Hey, it was very exciting to see your mod in the Hot Files frontpage and then reading it's description. Having the claimed property's name changed to yours and the possibility to negotiate the property's claim are awesome features, not present in the "Claim That Interior" mod :D
I just wanted to ask:
1) Is it possible for you to make a version of this mod that makes the containers not to respawn so we can safely use any (or at least most of) containers inside the property to store our items, without having to worry about them vanishing because of respawn? That would make things so much more practical, and it would make the claimed property feel more like home =)
2) Is it possible to make the NPCs who have sold their house to the PC through negotiation to go live in the city's available house for sale, so we don't have to live with them? Since I know this might be unfeasible, maybe lower the houses' prices since you are negotiating your stay in the property more as a "roommate" instead of becoming an actual owner? xD
Anyways, real thanks for the mod, being able to claim a property is a must-have in Oblivion!
1. it is possible to make all containers in claimed houses to become safe container, the only solution that I can think off is by using CloneForm syntax. This syntax will increase savegame file ONLY one time per each house per each container. Because syntax SetRespawn is unreliable, every time we load savegame all containers respawn flag will reset to original, that's why I must use syntax CloneForm then DISABLE the original forever and create a new one (Cloned) with same axis position same angle same container type same container size BUT uncheck the respawn flag. how about that? are you sure want all containers can be safe containers by using CloneForm solution? ...also the other problem is it seems NOT all containers is loaded in RAM / memory, so I must create script that can detect all cellspace content before claim script executed.. for simple solution, maybe I should just add new spell that can convert any container to safe container ?
2. hmm... it is possible to make original owner live in other house but I'm not sure, and I do NOT recommend it. It can cause several NPCs AI package go break, may interfere with other mods and create some big conflicts, maybe will break some quests related to certain NPCs, can causing several merchants not function properly so they can't buy/sell anymore, etc etc... it is always dangerous to modify NPC AI packages permanently, I'm pretty sure it will interfere with many things as for house price as "roommate"... I don't know what calculation should I apply with that,,,
I'd suggest the second option, personally. It sounds like it'd be less buggy overall. It also means that if someone isn't going to use all the containers in a house, they can avoid the file size increase. But then you have the problem of possibly losing track of which containers are actually safe in your house...
Perhaps have the NPC pay a rent instead? That way it's possible to eventually make a profit from purchasing houses and adds extra incentive to do so. Probably a cheap rent, like 10-20 gold every few days.
@drayden150 the idea is good, but the implementation is hard... as for now I can't think what is the best way to check every NPCs that need to pay the rent...
@lubronbrons Hey lubrobons, thank you for such a detailed reply! Shows that you are really into your work and it's feedback =)
I see that, regarding my 1st suggestion, you've already made some modifications in your mod so it is addressed, and I gotta say that having a spell so you can actually pick what you want to not be respawnable seems like the most practical idea, thank you for putting that in the mod! I'm still setting up my mods here, but I've already downloaded and installed your new version :D
Regarding my 2nd suggestion, having NPCs AI packages breaking all over the place is what I feared, yeah, and even if they didn't, it's crossed my mind that it would still be hard to set it all up in case the PC wanted to eventually buy the city's house for sale also. I thought it was worth mentioning though xD
So I think it leaves up to two possibilities:
a) * When a house is purchased from a NPC, the deal is that the PC is staying as a roommate, but NPC is still the owner. * In this case, the price could be calculated just as is now, but applying a discount in the result. For example, in your screenshot, as it is now, Rindir's Staffs is priced at 137404G, but with a discount of, let's say, 40% (just a random percentage), it would result in 82442G. Or, instead of paying such a high price straight away, the PC could just pay a rent weekly or monthly for his stay, just like he would pay daily for a nightstand in a Inn. In case he doesn't pay rent on time, the house owner's disposition could lower for a week, and if the PC still hasn't payed, he would be considered a trespasser and the house owner would call the guards.
b) * When a house is purchased from a NPC, the deal is that the PC is becoming the house's owner, but NPC is still going to be living there, as a roommate (that's drayden's idea, this didn't even cross my mind before xD). * In this case, the price would also be calculated with a discount applied, but lower, maybe 20% or 30%. Or, it could be the full price as it is now, and the NPC could pay rent for the PC, as drayden has suggested. Maybe the payment could be done by making the game put a certain amount of gold weekly/monthly in one of the house's container or in the PC's inventory, with a message that could be enabled/disabled in the screen's corner saying "[NPC's name] has payed rent".
These are just ideas, really, which I don't know if could be applied to your mod, but it would be awesome if they could. Just as making the containers non-respawnable, I think addressing the fact that the NPCs would still be living in the same house as you in such a way would make the Greed State (AoG) even more immersive. Sorry for the long text btw, it's just that I see so much potential in it, as Cyrodiil is such a rich land and having properties in it is great. I'd be glad to know what you think!
I am happy to read such words of appreciation, and... as for your ideas... I'm afraid I can't do much about it. hopefully maybe I can think of a way later the problem is I don't know how to : - validate same faction NPCs outside the house when player claim the property (not all ref NPC is loaded into memory) - validation check when several or ALL NPCs is dead in certain faction house, to stop their pay rent function (not all ref NPC is loaded into memory) - differ each house owner, need algorithm that not bloat savegame file
@lubronbrons That is fine, those were just ideas to add more immersion to it, really, but I know how painful it can be to try to attempt translating such things into coding :P If those ideas somewhat happen someday, great! If not, it will still be one of the most complete (if not the one) mods to claim houses for Oblivion.
So, I've just stumbled upon an issue here. After completing "The Siren's Deception" quest, I have noticed that the house Gweden Farm stays unused by any NPCs so it becomes a potential house for the player. Problem is:
1) The house is locked (which can be easily solved by typing "unlock" in console) 2) The house is not-trespassed (as in, the player is not considered to be trespassing when inside, all beds are available for sleeping and you can take any items without getting a bounty). This means that, if you sleep on any of the beds, nothing happens. You do not become the house owner, and it does not get relabeled with your name =(
Is there any workaround for this? I believe there should be other houses in Cyrodiil that go through this same issue (they are perfectly fit to be the player's house, but it's not possible because they are "not-trespassed" houses).
yeah I did use trespassing factor as validation. maybe it is because I thought to avoid conflict, but after using it several times... I think it is safe to remove that trespass validation. but dunno... let me collect some more data regarding this
I'll be looking forward to a version with no trespassing validation if you get to assume that it is safe to go that path, or any other workaround then!
I removed the trespass validation now support throne & chair too, hey Jak, let me know if you found any bugs~ btw Gweden Farm house is owned by faction, unfortunately there is no easy way to claim house owned by faction
This mod needs a slight update. You "purchase" a house, but if the previous owners had "prop" trash lying around, it'll be there forever. It kinda ruins the immersion: why wouldn't your character throw the broken barrels and furniture out? What I'm saying is the mod needs a spell to "disable" certain objects 'on touch'.
You can use To Move Objects along with this mod (I used to use both, don't know if there's a more up to date mod for it). It won't make furniture in the house get rearranged automatically, but it will give you the freedom to do so as you wish for when you get yourself a new home.
Just noticed that the "house rename" function is not being saved :(
When you take ownership of a house, it changes from "[Previous owner's name]'s House]" to "[Your name]'s House", but when you load the game next time, it will be back to being "[Previous owner's name]'s House]".
Some meta-commentary ... Please don't do things like this: "You will NOT find this mod elsewhere, if you found this mod in other sites THAT file is unauthorized & PLEASE tell me ASAP This is just my little contribution for Nexus & the community". Mod sites are dying like flies, and when they do, mods with restrictions like this become dead mods. This in turn has a cascading effect of killing all mods that depend on them. For example, the only reason Morrowind (and thus OpenMW) is still reasonably moddable at all is because mw.modhistory.com (a Great House Fliggerty side site) has managed to archive mods from just before the death of PlanetElderScrolls and some other sites. But it only includes those without redistribution restrictions. Consequently, many mods and entire suites of dependent mods are now lost forever for MW/OpenMW (except for a handful of individuals who downloaded the mods and their dependencies in question back in 2007 or whatever when the original sites were alive, but those people are not permitted by the original mod authors' conditions to provide copies of those mods to anyone else, ever). It's intensely frustrating. Most mod authors for games this old cannot be contacted through ReadMe-published channels. Their e-mail addresses go dead, and they stop logging into forum sites (where they often used different names anyway).
The problem here is that people are thinking of a "community" like Nexus as something that will live forever. It won't. People thought PES would be around indefinitely, and it died quite suddenly, as did a dozen other such sites. The real community is the players of the game, and it will live forever, because even if the OS becomes incompatible (maybe "Windows 11" someday won't be able to run Oblivion, for example), you can still run a compatible OS in a virtual machine. People will still be wanting Oblivion mods (perhaps for a future OpenOB with way better graphics) long after NexusMods.com is a memory.
What I would like to encourage is for mod authors who want to centralize their distribution to include modified conditions, such as: Don't redistribute as long as A) the original site (Nexus in this case) is still operational and serving mods for this game, B) the mod is still available at the site, and C) the author can be contacted within, say, two weeks. This way, if the site and the author are active, distribution remains controlled, but if the site dies, the site deletes a game's mods or a particular mod, or the author goes missing, the distribution is opened up to other archive sites like ModHistory. (I'm an admin there, and I really care; the site is named that for a reason. It's a crying shame when a modder's hard work becomes irrelevant and lost to time because of their own short-sighted redistribution restrictions.)
oh wow.... I never thought such long plan like that, but I get your point.. I think (?) regarding me, yeah... there is history about I did busy in RL and can't be contacted for several months, this happen two times in this last three years of my modding activity maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong BUT in this timeline I think of myself as really active modder, and about permission... you could just asks. who knows you get permission to redistribute the mod. I really like about how Oblivion goes on like this in Nexus and the direction its taking, unlike SSE or FO. them mainstream more like battle field to me, it's horrible and mortifying for many... I've seen a handful of passionate modder fall down there much, very unsightly... They even stated that their works is not got attention something like that, even though they already got plenty ENDORSEMENTs there, some even accumulating Donation... so they changed, they got affected by pressure & trend from community. which is weird, it's not very healthy for mental health and passion for sharing. also the commentary most of them is aggressive groupie or d***head rather than useful constructive criticism person... so... if it really comes to that, then I don't mind... I could just upload my works elsewhere or... let me be a history, really I do Not care much nor I do this for popularity nor charity. I just did this because I think I should give back after I take SO MUCH from here... and also, I want to keep my sanity sane as well~
Oh, I have no doubt some of the other sites have had, and maybe still have (if they're around) less of a community feel to them, and lots of trolls. Have run into a few myself, though I think they concentrate toward the more active, newer games. And I wasn't meaning to criticize. I'm trying to nudge people, to gradually shift, away from an insular site-based approach, and toward a more modern open source project approach, where it's the content and (where requested) the credit that matter, not which URL the same ZIP file was downloaded from. That last bit is the one weak link in the chain of mod continuity and survival.
well my English is not that good I'm not native and don't have much RL friends that talking in that language so..... what's your suggestion with my mod description then. truthfully I am an Open type person, but not that too open (I hate being exploited) then what sentences should I change to be more chain link reaction as you mentioned ?
Well, something like what I said after "What I would like to encourage is for mod authors who want to centralize their distribution to include modified conditions, such as: ..." would work, I suppose. I'm not trying to twist your arm into anything in particular. :-)
I use mod that replace all vanilla NPCs, it's called xeosp++ anyway this mod Greed Estate didn't replace anything at all, only add ability to player to claim or negotiate the houses
hmm... you're right it seems syntax called GetParentCellOwner can cause crash in certain area alright I'll go investigate and hopefully this can be solved
50 comments
I just wanted to ask:
1) Is it possible for you to make a version of this mod that makes the containers not to respawn so we can safely use any (or at least most of) containers inside the property to store our items, without having to worry about them vanishing because of respawn? That would make things so much more practical, and it would make the claimed property feel more like home =)
2) Is it possible to make the NPCs who have sold their house to the PC through negotiation to go live in the city's available house for sale, so we don't have to live with them? Since I know this might be unfeasible, maybe lower the houses' prices since you are negotiating your stay in the property more as a "roommate" instead of becoming an actual owner? xD
Anyways, real thanks for the mod, being able to claim a property is a must-have in Oblivion!
well... here's my answers
1. it is possible to make all containers in claimed houses to become safe container, the only solution that I can think off is by using CloneForm syntax. This syntax will increase savegame file ONLY one time per each house per each container. Because syntax SetRespawn is unreliable, every time we load savegame all containers respawn flag will reset to original, that's why I must use syntax CloneForm then DISABLE the original forever and create a new one (Cloned) with same axis position same angle same container type same container size BUT uncheck the respawn flag. how about that? are you sure want all containers can be safe containers by using CloneForm solution? ...also the other problem is it seems NOT all containers is loaded in RAM / memory, so I must create script that can detect all cellspace content before claim script executed.. for simple solution, maybe I should just add new spell that can convert any container to safe container ?
2. hmm... it is possible to make original owner live in other house but I'm not sure, and I do NOT recommend it. It can cause several NPCs AI package go break, may interfere with other mods and create some big conflicts, maybe will break some quests related to certain NPCs, can causing several merchants not function properly so they can't buy/sell anymore, etc etc... it is always dangerous to modify NPC AI packages permanently, I'm pretty sure it will interfere with many things
as for house price as "roommate"... I don't know what calculation should I apply with that,,,
uploaded new version
- added spell to convert any respawn-able container into safe container (suggest by LostJak.Thx!)
the idea is good, but the implementation is hard... as for now I can't think what is the best way to check every NPCs that need to pay the rent...
Hey lubrobons, thank you for such a detailed reply! Shows that you are really into your work and it's feedback =)
I see that, regarding my 1st suggestion, you've already made some modifications in your mod so it is addressed, and I gotta say that having a spell so you can actually pick what you want to not be respawnable seems like the most practical idea, thank you for putting that in the mod! I'm still setting up my mods here, but I've already downloaded and installed your new version :D
Regarding my 2nd suggestion, having NPCs AI packages breaking all over the place is what I feared, yeah, and even if they didn't, it's crossed my mind that it would still be hard to set it all up in case the PC wanted to eventually buy the city's house for sale also. I thought it was worth mentioning though xD
So I think it leaves up to two possibilities:
a) * When a house is purchased from a NPC, the deal is that the PC is staying as a roommate, but NPC is still the owner. *
In this case, the price could be calculated just as is now, but applying a discount in the result. For example, in your screenshot, as it is now, Rindir's Staffs is priced at 137404G, but with a discount of, let's say, 40% (just a random percentage), it would result in 82442G.
Or, instead of paying such a high price straight away, the PC could just pay a rent weekly or monthly for his stay, just like he would pay daily for a nightstand in a Inn. In case he doesn't pay rent on time, the house owner's disposition could lower for a week, and if the PC still hasn't payed, he would be considered a trespasser and the house owner would call the guards.
b) * When a house is purchased from a NPC, the deal is that the PC is becoming the house's owner, but NPC is still going to be living there, as a roommate (that's drayden's idea, this didn't even cross my mind before xD). *
In this case, the price would also be calculated with a discount applied, but lower, maybe 20% or 30%.
Or, it could be the full price as it is now, and the NPC could pay rent for the PC, as drayden has suggested. Maybe the payment could be done by making the game put a certain amount of gold weekly/monthly in one of the house's container or in the PC's inventory, with a message that could be enabled/disabled in the screen's corner saying "[NPC's name] has payed rent".
These are just ideas, really, which I don't know if could be applied to your mod, but it would be awesome if they could. Just as making the containers non-respawnable, I think addressing the fact that the NPCs would still be living in the same house as you in such a way would make the Greed State (AoG) even more immersive. Sorry for the long text btw, it's just that I see so much potential in it, as Cyrodiil is such a rich land and having properties in it is great. I'd be glad to know what you think!
and...
as for your ideas... I'm afraid I can't do much about it. hopefully maybe I can think of a way later
the problem is I don't know how to :
- validate same faction NPCs outside the house when player claim the property (not all ref NPC is loaded into memory)
- validation check when several or ALL NPCs is dead in certain faction house, to stop their pay rent function (not all ref NPC is loaded into memory)
- differ each house owner, need algorithm that not bloat savegame file
So, I've just stumbled upon an issue here. After completing "The Siren's Deception" quest, I have noticed that the house Gweden Farm stays unused by any NPCs so it becomes a potential house for the player. Problem is:
1) The house is locked (which can be easily solved by typing "unlock" in console)
2) The house is not-trespassed (as in, the player is not considered to be trespassing when inside, all beds are available for sleeping and you can take any items without getting a bounty). This means that, if you sleep on any of the beds, nothing happens. You do not become the house owner, and it does not get relabeled with your name =(
Is there any workaround for this? I believe there should be other houses in Cyrodiil that go through this same issue (they are perfectly fit to be the player's house, but it's not possible because they are "not-trespassed" houses).
but after using it several times... I think it is safe to remove that trespass validation. but dunno... let me collect some more data regarding this
I'll be looking forward to a version with no trespassing validation if you get to assume that it is safe to go that path, or any other workaround then!
hey Jak, let me know if you found any bugs~
btw
Gweden Farm house is owned by faction, unfortunately there is no easy way to claim house owned by faction
Any chance you could add an option in an .ini file to purchase important properties with enough gold? i.e. Mages Guild halls, Nine Divine's chapels.
the reason I made this mod can't buy any BIG faction property (have multiple ranks) is to avoid conflicts...
(You'll most likely still need to use the SetOwnership command afterward on each individual door, item and container though)
Happy New Year!
When you take ownership of a house, it changes from "[Previous owner's name]'s House]" to "[Your name]'s House", but when you load the game next time, it will be back to being "[Previous owner's name]'s House]".
This is just my little contribution for Nexus & the community". Mod sites are dying like flies, and when they do, mods with restrictions like this become dead mods. This in turn has a cascading effect of killing all mods that depend on them. For example, the only reason Morrowind (and thus OpenMW) is still reasonably moddable at all is because mw.modhistory.com (a Great House Fliggerty side site) has managed to archive mods from just before the death of PlanetElderScrolls and some other sites. But it only includes those without redistribution restrictions. Consequently, many mods and entire suites of dependent mods are now lost forever for MW/OpenMW (except for a handful of individuals who downloaded the mods and their dependencies in question back in 2007 or whatever when the original sites were alive, but those people are not permitted by the original mod authors' conditions to provide copies of those mods to anyone else, ever). It's intensely frustrating. Most mod authors for games this old cannot be contacted through ReadMe-published channels. Their e-mail addresses go dead, and they stop logging into forum sites (where they often used different names anyway).
The problem here is that people are thinking of a "community" like Nexus as something that will live forever. It won't. People thought PES would be around indefinitely, and it died quite suddenly, as did a dozen other such sites. The real community is the players of the game, and it will live forever, because even if the OS becomes incompatible (maybe "Windows 11" someday won't be able to run Oblivion, for example), you can still run a compatible OS in a virtual machine. People will still be wanting Oblivion mods (perhaps for a future OpenOB with way better graphics) long after NexusMods.com is a memory.
What I would like to encourage is for mod authors who want to centralize their distribution to include modified conditions, such as: Don't redistribute as long as A) the original site (Nexus in this case) is still operational and serving mods for this game, B) the mod is still available at the site, and C) the author can be contacted within, say, two weeks. This way, if the site and the author are active, distribution remains controlled, but if the site dies, the site deletes a game's mods or a particular mod, or the author goes missing, the distribution is opened up to other archive sites like ModHistory. (I'm an admin there, and I really care; the site is named that for a reason. It's a crying shame when a modder's hard work becomes irrelevant and lost to time because of their own short-sighted redistribution restrictions.)
but I get your point.. I think (?)
regarding me,
yeah... there is history about I did busy in RL and can't be contacted for several months, this happen two times in this last three years of my modding activity
maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong
BUT
in this timeline I think of myself as really active modder, and about permission...
you could just asks. who knows you get permission to redistribute the mod.
I really like about how Oblivion goes on like this in Nexus and the direction its taking, unlike SSE or FO. them mainstream more like battle field to me, it's horrible and mortifying for many... I've seen a handful of passionate modder fall down there much, very unsightly... They even stated that their works is not got attention something like that, even though they already got plenty ENDORSEMENTs there, some even accumulating Donation... so they changed, they got affected by pressure & trend from community. which is weird, it's not very healthy for mental health and passion for sharing.
also the commentary most of them is aggressive groupie or d***head rather than useful constructive criticism person...
so...
if it really comes to that, then I don't mind... I could just upload my works elsewhere or... let me be a history,
really I do Not care much nor I do this for popularity nor charity.
I just did this because I think I should give back after I take SO MUCH from here... and also, I want to keep my sanity sane as well~
so.....
what's your suggestion with my mod description then. truthfully I am an Open type person, but not that too open (I hate being exploited)
then what sentences should I change to be more chain link reaction as you mentioned ?
anyway
this mod Greed Estate didn't replace anything at all, only add ability to player to claim or negotiate the houses
where did you cast it ? I want to reproduce the crash myself by go to that certain cell location
it seems syntax called GetParentCellOwner can cause crash in certain area
alright I'll go investigate and hopefully this can be solved