All I see in comment sections is the following, over and over and over, and it's getting to be too much at this point...
OOO?
OCO?
MOO?
Jesus Christ, guys. It's 2025. If you're using some giant overhaul mod, for fucks sake, please realize that it's called an overhaul ... it's overhauling the f*#@ing game. Just assume that it touches everything in the game. If you install a mod that adds a f*#@ing ant to an inconspicuous spot in the Tamriel worldspace - that's right, it will conflict with OOO or MOO in some f*#@ing way.
I was new to modding at one point, myself, as well. I didn't understand anything. But one thing I wish I realized was that if I download an overhaul, surely I can't expect every mod author to be taking these giant overhauls into account every time they publish a simple mod.
If someone makes a sizeable mod that conflicts with something like the Unofficial Patch, this is a situation where it's smart for the author to quickly resolve conflicts. But when someone makes a tiny mod that only deals with one thing (like this mod), it's not really the author's problem to resolve conflicts with giant mods that practically take the fun out of modding. Who the f*#@ was supposed to know that OOO / MOO completely overhauled the ore veigns, as well!? Well, not the mod authors who make specific mods for things which are already in said overhauls, that's for sure!
The point: It's very helpful to point things out in comment sections so other users can be aware, but please.. If you're using some giant overhaul, install any other mod that you want and do one of the following:
1)a) - Assume it will conflict in some way unless the authors have stated otherwise, and use the tools we have available to patch it yourself. If you don't know how, you can ask for help (here or many other places) regarding how to do this. You can also learn more about this using tutorials / tinkering yourself.
1)b) - How do you do this? Open up the overhaul and the other mod in tes4edit, and fully expand the other mod in question. Whatever shows up red might be conflicts that you don't want. Conflicts that you don't want won't always show up in red if the two opposing mods each have unique assets/records which conflict with each other in some way, or if scripts conflict.
2) - If you can't do #1, you can always hope for the best and install it anyway. It might work, it might not. If there is conflicts and you truly crave for them to be resolved, please revisit step 1.
I believe that me saying "Yes" to the author might make them happier than the myriads of posts talking about conflicts with giant mods. As a mod author who deals with this myself, it's safe to say that I think I know what I'm talking about here.
And yes, YungFattin, you have helped others like yourself by posting here. Another thing we appreciate that you did was not demand help in an aggressive way, or demand others to do something. Even if you did, I would still feel the same way about your comment.
Making a comment like yours (and I have many times, believe me) is something I don't do anymore because I just expect giant mods to be incompatible and I simply fix it myself. If I can't fix it myself, I'm sure someone else did. If not, I talk to some people about it. In the end, once you have the know-how, you may find that you're wasting your own time talking about the issue rather than strapping in and attempting to fix it straight away. Once you solve the issue / have an answer, reporting back in the comment section IS very helpful. Perhaps you can even upload the fix yourself.
Now don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to change your life, or make you start learning how to make mods right now. What I'm saying is that your original post on March 14, 2025, 10:14PM is one of MANY that the unfortunate helpful novice is going to make across comment sections. You didn't do anything wrong, and I wasn't trying to attack you with my post - I'm trying to help you / save you some time. I'm personally sick of having my time wasted in the modding scene, and I'm striking back. I don't know about you. How did I strike back? I did it myself and made my own happiness (with the help of other nice people)
There seems to be an issue with OOO because of its function in restoring ore veins.
OOO recently got an UP that handles the ini/link functions as well as fixing some bugs.
With OOO + UP active, this mod has no effect.
When you turn off the "respawning ore veins" in LINK, there is no difference.
When disabling it in the ini, there was still no difference, but also the mesh for the ore vein disappeared.
If you use OOO without the UP (no longer recommended) the mesh is still missing, but this mod functions again, albeit you no longer require the shovel (only the pickaxe)
Unfortunately, I am not familiar with OOO. Can you explain what outcome you want to achieve by combining this mod with OOO?
Normally, when two mods modify the same object, the one that comes later in the load order overwrites the changes from the former one. If all that OOO does is set the respawn flag on the veins from the base game, then you can simply put this mod after it. The changes introduced by this mod are very basic: A script is attached to the veins and the respawn flag is activated.
However, the way you describe it, it sounds like OOO does something more complicated, that possibly involves replacing the veins from the base game entirely. Then this mod will not do anything, once this replacement is in effect.
That is essentially the issue with MOO, which is discussed in the thread below: MOO completely changes the way mining works, and doesn't even use the veins from the base game.
The issue with the shovel is strange. As far as I remember the checks for both the pickaxe and the shovel are controlled by the same script, so if one is working the other should as well. Are you sure you have activated the shovel check in the ini file?
I asked the author of that mod and they figure it would need a patch to make these mods work together, as it would indeed seem they are both trying to do the same thing.
In regards to the shovel, yes i had the option turned on, but that was just one of the permutations i was trying to see if there was a way to make these mods work together as is (whether through LO or other means), nothing worked, you just got different issues each time.
At any rate, thanks for getting back, you series of mods are great, i love how they flesh out the world in immersive ways
Thanks for the feedback. I'll but this on my list of issues to look into. When my core set of mods is complete, I want to get serious about compatibility with other popular mods.
Good afternoon. This is neither a bug nor a complaint, simply an observation. Maskar's Oblivion Overhaul, among many other good things, replaces all the mineable stones with its own versions. The problem is, that basically disables this mod completely. Since Maskar's works almost completely with complicated scripting WAY beyond my feeble skills to understand, as well as loading after (basically) everything else, I'm just going to uninstall this. The Foreman Merchant mod works just fine, so that'll still offer me another way to get my hooves on some of the rarer ores/ingredients. Offered so that other Maskar users are aware of the conflict.
Rochndil, who did a fair bit of testing to make sure...
Hi Rochndil. Yes that makes sense. The new materials are added to the veins from the base game, so any mod that replaces them will not see the changes.
However: The way I did it for this mod, is to create new leveled lists containing all of the materials, and then adding those to the vein containers (GoldRock0x and SilverRock0x). These are very simple changes and should be very easy to replicate for any mod that introduces new ore veins. It's just a few simple edits.
I have never tried MOO or OOO, and am honestly surprised/delighted that any of my mods work with them at all. My understanding is that they change a lot of things. I use Francesco's mod myself, mainly because it is more of an enhancement of the base game than a complete overhaul. I tried to only depend on Cobl and the base game for my mods.
I'll take a look at MOO. Maybe I can provide you with a version of this mod that works with it.
Ok, I'm looking at the MOO esp file right now, and it appears that MOO introduces *a ton* of new vein types, and also its own set of ores and ingots. My mod deals mainly with Cobl materials, which is a separate thing entirely. But if you want to mix the two, I suppose that could be done. Hmm....
Ok, I have now uploaded a MOO edition of this mod. Therein, I mixed my material lists in with the MOO ones. I also tweaked the probabilities a bit, so that the overall yields don't go down too much (my lists make strong use of entries with low drop rates).
MOO introduces a lot of pure veins, that only produce one type of material. In the same spirit as my original version of this mod, these veins now have a main material that they spawn, but can also produce other things.
This is completely untested, as in, I didn't even check whether the game starts properly. I rely on you to give me feadback as to whether this does what it should
Good morning. Looking at this again with a fresh mind, I realized I only added the extra ores, but forgot to actually attach the script that checks for the pickaxe to the veins. I just replaced the MOO version. Hopefully this version works. It needs to be after MOO in the load order.
OK, finally had time to do some testing - and unfortunately it didn't work. Taking a big step back, Maskar ALREADY makes you use a pickaxe for the mining process (you equip a pickaxe and whack at the vein), so adding additional steps requiring one is largely unnecessary. The part you did that worked allowed adding additional random items (via container and LL records) to the base ore spawn contents (they usually start with SOMETHING that doesn't require active mining to extract). Your script, unfortunately, did SOMETHING to totally break Maskar's process, such that you couldn't actually MINE anything anymore. So as an experiment I went in and deleted all your changes to his ore spawns, and removed your script from all the silver/gold spawns (and actually removed your script and quest records entirely). It WORKED (it didn't blow up), but because of the way he scripts the mining process (which I can only follow in general, I'm a writer not a programmer) the ore spawned is based on the ore vein you're whacking with your pickaxe (not pulled from a LL). There is, however, one small exception. In addition to ore, you can also get random drops of lichen, which are based on the region you are in. That draws from a LL keyed to each region, and if you added your rare ore spawns to THOSE lists it should in theory allow a low chance for those ores to spawn during the mining process. It's not ideal because these LLs are keyed to region, not vein type, but it SHOULD allow the process to work the way you intended to within his framework. One such list (there are 14 if I counted right) is: MOOLL0RockHammerfell - which like most of the rest has 5 different lichen spawn possibilities that vary slightly
I'm not sure how much more effort you want to invest in what has become a very divergent rabbithole from your original plans, but if you wanted to make something that works I think this would be a good shot.
Rochndil, with one appointment down and two to go...
Oh well, I guess it was worth a try. I should have known that things would be more complicated than that.
I pulled the MOO edition for now. I'm working on Stations version 1.3 right now. When I get that released, I want to get serious about compatibility with other mods, so I might get back to this problem.
OK, this is weird. I KNOW I posted a carefully-crafted reply earlier today, but it's nowhere to be found. Did I fail to hit "Submit" or something? Who knows. Anyway, there's no need to apologize. You took some of your precious modding time to fiddle with a project that would potentially benefit me, and I sincerely appreciate it. The fact that it didn't quite work does not diminish the valuable effort. I've spent countless hours working on modding projects that ultimately went nowhere. But every time I learn something, and that's worth the effort. I may still fiddle around with the version I butchered (I'm really good at butchering stuff). As it stands, the mod already adds some diversity to the ore/vein containers, and if I can tweak it to add some diversity to the mining process results as well, that would be perfect. I don't normally fool with Leveled Lists, but TES4Edit makes it pretty easy, so hopefully I can manage it without opening random gates to Oblivion or something.
Rochndil, who also needs to finish a tiny clutter reprice mod to merge into his Bashed Patch...
Hi. Thanks for the encouragement. I might take another go at this at some point. As of now, I'm in the last phase of polishing OCRAFT Stations for Sale version 1.3. This will bring a ton of new features.
Welp, I tested the stripped-down version with LLs nested into the lichen/stone Maskar LLs, and...no worky. It's entirely possible I just did it wrong, since I never messed with this particular stuff before. I saved a copy of the ESP just in case, but it's now another "modding learning experience" - on how not to make things work. :)
Rochndil, back to testing everything else, and eventually getting the recipes sorted out...
25 comments
All I see in comment sections is the following, over and over and over, and it's getting to be too much at this point...
Jesus Christ, guys. It's 2025. If you're using some giant overhaul mod, for fucks sake, please realize that it's called an overhaul ... it's overhauling the f*#@ing game. Just assume that it touches everything in the game. If you install a mod that adds a f*#@ing ant to an inconspicuous spot in the Tamriel worldspace - that's right, it will conflict with OOO or MOO in some f*#@ing way.
I was new to modding at one point, myself, as well. I didn't understand anything. But one thing I wish I realized was that if I download an overhaul, surely I can't expect every mod author to be taking these giant overhauls into account every time they publish a simple mod.
If someone makes a sizeable mod that conflicts with something like the Unofficial Patch, this is a situation where it's smart for the author to quickly resolve conflicts. But when someone makes a tiny mod that only deals with one thing (like this mod), it's not really the author's problem to resolve conflicts with giant mods that practically take the fun out of modding. Who the f*#@ was supposed to know that OOO / MOO completely overhauled the ore veigns, as well!? Well, not the mod authors who make specific mods for things which are already in said overhauls, that's for sure!
The point: It's very helpful to point things out in comment sections so other users can be aware, but please.. If you're using some giant overhaul, install any other mod that you want and do one of the following:
1)a) - Assume it will conflict in some way unless the authors have stated otherwise, and use the tools we have available to patch it yourself. If you don't know how, you can ask for help (here or many other places) regarding how to do this. You can also learn more about this using tutorials / tinkering yourself.
1)b) - How do you do this? Open up the overhaul and the other mod in tes4edit, and fully expand the other mod in question. Whatever shows up red might be conflicts that you don't want. Conflicts that you don't want won't always show up in red if the two opposing mods each have unique assets/records which conflict with each other in some way, or if scripts conflict.
2) - If you can't do #1, you can always hope for the best and install it anyway. It might work, it might not. If there is conflicts and you truly crave for them to be resolved, please revisit step 1.
"The point: It's very helpful to point things out in comment sections so other users can be aware"
Could not agree more.
Also where is songlife when you need him.
I believe that me saying "Yes" to the author might make them happier than the myriads of posts talking about conflicts with giant mods. As a mod author who deals with this myself, it's safe to say that I think I know what I'm talking about here.
And yes, YungFattin, you have helped others like yourself by posting here. Another thing we appreciate that you did was not demand help in an aggressive way, or demand others to do something. Even if you did, I would still feel the same way about your comment.
Making a comment like yours (and I have many times, believe me) is something I don't do anymore because I just expect giant mods to be incompatible and I simply fix it myself. If I can't fix it myself, I'm sure someone else did. If not, I talk to some people about it. In the end, once you have the know-how, you may find that you're wasting your own time talking about the issue rather than strapping in and attempting to fix it straight away. Once you solve the issue / have an answer, reporting back in the comment section IS very helpful. Perhaps you can even upload the fix yourself.
Now don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to change your life, or make you start learning how to make mods right now. What I'm saying is that your original post on March 14, 2025, 10:14PM is one of MANY that the unfortunate helpful novice is going to make across comment sections. You didn't do anything wrong, and I wasn't trying to attack you with my post - I'm trying to help you / save you some time. I'm personally sick of having my time wasted in the modding scene, and I'm striking back. I don't know about you. How did I strike back? I did it myself and made my own happiness (with the help of other nice people)
"We need a Brutal Doom version."
"Please, make a BD version!"
"Is this compatible with BD?"
"Please please please, make it run with BD!!"
I'm here to say... "Yes."
"Yes, I found another cool mod that makes sense! Yes, why didn't I think of this before? Simply, Yes."
OOO recently got an UP that handles the ini/link functions as well as fixing some bugs.
With OOO + UP active, this mod has no effect.
When you turn off the "respawning ore veins" in LINK, there is no difference.
When disabling it in the ini, there was still no difference, but also the mesh for the ore vein disappeared.
If you use OOO without the UP (no longer recommended) the mesh is still missing, but this mod functions again, albeit you no longer require the shovel (only the pickaxe)
Normally, when two mods modify the same object, the one that comes later in the load order overwrites the changes from the former one. If all that OOO does is set the respawn flag on the veins from the base game, then you can simply put this mod after it. The changes introduced by this mod are very basic: A script is attached to the veins and the respawn flag is activated.
However, the way you describe it, it sounds like OOO does something more complicated, that possibly involves replacing the veins from the base game entirely. Then this mod will not do anything, once this replacement is in effect.
That is essentially the issue with MOO, which is discussed in the thread below: MOO completely changes the way mining works, and doesn't even use the veins from the base game.
The issue with the shovel is strange. As far as I remember the checks for both the pickaxe and the shovel are controlled by the same script, so if one is working the other should as well. Are you sure you have activated the shovel check in the ini file?
In regards to the shovel, yes i had the option turned on, but that was just one of the permutations i was trying to see if there was a way to make these mods work together as is (whether through LO or other means), nothing worked, you just got different issues each time.
At any rate, thanks for getting back, you series of mods are great, i love how they flesh out the world in immersive ways
Sorry I can't be of more help at this point.
Rochndil, who did a fair bit of testing to make sure...
However: The way I did it for this mod, is to create new leveled lists containing all of the materials, and then adding those to the vein containers (GoldRock0x and SilverRock0x). These are very simple changes and should be very easy to replicate for any mod that introduces new ore veins. It's just a few simple edits.
I have never tried MOO or OOO, and am honestly surprised/delighted that any of my mods work with them at all. My understanding is that they change a lot of things. I use Francesco's mod myself, mainly because it is more of an enhancement of the base game than a complete overhaul. I tried to only depend on Cobl and the base game for my mods.
I'll take a look at MOO. Maybe I can provide you with a version of this mod that works with it.
MOO introduces a lot of pure veins, that only produce one type of material. In the same spirit as my original version of this mod, these veins now have a main material that they spawn, but can also produce other things.
This is completely untested, as in, I didn't even check whether the game starts properly. I rely on you to give me feadback as to whether this does what it should
Rochndil, getting ready to start the three Doctors in three days marathon...for his wife.
Sorry about your wife
I'm not sure how much more effort you want to invest in what has become a very divergent rabbithole from your original plans, but if you wanted to make something that works I think this would be a good shot.
Rochndil, with one appointment down and two to go...
I pulled the MOO edition for now. I'm working on Stations version 1.3 right now. When I get that released, I want to get serious about compatibility with other mods, so I might get back to this problem.
Sorry for not being of more help.
Rochndil, who also needs to finish a tiny clutter reprice mod to merge into his Bashed Patch...
Rochndil, back to testing everything else, and eventually getting the recipes sorted out...