Hi Narue, thank you for this mod! I am sorry for the trouble, but could you create a compatibility patch for Spell Learning and Discovery (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/87495)? I believe that the two mods would work well together, but there are a few small glitches.
There are two settings for SL&D available in the MCM. One replaces the spell tome with "Spell Notes" upon the tome entering inventory. The other option is that the spell tome is left alone. If the spell tome is not replaced, it can still be "eaten" by the player.
Now, when Grimiore - Spell Mastery is also used, then the spell learning time from SL&D can be overridden by using the spell book. The simplest compatibility patch would be to disable the ability to learn spells by activating the spell tome. This way, the spell will be "learned" via SL&D but then mastered using Grimoire's mechanics.
An even better mesh between Grimoire and SL&D would also have the spell tomes count as the "Spell Notes" that SL&D uses to increase your chances of discovering a new spell and/or have the "Insight" mechanic from Grimiore increase your chances of learning the spell in SL&D.
The final feature that would really make the two mods work together would be if when a new spell is discovered via SL&D, some "spell notes" would be added that act like the spell tomes do in Grimoire. This would aid in roleplaying, as you would have to "consult your notes" when casting an experimental new spell.
While I'm spitballing features here, It would also be neat (from a RP perspective) if there was a small magicka pentalty attached to casting spells that aren't yet mastered, representing the mental energy of remembering a lot of new things at once.
I realize that this is a real shot in the dark asking for this, and that most of the things I'm suggesting are more related to Spell Learning and Discovery rather than this mod. However, the SL&D mod author hasn't been active in a little while, and so I thought that this message had a much better shot at reaching your eyes than auie4545's.
Again, thank you for this mod, and sorry for the imposition!
Wait, so you mean they DO indeed work together out the box as long I set up spell learning to left the tome alone and I also never use it. The two mods not having a death match with no winner or worse my safe file getting bloat/corrupted?
Edit:Nvm, they do indeed work, but you loose the rp bonus of having a stack of notes(they dont generate when you untick removing spell book when picking up), or we can exchange them for the study notes anyaway and jsut get another spell book one via vendor or console(for the uniques) for mastering it with Grimoire once you learn it with sl&d.
Interesting. Very good that the tomes aren't consumed anymore. Otherwise it would be impossible to learn the Flaming Familiar spell. There is only ever the one copy you get from Anska. If you want it in your library you have to use the console to create a copy.
Only, while it's okay to solve the Flames and Healing problem with additional tomes, what about the additional spells the Bretons, Altmer, and Dunmer have? They'd theoretically know a spell but can't use it without the book. Which they don't have. A Dunmer could play the vanilla start and find the Sparks book in the torture chamber at Helgen. However, Conjure Familiar and Fury don't exist like that, and alternate start scenarios are popular, so the Dunmer, too, are left out for many players.
I have a few idea about the mod, since having no modding skill, I dont know it can be with the 10 y-old engine - The mastery keep going on as long as you keep doing it, so go the damage / effective ( dud, a master Destruction should do better than a who-know-Nord, even at Flame, right? not just about manapool but also the heat) - Maybe miscast chance, or chance to use more mana to casting a spell , as you just read it from a book without practice. even a master can trip on his foot sometime =)) that will be realistic as the concept of the mod
I love this, thank you. Spell Research is way too much, but the other immersive nerfing for magic mods arent' quite enough.
I have an idea for expanding this that might be simple to implement given you've already built the framework. Depending on the level of the spell, and what perks you have, you may have to go back and carry the spellbook to remaster (in a tenth the original time) after some time after you learn the spell. With higher level perks, you don't need to do this for lower level spells.
Then, on top of all that, you can only carry these spell books on you in special carriers, which only carry a small number of books (maybe only one?)! So now you're managing your spells at low levels, and learning is hard until you gain the (vanilla) perks that allow you to retain easier.
This would be a good way to make mod added spells (with patches or an in game way to recognize new spell books like Frostbite recognizes clothing) not so game breaking, and it would allow for mods that make master level spells way less annoying (dual casting, shorter animations) to not also make them overpowered, since you have to always manage them.
A bit like Vancian Magic from Ordinator, but without a perk overhaul needed.
I'm not sure if you have plans to expand the mod or whether suggestions are even welcome, but I have a feature request. I really like the 'study tome' aspect, and if possible, I would like to ask if you could possibly implement an option wherein you had to study a tome first a couple of times before you can learn a spell?
This would represent the two aspects of learning: passive and practical. You read and study the tome to learn the spell and then you practice until you master it. Higher skill level tomes could require more passive studying before you could even learn and equip it.
Suggestions are always welcome. Exactly zero of my mods would be where they are without feedback from you awesome people.
> I would like to ask if you could possibly implement an option wherein you had to study a tome first a couple of times before you can learn a spell?
That would require an SKSE plugin, which I've been hesitant to get into. Not because I'm unfamiliar with C++, but because it promises to be quite the rabbit hole. The best I can do with Papyrus is cancel (or fizzle) any attempts to cast the spell before you've reached a certain threshold of mastery through studying the tome.
I use The Way of the Force mod and Sith holocrons are supposed to self-destruct once used in the lore :) , so I hope I can turn the book feature on an off, I'll find out.
Could you tell me how much time it would take to totally complete Mazdian's request (just curious)?
Incredible mod! Simple and greatly improves the spell system! I think the mod would be even better if you could make the power of the spell improve over the course of learning, which is an incentive to prefer to study the spell instead of learning it in combat (at least until the spell becomes good enough for you to risk yourself in a fight). For example: 0 - 25% of mastery the spell causes only 25% of it magnitude, range, time effect, damage, etc; 25 - 50% could be 50% of those attributes; 50 - 75% ... until it reaches mastery at 100% where the spell becomes what it was meant to be since vanilla. I hope you liked the idea and continue to improve this excellent mod!
I play with Spell Research, No Starting Spells and No Spell Tomes as Loot or From Vendors. So I basically have no spell tomes available at game start. Vendors do not have spell tomes for sale. As the game progresses, and I complete quests, I occasionally come across the odd spell tome. The mod Realistic Trading Stocks of Skyrim also adds a very few spell tomes for sale by priests and mages. Once I use Spell Research to discover a new spell, I can then generate the corresponding spell tome if I wish (previously used it as a source of septims, to sell spell tomes to vendors). My question: Is this combination of mods consistent with your mod? Thank you for your efforts in creating a promising new mod.
32 comments
There are two settings for SL&D available in the MCM. One replaces the spell tome with "Spell Notes" upon the tome entering inventory. The other option is that the spell tome is left alone. If the spell tome is not replaced, it can still be "eaten" by the player.
Now, when Grimiore - Spell Mastery is also used, then the spell learning time from SL&D can be overridden by using the spell book. The simplest compatibility patch would be to disable the ability to learn spells by activating the spell tome. This way, the spell will be "learned" via SL&D but then mastered using Grimoire's mechanics.
An even better mesh between Grimoire and SL&D would also have the spell tomes count as the "Spell Notes" that SL&D uses to increase your chances of discovering a new spell and/or have the "Insight" mechanic from Grimiore increase your chances of learning the spell in SL&D.
The final feature that would really make the two mods work together would be if when a new spell is discovered via SL&D, some "spell notes" would be added that act like the spell tomes do in Grimoire. This would aid in roleplaying, as you would have to "consult your notes" when casting an experimental new spell.
While I'm spitballing features here, It would also be neat (from a RP perspective) if there was a small magicka pentalty attached to casting spells that aren't yet mastered, representing the mental energy of remembering a lot of new things at once.
I realize that this is a real shot in the dark asking for this, and that most of the things I'm suggesting are more related to Spell Learning and Discovery rather than this mod. However, the SL&D mod author hasn't been active in a little while, and so I thought that this message had a much better shot at reaching your eyes than auie4545's.
Again, thank you for this mod, and sorry for the imposition!
Edit:Nvm, they do indeed work, but you loose the rp bonus of having a stack of notes(they dont generate when you untick removing spell book when picking up), or we can exchange them for the study notes anyaway and jsut get another spell book one via vendor or console(for the uniques) for mastering it with Grimoire once you learn it with sl&d.
Only, while it's okay to solve the Flames and Healing problem with additional tomes, what about the additional spells the Bretons, Altmer, and Dunmer have? They'd theoretically know a spell but can't use it without the book. Which they don't have. A Dunmer could play the vanilla start and find the Sparks book in the torture chamber at Helgen. However, Conjure Familiar and Fury don't exist like that, and alternate start scenarios are popular, so the Dunmer, too, are left out for many players.
Is it possible to change that somehow?
- The mastery keep going on as long as you keep doing it, so go the damage / effective ( dud, a master Destruction should do better than a who-know-Nord, even at Flame, right? not just about manapool but also the heat)
- Maybe miscast chance, or chance to use more mana to casting a spell , as you just read it from a book without practice. even a master can trip on his foot sometime =)) that will be realistic as the concept of the mod
I have an idea for expanding this that might be simple to implement given you've already built the framework. Depending on the level of the spell, and what perks you have, you may have to go back and carry the spellbook to remaster (in a tenth the original time) after some time after you learn the spell. With higher level perks, you don't need to do this for lower level spells.
Then, on top of all that, you can only carry these spell books on you in special carriers, which only carry a small number of books (maybe only one?)! So now you're managing your spells at low levels, and learning is hard until you gain the (vanilla) perks that allow you to retain easier.
This would be a good way to make mod added spells (with patches or an in game way to recognize new spell books like Frostbite recognizes clothing) not so game breaking, and it would allow for mods that make master level spells way less annoying (dual casting, shorter animations) to not also make them overpowered, since you have to always manage them.
A bit like Vancian Magic from Ordinator, but without a perk overhaul needed.
I'm not sure if you have plans to expand the mod or whether suggestions are even welcome, but I have a feature request. I really like the 'study tome' aspect, and if possible, I would like to ask if you could possibly implement an option wherein you had to study a tome first a couple of times before you can learn a spell?
This would represent the two aspects of learning: passive and practical. You read and study the tome to learn the spell and then you practice until you master it. Higher skill level tomes could require more passive studying before you could even learn and equip it.
> I would like to ask if you could possibly implement an option wherein you had to study a tome first a couple of times before you can learn a spell?
That would require an SKSE plugin, which I've been hesitant to get into. Not because I'm unfamiliar with C++, but because it promises to be quite the rabbit hole.
I use The Way of the Force mod and Sith holocrons are supposed to self-destruct once used in the lore :) , so I hope I can turn the book feature on an off, I'll find out.
Could you tell me how much time it would take to totally complete Mazdian's request (just curious)?
0 - 25% of mastery the spell causes only 25% of it magnitude, range, time effect, damage, etc;
25 - 50% could be 50% of those attributes; 50 - 75% ... until it reaches mastery at 100% where the spell becomes what it was meant to be since vanilla.
I hope you liked the idea and continue to improve this excellent mod!