowind was literally the only Elder Scrolls game where female Argonians were flat chested. Every other game in the series before and after it had them with breasts. It wasn't them being lazy, it was them returning to form, since Morrowind's Argonians and Khajiit were radically different from what came before.
Female Argonians are also portrayed to have breasts, according to some sources, this is possibly an additional,[13] or the only,[14] way for an Argonian young to get Hist sap.
I think in a game that's highly moddable to the point that people can customize their experience to a very high degree, and with lore that often contradicts itself, I think it's perfectly fine for people to have different opinions on what version of the lore they like better. Personally, I don't feel strongly either way - I like seeing argonians who don't have breasts because it's an interesting body variation that makes them look unique, but I also like seeing argonians with breasts because of the lore. It's everyone's personal choice. Personally, if I could have my way, I would make both female Argonians and Khajiits flat-chested unless they're in late-term pregnancy or nursing a child. For most mammals, their mammaries only swell when they need that milk - humans having big boobs all the time is something I think we share with only two other species. Ever seen a nursing cat? It's a pretty mind-boggling sight. And with Argonians, I think it makes sense that their breasts would only develop when they need the Hist sap to feed to their young. A slight bit of boob would be okay, since many primates also have much smaller breasts when they're not nursing, I believe. Also, as for the "Are argonians lizards" argument - that's something that points to the issues of taxonomy based on physical traits and not genetic ancestry. Technically, Argonians would be whatever they're descended from, just as humans are primates because they're descended from a common ancestor, even though we have many traits that set us apart from most other primates - the ability to move our wrists from side to side, the much lower amount of body hair.
Female Argonians are also portrayed to have breasts, according to some sources, this is possibly an additional,[13] or the only,[14] way for an Argonian young to get Hist sap.
All female argonians are affected (player and NPCs). Even using this with CBBE female clothing/bodies and this mod (meshes) allow for flat chested female argonians (SSE).
This mod work with skyrim special edition and Feminine Chameleon Dragonic Argonian Texture (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/27440?tab=description)?
Hi, thanks for the link. I can confirm that this mod works in SSE (I don't own the Anniversary Edition). I did run the file through Cathedral Assets Optimizer and open/save the ESP in the Creation Kit. The texture mod you listed is kind of cool, now that the female argonians are flat chested it is an easy way to distinguish the sexes.
While it's completely fine to have a preference against lizard boobs, at least don't say that it's unlorefriendly that Argonians have more or less the exact same body-shape as humans and elfs with the exception of tails.
Also, this means that Morrowind is literally the only game in the franchise that doesn't feature straight legs and boobs for the beast races. Stop fanboying.
I wouldn't call it a mistake. He has a good point. Also, Argonians aren't from Earth, or reality, nor are they even reptiles. They break many natural rules for reptiles, even if you were to take the "magic" bits out (if you could). Breasts on them makes perfect sense! Gotta get outside your comfort zone and embrace the "fantasy" aspect of a game as well as the creator's imaginative rendition of it. It makes it more enjoyable. People complaining about beast-race boobs since Oblivion. It makes me laugh. Keep comparing them to a cat or a lizard. Why stop at the breasts? Put em back on all fours, shrink em, take away their ability to speak and be self-aware, etc! Why even play the game? The Norse didn't wear helmets with horns on them in real life, so we should take the horns off the Nord's armor too! Right? Derp.
Holy s#*!, why are you being so negative? Don't come on someone else's hard work and end your mocking sentence with "derp" and act like you're in the right. You guys are being assholes. "keep comparing them to-" as if you're telling us to keep doing something we're wrong about? what's the point of coming here to be so rude? They ARE cats and lizards, they've SAID SO themselves. Not only do they call themselves lizards, reptiles, and cats, but in ESO some khajiit talk to tigers and understand what they say back while calling them cousins. Evolving to the point of walking on hind legs to get more done makes sense: Boobs on a lizard literally doesn't make sense nor do only two nipples on a cat, AND, the game makers have straight up said that they didn't want them to look this way but that they threw out the varied skeletons they were working on for different races and pasted all the heads on the same bodies to save time, to crunch the game leading up to release instead of pushing their release date back. We're fixing something THEY ADMIT is an unwanted error, it's not "the creator's imaginative rendition".
"the Norse didn't wear horns etc so we should take that off too! right? Derp" f*#@ off, seriously, why are you even here just to be an asshat to those of us rightfully annoyed when our body replacers but the exact same bouncing titties on literally every female skeleton purely because of the amount of work they didn't have time to do before releasing the game. f*#@ that. YOU "get out of your comfort zone"... your weirdass comfort zone where every single thing with a vagina has to have big obnoxious tits.
When the makers of the game MEANT for each race to have separate looks including no tits on beast races but they didn't have time and regretted that, it is, in FACT, NOT lore-friendly for the beast-races to have tits. And why haven't they changed it back, you ask? Because tiddies. Once it ended up that way they'd have had to go through 1: going back to signing up for different meshes for clothes by race, which is a lot more work, and 2: a whole new hell of people(like you guys) getting mad when they changed it BACK. Instead they're doing what B usually does with us and just leaves the hard work to the modders so they don't have to pick a side... but that doesn't matter, because the side was set back when they flipped their s#*! upset that they didn't have time to "make the beast races correctly without certain ill-fitting prominent mammalian traits". Beast races SHOULD NOT have tits and them having them is just another way Bethesda dropped the ball. They've admitted it. It's nothing to do with fanboys or fangirls.
If I'm a lizard I should finally get to be free of men looking at my tits all the goddamn time like i'm a tit shelf instead of a person. It utterly ruins my immersion for breast-flesh and nipples to show up on lizards when i loot their armor. Someone also pointed out that the Argonians have gills-but name me one animal with gills with nipples. Seriously. I will wait. Oh, right-there aren't any. How about a mammal with full body skin-free scales? Argonians ARE still reptiles. The magic part is being able to adjust their temperature internally. Magic should be productive. There's nothing design-intelligent about tits in comparison to the way reptiles reproduce: coming out of a shell(much more self-sufficient than a weakling mammal needing to nurse) would be a genetic strength. The hist observed those intelligent enough to walk, interact, retain info/sentience, and decided to imitate it: it didn't imitate all the internals, it just pushed evolution to sentience. Tits on beasts in elder scrolls games are an unwanted extra related to laziness and overly-restrictive time-constraint requirements for game release dates. Fixing that is CORRECT.
This comment strikes to the core of this issue. It cuts out all the fat and lays bare what is really going on here. Sex-obsessed perverts want to sexualize something and bully everyone else into their way of thinking without knowing a damn thing about the lore and the development. Thank you for this post GermRillian.
Hello! I'm not sure if the mod author is still active but if you like I could send you some mesh files for that. I assume you're using the vanilla body?
243 comments
If there are armors still invisible, please tell me which ones in the comments.
NOTE: For some reason I can't get Ulfric's clothes and similar looking Jarl's clothes to work. For some reason the mesh, even when extracted from the Skyrim .bsa throws up errors in the CK. If anyone has any idea why or can give me a working mesh, I'd appreciate it.
ClothesJarl02 "Fur-Trimmed Cloak" [ARMO:0008698C]
ClothesUlfric "Ulfric's Clothes" [ARMO:00062303]
show as ITM's in Tes5Edit?
and is it OK to remove them?
1. This is when I attempted to convert the mod to SE
2. I may not have converted the mod correctly, since it was my first time
3. I have another mod, Practical Female Armors SE, that also affects the breast area. I highly recommend it. It adds a lot of realism. Anyway, this might be what's breaking things, but somehow I doubt it since most of the armors altered by that mod work just fine
Here's what was broken:
Falmer Armor
Falmer Hardened Armor (ankles invisible but otherwise fine)
Falmer Heavy Armor (same issue as above)
Fine Clothes (blue with fur cloak only)
Fur armor (the two that appear in the inventory as skirt only)
Hooded Black Robes (black mage robes are fine)
Hooded Necromancer Robes
Ragged Trousers
Roughspun Tunic
Studded Imperial Armor
Tavern Clothes
All the others, including all versions of Dunmer clothes and ones that aren't in normal vanilla such as hooded red robes, are just fine! As you can see, it's relatively few that were broken.
I've decided to put this on the OP's comment stack instead of mine. Thank you so much for this mod. I love my female Argonian, even though her body occasionally disappears!
That being said, in Morrowind female argonians clearly have no breasts. The depiction as breasted in Oblivion was likely due to the same technical limitations that caused them to lose their unique skeletal posture rather than being any kind of "immersive or lore accurate" reason. Not having to either create unique flat-chested variants of all the armor or refit the male armor to the female bodies just for the sake of one race was probably a big time-saver for the development team so I don't begrudge them making that change, but I see no reason to view it as accurate to the reality of characters in-universe in the same way that the cities as presented in-game aren't accurate in-universe.
Feathers are present in lots of dinosaur species.
In some fossils (especially from china, where they ar preserved in much finer sediments) you can even see rests of pigments and (by comparing with recent feathered species) guess their colours.
Morrowind was literally the only Elder Scrolls game where female Argonians were flat chested. Every other game in the series before and after it had them with breasts. It wasn't them being lazy, it was them returning to form, since Morrowind's Argonians and Khajiit were radically different from what came before.
Personally, if I could have my way, I would make both female Argonians and Khajiits flat-chested unless they're in late-term pregnancy or nursing a child. For most mammals, their mammaries only swell when they need that milk - humans having big boobs all the time is something I think we share with only two other species. Ever seen a nursing cat? It's a pretty mind-boggling sight. And with Argonians, I think it makes sense that their breasts would only develop when they need the Hist sap to feed to their young. A slight bit of boob would be okay, since many primates also have much smaller breasts when they're not nursing, I believe.
Also, as for the "Are argonians lizards" argument - that's something that points to the issues of taxonomy based on physical traits and not genetic ancestry. Technically, Argonians would be whatever they're descended from, just as humans are primates because they're descended from a common ancestor, even though we have many traits that set us apart from most other primates - the ability to move our wrists from side to side, the much lower amount of body hair.
http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/redwoodtreesprite/media/bWVkaWFJZDoxMDY0Mzc1Nzc=/?ref=
Also, this means that Morrowind is literally the only game in the franchise that doesn't feature straight legs and boobs for the beast races. Stop fanboying.
"the Norse didn't wear horns etc so we should take that off too! right? Derp" f*#@ off, seriously, why are you even here just to be an asshat to those of us rightfully annoyed when our body replacers but the exact same bouncing titties on literally every female skeleton purely because of the amount of work they didn't have time to do before releasing the game. f*#@ that. YOU "get out of your comfort zone"... your weirdass comfort zone where every single thing with a vagina has to have big obnoxious tits.
When the makers of the game MEANT for each race to have separate looks including no tits on beast races but they didn't have time and regretted that, it is, in FACT, NOT lore-friendly for the beast-races to have tits. And why haven't they changed it back, you ask? Because tiddies. Once it ended up that way they'd have had to go through 1: going back to signing up for different meshes for clothes by race, which is a lot more work, and 2: a whole new hell of people(like you guys) getting mad when they changed it BACK. Instead they're doing what B usually does with us and just leaves the hard work to the modders so they don't have to pick a side... but that doesn't matter, because the side was set back when they flipped their s#*! upset that they didn't have time to "make the beast races correctly without certain ill-fitting prominent mammalian traits". Beast races SHOULD NOT have tits and them having them is just another way Bethesda dropped the ball. They've admitted it. It's nothing to do with fanboys or fangirls.
If I'm a lizard I should finally get to be free of men looking at my tits all the goddamn time like i'm a tit shelf instead of a person. It utterly ruins my immersion for breast-flesh and nipples to show up on lizards when i loot their armor. Someone also pointed out that the Argonians have gills-but name me one animal with gills with nipples. Seriously. I will wait. Oh, right-there aren't any. How about a mammal with full body skin-free scales? Argonians ARE still reptiles. The magic part is being able to adjust their temperature internally. Magic should be productive. There's nothing design-intelligent about tits in comparison to the way reptiles reproduce: coming out of a shell(much more self-sufficient than a weakling mammal needing to nurse) would be a genetic strength. The hist observed those intelligent enough to walk, interact, retain info/sentience, and decided to imitate it: it didn't imitate all the internals, it just pushed evolution to sentience. Tits on beasts in elder scrolls games are an unwanted extra related to laziness and overly-restrictive time-constraint requirements for game release dates. Fixing that is CORRECT.
Sex-obsessed perverts want to sexualize something and bully everyone
else into their way of thinking without knowing a damn thing about the
lore and the development. Thank you for this post GermRillian.
otherwise how can you tell if that's a lizard person you're horny for or not