Tutorial... 1. Download and install NifSkope from http://niftools.sourceforge.net/wiki/NifSkope 2. Load one of the skeletons into NifSkope. 3. Zoom in around the waist and click one of the nodes(bone) that is attached to the pelvis bone but has no others connected to it. On the left hand window it will expand a tree and highlight what you selected. Hopefully you selected a weapon bone. 4. Once you have a weapon bone selected right click the highlighted text in the left hand window and select Transform then Edit. A new window will pop up. 5. On the bottom of the new window there is Scale with some numbers below it. 6. Edit those numbers. 1 is the default value Bethesda had set. 0 makes the weapon disappear and does some crazy stuff with the animation. So try a number like 0.8500 or 0.9000. 7. Hit accept when you have the scale set to what you want. 8. In the left window again select one of the other 4 weapon bones and repeat the scaling for them. You can use the same scale or completely different. 9. Back to the render window find a similar set of weapon bones for the weapons equiped on the back. and in the left window repeat the same process as you did for the hip attached weapons. 10. Once all you want to rescale is done click file and save as. Save it the same name as it was. 11. enter the game and equip something in each slot to see how it looks, if its too small or too big change it again. 12. When you are satisfied with how they look change each of the 3 remaining skeletons weapon bones to match the one you did.
The weapon bones to rescale are named and the scales I used: 1. WeaponAxe 0.8000 2. WeaponBack 0.8000 3. WeaponBow 0.8000 4. WeaponDagger 0.8000 5. WeaponMace 0.8000 6. WeaponSword 0.9500 7. QUIVER 0.8000
Daggers could be increased in size maybe, but then again some of those daggers are as a big as a sword lol. Don't modify anything else than those bones I listed unless you already know what you are doing.
For the bones that the weapons connect to the hands are: 1. AnimObjectL 2. AnimObjectR 3. SHIELD
Magic is: 1. NPC L MagicNode [LMag] 2. NPC R MagicNode [RMag]
I believe you can rescale those as well but I don't see a point really I think they look fine when being held. and magic is probably scaled via the spell or spell effect anyway.
Test a variety of weapons in each slot, some are bigger than others like Ebony weapons tend to be huge. The weapons themselves have the same bone in its .nif so if you want to go nuts you can download BSA Opt and unpack the .bsa files and modify all the weapons so some of the huge ones will be more realisticly scaled in theory.
Only if you scale to an extremely small or large number. Default is 1.0 and it enlarges the weapons so making it 2 will about double them and the animations will go nuts trying to acomadate. on the other hand making the bones .5 or half the size of the original animations will start looking like crap trying to acomadate the new size. The bone scale doesnt have any affect on animations it is the attached weapon that does and if it is too small or too big the animations wont be made to deal with that.
I think .75 was when i started noticing animations were looking weird when I was grabbing arrows from the quiver, but .75 was too small as the arrows in the quiver were much shorter than when being used when firing.
If you notice when unsheathing a greatsword or axe from the back with vanilla the animation isnt correct to the weapon already. When you grab it the weapon shrinks and moves to the hand position so even Vanilla has the same animation problem already and my scaling actualy improves upon that.
do you know which setting influences the size of the weapons in the hands? maybe it would be good to look these up and carry the sizes over to the sheathed node on the skeleton. the scale on the weapon node on the forearm that you posted are all set to 1, but there must be some other setting, that changes the size between hand and back.
You would just need to do fine tuning of the weapon nodes to get no scaling at all. that would be trying different settings over and over until you find the exact setting. I just went with what I thought looked good when sheathed and the scaling when sheathing or unsheathing wasn't much of a concern to me. The scale change is hardly noticeable to me now that the weapons are scaled better but if it is noticeable to you, you can try different settings until you get the magic number.
It's not working for the female skeleton, It's really getting on my neerves!! I tried high values but I saw no changes in the sizes.... It works for the male skeletons though, this game is effin sexist
I find this very interesting but after doing dainty tests with screenshots I couldn't notice any shrinking/size changing process. Take a look at those screenshots.
Sheathed:
Unsheathed:
Sheathed:
Unsheathed:
And this is how your mod is actually looking. Sheathed:
Unsheathed:
I'm a little bit curious now how you can't notice the difference since the difference is considerable and much stronger than without your mod.
And btw: "For the bones that the weapons connect to the hands are: 1. AnimObjectL 2. AnimObjectR"
No. It's the parent node "WEAPON" for the right hand respectively "SHIELD" for the left hand. "AnimObjectR" will only affect objects being used on grindstones etc but not objects like weapons.
It is true that some weapons look ridiculously big when they are sheathed but that's only because they are in general ridiculously big. Even when they are drawn and being held in hand they are so big.
Are you using a smaller scale or custom race? Looking at the before pictures for the iron arrows and ebony bow specifically, they look a lot larger than my game, or even vanilla Skyrim. Can't say for 2 handed weapons as I never use anything but spears or lances...
sorry if i wasn't clear. i was curious, what setting controls the scaling for the weapons in your hands? is it in the mesh? is it somewhere in the CK? i know you pointed out the nodes on the mesh, but oddly enough, the scale there is set to 1. so now we have 0.8 on the back and 1 in hand, yet this leads to a reduced scaling between the two as opposed to 1/1. clearly there must be some other setting hidden somewhere, and i wonder which.
The scaling between the hand nodes and the sheathed nodes are not the same. The sheath nodes such as WeaponBack are larger than the hand nodes. So they may have been 1 and 1 they were not the same size, 1 is just the number they get for default when imported from 3DS Max. with a vanilla skeleton when you take a weapon off your back the weapon shrinks to fit. By my reducing the size of the sheathed nodes it makes it closer to the same scale between the two. Thus fine tuning the nodes I changed until there is no scale difference would fix any issues with the weapons scaling when you draw them to kill the umpteenth bandit.
There really is nothing that says change the scale, it is just 2 nodes that are not the same scale and the weapons scaling to that node when attaching to it. The weapon nif has a node as well that scales to what is in the skeleton. when it scales everything in the nif scales as well.
If you want to scale both hands and sheathed to a dropped weapon you can place a weapon in the world in the CK and have it floating in the air and stand your character next to it with the same weapon equipped for comparison and then scale the nodes until you get no scaling at all so a dropped weapon is the same as in the hands or sheathed. That would be the one way to get rid of scaling differences. Or you can open each weapons nif and scale the node that is in it that corresponds to the skeletons nodes until there is no scaling at all when playing.
would a body mod such as CBBE or UNP change Skyrims original skeletons or are they only texture mods? i looked through the descriptions and some of the posts and didn't find any information directly related to the subject. Although UNP did say it was incompatible with a specific skeleton mod.
Bethesda probably looked at what other games have been doing like MMO's all copying WoW's choice to make weapons huge and ofcourse in anime it's common. Makes the weapons look like crap as far as i am concerned.
Tutorial... 1. Download and install NifSkope from http://niftools.sourceforge.net/wiki/NifSkope 2. Load one of the skeletons into NifSkope. 3. Zoom in around the waist and click one of the nodes(bone) that is attached to the pelvis bone but has no others connected to it. On the left hand window it will expand a tree and highlight what you selected. Hopefully you selected a weapon bone. 4. Once you have a weapon bone selected right click the highlighted text in the left hand window and select Transform then Edit. A new window will pop up. 5. On the bottom of the new window there is Scale with some numbers below it. 6. Edit those numbers. 1 is the default value Bethesda had set. 0 makes the weapon disappear and does some crazy stuff with the animation. So try a number like 0.8500 or 0.9000. 7. Hit accept when you have the scale set to what you want. 8. In the left window again select one of the other 4 weapon bones and repeat the scaling for them. You can use the same scale or completely different. 9. Back to the render window find a similar set of weapon bones for the weapons equiped on the back. and in the left window repeat the same process as you did for the hip attached weapons. 10. Once all you want to rescale is done click file and save as. Save it the same name as it was. 11. enter the game and equip something in each slot to see how it looks, if its too small or too big change it again. 12. When you are satisfied with how they look change each of the 3 remaining skeletons weapon bones to match the one you did.
The weapon bones to rescale are named and the scales I used: 1. WeaponAxe 0.8000 2. WeaponBack 0.8000 3. WeaponBow 0.8000 4. WeaponDagger 0.8000 5. WeaponMace 0.8000 6. WeaponSword 0.9500 7. QUIVER 0.8000
Daggers could be increased in size maybe, but then again some of those daggers are as a big as a sword lol. Don't modify anything else than those bones I listed unless you already know what you are doing.
For the bones that the weapons connect to the hands are: 1. AnimObjectL 2. AnimObjectR 3. SHIELD
Magic is: 1. NPC L MagicNode [LMag] 2. NPC R MagicNode [RMag]
I believe you can rescale those as well but I don't see a point really I think they look fine when being held. and magic is probably scaled via the spell or spell effect anyway.
Test a variety of weapons in each slot, some are bigger than others like Ebony weapons tend to be huge. The weapons themselves have the same bone in its .nif so if you want to go nuts you can download BSA Opt and unpack the .bsa files and modify all the weapons so some of the huge ones will be more realisticly scaled in theory.
OK, I apologise for my earlier post, I hadnt tested it properly.
jet4571 is right - you DO have to unequip any exposed weapons (so its just you standing there, no weapons visible), THEN install this mod. Then when you re-equip, it appears smaller on your back. (might wanna add that to the description page)
It makes ridiculously oversized bows/battleaxes etc smaller when you put them on your back, but they revert to full size when you grab them!
I love this! Endorsed.
One problem though - it seems to be incompatible with Belt Fastened Quivers.
Quivers wont mount low on your hip any more. They appear vertical, like vanilla position, in line with bow.
That mod uses it's own modified skeleton doesnt it? The QUIVER bone is moved to the hip? They do not use the skeleton that came with the game otherwise it would work fine. Try the tutorial I wrote for insaneplumber below on the skeleton that came with that mod or ask that mods author to make a smaller equipped weapon version.
Those oversized weapons that become smaller probably have a smaller bone in the weapons nif so they wouldnt become even larger when sheathed. So when using my version it actualy shrinks it noticeably rather than remaining the same size. Other normal sized weapons used to shrink when you use them and grow when sheathing.
Skyrim is an unstable game even without mods ... Are you saying you're Skyrim has never crashed when loading a save before? If so then just wow. But honestly before making a negative comment try to replicate the game crashing otherwise you can't definitively say it was the mods fault.
If you have a mod bow or quiver try unequiping then save and install the mod. I used Bethesda's skeleton and didnt change anything but the weapon placement bone scale so the only thing that can be causing a CTD would be a high poly mod weapon one scale in the save but the skeleton upon loading says differently.
Is there any way you could post a tutorial so we can apply these changes to custom skeletons? I've had this problem for a long long time but don't want to give up my tried and true skeleton to use it.
Racemenu only applies to the player. This applies to everyone. If you do not like giant anime weapons on yourself you wouldnt want them on everyone else. I play in first person view and do not like seeing a 6 foot greatsword on someones back that magickly shrinks to 4 feet when he is holding it. I think it looks retarded regardless if it is my character or a random bandit. Thus scale the bone and no more giant size weapons equipped.
@cpanda, I assume you are familiar with nifskope. To make the changes on any skeleton is pretty simple. Find the bone the weapon goes with such as "WeaponMace" in the "NPC COM" inside "NPC Root" buried inside the "NPC" node. (Weapons on the back are in "NPC Spine2") right click it and select transform then edit. In the new window there is translation for the bones position, rotation to ofcourse rotate it, and scale. just change the scale numbers. 1 is the original value and 0 just makes a weapon disapear. Once you changed the value hit accept.
32 comments
1. Download and install NifSkope from http://niftools.sourceforge.net/wiki/NifSkope
2. Load one of the skeletons into NifSkope.
3. Zoom in around the waist and click one of the nodes(bone) that is attached to the pelvis bone but has no others connected to it. On the left hand window it will expand a tree and highlight what you selected. Hopefully you selected a weapon bone.
4. Once you have a weapon bone selected right click the highlighted text in the left hand window and select Transform then Edit. A new window will pop up.
5. On the bottom of the new window there is Scale with some numbers below it.
6. Edit those numbers. 1 is the default value Bethesda had set. 0 makes the weapon disappear and does some crazy stuff with the animation. So try a number like 0.8500 or 0.9000.
7. Hit accept when you have the scale set to what you want.
8. In the left window again select one of the other 4 weapon bones and repeat the scaling for them. You can use the same scale or completely different.
9. Back to the render window find a similar set of weapon bones for the weapons equiped on the back. and in the left window repeat the same process as you did for the hip attached weapons.
10. Once all you want to rescale is done click file and save as. Save it the same name as it was.
11. enter the game and equip something in each slot to see how it looks, if its too small or too big change it again.
12. When you are satisfied with how they look change each of the 3 remaining skeletons weapon bones to match the one you did.
The weapon bones to rescale are named and the scales I used:
1. WeaponAxe 0.8000
2. WeaponBack 0.8000
3. WeaponBow 0.8000
4. WeaponDagger 0.8000
5. WeaponMace 0.8000
6. WeaponSword 0.9500
7. QUIVER 0.8000
Daggers could be increased in size maybe, but then again some of those daggers are as a big as a sword lol. Don't modify anything else than those bones I listed unless you already know what you are doing.
For the bones that the weapons connect to the hands are:
1. AnimObjectL
2. AnimObjectR
3. SHIELD
Magic is:
1. NPC L MagicNode [LMag]
2. NPC R MagicNode [RMag]
I believe you can rescale those as well but I don't see a point really I think they look fine when being held. and magic is probably scaled via the spell or spell effect anyway.
Test a variety of weapons in each slot, some are bigger than others like Ebony weapons tend to be huge. The weapons themselves have the same bone in its .nif so if you want to go nuts you can download BSA Opt and unpack the .bsa files and modify all the weapons so some of the huge ones will be more realisticly scaled in theory.
I think .75 was when i started noticing animations were looking weird when I was grabbing arrows from the quiver, but .75 was too small as the arrows in the quiver were much shorter than when being used when firing.
If you notice when unsheathing a greatsword or axe from the back with vanilla the animation isnt correct to the weapon already. When you grab it the weapon shrinks and moves to the hand position so even Vanilla has the same animation problem already and my scaling actualy improves upon that.
Sheathed:
Unsheathed:
Sheathed:
Unsheathed:
And this is how your mod is actually looking.
Sheathed:
Unsheathed:
I'm a little bit curious now how you can't notice the difference since the difference is considerable and much stronger than without your mod.
And btw:
"For the bones that the weapons connect to the hands are:
1. AnimObjectL
2. AnimObjectR"
No. It's the parent node "WEAPON" for the right hand respectively "SHIELD" for the left hand. "AnimObjectR" will only affect objects being used on grindstones etc but not objects like weapons.
It is true that some weapons look ridiculously big when they are sheathed but that's only because they are in general ridiculously big. Even when they are drawn and being held in hand they are so big.
i know you pointed out the nodes on the mesh, but oddly enough, the scale there is set to 1. so now we have 0.8 on the back and 1 in hand, yet this leads to a reduced scaling between the two as opposed to 1/1. clearly there must be some other setting hidden somewhere, and i wonder which.
There really is nothing that says change the scale, it is just 2 nodes that are not the same scale and the weapons scaling to that node when attaching to it. The weapon nif has a node as well that scales to what is in the skeleton. when it scales everything in the nif scales as well.
If you want to scale both hands and sheathed to a dropped weapon you can place a weapon in the world in the CK and have it floating in the air and stand your character next to it with the same weapon equipped for comparison and then scale the nodes until you get no scaling at all so a dropped weapon is the same as in the hands or sheathed. That would be the one way to get rid of scaling differences. Or you can open each weapons nif and scale the node that is in it that corresponds to the skeletons nodes until there is no scaling at all when playing.
I'm not using your mod because I use a custom skeleton, but I'm downloading and endorsing because of your tutorial.
By the way, I wonder from where Bethesda takes such ridiculous ideas ...
It would be nice if you could do a tutorial.
TRACK ENDORSE
Tutorial...
1. Download and install NifSkope from http://niftools.sourceforge.net/wiki/NifSkope
2. Load one of the skeletons into NifSkope.
3. Zoom in around the waist and click one of the nodes(bone) that is attached to the pelvis bone but has no others connected to it. On the left hand window it will expand a tree and highlight what you selected. Hopefully you selected a weapon bone.
4. Once you have a weapon bone selected right click the highlighted text in the left hand window and select Transform then Edit. A new window will pop up.
5. On the bottom of the new window there is Scale with some numbers below it.
6. Edit those numbers. 1 is the default value Bethesda had set. 0 makes the weapon disappear and does some crazy stuff with the animation. So try a number like 0.8500 or 0.9000.
7. Hit accept when you have the scale set to what you want.
8. In the left window again select one of the other 4 weapon bones and repeat the scaling for them. You can use the same scale or completely different.
9. Back to the render window find a similar set of weapon bones for the weapons equiped on the back. and in the left window repeat the same process as you did for the hip attached weapons.
10. Once all you want to rescale is done click file and save as. Save it the same name as it was.
11. enter the game and equip something in each slot to see how it looks, if its too small or too big change it again.
12. When you are satisfied with how they look change each of the 3 remaining skeletons weapon bones to match the one you did.
The weapon bones to rescale are named and the scales I used:
1. WeaponAxe 0.8000
2. WeaponBack 0.8000
3. WeaponBow 0.8000
4. WeaponDagger 0.8000
5. WeaponMace 0.8000
6. WeaponSword 0.9500
7. QUIVER 0.8000
Daggers could be increased in size maybe, but then again some of those daggers are as a big as a sword lol. Don't modify anything else than those bones I listed unless you already know what you are doing.
For the bones that the weapons connect to the hands are:
1. AnimObjectL
2. AnimObjectR
3. SHIELD
Magic is:
1. NPC L MagicNode [LMag]
2. NPC R MagicNode [RMag]
I believe you can rescale those as well but I don't see a point really I think they look fine when being held. and magic is probably scaled via the spell or spell effect anyway.
Test a variety of weapons in each slot, some are bigger than others like Ebony weapons tend to be huge. The weapons themselves have the same bone in its .nif so if you want to go nuts you can download BSA Opt and unpack the .bsa files and modify all the weapons so some of the huge ones will be more realisticly scaled in theory.
KUDOS
Of course you have been listed as its creator.
Thank you.
jet4571 is right - you DO have to unequip any exposed weapons (so its just you standing there, no weapons visible), THEN install this mod.
Then when you re-equip, it appears smaller on your back. (might wanna add that to the description page)
It makes ridiculously oversized bows/battleaxes etc smaller when you put them on your back, but they revert to full size when you grab them!
I love this! Endorsed.
One problem though - it seems to be incompatible with Belt Fastened Quivers.
Quivers wont mount low on your hip any more. They appear vertical, like vanilla position, in line with bow.
Do you know how these two can be made compatible?
Those oversized weapons that become smaller probably have a smaller bone in the weapons nif so they wouldnt become even larger when sheathed. So when using my version it actualy shrinks it noticeably rather than remaining the same size. Other normal sized weapons used to shrink when you use them and grow when sheathing.
Derp- I Installed it wrong, sorry.
Works well!
It isnt dirty edits thats causing the problem.
@cpanda, I assume you are familiar with nifskope. To make the changes on any skeleton is pretty simple. Find the bone the weapon goes with such as "WeaponMace" in the "NPC COM" inside "NPC Root" buried inside the "NPC" node. (Weapons on the back are in "NPC Spine2") right click it and select transform then edit. In the new window there is translation for the bones position, rotation to ofcourse rotate it, and scale. just change the scale numbers. 1 is the original value and 0 just makes a weapon disapear. Once you changed the value hit accept.