The scripts of the newest version are not attached to the player reference properly for use. I fixed version 1.6 myself and uploaded it to Nexus for SSE. https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/69730/ If you can backport the esp to Oldrim, it should work fine as well. Since the author has been inactive for years, I uploaded without permission. If the author Junwei requests, I will take it down.
I hope this is compatible with Requiem, but from what I've read it uses scripts to change the shouts so it should be compatible with just about everything. I had a hard time finding this particular mod, but I'm glad I did.
Yeah, it should work with every mod out there, though I've also changed cooldowns to make it easier to balance, so you could choose to load this mod after requiem to use the stamina and magicka usage as I had intended it to be. Yeah it's hard to find this mod since it doesn't get endorsed much nor does it get downloaded often because it covers a particular part of the game. Endorse my mod if you think it's good.
The mod doesn't seem to be working. I've just gotten the first word of Unrelenting Force, and the shout is working normally, as in it has the built-in cooldown and drains no stamina or magicka, is this intentional? I'd appreciate some help with this.
Was just thinking about this over the past day or so, in the form of "wouldn't it be neat if there were a mod that did this..."
And here it is.
A few proposals/requests for extension/alternatives come to mind, though, and hence a few thoughts for possible MCM configurability: - Sliders for stamina cost and magicka cost, as a percentage of shout cooldown. - Toggles for what happens when you try to shout and don't have enough magicka/stamina: - "use health instead" was an idea I discounted myself, but if optional, it'd be fine; - "revert to normal shout cooldown" would be another; - can't think of any other serious options at the moment, unless "coughing" counts
It took me quite a while to add that debuff with a variable duration. I needed SKSE functions to have this though, so now this mod requires SKSE. I haven't tested a lot on it so I don't know if the duration is really as much as I think it is.
I'm debating on whether or not I keep the magicka cost not to be affected by any shout cost reductions like talos' blessings or the speech skill. It'll make it harder for the players to find out how much they use without checking my excelsheet, but you won't be able to spam your shouts just by "leveling" stamina.
Also I think I should move this to game effects and changes and immersion so I'm doing that.
Using the one second cooldown works, good way to keep it compatible too in all likelihood. I'm interested to know if this mod would be incompatible with dragon shouts improved - quite the shame if it were.
At first I balanced it with that mod in mind, but then I had to change it because not everyone uses it and the cooldown that mod gives are far lower than vanilla in most cases. The compatibility should still be there, I've only changed the cooldown of the vanilla shouts(don't have dawnguard and dragonborn) and it still uses scripts to convert the cooldown to stamina/magicka cost. So if you use this mod I highly suggest to put this after dragon shouts improved as the damage and effects were left untouched. (BOSS should do this automatically I think)
I haven't balanced the stamina and magicka cost, but you can see in the shout menu how much stamina the shouts uses. What I also changed is that you can only use call dragon and storm call once an ingame day. Wouldn't it feel like slavery if you could call Ohdaviing whenever you want? And I highly doubt it's realistic that you could call up a storm 24/7, not that calling up a storm with your voice is realistic in the first place, but you know it's for the sake of balance.
You can see the changelogs for the changes I made, I also have the excelsheet uploaded in case you just want to see numbers.
The only one thing I still have to do is think up a way to have stamina go in the negatives so it doesn't stop at 0 and then recover right away, despite having used 60 more stamina than you actually have.
Possible workaround: if a shout takes more stamina than you have or forces it to zero - apply a stamina regen debuff. The idea being you overstepped your limits "had the wind knocked out of you" and you need a few seconds before you start recovering.
Also, no dragonborn huh? I wish it were a possibility but if you haven't bought it yet I doubt you want it. If this is a simple matter I can probably make a dlc patch myself. Though with that offer comes the disclaimer that I have no idea what I'm doing.
The only thing that needs to be edited are the cooldown of the shouts so it's somewhat more balanced. Shouts from the dlcs will still work without the changes, although some could become unbalanced I'll eventually get the dlcs at some point, but we'll see. Adding a debuff is an idea I guess, though it won't stop people from shouting unless I force the cooldown to 1 as long as the debuff is there. Hm, I think that would actually work.
I haven't made use of the mod yet, but I can get back to you in a few days or so regarding the balance. I would say stamina usage primarily with a lesser magicka use should be the goal though. What I don't yet understand about your mod is that it seems you've kept the cooldown system and added stam/mag costs. If you're up to it, help clarify what you did with cooldowns, or I'll just try it out in a few days when I get back. I was for the removal of cooldowns, having them replaced by higher costs, but you may have a different philosophy.
A lot of mods tie speechcraft to shouting, and I'm personally for it. Lore friendliness is a fickle subject, but I would not tie magic trees to shouting. They are very much distinct from what I understand, as shouting is a measure of innate ability and personal strength coming from a dragonborn. Powerful tongues aren't mentioned as being mages of any stripe, so I would assume the fields of shouting and magic are very much distinct. The idea of becoming more fluent in the voice to reduce effort (costs) and improve persuasion (shout magnitude) though - makes sense to me.
Fair enough on the magic tree part and speechcraft does make sense, since they did say shouting at dragons is like debate and speechcraft would increase persuasion and intimidation. What I actually do with the mod is calculate the stamina and magicka cost based on the cooldown the player has when it's calculating (not most accurate way of doing things, but whatever) and then reduced the remaining cooldown to 1 second since you can't really shout right away because of how shouting works. There will be some cooldown when you happen to use more stamina than you actually have, but I'm going to change that part as well because I should take my time to perfect the mod rather than take the easy way out. I guess I'll stop focusing on compatibility and just change the whole shout system with what I have.
I'm looking into changing how my script is activated because it could lag a bit for some reason like it could activate seconds after shouting even though I use the OnSpellCast event.
I'll be checking if I could make this less dependent on scripts and have the shouts use...let's say, half of the stamina cost? A full Unrelenting force should have a base stamina cost of between 100 and 150 in my opinion. If it works, I'll tie in speechcraft in this and have it reduce at most 50% of the cost.
Since I have all day, I could probably change the whole thing and update this today. Hopefully I'll be done with everything then.
Hey, I just found this after making a mod request for something similar. A fellow bellow mentioned lore friendliness - maybe my mod request will help with that by way of my own explanation:
I've always thought shout cooldowns were a bit arbitrary. Why would your ability to speak/shout fire be limited by a 30 second cooldowns...if other than to catch your breath? You can have a similar magical attack using the magicka resource, so it seems to me that shouts should use similar mechanics. Being out of breath is literally the indication of running out of stamina, and Paarthurnax mentions shouting in the context of "Su'um ahrk morah." breath and focus. Following that logic, magicka could be considered a measure of focus. In practice, shouting could use stamina for lesser shouts, and for those shouts where you do something rather spectacular (storm call?) you might add in a magicka cost. The idea here being that you could shout off a few fire breaths for say ~100 stamina each, or 300 stamina for a full shout. However, if you wanted to do something like...become ethereal, which would not be a good ability to have spammable, you could have the cost be *all* stamina and magicka, or a very high cost for each. The amulet of talos would make a bit more sense to me as well - instead of an arbitrary 20% off of cooldowns because of...why...you could have a "blessing of talos" that reduces the effort required to channel the Thu'um by lowering costs. I'd love to hear from anyone who might expand the idea, and of course an actual mod would be the bees knees.
Hi there, It seems you and I share some similar ideas on shouting, though I made shout use both either way. What do you think about the stamina and magicka use the mod I already made right now. Is it overpowered, or too costly to be worth using in actual combat? So far a level 1 fire breath will use 87-ish stamina and magicka without any reduction. I still believe magicka is essential in any shout, as you actually form magic by shouting out words, but I could try changing a few things by having several shouts use only stamina.
With the blessings of talos, you mean changing the active effect so it would reduce the percentage of the cost directly instead? That does make more sense. I was also thinking about actually altering all shout cooldown so I don't have to use complicated looking math and I'll think about altering damage and duration to make the shouts closer to being an alternative to magic. I probably shouldn't do that though, but we'll see.
Oh and one thing to discuss about. I once temporarily added the possibility to reduce magicka and stamina cost through either speech level or from any of the magic school level. I'm not so sure if it's lore friendly at all so I removed it. It could make sense to reduce magicka cost from some of the magic school level; as you become better at controlling magicka, you could focus better and use less magicka for the same effect. Not so sure about speech level, other than being able to speak more convincing with less effort, in a debate that is, which is what shouting with a dragon would look like.
Who in lore died from shouting themselves to death EVER? Don't understand this statement.
I get the concept of trying to scale shouting down in usefulness but its a bit overdone.
You would never open a battle up with a shout since it would immediately drain your reserves. Shouting would only be useful when you're on your last legs and desperate or the shout would end the combat.
On top of that utility shouts like aura whisper and whirlwind sprint are rendered even less attractive.
Its a good idea. Don't think I'd use it. But it obviously needs a lot of balancing especially in the special cases like non combat shouts.
Actually I've been testing the mod myself and it's quite balanced as far as low cooldown shouts work, like aura whisper(no. 1 favourite shout to me, still at lvl 1 though.) or kind of broken like with Become Ethereal. (could spam this one forever to save my life in cidhna mines) You recover magicka and stamina even faster when out of combat stance, so I don't see the unattractiveness of using non-combat shouts. I've updated the mod to make it easier to use later in levels by having it scale with a few skills and I've removed the damaging health part for now just to see how that goes. makes calling the dragon not so punishing.
Still don't see how this is especially "lore friendly" though.
Nothing in lore suggests that shouts drain stamina and magicka.
This is purely a gameplay balancing mod. Although without the health drain it sounds much better. There are honestly very few effective shouts that could have been cast without severely harming yourself. Most third tier shouts sit around 40-50 second cooldowns. x 5 = 200-250 hit to magicka and stamina.
Warriors speccing in stamina and health lose their magicka but they don't care. But then take the rest of the hit to health... Mages in magicka lose stamina and can't run away but lose a good portion of their casting ability. lose -lose all around.
The cost/effect ratio was just too high for 3rd tier shouts(and may still be). I can see this effect being a good balance factor for cheesing ethereal though. It really is broken on the first tier! But you can't ignore the fact that storm call 3rd tier is unusable.
600 x 5 = 3000 stamina loss. A highly respectable stamina with enchantment boosts might hit 1000. Then you're still in the hole 2 grand and can't use shouts for the next 45 MINUTES! Even with your bonuses stacking up you're unlikely to get it below 20 minutes. No, thank you.
Needs fine tuning. Or logarithmic scaling which I would highly recommend to even out the curve and cause low tier cheesers to have bite but to not have 3rd tier arsenal become completely unusable.
The reason I've had the shout drain magicka is that according to the lore it's considered a form of magic, that's why I did that. Though not stated, I personally see the dragonborn shout those magic filled words with enormous force it would actually leave you breathing heavily for a period of time. (even though most of the used voices state otherwise)
I have to admit I'm guilty of making this mod before getting all the shouts, so I didn't even know storm call has a cooldown of 600 seconds. I'll be making a change to make the higher cooldown shouts be easy enough to use without any problems.
Thanks for these posts, it's insightful and made me realize how the mod is more flawed than I first thought. It's going to help me make this small mod work right.
My goal for tomorrow would be to adjust storm call so it would use roughly 400 stamina& magicka without reduction. If you have roughly 200 stamina, it'll mean you'll have 200/5=40 seconds cooldown at max.
EDIT: Done and I fixed something else as well since I realized I had Improved shouts on during my testing so I was using less stamina and magicka than in vanilla. I've changed that to fit it better with vanilla.
Lol I only saw a different post asking for it and I thought I should practice and make it. I have to update this though, because those shouts with higher cooldown will kill you with the health damage(ohdaviing anyone?) or leave you unable to do anything.
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Since the author has been inactive for years, I uploaded without permission. If the author Junwei requests, I will take it down.
I had a hard time finding this particular mod, but I'm glad I did.
Yeah it's hard to find this mod since it doesn't get endorsed much nor does it get downloaded often because it covers a particular part of the game. Endorse my mod if you think it's good.
I've just gotten the first word of Unrelenting Force, and the shout is working normally, as in it has the built-in cooldown and drains no stamina or magicka, is this intentional?
I'd appreciate some help with this.
And here it is.
A few proposals/requests for extension/alternatives come to mind, though, and hence a few thoughts for possible MCM configurability:
- Sliders for stamina cost and magicka cost, as a percentage of shout cooldown.
- Toggles for what happens when you try to shout and don't have enough magicka/stamina:
- "use health instead" was an idea I discounted myself, but if optional, it'd be fine;
- "revert to normal shout cooldown" would be another;
- can't think of any other serious options at the moment, unless "coughing" counts
I'm debating on whether or not I keep the magicka cost not to be affected by any shout cost reductions like talos' blessings or the speech skill. It'll make it harder for the players to find out how much they use without checking my excelsheet, but you won't be able to spam your shouts just by "leveling" stamina.
Also I think I should move this to game effects and changes and immersion so I'm doing that.
I haven't balanced the stamina and magicka cost, but you can see in the shout menu how much stamina the shouts uses. What I also changed is that you can only use call dragon and storm call once an ingame day. Wouldn't it feel like slavery if you could call Ohdaviing whenever you want? And I highly doubt it's realistic that you could call up a storm 24/7, not that calling up a storm with your voice is realistic in the first place, but you know it's for the sake of balance.
You can see the changelogs for the changes I made, I also have the excelsheet uploaded in case you just want to see numbers.
The only one thing I still have to do is think up a way to have stamina go in the negatives so it doesn't stop at 0 and then recover right away, despite having used 60 more stamina than you actually have.
Also, no dragonborn huh? I wish it were a possibility but if you haven't bought it yet I doubt you want it. If this is a simple matter I can probably make a dlc patch myself. Though with that offer comes the disclaimer that I have no idea what I'm doing.
A lot of mods tie speechcraft to shouting, and I'm personally for it. Lore friendliness is a fickle subject, but I would not tie magic trees to shouting. They are very much distinct from what I understand, as shouting is a measure of innate ability and personal strength coming from a dragonborn. Powerful tongues aren't mentioned as being mages of any stripe, so I would assume the fields of shouting and magic are very much distinct. The idea of becoming more fluent in the voice to reduce effort (costs) and improve persuasion (shout magnitude) though - makes sense to me.
What I actually do with the mod is calculate the stamina and magicka cost based on the cooldown the player has when it's calculating (not most accurate way of doing things, but whatever) and then reduced the remaining cooldown to 1 second since you can't really shout right away because of how shouting works. There will be some cooldown when you happen to use more stamina than you actually have, but I'm going to change that part as well because I should take my time to perfect the mod rather than take the easy way out.
I guess I'll stop focusing on compatibility and just change the whole shout system with what I have.
I'm looking into changing how my script is activated because it could lag a bit for some reason like it could activate seconds after shouting even though I use the OnSpellCast event.
I'll be checking if I could make this less dependent on scripts and have the shouts use...let's say, half of the stamina cost? A full Unrelenting force should have a base stamina cost of between 100 and 150 in my opinion. If it works, I'll tie in speechcraft in this and have it reduce at most 50% of the cost.
Since I have all day, I could probably change the whole thing and update this today. Hopefully I'll be done with everything then.
I've always thought shout cooldowns were a bit arbitrary. Why would your ability to speak/shout fire be limited by a 30 second cooldowns...if other than to catch your breath? You can have a similar magical attack using the magicka resource, so it seems to me that shouts should use similar mechanics. Being out of breath is literally the indication of running out of stamina, and Paarthurnax mentions shouting in the context of "Su'um ahrk morah." breath and focus. Following that logic, magicka could be considered a measure of focus. In practice, shouting could use stamina for lesser shouts, and for those shouts where you do something rather spectacular (storm call?) you might add in a magicka cost. The idea here being that you could shout off a few fire breaths for say ~100 stamina each, or 300 stamina for a full shout. However, if you wanted to do something like...become ethereal, which would not be a good ability to have spammable, you could have the cost be *all* stamina and magicka, or a very high cost for each. The amulet of talos would make a bit more sense to me as well - instead of an arbitrary 20% off of cooldowns because of...why...you could have a "blessing of talos" that reduces the effort required to channel the Thu'um by lowering costs. I'd love to hear from anyone who might expand the idea, and of course an actual mod would be the bees knees.
It seems you and I share some similar ideas on shouting, though I made shout use both either way. What do you think about the stamina and magicka use the mod I already made right now. Is it overpowered, or too costly to be worth using in actual combat? So far a level 1 fire breath will use 87-ish stamina and magicka without any reduction. I still believe magicka is essential in any shout, as you actually form magic by shouting out words, but I could try changing a few things by having several shouts use only stamina.
With the blessings of talos, you mean changing the active effect so it would reduce the percentage of the cost directly instead? That does make more sense.
I was also thinking about actually altering all shout cooldown so I don't have to use complicated looking math and I'll think about altering damage and duration to make the shouts closer to being an alternative to magic. I probably shouldn't do that though, but we'll see.
Oh and one thing to discuss about. I once temporarily added the possibility to reduce magicka and stamina cost through either speech level or from any of the magic school level. I'm not so sure if it's lore friendly at all so I removed it. It could make sense to reduce magicka cost from some of the magic school level; as you become better at controlling magicka, you could focus better and use less magicka for the same effect.
Not so sure about speech level, other than being able to speak more convincing with less effort, in a debate that is, which is what shouting with a dragon would look like.
Who in lore died from shouting themselves to death EVER? Don't understand this statement.
I get the concept of trying to scale shouting down in usefulness but its a bit overdone.
You would never open a battle up with a shout since it would immediately drain your reserves. Shouting would only be useful when you're on your last legs and desperate or the shout would end the combat.
On top of that utility shouts like aura whisper and whirlwind sprint are rendered even less attractive.
Its a good idea. Don't think I'd use it. But it obviously needs a lot of balancing especially in the special cases like non combat shouts.
You recover magicka and stamina even faster when out of combat stance, so I don't see the unattractiveness of using non-combat shouts.
I've updated the mod to make it easier to use later in levels by having it scale with a few skills and I've removed the damaging health part for now just to see how that goes. makes calling the dragon not so punishing.
Still don't see how this is especially "lore friendly" though.
Nothing in lore suggests that shouts drain stamina and magicka.
This is purely a gameplay balancing mod. Although without the health drain it sounds much better. There are honestly very few effective shouts that could have been cast without severely harming yourself. Most third tier shouts sit around 40-50 second cooldowns. x 5 = 200-250 hit to magicka and stamina.
Warriors speccing in stamina and health lose their magicka but they don't care. But then take the rest of the hit to health...
Mages in magicka lose stamina and can't run away but lose a good portion of their casting ability.
lose -lose all around.
The cost/effect ratio was just too high for 3rd tier shouts(and may still be). I can see this effect being a good balance factor for cheesing ethereal though. It really is broken on the first tier! But you can't ignore the fact that storm call 3rd tier is unusable.
600 x 5 = 3000 stamina loss. A highly respectable stamina with enchantment boosts might hit 1000. Then you're still in the hole 2 grand and can't use shouts for the next 45 MINUTES! Even with your bonuses stacking up you're unlikely to get it below 20 minutes. No, thank you.
Needs fine tuning. Or logarithmic scaling which I would highly recommend to even out the curve and cause low tier cheesers to have bite but to not have 3rd tier arsenal become completely unusable.
(even though most of the used voices state otherwise)
I have to admit I'm guilty of making this mod before getting all the shouts, so I didn't even know storm call has a cooldown of 600 seconds. I'll be making a change to make the higher cooldown shouts be easy enough to use without any problems.
Thanks for these posts, it's insightful and made me realize how the mod is more flawed than I first thought. It's going to help me make this small mod work right.
My goal for tomorrow would be to adjust storm call so it would use roughly 400 stamina& magicka without reduction. If you have roughly 200 stamina, it'll mean you'll have 200/5=40 seconds cooldown at max.
EDIT: Done and I fixed something else as well since I realized I had Improved shouts on during my testing so I was using less stamina and magicka than in vanilla. I've changed that to fit it better with vanilla.