I just had a strange experience where Raven Camoran showed up in the Bloated Float, summoned his armor, and was then knocked flat by Hieronymus Lex. I have a number of mods installed so I can't be sure this one was the cause, but I don't think any of the others I have change the AI of vanilla NPCs. Is Raven Camoran affected by this mod?
Fantastic mod, but one thing I am noticing is that most shops are still largely empty. I am definitely seeing way more foot traffic, which is great. I'm just wondering If anyone else is having the same experience. Haven't seen one extra NPC in the Copious Coinpurse yet.
I'm doing some Wrye Bash bug testing, and found the duplication of AI packages annoying when trying to analyse Bashed Patch results, so I decided to change the mod to have UOP as a Master. In doing so, I found something strange about one NPC's AI Package list.
For the NPC Cicero Verus, you haven't added the "UOP2" travel Package, like you've done for other NPCs fixed by the UOP. Intentional or oversight?
Oversight. If I ever do an update I may correct it (but don't count on that, there are no other bug reports & I'm busying myself with Aleid Steps once again). Anyway, thanks for pointing this out.
No. Cicero travels to Cheydinhal and back once in a month; the 'issue' may change that journey's schedule slightly. You wouldn't notice unless you followed him everywhere.
I doubt you'll notice it. Cicero Verus might not extend his visit to Cheydinhal on the 20th of each month past midnight, like he would with the extra UOP package in place, is all. Basically, the UOP split several travel packages in two (or even three in some cases) because the game couldn't handle them crossing midnight. EngineBugFixes should take care of that now though, for anyone not using the UOP for some unfathomable reason.
Do the duplication of Ai packages causes issues? I also added UOP as a master once I saw this mod integrated its own version of UOP additional packages to prevent unneeded duplication.
I have no plans for other cities. They are more like rural towns, where quiet shops are normal. TES4Edit shows many conflicts (NPCs & their package lists) with TIE. I'm not sure what will happen if you run them both. To be safe, assume they are incompatible.
hi Ervvin ! after several sessions with Shop Visitors mod. I think I found an issue in hour 20 to 21 we all know that every shop keeper is going out at once (even without any mods loaded they give tremendous lag) with this mod, the performance is drop drastically during that hour... in my setup I only got 5 fps, it is very hard to move and I think several NPCs is trapped inside the shop after the shop closes. I don't know if this will be trouble or not
Edit: So far I cannot reproduce it. Waited in the Market District from 19.00 to 21.00. Even with the threshhold set to 100% in the ini file, there's no noticeable lag, FPS stays at 30 all the time. I don't know if NPCs are stuck inside shops, but noone has an Ai-package that keeps them there after 20.00. Actually, the majority of the NPCs retires to taverns or outdoor locations after 19.00 hrs. I'm also running MOO (companion-NPCs walking about) and Children of Cyrodiil, so there is plenty of traffic. Timescale set to x10 or x30 makes no difference either. I'll wait to see if other users have similar problems.
woops.. ahh sorry my bad, when testing this mod I forgot to turn off AoG Torch in my setup (so all NPCs bring up torch when in dark) also I run ImpeREAL City mod, so my usual fps in IC Market is around 13~22 (still playable) you're right the fps is NOT affected much but I can confirm that several actors really stuck at some shops because it is locked and they don't have the key~ but I doubt it will cause big issue because you said --> "...verify what they normally do and to be sure I wouldn't interfere with any vanilla quest..." so I think it is safe to assume they are not important... I think
EDIT : after some thoughts I think it will cause trouble if we role play as thief character... because all of that stucked NPCs could report player when we trespassing something like that ? maybe ??
EDIT 2 : I have a suggestion for you, I think the NPCs should be out of shop just before 19 so they not gonna get locked up by shop owners
Ah, I have tried this mod and I'm delighted. I've met a number of NPCs I haven't seen for ages, and man, does the city feel alive! IC is much livelier without spawning a ton of new characters with new AI packages. On my old laptop I haven't noticed any gamebreaking lag (I use a mod that gives actors torches, and extra street vendors, too), so that kind of confirms the FPS issue may lie elsewhere. As for shopkeepers getting locked in, I haven't noticed it either, perhaps because I use the mod called Closing Time that diversifies closing times of various shops (therefore personally I would vote against adding that uniform "out at 7.00 p.m." feature. But I'll investigate this topic a little more. Anyway, great mod that adds a lot of immersion at little cost.
@lubronbrons: Thanks, noted for a possible future update. I already found out how to have them leave at, say, 19.45. If they get stuck in the shops that may be slightly annoying in case they're providing services (several of the NPCs are trainers, for instance).
Related fun fact is that with Shop Visitors and Closing Time (making shop owners not only close but also open their shops at different times) every now and then you can see people waiting outside for the shop to open. Charming.
that diverse Closing Time mod made me happy somehow it solved my IC Market lag problem during shop close hour~ but it seems there's still some NPCs stuck at closed shop
You see? Now not all of them leave at the same time. Beautiful example of mods interoperability. I wouldn't worry much about them being shut off. Some shopkeepers stay to count the day's profits, perhaps?
Nice mod. From my brief testing it sure makes the world seem more alive and believable.
I discovered a potential problem, however. When using a bashed patch, Shop Visitors.esp needs to have the bash tag Actors.AIPackages added, or many of its changes to NPC schedules will be overridden by other mods, at least for my load order. Your changes even get nullified by the UOP by default, for any NPC that the UOP touches, since that has the bash tag and your mod doesn't.
Adding the bash tag helps fix this, but unfortunately it seems to create a new potential problem. Since you added copies of the UOP's new AI packages, with new FormIDs, some NPCs will get duplicates of these AI packages in their package lists in the bashed patch. I guess you did it this way to avoid having to add the UOP as a master?
Whether or not these duplicate AI packages can actually cause problems though, I have no idea. Either way, having the bash tag is probably better than not, or many changes will be lost.
Thank you for pointing this out. Actually, I thought I had it tagged. (Checking right now: yes, the file in my data folder has a tag, but not the .esp in the archive. :/ ) ... OK, I'll reupload the tagged file. Duplicated packages should not cause problems.
Hi again. Sorry to be a bother, but I think the tag still isn't properly applied. I checked with a different browser to make sure that I got a fresh download, and it still isn't there.
Maybe you applied it to your own copy in Wrye Bash, but for it to show up for others I think it needs to be added to the description field in the file header like so: {{BASH: Actors.AIPackages}}.
Right, thanks again... that will teach me to FIRST delete the existing file before uploading the update. *Sigh* Bad omens? Should I withdraw the mod before it crashes 100s of systems? :P
I agree with Vrug, my suggestion is you should replace your current esp description to become something like this, to avoid conflicts this tag below will make auto-detect when WB try build Bashed Patch... also a tip : when you do reupload don't use same version, you should try change it into something like 1.00 rather than 1.0 (because same version Nexus will produce upload bug, still using last upload rather than new upload)
No more deserted shops and lonely merchants in the IC Market District. Most of the Imperial City commoners will regularly visit the various stores, inns and offices, or meet each other near the lighthouse, the stables and the Palace entrance.
41 comments
I'm doing some Wrye Bash bug testing, and found the duplication of AI packages annoying when trying to analyse Bashed Patch results, so I decided to change the mod to have UOP as a Master. In doing so, I found something strange about one NPC's AI Package list.
For the NPC Cicero Verus, you haven't added the "UOP2" travel Package, like you've done for other NPCs fixed by the UOP. Intentional or oversight?
Oh, and I have to say; this mod has become indispensable for me now. I couldn't imagine the Market District without it. :-)
Edit: Ninjad! :-)
I also added UOP as a master once I saw this mod integrated its own version of UOP additional packages to prevent unneeded duplication.
plan to expand this mod in other cities too?
also...
is this mod compatible with TIE mod?
TES4Edit shows many conflicts (NPCs & their package lists) with TIE. I'm not sure what will happen if you run them both. To be safe, assume they are incompatible.
after several sessions with Shop Visitors mod. I think I found an issue
in hour 20 to 21 we all know that every shop keeper is going out at once (even without any mods loaded they give tremendous lag)
with this mod, the performance is drop drastically during that hour... in my setup I only got 5 fps, it is very hard to move
and
I think several NPCs is trapped inside the shop after the shop closes. I don't know if this will be trouble or not
Edit: So far I cannot reproduce it. Waited in the Market District from 19.00 to 21.00. Even with the threshhold set to 100% in the ini file, there's no noticeable lag, FPS stays at 30 all the time. I don't know if NPCs are stuck inside shops, but noone has an Ai-package that keeps them there after 20.00. Actually, the majority of the NPCs retires to taverns or outdoor locations after 19.00 hrs. I'm also running MOO (companion-NPCs walking about) and Children of Cyrodiil, so there is plenty of traffic. Timescale set to x10 or x30 makes no difference either. I'll wait to see if other users have similar problems.
also I run ImpeREAL City mod, so my usual fps in IC Market is around 13~22 (still playable)
you're right
the fps is NOT affected much
but
I can confirm that several actors really stuck at some shops because it is locked and they don't have the key~
but I doubt it will cause big issue because you said --> "...verify what they normally do and to be sure I wouldn't interfere with any vanilla quest..."
so I think it is safe to assume they are not important... I think
EDIT : after some thoughts I think it will cause trouble if we role play as thief character... because all of that stucked NPCs could report player when we trespassing something like that ? maybe ??
EDIT 2 : I have a suggestion for you, I think the NPCs should be out of shop just before 19 so they not gonna get locked up by shop owners
Anyway, great mod that adds a lot of immersion at little cost.
somehow it solved my IC Market lag problem during shop close hour~
but it seems there's still some NPCs stuck at closed shop
Nice mod. From my brief testing it sure makes the world seem more alive and believable.
I discovered a potential problem, however. When using a bashed patch, Shop Visitors.esp needs to have the bash tag Actors.AIPackages added, or many of its changes to NPC schedules will be overridden by other mods, at least for my load order. Your changes even get nullified by the UOP by default, for any NPC that the UOP touches, since that has the bash tag and your mod doesn't.
Adding the bash tag helps fix this, but unfortunately it seems to create a new potential problem. Since you added copies of the UOP's new AI packages, with new FormIDs, some NPCs will get duplicates of these AI packages in their package lists in the bashed patch. I guess you did it this way to avoid having to add the UOP as a master?
Whether or not these duplicate AI packages can actually cause problems though, I have no idea. Either way, having the bash tag is probably better than not, or many changes will be lost.
Duplicated packages should not cause problems.
Maybe you applied it to your own copy in Wrye Bash, but for it to show up for others I think it needs to be added to the description field in the file header like so: {{BASH: Actors.AIPackages}}.
*Sigh* Bad omens? Should I withdraw the mod before it crashes 100s of systems? :P
Edit: uploaded once more.
Aah, Nexus... We love it, but it can be silly sometimes.
my suggestion is you should replace your current esp description to become something like this, to avoid conflicts
this tag below will make auto-detect when WB try build Bashed Patch... also a tip : when you do reupload don't use same version, you should try change it into something like 1.00 rather than 1.0 (because same version Nexus will produce upload bug, still using last upload rather than new upload)