I envy you your LOD :) I use 'TES4LODGen' but my game crashes. I have to use an old version of the 'DistantLOD' to make my mod run again? Any ideas how to deal with this travesty? Edit: I ran the LOD generator again and after swapping the new 'Distant LOD' in an older version I have a LOD I have not had in a very long time. Maybe your energy spreads to my world as well :) Thank you no matter what the reason is.
I forget - You have built up a beautiful Anvil here!
Glad your LOD is fixed after all. And thanks for your kind words!
But to answer your question, I make "curated" LOD. That is, only objects with "Visible When Distant" flag set are included, and not every tiny rock and blade of grass, which is what TES4LODgen does. It is this excessive LOD that crashes the game. Officially, you'd need to use the CS (or CSE) to generate "curated" LOD, but the problem there is that the CS tends to abort the process half way. So I still use TES4LODgen, but I prepare my mod data first. It's all in this mod. And yes, you do have to go through your mod and set those flags where appropriate - that's the whole point!
This is an awesome mod! I have a couple of questions: Could you please tell me if it is safe to unpack the .bsa and remove the xVASynth voices? Also, is your wonderful mod compatible with AFK_Weye and Sewers For Every City?
I'm uncertain how a mod that changes the Anvil Bay would conflict with a Weye mod, unless the latter puts anything in the former that I never noticed. Regardless, I use AFK_Weye along with ABE & Sewers, and I've seen no issues.
I'm afraid to try, but I wonder what would happen if this was installed on top of Better Cities, which already includes the Anvil Bay Expansion. I suppose complete disaster. I'm guessing this is almost certainly not compatible.
If Better Cities incorporates Anvil Bay Expansion, then indeed a disaster is coming! As this is also the basis for this mod. Choose either one or the other.
It's a shame, since this mod easily squashes BC's now-outdated Anvil Docks. I guess it could be done, but it would require using the separate modules of BC instead of the merged, and then not using the Anvil plugin. That would use up way too many slots on BC. Maybe someday Vorians will swap out BC's Anvil Docks Expansion and use this much better version instead.
Correction: BC's merged installer gives the option of not using Anvil city. I assume that includes all the BC stuff in the Anvil Docks. So, no need to go to the separate modules versions of BC. Hypothetically, one could do that and then install this, and see how it works. I'll do that soon.
Edit: I was wrong. Not using any one of the BC cities forces the individual plugins. Not installing Anvil created like 8 new esps for the individual cities instead of the merged one, lol. So that's not gonna work. Ah well. But if someone for some reason is using the separate plugins for BC instead of the merged, then they could probably not use Anvil & use this mod instead.
Considering the other great mods you merged into this one, I'm sure most people would much prefer this over BC's Anvil docks. But the amount of work to do that, I don't know if Vorians would consider it since he has other stuff on plate as the proprietor of several other overhauls such as UL.
For your own personal use, recreate the BC Full ESP merge using TES4Gecko, and exclude BC Anvil (do not merge ADE, keep that as separate a separate plugin).
I never used Gecko, but I might give that a try in the coming days. If I can't do it right, I'll wait til some other BC user who also wants to use this mod does it properly. That'll probably happen sooner or later.
Thanks, Vorians! So it is just a straight merge. I would recommend Merge Plugins though, it is more thorough with checks than Gecko. Also, it doesn't require Java.
It is probably a good idea not to include this mod into the merge just yet, as I anticipate updates.
I'm unsure what you mean by "does it properly" as the merging I just described is the proper way to do it (whether using Gecko or Merge Plugins). Any other modders wanting the same are welcome to merge for their personal use, but are not allowed to share BC ESPs or mergers containing BC ESPs. If you're thinking of a modder producing a compatibility patch, that would be fine to release/share, but quite pointless since a patch would need to strip out around 80% of ADE (see next paragraph).
The only part of the docks from Anvil Docks Extended which isn't already part of Better Cities is the coffee shop, all the rest of the docks in ADE is Anvil Bay Expansion, which is already fully integrated and expanded upon within Better Cities. The other mods included in ADE are not part of the docks, such as the player home island south of the lighthouse, and a couple of dungeons/caves (one of which looks to be inaccessible in ADE due to a large rock blocking the door).
If you want the city part of Better Cities: Anvil, then what you're really after is compatibility between Better Cities and Sirine Island, Maze of Fog, Anvil Mazecave and Dockside Coffee House - assuming any of these conflict with BC, I don't know as I've never heard of any of them before.
If you're happy to exclude BC Anvil then you simply need to merge the other BC city ESPs together to create your own Full ESP - Form IDs in each ESP are already adjusted to ensure no overlap when merging (this can be important sometimes).
Let me just say - I did merge several mods into this one but they are ALL HEAVILY MODIFIED. So if you think that Anvil Bay Expansion as you have it in BC is the same as the Anvil Bay Expansion left over in this mod, you are wrong. I am sure you must have cleaned it and changed it yourself for BC because frankly the original had too many issues. I also added quests, dialogue, I changed interiors, NPC AI, scripting, etc., etc. THIS IS NOT THE SAME MOD! Also, there are no cave entrances blocked by rocks in my mod, you must have something else in your load order that blocks that entrance.
Basically what I'm saying is that although Anvil docks may look similar in BC and in this mod, they are DEFINITELY NOT THE SAME. And this is already not taking into account Sirene island or other things that I added, from mods or my own.
I agree that a patch between BC Anvil and this mod would be impractical when it comes to the docks. You really have to choose either one mod or the other there. Even though the extra structures in the docks are the same, the interiors that they link into are likely different cells, all NPCs, scripts, quests likely have different form IDs and thus are duplicated, etc. I say "likely" because I don't know how those form IDs changed with all the merging done for BC as well as for this mod. It is going to be a mess, for sure. You would have to either strip out most of this mod (because those NPCs and quests link into other things within this mod) or you would have to strip out all of the Anvil Bay Expansion part of Better Cities... Neither of which sounds like a good plan.
However, if you were to extract the bits of BC Anvil that are done to the city itself, you could use that part with this mod without conflicts.
Anvil is the one BC city I wouldn't mind getting rid of entirely to make room for this mod, there's a kind of a slummy section it adds in that I never bother with. All I was afraid of is that BC is so huge, I figured something would get messed up for a Merge Plugins newbie to be redoing the merged file w/o one city. But Vorians says no problem so I'll give it a shot. It's ironic because I just recently spent many hours upgrading every single BC npc in the Anvil docks up to my hard-core way-beyond-OOO standards, and here I am willing to throw it all away for a newer version that I'd rather have. But I'll wait til a new BC comes out before I do it, that seems wiser if you're anywhere near close to updating it.
By the sounds of things, all BC city mods are prepared for merging specifically, so you should not have any issues and merging all the other cities together should be easy. You can always make a new merge when a new version of BC comes out.
If you decide to use my mod and want to re-apply your changes to the NPCs, do it as a patch. This way when I make an update (already in works), you'll just be able to swap it out and your patch will still work with the new version. It is simply going to have more stuff, existing things won't be changed, so it's a straight swap.
Well, I went ahead & did it. Rebuilt BC Full w/o Anvil, added the Anvil Docks Extended to my load order, and while I was at it, added Dungeons of Tamriel Updated, Sewers for Every City, and your patch for the two. To make room I had to get rid of Dark Brotherhood Chronicles & its several patches, but it wasn't a hard choice: that mod has been deleted from Nexus for years, with its author saying a new unflawed version was coming, which never came.
So things look good after a quick check, it's good to go back to vanilla Anvil after years of the BC version. The docks look & sound great, the seagulls are a fantastic touch! There is significantly less content than BC's docks, but your mod adds other stuff like the island and lots of subtle touches, so it evens out, and is more fps friendly. I saw the steaming cups of tea in the coffee shop; that may be since I have Real Tea already installed.
The only drag is, all the npcs from BC's incorporated version of AD Expanded that I painstakingly edited, have lost all my changes. That info was edited in my self-made patch for BC Full, so naturally since those Anvil npcs aren't in my newly merged BC Full anymore, the patch isn't gonna touch them -- but I don't think I can successfully transfer those npcs' edits over to a patch for AD Extended, since it would probably screw up their AI. But if neither you nor BC ever edited them, and they're just stock untouched npcs from AD Expansion, then maybe they're interchangeable between BC & AD Extension. Any idea?
Also there was a big rock in front of the Anvil Sewers. Easy to disable, but it made me wonder about my load order, which is: DoT, SfEC, your patch for the 2, and AB Extended directly above all BC esps. Sound right?
Well, it seems to have gone all right, mostly! Congrats!
Cups of tea are from my mod, yes. The coffee house. And they are just cups of tea, you can take them or put more if you like.
Rock in front of the sewers: there shouldn't be one, but may be I missed something. Please open the console, click on it and tell me its form ID. I'll check. I'm checking dungeons and sewers again because I realised I missed a conflict in the Crumbling Mine.
Which version of Dungeons of Tamriel are you using?
Regarding your NPC patch... I have an idea how to update it to work with the NPCs from my mod, I would do it with xEdit, but I don't know how to explain... If you can send me that file or let me download it from somewhere, I'll do it for you. I did change a lot of NPCs around.
The rock is C40055B4, base ID 0003CFD9, if that helps.
That's a very generous offer about those npcs. I sue would appreciate it if you can figure a way, but don't spend too much time on it; I'm expecting to have to redo them. I'll see if I can send the patch file from here somehow.
@LenaWolfBravil: With just your ESP loaded into the CSE there was a large rock blocking the entrance to a cave placed just south of the lighthouse. No other mod can conflict when only one ESP is loaded.
@Vorians: thanks! This is weird. I'll check, must have been moved by accident.
@songlife: Try sending me a PM, may be you can attach a file to that.
Less content out in the streets than in BC: that sounds about right! I actually prefer the vanilla feel, I don't care for too much clutter. It's a different kind of a city extension. I rather have things tucked away... So, talk to everyone.
The sewer entrance, which I think is put there by Sewers in Every City and possibly moved by the patch, is near the bridge.
I couldn't find a way to attach a file in PM, but it's no big deal, I'll redo those npcs sometime, or make an attempt to patch them over to ADE. I'm hesitant about doing that since it's hard to believe they'd be the exact same untouched npcs from AD Expanded in both your mod & BC.
Edit: I prefer your docks over BC. BC's is absolutely fine, lot of stuff there, but the pirates tend to be everywhere, and I thought it was a bit cluttered with npcs and slows my fps down just a little. BC's Black Flag Tavern is on the other side of the docks from where it is in your mod and a little too crowded at times; mass drunken melees in there CTD sometimes. Anvil is the only BC city like that, other than the Waterfront, that I didn't like. The rest suit me fine. Anyone else who wants to do what I did, I recommend it, I'm very happy with the ADE docks. And so far, no conflicts with Sewers for Every City & BC, but I have a lot more checking to do.
I think BC made a lot of changes to the original Anvil Bay Expansion. The pirates come from there, but they tend to stay on their ships or in the tavern most of the time. They walk around a bit, but it's definitely not overrun by pirates. So yeah, may be BC changes/additions. I mostly kept the original ideas, they just needed fixing to function properly.
Well, think on that patch. If you still want me to have a go, send me a PM and I'll give you my email address. Then you can attach your file. I'm offering this because I know it won't take much time to do at all, but much more time to explain.
Will be reviewing those rocks and sewer entrances again, also what Vorians reported, this should not be happening!
@songlife: About that rock in front of the sewer. You say:
The rock is C40055B4, base ID 0003CFD9, if that helps.
So, this is not a vanilla rock, it comes from the mod with load index C4. Can you please check in your mod manager which mod that is? That's the important bit.
Ok, I located the offending rocks! I swear they were not there last time I looked... Oh well. It's an easy fix. I'm making an addition as well, so will publish a new version tomorrow. You'll have to deal with the offending rocks until then...
Your load order is correct. Anvil comes after the dungeons.
I was thinking it might have to go below BC, but now I think not, since Anvil is no longer a part of my BC. I put it above and everything looked fine to me. I'm still messing around with my setup, having done a lot of mod-swapping lately. You got me back into merging with my new toy Merge Plugins, and I'm having success with that where the CSE mergings previously failed, so I'm creating a few extra load slots.
One q: do you think it's okay to merge Elsweyr's patch into the main Elsweyr file? That patch is so small, it does so little, it seems like it would be a minor risk and it saves a slot.
BTW, I just discovered a funny coincidence. There's a little mod called Colourwheel's Sexy Stormtroopers that adds Star Wars Stormtrooper armor and 2 stranded Stormtroopers on a tiny island just SW of Anvil called "Inactive Star Gate". For a long time some other unknown mod I use screws it up - the npcs are underwater, stuff is floating in the air, a total mess. It's too insignificant to bother diagnosing the problem, since I only want the armor added to my leveled lists; the island is irrelevant. But after installing ADE, I notice it completely wipes out the Star gate; everything from that mod is gone, replaced by a section of the island ADE adds. The Stormtroopers are all that remain. So the problem is fixed, the island is totally fine now, no misplaced remnants of the other mod, which is an amazing. Normally 2 conflicting mods go on top of each other horribly, but ADE just took over completely - leaving only the npcs, and on dry land!
I think it doesn't matter whether you put ADE above BC or below, like you say they shouldn't clash. But I don't have BC (not in my game, that is), so you'll have to experiment.
Regarding Elsweyr: you cannot merge the main Elsweyr Anequina mod with anything because it has errors. Merge Plugins won't let you. In this case I leave it well alone, since so many people played it and had no issues (myself included), so if it ain't broken... you know.
EDIT: So it seems you've got some paratroopers to keep you company on that island... LOL. Let's hope they won't fight with the housekeeper and the gardener.
Working wonderfully. The rock is gone, and the docks have more charm & less clutter as opposed to BC's version. And of course the island you merged in coincidentally fixed my ongoing problem with the Stormtrooper island. And ADE allows me to use Ardah, which is not possible with BC Anvil due to Ardah's ship being in the same spot as BC ship Nostromo. So this is nothing but positive for my game.
Beautiful mod. I've had performance issues in the past with other dock overhauls, but this looks and plays great. The only two mods I currently run that affect the same area are Knightly Orders for Cities and Sewers For Every City, and both are compatible.
Thanks! :) Glad to hear the other two mods are compatible - I haven't got them, so couldn't check.
The original Anvil Bay Expansion had severe performance issues with two heavy scripts running every frame, but doing nothing (must be a left over from a failed experiment). Removing them and optimising some other things gave a huge performance boost in my game.
47 comments
Any ideas how to deal with this travesty?
Edit:
I ran the LOD generator again and after swapping the new 'Distant LOD' in an older version I have a LOD I have not had in a very long time. Maybe your energy spreads to my world as well :) Thank you no matter what the reason is.
I forget - You have built up a beautiful Anvil here!
!::! Fred
But to answer your question, I make "curated" LOD. That is, only objects with "Visible When Distant" flag set are included, and not every tiny rock and blade of grass, which is what TES4LODgen does. It is this excessive LOD that crashes the game. Officially, you'd need to use the CS (or CSE) to generate "curated" LOD, but the problem there is that the CS tends to abort the process half way.
Thank you again.
!::! Fred is back
I don't know AFK_Weye. Compatible with Sewers For Every City.
Edit: I was wrong. Not using any one of the BC cities forces the individual plugins. Not installing Anvil created like 8 new esps for the individual cities instead of the merged one, lol. So that's not gonna work. Ah well. But if someone for some reason is using the separate plugins for BC instead of the merged, then they could probably not use Anvil & use this mod instead.
It is probably a good idea not to include this mod into the merge just yet, as I anticipate updates.
The only part of the docks from Anvil Docks Extended which isn't already part of Better Cities is the coffee shop, all the rest of the docks in ADE is Anvil Bay Expansion, which is already fully integrated and expanded upon within Better Cities. The other mods included in ADE are not part of the docks, such as the player home island south of the lighthouse, and a couple of dungeons/caves (one of which looks to be inaccessible in ADE due to a large rock blocking the door).
If you want the city part of Better Cities: Anvil, then what you're really after is compatibility between Better Cities and Sirine Island, Maze of Fog, Anvil Mazecave and Dockside Coffee House - assuming any of these conflict with BC, I don't know as I've never heard of any of them before.
If you're happy to exclude BC Anvil then you simply need to merge the other BC city ESPs together to create your own Full ESP - Form IDs in each ESP are already adjusted to ensure no overlap when merging (this can be important sometimes).
Basically what I'm saying is that although Anvil docks may look similar in BC and in this mod, they are DEFINITELY NOT THE SAME. And this is already not taking into account Sirene island or other things that I added, from mods or my own.
I agree that a patch between BC Anvil and this mod would be impractical when it comes to the docks. You really have to choose either one mod or the other there. Even though the extra structures in the docks are the same, the interiors that they link into are likely different cells, all NPCs, scripts, quests likely have different form IDs and thus are duplicated, etc. I say "likely" because I don't know how those form IDs changed with all the merging done for BC as well as for this mod. It is going to be a mess, for sure. You would have to either strip out most of this mod (because those NPCs and quests link into other things within this mod) or you would have to strip out all of the Anvil Bay Expansion part of Better Cities... Neither of which sounds like a good plan.
However, if you were to extract the bits of BC Anvil that are done to the city itself, you could use that part with this mod without conflicts.
If you decide to use my mod and want to re-apply your changes to the NPCs, do it as a patch. This way when I make an update (already in works), you'll just be able to swap it out and your patch will still work with the new version. It is simply going to have more stuff, existing things won't be changed, so it's a straight swap.
So things look good after a quick check, it's good to go back to vanilla Anvil after years of the BC version. The docks look & sound great, the seagulls are a fantastic touch! There is significantly less content than BC's docks, but your mod adds other stuff like the island and lots of subtle touches, so it evens out, and is more fps friendly. I saw the steaming cups of tea in the coffee shop; that may be since I have Real Tea already installed.
The only drag is, all the npcs from BC's incorporated version of AD Expanded that I painstakingly edited, have lost all my changes. That info was edited in my self-made patch for BC Full, so naturally since those Anvil npcs aren't in my newly merged BC Full anymore, the patch isn't gonna touch them -- but I don't think I can successfully transfer those npcs' edits over to a patch for AD Extended, since it would probably screw up their AI. But if neither you nor BC ever edited them, and they're just stock untouched npcs from AD Expansion, then maybe they're interchangeable between BC & AD Extension. Any idea?
Also there was a big rock in front of the Anvil Sewers. Easy to disable, but it made me wonder about my load order, which is: DoT, SfEC, your patch for the 2, and AB Extended directly above all BC esps. Sound right?
Cups of tea are from my mod, yes. The coffee house.
Rock in front of the sewers: there shouldn't be one, but may be I missed something. Please open the console, click on it and tell me its form ID. I'll check. I'm checking dungeons and sewers again because I realised I missed a conflict in the Crumbling Mine.
Which version of Dungeons of Tamriel are you using?
Regarding your NPC patch... I have an idea how to update it to work with the NPCs from my mod, I would do it with xEdit, but I don't know how to explain... If you can send me that file or let me download it from somewhere, I'll do it for you. I did change a lot of NPCs around.
That's a very generous offer about those npcs. I sue would appreciate it if you can figure a way, but don't spend too much time on it; I'm expecting to have to redo them. I'll see if I can send the patch file from here somehow.
DoT: 1.2, the latest, patch as well.
@songlife: Try sending me a PM, may be you can attach a file to that.
Less content out in the streets than in BC: that sounds about right! I actually prefer the vanilla feel, I don't care for too much clutter. It's a different kind of a city extension. I rather have things tucked away... So, talk to everyone.
I couldn't find a way to attach a file in PM, but it's no big deal, I'll redo those npcs sometime, or make an attempt to patch them over to ADE. I'm hesitant about doing that since it's hard to believe they'd be the exact same untouched npcs from AD Expanded in both your mod & BC.
Edit: I prefer your docks over BC. BC's is absolutely fine, lot of stuff there, but the pirates tend to be everywhere, and I thought it was a bit cluttered with npcs and slows my fps down just a little. BC's Black Flag Tavern is on the other side of the docks from where it is in your mod and a little too crowded at times; mass drunken melees in there CTD sometimes. Anvil is the only BC city like that, other than the Waterfront, that I didn't like. The rest suit me fine. Anyone else who wants to do what I did, I recommend it, I'm very happy with the ADE docks. And so far, no conflicts with Sewers for Every City & BC, but I have a lot more checking to do.
Well, think on that patch. If you still want me to have a go, send me a PM and I'll give you my email address. Then you can attach your file.
Will be reviewing those rocks and sewer entrances again, also what Vorians reported, this should not be happening!
Your load order is correct. Anvil comes after the dungeons.
One q: do you think it's okay to merge Elsweyr's patch into the main Elsweyr file? That patch is so small, it does so little, it seems like it would be a minor risk and it saves a slot.
BTW, I just discovered a funny coincidence. There's a little mod called Colourwheel's Sexy Stormtroopers that adds Star Wars Stormtrooper armor and 2 stranded Stormtroopers on a tiny island just SW of Anvil called "Inactive Star Gate". For a long time some other unknown mod I use screws it up - the npcs are underwater, stuff is floating in the air, a total mess. It's too insignificant to bother diagnosing the problem, since I only want the armor added to my leveled lists; the island is irrelevant. But after installing ADE, I notice it completely wipes out the Star gate; everything from that mod is gone, replaced by a section of the island ADE adds. The Stormtroopers are all that remain. So the problem is fixed, the island is totally fine now, no misplaced remnants of the other mod, which is an amazing. Normally 2 conflicting mods go on top of each other horribly, but ADE just took over completely - leaving only the npcs, and on dry land!
Regarding Elsweyr: you cannot merge the main Elsweyr Anequina mod with anything because it has errors. Merge Plugins won't let you. In this case I leave it well alone, since so many people played it and had no issues (myself included), so if it ain't broken... you know.
EDIT: So it seems you've got some paratroopers to keep you company on that island... LOL.
Thanks so much for sharing!
The original Anvil Bay Expansion had severe performance issues with two heavy scripts running every frame, but doing nothing (must be a left over from a failed experiment). Removing them and optimising some other things gave a huge performance boost in my game.