V1.1 has been released, adding many new Enemy Stat and AI changes to the mod, greatly changing the experience! V1.1.1 fixes woodside apartments not loading/crash. Here is the google spreadsheet that contains an overview of Property values for the mod:
Note: Even though values are listed here, many things are affected by a value change that you will have to see while playing. Such as an enemy with increased speed also means many changes with how they behave based off their speed such as how far/long an enemy will go after attacking/missing the player.
Finally finished the game on Extreme IV with AndrewRCR's Weapon Rebalancing (Hardcore-Lite) + Reduced Healing. First of all, I want to say that I really enjoyed doing my NG+ with this mod. Pyramid Head duo and Maria were massive bullet sponges, made even worse with the -30% damage penalty on weapon base damage. I was OK with that, but once again boss attack speed is an issue.
Pyramid Heads:
The continuous onslaught of attacks makes reloading extremely difficult, as dodging will cancel the reload.
Weapons like the Shotgun will "reset" Pyramid Head to a neutral state where he will attack immediately; so you end up with situations where one is about to lunge forward, tanks a shell, and immediately begins another attack.
At a certain point, their aggression will increase once you do enough damage, and you can be caught in an endless loop of being chased and hit at the end of your dodge without being able to retaliate.
With Maria, her phase 3 in particular has two separate attack strings that are impossible to dodge consecutively unless you evade at the tip of her range (much easier said than done since she'll constantly try to close the gap while spawning moths).
Two whips on your right, then a sweep to the left.
Stomps forward with her right, then left leg.
Again, I know the mod is meant to be difficult and entirely optional. But I really believe increasing attack speed is something that should be avoided, as it can create an escalating power creep of enemies especially without tools to deal with it. Instead of striving to create the most difficult challenge possible where the player is intended to fail, you should be increasing difficulty but still setting people up to succeed. At the very minimum, attack speed needs to be adjusted conservatively to allow players to evade and counterattack consistently. Maybe try doing a 0-8-15% attack speed increase from Extreme I-IV-VII? Or as someone else said, develop a script/GUI that allows us to customize the individual aspects to our liking. Again, movement speed is fine, and I think the other tweaks have made the mod a vastly different experience than vanilla Hard. Also should mention, I've experienced a bug with Eddie on phase 3 where he will keep running away without ever attacking. Not sure if it's a one time thing, you may want to check on that
Time for me to take a break until more mods come out, and I'll be following this one for sure!
Yeah I definitely already expected enemy attack speed to be a hit or miss with users already lol. I may add one with or without attack speed increase, but keep that just to the optional versions.
I don't plan on making a script/gui currently, i kinda stopped playing this game already lol.
I do plan on readjusting fleshlips (already removed in the latest version), as well as more testing with Pyramidhead and Maria since I now know their files work 100% as opposed to Eddie and abstractdaddy which broke the game :/ I'll do that at some point, but for now, it'll just be separate versions.
Congrats on finishing your playthrough though! Glad you enjoyed most of it, and big thanks to the bug reports to know the game can be played through 100%.
I think the primary issue of twin PHs is the moving speed. The default behavior of the twin PHs is to flank the player, and with their enhanced speed, it becomes nearly impossible to escape this situation when facing twin PHs consistently. Players are forced to turn their backs on the PHs and run/dodge to maintain a safe distance, which renders the PHs' attacks completely invisible. And the approach in vanilla Hard mode fails too. When both PHs are lined up with the player, it's not feasible to safely attack one of them, as the PH further away will quickly move past the closer one and attack the player simultaneously.
I'm mainly talking about melee fight. Ranged fight will encouter similar problems. Enhanced attack speed alone doesn't cause so much trouble, I think.
Is it possible to have 1 or 2 pyramid heads roaming around the city, to make the system of looking at the map and looting more stressful? I don't know if I've said it before, but I think it would be great if that were possible.
I am currently doing my first melee-only run with this mod in Extreme II Plus mode and have just arrived at the Otherworld Hospital. As I mentioned before, this mod is very impressive.
The mannequin at Jack's inn remains invincible before she attacks Maria. This is okay, just a bit weird.
The ban on health drinks significantly reduces the margin for error, encouraging players to find robust strategies to deal with common enemies without taking damage. Fetching the hour band in Bluecreek Apartments and exploring Brookhaven Hospital are much more thrilling compared to the vanilla Hard run.
The improvements to common enemies are also great:
Lying figures' fast headbutts and lunging attacks are much more threatening, requiring immediate dodges after each attack. This is especially true since they may perform double headbutts, double lunging, or a headbutt followed by lunging after being hit.
Mannequins have become more unpredictable. I'm not entirely certain whether there is a 100% safe opening between their attacks, as there is a low probability that they may add a second hit right after an attack, such as two quick left hook counterattacks or a jab/smash/lunge following a jab/long left hook/long right hook/counterattack. However, consistently dodging back and counterattacking usually allows you to defeat a mannequin without being hit.
Pipe nurses are more troublesome now. They still don't have hyperarmor, you can still perform the attacking-being blocked-dodging-attacking cycle. However, for some unknown reason, they may pause for a second before counterattacking with double swings or a single swing from the left side of her waist. I haven't observed this phenomenon in the vanilla Hard mode. This increases the unpredictability. Nonetheless, the differences in the speed of her five attack types have been enhanced in this mod, requiring more precise dodging timing, which is a great improvement.
Regarding the two bosses:
The scissor Pyramid Head in Bluecreek Apartments has a MUCH faster attack speed compared to the vanilla Hard mode. It is still possible to outlive the boss by circling the perimeter and repeatedly dodging forward. However, dodging back won't be sufficient to cover all his attacks in a combo with i-frames. I'm unsure if the same problem will occur during the twin Pyramid Head fight.
I haven't noticed any changes in the Phase 2 fight against Flesh Lip in the version I downloaded. It remains the same: attack once or twice, then dodge. It's very routine.
Phase 1 against Flesh Lip becomes much more tedious for a melee-only run. Due to the boss's EXTREMELY fast attacks, the safest way to bring down the boss is to attack once when it is not swinging, then immediately dodge forward until leaving its attack zone. You may still get hit by doing this after a backstab, which has a longer backswing. Phase 1 took me about 20 minutes (due to bad luck, of course), while Phase 2 took around 1.5 minutes. There is a sharp contrast here.
I’ve noticed that Eddie consistently runs away in Phase 3 and only counterattacks you if you start shooting him. Is this a glitch? I don’t think Phase 3 is like this in vanilla Hard mode.
ive beaten the game on extreme 1 and the final boss seems to impossible to be done without getting hit due to the 4 hit combo, the first two hits just happen way too fast for you to be able to fully dodge (you will get caught into the attack no matter what)
can you bring the ammo count and crosshair back? it makes gameplay more annoying and the option already exists in the game, you dont have to force everyone down this path.
This mod is very impressive! Glad to see a combat-related mod coming so early. I haven't reached the Otherworld Hospital in Extreme mode yet, so I have a question.
To my knowledge, knife nurses have six attack types: 1. Grabbing 2. X-shaped slashes with the ability to turn around and lunge forward in the middle 3. Two quick horizontal slashes 4. A stabbing motion starting from above her right shoulder 5. A slash starting from above her left shoulder 6. Swaying both arms simultaneously Their attack combinations can be quite unpredictable.
In Hard Mode, I find it challenging to defeat a knife nurse in a small room without receiving damage. I mean avoid using guns or stealth. And you're not at the boundary of the nurse's wandering area. Otherwise they tend to retreat frequently and that disturbs their attacking logic.
Considering this, is it possible to engage in melee-only combat against a knife nurse in Extreme mode without taking significant damage?
Thanks, it's going to be VERY hard to melee them in combat without taking lots of damage. It's very helpful to wait till a nurse is twitching or unaware of your presence to go behind them and do a heavy pipe attack. This sends them to the ground instantly.
I actually think the increased attack speed on knife nurses makes them easier to dodge, since you're less likely to dodge too early and catch a swing. However, be extremely careful meleeing since they can instantly superarmor and trade blows. It's better to keep dodging behind them to stop their attack strings and have them turn, but it's still not guaranteed safe punish. Save yourself the headache and heals, and knock them down with the handgun/shotgun
Thank you for your comment. That's precisely what concerns me. I am currently doing my last Hard-All-Melee-Kill-No-Stealth run and haven't experienced much of this mod. Will dodging the mandarins' and wall mannequins' attacks be easier in Extreme mode? Perhaps keeping the slow attack at the same pace would make the combat more engaging?
Personally I don't think the fast and slow attack of knife nurses cause much trouble in hard mode. I suppose this could be due to differences in fighting styles. I follow several rules when meleeing knife nurses: 1. Remain in a wounded state, indicated by the red vignette appearing on the screen. In this situation, the knife nurse may twitch mid-action, creating an opening for attack. 2. Dodging forward to the back of the knife nurse if she won't turn around and perform the second slash of X-shaped slash. Otherwise sprinting and dodging backward to maintain the distance from the knife nurse. This prevents the nurse from hiding her movements behind James due to the inflexible camera. Additionally, this allows for backward dodging to evade the two fast horizontal slashes. 3. When the nurse fails a grab, turns around, or twitches, it creates an opening to attack once. Immediately dodge after the attack. Attacking more than once or failing to dodge immediately may result in being hit by the nurse's quick attacks (swaying both arms simultaneously or performing two horizontal slashes).
I consider this approach to be quite conservative. I may attempt to adapt these rules to see if they can help melee knife nurses in Extreme mode.
If you are doing all melee/no stealth, I highly recommend downloading the v1.0.2 Extreme mod instead. There are many things that the author tweaked, which includes limits on:
Intervals between attacks from a single monster
Intervals between attacks/aggression when aggro'd by 2+ monsters
How often enemies dodge attacks (mostly noticeable with Mannequins)
How often enemies counterattack after being meleed
Aggro range of monsters
v1.1.X compounds this even more by adding movement and attack speed. Mandarins and Spider Mannequins can all be meleed in Extreme IV on current update, but you'll need fast reflexes. I also suggest downloading the mod that disables underground Mandarin screams
Just be aware, there's gonna be a massive difficulty spike when you eventually have to fight twin Pyramid Heads
Idea: create an installer that allows users to pick and choose whichever settings they prefer from all the variables available (weapon damage, healing item potency, etc.) and then extract the correct files chosen to the correct directory (or at the desktop for example, inside a folder named ~Extreme_custom or something, to copy and paste it to the appropriate directory.
I know it's probably hard, but someone may be able to do it?
Not something I plan on doing at the moment. Thanks though. I'd only be able to separate by damage, weapon files, and 1 or 2 ai files since there isnt a big variety is the problem without a full script.
Additional parts of prison are disappearing. All of these can usually be fixed by reloading from a last save. There's been a patch for the game that happened within the past day, maybe it could have something to do with it?
EDIT: I can't load into my game now anymore, I'm certain it's the recent patch that just dropped causing conflict. May be broken along with other mods as well
That's unfortunate. I'll have to run through this prison hopefully if I have time later when I get home. It was fine on Serpent Section and main area for me, but it seems boar may be causing the issue with something there perhaps? I hadn't noticed when testing, but that was pre-patch.
I just rolled back to v1.0.2. Able to load from the prison yard save, and run straight into Boar with no issues. I'm also noticing enemies in the room on the right as you enter Boar when there was previously none on v1.1.x, so there might be something with the mod files breaking there
So Dove section of the prison seems to work fine with v1.1.1... Everything looks good until you drop into the Labyrinth right before Abstract Daddy until you get this
Lol strange bug. A fix is on the way in next few hours. Thanks for the bug reports! Seems AbstractDaddy attack speed is the one breaking the prison and this pit.
94 comments
not loading/crash.
Here is the google spreadsheet that contains an overview of Property values for the mod:
EXTREME V1.1 CHANGES
Note: Even though values are listed here, many things are affected by a value change that you will have to see while playing. Such as an enemy with increased speed also means many changes with how they behave based off their speed such as how far/long an enemy will go after attacking/missing the player.
Here is a showcase Video:
Pyramid Heads:
With Maria, her phase 3 in particular has two separate attack strings that are impossible to dodge consecutively unless you evade at the tip of her range (much easier said than done since she'll constantly try to close the gap while spawning moths).
Again, I know the mod is meant to be difficult and entirely optional. But I really believe increasing attack speed is something that should be avoided, as it can create an escalating power creep of enemies especially without tools to deal with it. Instead of striving to create the most difficult challenge possible where the player is intended to fail, you should be increasing difficulty but still setting people up to succeed. At the very minimum, attack speed needs to be adjusted conservatively to allow players to evade and counterattack consistently. Maybe try doing a 0-8-15% attack speed increase from Extreme I-IV-VII? Or as someone else said, develop a script/GUI that allows us to customize the individual aspects to our liking. Again, movement speed is fine, and I think the other tweaks have made the mod a vastly different experience than vanilla Hard.
Also should mention, I've experienced a bug with Eddie on phase 3 where he will keep running away without ever attacking. Not sure if it's a one time thing, you may want to check on that
Time for me to take a break until more mods come out, and I'll be following this one for sure!
Yeah I definitely already expected enemy attack speed to be a hit or miss with users already lol. I may add one with or without attack speed increase, but keep that just to the optional versions.
I don't plan on making a script/gui currently, i kinda stopped playing this game already lol.
I do plan on readjusting fleshlips (already removed in the latest version), as well as more testing with Pyramidhead and Maria since I now know their files work 100% as opposed to Eddie and abstractdaddy which broke the game :/ I'll do that at some point, but for now, it'll just be separate versions.
Congrats on finishing your playthrough though! Glad you enjoyed most of it, and big thanks to the bug reports to know the game can be played through 100%.
I'm mainly talking about melee fight. Ranged fight will encouter similar problems. Enhanced attack speed alone doesn't cause so much trouble, I think.
The mannequin at Jack's inn remains invincible before she attacks Maria. This is okay, just a bit weird.
The ban on health drinks significantly reduces the margin for error, encouraging players to find robust strategies to deal with common enemies without taking damage. Fetching the hour band in Bluecreek Apartments and exploring Brookhaven Hospital are much more thrilling compared to the vanilla Hard run.
The improvements to common enemies are also great:
Regarding the two bosses:
To my knowledge, knife nurses have six attack types:
1. Grabbing
2. X-shaped slashes with the ability to turn around and lunge forward in the middle
3. Two quick horizontal slashes
4. A stabbing motion starting from above her right shoulder
5. A slash starting from above her left shoulder
6. Swaying both arms simultaneously
Their attack combinations can be quite unpredictable.
In Hard Mode, I find it challenging to defeat a knife nurse in a small room without receiving damage. I mean avoid using guns or stealth. And you're not at the boundary of the nurse's wandering area. Otherwise they tend to retreat frequently and that disturbs their attacking logic.
Considering this, is it possible to engage in melee-only combat against a knife nurse in Extreme mode without taking significant damage?
Personally I don't think the fast and slow attack of knife nurses cause much trouble in hard mode. I suppose this could be due to differences in fighting styles. I follow several rules when meleeing knife nurses:
1. Remain in a wounded state, indicated by the red vignette appearing on the screen. In this situation, the knife nurse may twitch mid-action, creating an opening for attack.
2. Dodging forward to the back of the knife nurse if she won't turn around and perform the second slash of X-shaped slash. Otherwise sprinting and dodging backward to maintain the distance from the knife nurse. This prevents the nurse from hiding her movements behind James due to the inflexible camera. Additionally, this allows for backward dodging to evade the two fast horizontal slashes.
3. When the nurse fails a grab, turns around, or twitches, it creates an opening to attack once. Immediately dodge after the attack. Attacking more than once or failing to dodge immediately may result in being hit by the nurse's quick attacks (swaying both arms simultaneously or performing two horizontal slashes).
I consider this approach to be quite conservative. I may attempt to adapt these rules to see if they can help melee knife nurses in Extreme mode.
v1.1.X compounds this even more by adding movement and attack speed. Mandarins and Spider Mannequins can all be meleed in Extreme IV on current update, but you'll need fast reflexes. I also suggest downloading the mod that disables underground Mandarin screams
Just be aware, there's gonna be a massive difficulty spike when you eventually have to fight twin Pyramid Heads
I know it's probably hard, but someone may be able to do it?
I'd only be able to separate by damage, weapon files, and 1 or 2 ai files since there isnt a big variety is the problem without a full script.
Chapel
Bathroom entrance (barricaded)
Bathroom entrance (Shiv key/crawl space entrance)
Additional parts of prison are disappearing. All of these can usually be fixed by reloading from a last save. There's been a patch for the game that happened within the past day, maybe it could have something to do with it?
EDIT: I can't load into my game now anymore, I'm certain it's the recent patch that just dropped causing conflict. May be broken along with other mods as well
Thanks for letting me know.