No it doesn’t. Actually play the mod rather than making nonsense up.
Enemy gear only has a minor influence on damage. Their skills have a greater influence. Also, the challenge offered by enemies should be equal to the loot they provide. Common bandit loot is capped, so even if they provide a lesser challenge, they also provide lesser loot. Only boss bandit chests contain higher level loot, and they are guarded by—guess what—a boss.
You can't be "right" about this. It's a matter of opinion (to an extent). Your mods made the game too easy IMO and since I know basic math I know that when you take the base damage or armor value of an enemy and lower it by reducing their weapon or armor quality that has an exponential effect on the damage they do or how much damage they take.
The difficulty system in Oblivion is multiplicative. If an enemy does 6x damage in oblivion that means that their steel sword is only doing 6 base damage (1 base damage x 6 difficulty multiplier) vs if they had an ebony sword which does 78 base damage (13 base damage x 6 difficulty multiplier)
As the game progresses, since you have limited bandits to their weaker gear they do exponentially less and less damage to the player as the player's defenses ramp up.
Basically whatever small effect their skills have on their damage it isn't enough to overcome the fact that their weapon or armor's base value is far too low to make a meaningful difference.
There is a reason why the Requiem mod for Skyrim removes leveling entirely from enemies (rather than setting them to a specific level cap and reducing their gear quality) and massively reworks the games difficulty system too. Your mod is an incomplete version of something like Requiem that actually achieves balance as it set out to do.
I didn't set out to make you mad or insult your mod but you clearly believe too highly in yourself. Humility goes a long way brother.
I appreciate that you work hard to make mods but maybe take some criticism of them with grace next time. No one is perfect. Yes, not even you.
Difficulty system: irrelevant point, entirely unrelated to this mod.
You still have failed to address my point that bandit loot is limited, so it makes sense that their difficulty is also limited. You can get as salty as you like, but clearly I’d already considered that point when making the mod and you just didn’t realise. It’s ok, you can just quietly drop the issue.
This mod is not trying to be Requiem. It’s a vanilla-plus mod. If you expected it to be that, then you didn’t read the description and can move along. The fact that you even bring Skyrim into this kind of just tells me that you’re one of those newcomers who doesn’t understand Oblivion or modding very well.
I don't see what game difficulty has to do with modded loot balance on higher tier enemies as well. Seems to me that heatnup just wanted to argue a bit on what he thinks he knows about how the game works.
Just don't use a mod and move on if it's not to your liking, no need to harass the author for it. It's comments like that that made me stop releasing my mods alltogether, got tons of these discussions on a daily basis..
i always love these little additions that make the game more enjoyable imo.
In truth, it's modders like you PushTheWinButton that give other modders a bad name. Specifically because of your attitude towards the people who use your products.
Marcurios I have a feeling you actually quit making mods because you couldn't handle any sort of criticism justified or not.
Oh and with a name like "PushTheWinButton" I am sure your intent was to make it easy to "win" with your mods. Ignoring the truth of what I am saying doesn't make it untrue. The difficulty system IS related to how weak or powerful an enemy is when you limit their strength through the gear which is what your mods do.
If you can't understand that maybe throw in the modding towel. 2x1=2 and 2x4=8 notice how the bigger number multiplied by the difficulty slider = an exponentially bigger number and vice versa? Well your mod makes enemies' armor/weapon value be a smaller number.
And the Requiem reference made sense if you were humble enough to actually read what I had said with an open-mind.
My point was that BECAUSE Requiem does more with the difficulty system it actually works. Either fix your mod, that you claim is balanced to be balanced or remove the lie that it is balanced from the description.
I brought all of this up with the intent to warn other mod users that it ruined my Oblivion experience and you that you should try and fix it and I was instantly met with a condescending attitude from you.
No, it’s users like you that give users a bad name. You have absolutely zero clue what you’re talking about and I’ve left your comments up as an example to other users that you are exactly the kind of person NOT to listen to. You form some incorrect half-baked opinion and then just post it as fact and vehemently defend it even when people point out that you’re wrong.
I can’t help but notice you still haven’t responded with my reply regarding the fact that bandit loot is capped, in accordance with your claim regarding their difficulty. As I inferred in my first reply, I don’t think you’ve paid attention to the actual mod balance and are instead just posting on your incorrect vibe.
what you are asking's akin to basically overhauling the entirety of the game - Oblivion has no economy without completely overhauling it, never did. It did, though, have a reasonable "dungeon crawler" ring to it that used to work, remastered seems to have destroyed that by obliterating loot tables making mods such as this one somewhat necessary (though this one & Ascension do pretty arbitrary changes).
The core problem with Oblivion's that it's a dungeon crawler more than an RPG <> it was a problem since OG and never changed - and the dungeon crawling only improved with Shivering Isles, meaning that it's one of the best things to do right after leaving the prison - and it goes against any degree of RPing. - There's also a significant amount of obligatory tasks we must engage that consists of awful gameplay loops & in practice are worse than the generic MMO fetch questing, the top culprits being all of the "Master Trainer" sub-quests & the narrowed paths for both Fighters' guild and to a much worse extent, mage's guild.
OR is just damned to being shait until we get a gigantic chunk of old Oblivion's mods ported into it, which may likely never happen... Oblivion's basic level modding to fix the game used to be a Load Order that wouldn't surpass 100 mods give or take, but all were crucially necessary and none dealt with graphics. Which's objectively better than Skyrim requiring well over 500 mods to actually fix potato brain Bethesda's incompetent game design. The weird thing is that I had forgotten how trash vanilla Oblivion was, probably my impression got the best of me due to vanilla Skyrim being so much worse...
What on earth are you on about? I don't think you know anywhere near as much about modding or this game as you think you do. Pretty much every sentence here is incorrect.
Hey small feedback; I don't think this was intentional, but I noticed bandit/ marauder "bosses", whom have better gear, never have better headgear or gauntlets; Example being bandit bosses having all elven or mithril armor, but then still wearing a fur helmet. Vampires dont have this problem.
Ringleader inventories are not changed, so that’s vanilla, if it is even a correct observation. Look up what the vanilla ringleader gear is on the UESP.
Removed Glass and Daedric armour and Daedric weapons from boss NPCs. The boss NPC leveled lists are no longer 'leveled', so that their equipment is randomised amongst the available tiers instead of always being the highest level. This means that boss NPCs use higher-tier gear, but not always the same tier.
Would it not be within the scope of this mod to make helmets and gloves be of varying types for boss enemies as well?
Thank you kind sir for creating this mod and sharing it with us, it works perfectly i might add! I was looking into adding ORWO ( https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivionremastered/mods/2207 ) into my modlist, i imagine i would need a patch for that mod and yours to work together? but I dont seem to find one here on the Nexus unfortunately... or perhaps is there any other mod that adds more enemies to the game that is compatible (or patched) with Descension?
Lol, not trying to completely attribute it to the mod. I just can't believe after 15 levels I haven't found a single one! So I was just asking if I was alone lol
I sent you a PM a couple of days ago - just really curious to hear your thoughts. I'd love to know if you think what I suggested is viable or even a good idea. It’s something I’ve been thinking about myself while considering how Oblivion’s loot system could be improved.
P.S. I really appreciate your mods and all the hard work you put into them. :)
291 comments
Then when it is combined with the "Balanced" NPC Leveling mod the issue is only exacerbated.
Enemy gear only has a minor influence on damage. Their skills have a greater influence. Also, the challenge offered by enemies should be equal to the loot they provide. Common bandit loot is capped, so even if they provide a lesser challenge, they also provide lesser loot. Only boss bandit chests contain higher level loot, and they are guarded by—guess what—a boss.
The difficulty system in Oblivion is multiplicative. If an enemy does 6x damage in oblivion that means that their steel sword is only doing 6 base damage (1 base damage x 6 difficulty multiplier) vs if they had an ebony sword which does 78 base damage (13 base damage x 6 difficulty multiplier)
As the game progresses, since you have limited bandits to their weaker gear they do exponentially less and less damage to the player as the player's defenses ramp up.
Basically whatever small effect their skills have on their damage it isn't enough to overcome the fact that their weapon or armor's base value is far too low to make a meaningful difference.
I didn't set out to make you mad or insult your mod but you clearly believe too highly in yourself. Humility goes a long way brother.
I appreciate that you work hard to make mods but maybe take some criticism of them with grace next time. No one is perfect. Yes, not even you.
You still have failed to address my point that bandit loot is limited, so it makes sense that their difficulty is also limited. You can get as salty as you like, but clearly I’d already considered that point when making the mod and you just didn’t realise. It’s ok, you can just quietly drop the issue.
This mod is not trying to be Requiem. It’s a vanilla-plus mod. If you expected it to be that, then you didn’t read the description and can move along. The fact that you even bring Skyrim into this kind of just tells me that you’re one of those newcomers who doesn’t understand Oblivion or modding very well.
Seems to me that heatnup just wanted to argue a bit on what he thinks he knows about how the game works.
Just don't use a mod and move on if it's not to your liking, no need to harass the author for it.
It's comments like that that made me stop releasing my mods alltogether, got tons of these discussions on a daily basis..
i always love these little additions that make the game more enjoyable imo.
Marcurios I have a feeling you actually quit making mods because you couldn't handle any sort of criticism justified or not.
Oh and with a name like "PushTheWinButton" I am sure your intent was to make it easy to "win" with your mods. Ignoring the truth of what I am saying doesn't make it untrue. The difficulty system IS related to how weak or powerful an enemy is when you limit their strength through the gear which is what your mods do.
If you can't understand that maybe throw in the modding towel. 2x1=2 and 2x4=8 notice how the bigger number multiplied by the difficulty slider = an exponentially bigger number and vice versa? Well your mod makes enemies' armor/weapon value be a smaller number.
And the Requiem reference made sense if you were humble enough to actually read what I had said with an open-mind.
My point was that BECAUSE Requiem does more with the difficulty system it actually works. Either fix your mod, that you claim is balanced to be balanced or remove the lie that it is balanced from the description.
I brought all of this up with the intent to warn other mod users that it ruined my Oblivion experience and you that you should try and fix it and I was instantly met with a condescending attitude from you.
I can’t help but notice you still haven’t responded with my reply regarding the fact that bandit loot is capped, in accordance with your claim regarding their difficulty. As I inferred in my first reply, I don’t think you’ve paid attention to the actual mod balance and are instead just posting on your incorrect vibe.
Would you consider some way of reducing the loot percent chance for;
- Arrows
- Torches
- Lockpicks
- Repair Hammers
- Gems
- Gold
There's a real economy imbalance and these things significantly contribute to an unchallenging gameplay.
I never need to buy arrows, or even go into any traders..
Torches should be more rare, you can easily accumulate hundreds...
Lockpicks lose any real value and disincentivies lockpicking because theyre just everywhere.
Spammed Hammers make armor degradation pointless.
Gems boost gold to make the game way too easy.
And Gold is in just about everything....
The core problem with Oblivion's that it's a dungeon crawler more than an RPG <> it was a problem since OG and never changed - and the dungeon crawling only improved with Shivering Isles, meaning that it's one of the best things to do right after leaving the prison - and it goes against any degree of RPing. - There's also a significant amount of obligatory tasks we must engage that consists of awful gameplay loops & in practice are worse than the generic MMO fetch questing, the top culprits being all of the "Master Trainer" sub-quests & the narrowed paths for both Fighters' guild and to a much worse extent, mage's guild.
OR is just damned to being shait until we get a gigantic chunk of old Oblivion's mods ported into it, which may likely never happen... Oblivion's basic level modding to fix the game used to be a Load Order that wouldn't surpass 100 mods give or take, but all were crucially necessary and none dealt with graphics. Which's objectively better than Skyrim requiring well over 500 mods to actually fix potato brain Bethesda's incompetent game design. The weird thing is that I had forgotten how trash vanilla Oblivion was, probably my impression got the best of me due to vanilla Skyrim being so much worse...
Would it not be within the scope of this mod to make helmets and gloves be of varying types for boss enemies as well?
I was looking into adding ORWO ( https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivionremastered/mods/2207 ) into my modlist, i imagine i would need a patch for that mod and yours to work together? but I dont seem to find one here on the Nexus unfortunately... or perhaps is there any other mod that adds more enemies to the game that is compatible (or patched) with Descension?
I sent you a PM a couple of days ago - just really curious to hear your thoughts. I'd love to know if you think what I suggested is viable or even a good idea. It’s something I’ve been thinking about myself while considering how Oblivion’s loot system could be improved.
P.S. I really appreciate your mods and all the hard work you put into them. :)
Would I need to make the same edits in the Hooded Outlaws and Balanced NPC level cap Descension patches?
Weightless Alchemy and Misc. Items