Report issues with NPC AI schedules here ====================================================
A number of InconNPCs require 'special' AI packages because their normal schedules are affected by default game quests in some way. For example, in the default game, Maven as a special AI package that sends her to the second floor of Bees and Barbs during one of the Thieve's Guild quests, so that when the Dragonborn returns after completing the mission, s/he will find Maven sitting all posh and 'mafia boss-like', waiting to hear the report. InconNPCs accommodates this by assigning Maven's Bodyguard a special, corresponding AI package, that will send him to the Bees and Barbs to to guard the entry way into her second floor 'alcove' so he can check out anyone who tries to approach her.
The purpose of this thread is to verify these 'special' AI schedules added to InconNPCs. Testing some of these packages may be difficult for me if I don't have a save game near a certain quest stage, so I'll need help with this. I will post a number questions about some default game NPC schedules, and YOU can help me immensely simply by sharing your knowledge based on your own experience of playing the default game quests in the game.
You can also use this topic to report any InconNPC whose special AI packages are not working, for example, InconNPCs in Whiterun, Solitude, and Windhelm who do not head for a 'safe' interior location during the Civil War sieges on these cities.
*Please note that this topic will be restricted to discussions about assignment of InconNPCs AI packages. It is NOT a 'general bug report topic' and any bug reports not related to InconNPCs AI packages should not be reported in this topic.
*There are probably going to be a lot of quest spoilers, just so people reading this forum will be properly warned. ====================================================
I am currently in need of information on the following:
- the Winterhold College students and the groundskeeper should stay put in either the Arcanaeum or the Hall of Attainment during the final Winterhold College quest where there are battles occurring in Winterhold. Please help me confirm this by posting your feedback here.
Hey Ripple, First off: great mod, skyrim feels much more alive and my opportunistic psycho\ racist dark elf has much more to kill. I really feel like i can murder an entire city rather than a half empty village. But i have one major issue, certain Vanilla NPC cannot be talked to. They spit out a phrase when activated and i can pickpocket them but when standing before them an pointing the cursor at them the "Press E to talk" interface does not show up. They just babble their standart line and no Dialog options show up. How can i fix this ? I use Interesting NPCS, immersive citizens and no city overhauls.
I'm not sure if this is the correct place for this.
I installed your mod not too long ago. I believe I had already sided with the Stormcloaks, though I had not taken Whiterun yet. But once I did, that's when the issue began (the only issue I've seen with this mod). Whenever I return to Whiterun, both Whiterun Guards, and Stormcloak Guards spawn, and begin fighting to the death. This issue also occurs in Dragonsreach; or anywhere guards of either faction are meant to spawn before/after the city is taken.
This isn't like the battle for Whiterun though, as neither faction is hostile to me (as long as I do not attack of course), and no barricades are errected. Only the "after battle" damage is present as it should be. I have noticed that the Stormcloaks are a limited number, and die out soon; however Skyrim continues to spawn more and more Whiterun guards as they are killed off (I believe this is vanilla behaviour, based on previous guard killing sprees). Also, if I wait until the fighting is done, save, and then load that save (even after closing Skyrim), no new guards will spawn, and instead the ones that were saved will remain. So this issue seems to be to do with entering the cells.
Great mod, thanks for sharing it. I've been using it for a couple of days now and I noticed that some NPCs ignore the fire. For example at the The Bannered Mare they seem to walk right trough the fire pit. Not sure whether this is something already known so I thought I might post it here.
I've never seen that. But that's not related to AI packages. NPCs in the game do not inherently avoid fires since fires are just 'decorations' for the most part. But the vanilla game typically 'navmesh' around these objects as if they are obstructions (so NPCs will not 'walk through them' ). If I have to guess, I would guess you have a mod that edits that cell, move objects around, but did not make corresponding edits to the navmesh, which is what is what causes NPCs to walk through the fire pit.
"the Winterhold College students and the groundskeeper should stay put in either the Arcanaeum or the Hall of Attainment during the final Winterhold College quest where there are battles occurring in Winterhold. Please help me confirm this by posting your feedback here."
Yeah, they didn't stay put in my game. (The groundskeeper even complained about my weapons not being sheathed. I guess Ancano's activities had somehow damaged his brain). Any other details I can provide?
I have not managed to test the mage guild safety packages as extensively as the civil war sieges, so it's possible that the conditions may not be working (although I tested it once after I implemented it and it worked fine for me. This was back in version 1.3a or so, I believe). It will be very easy to correct, but not until I know why the current set up is not working in your game. Did you play the mage college quest normally? Did you, at any point, use console commands to complete quests or advance quest stages? Are you using any mods that might affect the mage college in some way, including, for example, mods that edit the mage college areas and potentially place furniture or other obstructions, or move transition markers/doors around?
Also, if you have a save game from before you started that stage of the mage college quest, it will really help me if you keep that save game around, so when I implement a fix, you can help check and see if it works. Thanks.
No console to complete quests. Played everything normally, everything else worked like a charm. Only a retexture pack for college which changes no items (Sexy Winterhold).
I use 3dnpc and a small "Mage College Quest" mod that adds Ajira and Galbedir from Morrowind to Skyrim. There's also a minor supporting default dialogue-less NPC named Tatiyana from the Anduniel companion mod, so the Arcanaeum has 2 more NPC's then vanilla, while the Hall of Countenance has 3 more.
I also disabled the Watchman. This was my only use of the console in this particular game.
Another info bit of importance: I had previously played though the college line with my previous character and only 3DNPC and Inconsequential NPC installed (so no Ajira, Galbedir or Tatiyana). I also didn't disable the watchman back then. Everything worked fine, though I don't know whether it was because the scripts worked, or by accident.
Just to confirm, are you saying that the Winterhold College safety package actually worked fine for you in a previous playthrough? This is very odd. It sounds more like there may be a conflict with a mod that you added in the current playthrough that was not in your load order in the last playthrough. Disabling the the college watchman will have no impact on this. These NPCs are 'inconsequential' and their deaths will not break anything. Hmm....are you seeing the students running around during the Eye of Magnus battle, or just the groundskeeper?
It could have worked, or I could have stumbled upon the quest ending in time when they wouldn't have normally walked around the yard and the Hall of the Elements anyway.
I doubt that any of my current mods could have whacked the scripting (especially while not damaging anything else), but I guess nothing is certain in internal coding vagaries of Skyrim.
"Hmm....are you seeing the students running around during the Eye of Magnus battle, or just the groundskeeper? " Right after I blasted the entrance with the Staff, I've seen two students walk in the yard and the groundskeeper walk in the Hall with the Eye in it.
The students don't have AI packages that take them to the yard (the groundskeeper does, though). They only go from the Hall of Attainment to the Arcaneum and vice versa. It could be the original safety package was not working to begin with, but you got back to the college around the time when they would be either in the Arcaneum or the Hall of Attainment, whereas in the current playthrough, you happened to get back to the college around the time when they were transitioning locations as a result of their normal package. I will make the safety package less 'stringent' in the next update. Unfortunately, I am so swamped right now I won't have time to test this until the week of Christmas. If you can keep a save game from befor you accepted the quest to retrieve the Staff of Magnus (or at the very least, before you entered the dungeon), it would really help me confirm whether the new safety packages work when I update the mod. And thanks for the report.
Ok, I just tested the 'Siege of Whiterun' myself, as Imperial Legion and as Stormcloak. The 'siege safety package' I implemented way back in 1.3a are working perfectly for me. I started the siege at various times during the day, and ran around the city for 20 minutes each time, looking for InconNPCs, and found not a one. So, those who seeing InconNPCs in Whiterun during the siege: 1) make sure you did not use the console to complete quests or skip quest stages--this will break many things, including quests, and possibly the 'siege safety package' I implemented. 2) If you are using a 'city overhaul' type mod, it may cause weird behaviour if those mods mess with vanilla game markers.
I upgraded to 1.4 and loaded whiterun battle fought this morning, and just ran aroud looking for your npcs... This is what i found:
the girl was standing still in front of Breezehome and the boy idem in front of the drunken huntsman sign. Talked to both, the girl stole my gold, but the boy just asked if i needed something. Shall i add that by the boy there was a patron (xx01e5c2) just standing there, but a few minutes later i saw her getting into the drunken huntsman back door.
I just made a save there now, so if you need me to reload and check something else, just let me know.
EDIT: Check pic cool kidz showing both for exact location.
Ok, forgot to mention that the carriage guard in Whiterun was at her post. The carriage was gone, but she was still there, and ran for her life when the stormcloacks stormed the place. Dunno if she made it, cos i didnt survive long enough there
ABOUT RIFTEN: I got to the keep at 12:50 and Maven was just getting to the Jarl's bed, her bodyguard standing guard next to her.
Thanks for that report. It really helps. Looks like the new 'Civil War Safety package' is another dud. :/ I guess the problem is that the civil war sieges are radiant quests, so the conditions aren't working properly. Back to the drawing board I guess. Also thanks for letting me know about Maven using the Jarl's bed. That one is easy to address. I'll put him on guard duty outside of her room when she's there. Kudos to you!
First off, the following results are from testing both Inconsequential NPCs version 1.3 and version 1.3a. Results were the same when using either version.
Also, I tested this using Civil War Overhaul 1.07 first. Then I went back and uninstalled CWO, started a brand new save game series and progressed to the Battle for Whiterun in the vanilla civil war questline. The results were the same with or without CWO installed, so I probably won't bother with that again.
And... now the results:
The female carriage guard appears outside of the Whiterun stables during the Battle for Whiterun. She was not concerned about the battle. Her ID is xx00ac0f
Upon entering Whiterun via the main gate, I saw two urchins running around as they would normally. Their IDs were xx02b84f (male), xx02b850 (female). If you accidentally strike an urchin, the Stormcloaks all become hostile to them. It's rather hilarious at first, until you start thinking what if it were a real life situation. :X
I also saw a female laborer ID xx0632bd outside of Breezehome and a male laborer outside of Belethor's ID xx06689d. They did not seem concerned about the onslaught ensuing around them.
I also want to note that upon entering Whiterun, the game appears to do all sorts of hacky clean-up jobs to remove NPCs, like removing the Alik'r warriors, for example. Sometimes, it does not succeed in this task and leaves NPCs behind. I also encountered Lillith Maiden-Loom out on the road leading up to the main gate of Whiterun during the battle. I know she and the Alik'r are not added by INPCs, but I mention these examples to bring light to the fact that even the vanilla game is not very good at cleaning up NPCs during the Battle for Whiterun.
Thanks for this. Well this sucks. In Whiterun, did you see any 'Patron' NPCs in the streets? Also, what time of the day did your siege take place?
While you are at it, if you can test the Windhelm battle and Solitude battle as well when you get to those, I'd appreciate it. See if the carriage guards there are disabled along with the carriage driver or are still hanging about. Also keep an eye out for the Solitude 'Laborer' NPCs.
Also, if you can keep a copy of a save game made from another location prior to approaching the Whiterun location (before getting the quest from Ulfric), so you can help me test future 'methods', I would really appreciate it.
Give Feedback
AI schedule Testing Feedback (20 comments)
====================================================
A number of InconNPCs require 'special' AI packages because their normal schedules are affected by default game quests in some way. For example, in the default game, Maven as a special AI package that sends her to the second floor of Bees and Barbs during one of the Thieve's Guild quests, so that when the Dragonborn returns after completing the mission, s/he will find Maven sitting all posh and 'mafia boss-like', waiting to hear the report. InconNPCs accommodates this by assigning Maven's Bodyguard a special, corresponding AI package, that will send him to the Bees and Barbs to to guard the entry way into her second floor 'alcove' so he can check out anyone who tries to approach her.
The purpose of this thread is to verify these 'special' AI schedules added to InconNPCs. Testing some of these packages may be difficult for me if I don't have a save game near a certain quest stage, so I'll need help with this. I will post a number questions about some default game NPC schedules, and YOU can help me immensely simply by sharing your knowledge based on your own experience of playing the default game quests in the game.
You can also use this topic to report any InconNPC whose special AI packages are not working, for example, InconNPCs in Whiterun, Solitude, and Windhelm who do not head for a 'safe' interior location during the Civil War sieges on these cities.
*Please note that this topic will be restricted to discussions about assignment of InconNPCs AI packages. It is NOT a 'general bug report topic' and any bug reports not related to InconNPCs AI packages should not be reported in this topic.
*There are probably going to be a lot of quest spoilers, just so people reading this forum will be properly warned.
====================================================
I am currently in need of information on the following:
- the Winterhold College students and the groundskeeper should stay put in either the Arcanaeum or the Hall of Attainment during the final Winterhold College quest where there are battles occurring in Winterhold. Please help me confirm this by posting your feedback here.
First off: great mod, skyrim feels much more alive and my opportunistic psycho\ racist dark elf has much more to kill. I really feel like i can murder an entire city rather than a half empty village. But i have one major issue, certain Vanilla NPC cannot be talked to. They spit out a phrase when activated and i can pickpocket them but when standing before them an pointing the cursor at them the "Press E to talk" interface does not show up. They just babble their standart line and no Dialog options show up. How can i fix this ? I use Interesting NPCS, immersive citizens and no city overhauls.
I installed your mod not too long ago. I believe I had already sided with the Stormcloaks, though I had not taken Whiterun yet. But once I did, that's when the issue began (the only issue I've seen with this mod). Whenever I return to Whiterun, both Whiterun Guards, and Stormcloak Guards spawn, and begin fighting to the death. This issue also occurs in Dragonsreach; or anywhere guards of either faction are meant to spawn before/after the city is taken.
This isn't like the battle for Whiterun though, as neither faction is hostile to me (as long as I do not attack of course), and no barricades are errected. Only the "after battle" damage is present as it should be. I have noticed that the Stormcloaks are a limited number, and die out soon; however Skyrim continues to spawn more and more Whiterun guards as they are killed off (I believe this is vanilla behaviour, based on previous guard killing sprees). Also, if I wait until the fighting is done, save, and then load that save (even after closing Skyrim), no new guards will spawn, and instead the ones that were saved will remain. So this issue seems to be to do with entering the cells.
Any ideas of what I can do to fix this issue?
Yeah, they didn't stay put in my game. (The groundskeeper even complained about my weapons not being sheathed. I guess Ancano's activities had somehow damaged his brain). Any other details I can provide?
Also, if you have a save game from before you started that stage of the mage college quest, it will really help me if you keep that save game around, so when I implement a fix, you can help check and see if it works. Thanks.
I use 3dnpc and a small "Mage College Quest" mod that adds Ajira and Galbedir from Morrowind to Skyrim. There's also a minor supporting default dialogue-less NPC named Tatiyana from the Anduniel companion mod, so the Arcanaeum has 2 more NPC's then vanilla, while the Hall of Countenance has 3 more.
I also disabled the Watchman. This was my only use of the console in this particular game.
Another info bit of importance: I had previously played though the college line with my previous character and only 3DNPC and Inconsequential NPC installed (so no Ajira, Galbedir or Tatiyana). I also didn't disable the watchman back then. Everything worked fine, though I don't know whether it was because the scripts worked, or by accident.
I doubt that any of my current mods could have whacked the scripting (especially while not damaging anything else), but I guess nothing is certain in internal coding vagaries of Skyrim.
"Hmm....are you seeing the students running around during the Eye of Magnus battle, or just the groundskeeper? "
Right after I blasted the entrance with the Staff, I've seen two students walk in the yard and the groundskeeper walk in the Hall with the Eye in it.
the girl was standing still in front of Breezehome and the boy idem in front of the drunken huntsman sign. Talked to both, the girl stole my gold, but the boy just asked if i needed something. Shall i add that by the boy there was a patron (xx01e5c2) just standing there, but a few minutes later i saw her getting into the drunken huntsman back door.
I just made a save there now, so if you need me to reload and check something else, just let me know.
EDIT: Check pic cool kidz showing both for exact location.
ABOUT RIFTEN: I got to the keep at 12:50 and Maven was just getting to the Jarl's bed, her bodyguard standing guard next to her.
First off, the following results are from testing both Inconsequential NPCs version 1.3 and version 1.3a. Results were the same when using either version.
Also, I tested this using Civil War Overhaul 1.07 first. Then I went back and uninstalled CWO, started a brand new save game series and progressed to the Battle for Whiterun in the vanilla civil war questline. The results were the same with or without CWO installed, so I probably won't bother with that again.
And... now the results:
The female carriage guard appears outside of the Whiterun stables during the Battle for Whiterun. She was not concerned about the battle. Her ID is xx00ac0f
Upon entering Whiterun via the main gate, I saw two urchins running around as they would normally. Their IDs were xx02b84f (male), xx02b850 (female). If you accidentally strike an urchin, the Stormcloaks all become hostile to them. It's rather hilarious at first, until you start thinking what if it were a real life situation. :X
I also saw a female laborer ID xx0632bd outside of Breezehome and a male laborer outside of Belethor's ID xx06689d. They did not seem concerned about the onslaught ensuing around them.
I also want to note that upon entering Whiterun, the game appears to do all sorts of hacky clean-up jobs to remove NPCs, like removing the Alik'r warriors, for example. Sometimes, it does not succeed in this task and leaves NPCs behind. I also encountered Lillith Maiden-Loom out on the road leading up to the main gate of Whiterun during the battle. I know she and the Alik'r are not added by INPCs, but I mention these examples to bring light to the fact that even the vanilla game is not very good at cleaning up NPCs during the Battle for Whiterun.
Hope this helps!
While you are at it, if you can test the Windhelm battle and Solitude battle as well when you get to those, I'd appreciate it. See if the carriage guards there are disabled along with the carriage driver or are still hanging about. Also keep an eye out for the Solitude 'Laborer' NPCs.
Also, if you can keep a copy of a save game made from another location prior to approaching the Whiterun location (before getting the quest from Ulfric), so you can help me test future 'methods', I would really appreciate it.