Edit: This is not quite balanced I think. When I'm above level 20, all the wolves and imps just ran away from me and some of their variants from mod too. This just made me king of the jungle after level 20 lol
Is there a way to make NPCs keep fleeing? Or leave the cell and disapear? Maybe I've a mod conflict because NPCs that yeild run away for a few feet then just stand around. It's a bit odd.
Yes i am wondering that too. Why can the NPCs not stay around after they have yielded? What about npcs in cities, if you steal from them or something, and they start a fight, are they killed and disabled as well?
Since back to when I used kuertee's original version 0.73 I have always changed "set kNPCsYieldQuest.killAndDisable to 1" to "set kNPCsYieldQuest.killAndDisable to 0" (meaning the script doesn't automatically remove NPCs that have yielded from the game once my character has moved away from the cell they are in).
No, it's not recommended by kuertee, and yes I believe sometimes I get crashes resulting from those NPCs when I later re-enter the cell they were in when they yielded (more on that later), but I like having those defeated bandits etc sticking around.
Sometimes they will continue with the flee behaviour once they've spotted my guy when he comes back, other times (if their health wasn't depleted too far when they first yielded ... or maybe my guy buffed them up a bit with restore health before leaving them the first time) they are right grumpy about the way I left them weaponless and armorless and want another piece of my guy. All part of one of my "Striker's mini-games".
I also discovered that if you get their disposition up high enough (for those that yield but do not flee) you can sort of "befriend" them. I use a mod that allows me to recruit NPCs as followers (Fuffy Follower Frill) and so I'll take them to one of my houses (a side benefit that FFF gives is you can get them into cities ... something that is impossible with using console commands alone). I learned that they will stay in whatever cell you leave them in if you disable them to prevent them from leaving temporarily (my current method is to reduce their fatigue to below zero by a good margin), leave the cell you left them in and save. Exit the game, load that save and re-enter their new home cell and restore their fatigue. They will now consider that cell as their editor location and all of their AI packages will execute in that new spot.
Bandits (excluding bandit wizards and archers) and marauders have sleep packages and will sleep in the vanilla home beds (or mod added home's beds, providing they are unowned beds ... ie not flagged as owned by the player). They make far superior "window dressing" for your home than CM Partners (in other words they won't completely trash your home with "combat training").
I keep quite a few in some of my houses, and occasionally will get a crash when entering the house with these befriended NPCs residing, but I don't think that those crashes are related to my INI tweaks, but simply a matter of having so many NPCs in one cell (I also have pretty well all bandits, marauders, conjurers and necromancers Blockheaded with new bodies and body textures). I use a utility that displays my video card memory usage in my LogiTech keyboard display, and when I see it getting up over 1000 to 1200 MB a crash on cell change is likely.
So how advisable is all this? Depends to a large part on what compromises you are willing to make and live with.
To answer the second part of your question kallekuhuve, this mod only affects NPCs that do not have a name (those that are generated from a levelled list, like bandits, marauders, conjurers and necromancers). You won't see yielding behaviour from this mod with NPCs in cities ... though those who have fairly low confidence will flee when their health gets low (and usually the guards will be relentless in following them if they were on the "wrong side" of the law in that fight).
- Edit - Answering quite a bit late for Caprinus' original question, but better late than never ...
In the vanilla game all NPCs generated from a levelled list (such as bandit, marauders etc) will disappear when the cell that they are in resets (default is once 72 hours has passed and the player approaches that cell, loading it back into the game's memory).
I use shadeMe's SPAWN (with a tweaked INI) to control how long it takes for different types of cells to reset. Player owned cells (like the vanilla houses ... though not all mod added houses are marked by default as player owned) are given a very long time before cell reset, plus I switch the INI to use vanilla behaviour when the player re-enters those cells (so the timer is reset once the player leaves). This allows me to avoid losing my "window dressing" befriended bandits etc in those cells (Ayleid ruins are another of my "holding cell" spots that get the SPAWN.ini tweaks).
Striker879 Yes! Thank you for that companion link! I have been looking for that mod for ages and i couldn't find it. Hmm...well it would have been nice if normal named npcs yielded as well, for immersion sake. Honestly i havent checked out the scripts yet, but i cannot imagine that changing that would be hard. But then comes the question again: why does it lead to crashes if they are still around after yielding? Are they being cloned before they yield so they add bloat if they stay around? Because if they are removed anyway at the cell reset it shouldn't be a problem right?
I'm not a scripter, so I could be way off on this, but it seems to me with how the game reacts just before those types of crashes that it may be that the script/game gets balled into a knot when it's deciding the current status for the NPC (should he flee/be aggresive again ... that sort of thing). I don't believe there is any cloning or bloating going on (well beyond what is self inflicted by my "mini-games" ... I have literally hundreds of NPCs stashed in houses and Aylied ruins around Cyrodiil).
Named NPCs will flee when their health gets low if they don't have very high Confidence assigned to them. They just don't get picked up by the script for this mod's dialogues.
Thanks for the reply. I don't get a notification if someone replies to posts, so by luck i looked at this mod again and thought if i hadn't commented here before. But then it's not a problem really, if it doesn't do anything to named npcs. Maybe add a script line comparing the current cell of the player and the npc and remove the flee package if the player has moved away.
http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1152670-wac-news/?p=23688121 Long story short: there is WAC & kuertee npc yield related crash on swim way from Waterfront to wayshrine of Dibella. As well at around the epicenter of the wayshrine. Crash happens randomly at the epicenter. Here is the map http://imgur.com/AWuPrus I tried to turn off creature settings in ini but CTD isn't solved by that.
Setting:
set kNPCsYieldQuest.creaturesFlee to 0
set kNPCsYieldQuest.creaturesMoreCautious to 0
those two creature settings to zero really solved the CTD. No more CTD for me when going to Dibell wayshrine. I suspect the crash occured because WAC spawns imperial-man eater tigers and white lions near the wayshrine. Imperial-man easters have some kind of build in fleeing behavior that conflicts with kuerteeNPCsYield.
Hey, Like the mod, but I have a suggestion that I have been trying to get out for a while now. Would it be possible to add a dialogue option to tie up the NPCs, causing them to be bound to that position until you leave. The idea behind this option would be for roleplayers who would want to "Notify the authorities", who would presumably come and bring the NPCs to prison later.
For the idle animation of an NPC tied up, there are a couple mods that have such animations and they are open resources (such as http://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/41668/? ), so conceivably this is possible. Would you be willing to try this?
Hm, unfortunately there's no kill cam in Oblivion. So the easiest solution I can think of is adding a line "Now you die!" which has the same result as "Get out of here!" - the NPCs starts running, but now for his life. With some more tinkering I could probably add a chance that the NPC fights back. Would this be a satisfying solution?
Maybe make a NPC use kneeling idle animation and automatically lower their health to 1 hit point, that way you can step behind/in front of him and execute him with a battle axe. Vows and Covenants is only esp plugin mod with ini file and has mercy and diplomacy mod (both mods made by the same modder) merged where NPCs kneel when they surrender. So the idle kneeling animation must be from the vanilla Oblivion. It'd also be more immerisve to have NPCs fight back or run away when you choose option to execute them like you said. But some NPCs should also accept the fate of being executed or beg for mercy but you can still execute them anyway. Having the bandit saying "Akatosh have mercy on my soul for the crimes I have committed" would be blowing high immersive and then you execute him with a battle axe.
Link to mod Vows and Covenants http://oblivion.nexusmods.com/mods/20736//?
zelazko, I thank you for your feedback. The link to Vows and Covenants was very helpful. In the update to come a chance that the NPC will accept his fate and kneel is already implemented. There's also a chance a NPC will just cower in fear and despair. Unfortunately the chance that the NPC will fight back in a last deperate attempt to safe his or her life gives me headaches. If I don't find a way around this problem within the next two weeks I'll release the update just with the kneeling and cowering chance. Probably with an INI switch for those who don't want to be tempted. There's also the question which penalty should be given a player who executes a NPC. Ah, there's much to do.. Stay tuned.
/// I haven't tested mod thoroughly yet but do the NPC has to actually surrender himself (no action/pressing keys from the player required) for dialogue option "now you die" appear? I had a vampire npc fleeing and managed to catch her. The only two dialogue options were "get out of here" and "give me...".
I assume that NPC has to surrender himself for execution to be possible? I am just making sure.
The "Get out of here", "Give me.." and "Now you die!" topics should always appear together (if not disabled in the INI). But after testing it a bit more it seems the topic "Now you die!" won't always show up Hard to say what's causing this. I'll look into it. Please give feedback if the "Now you die!" topic is always missing or just rarely.
Tried some things, didn't help, out of ideas I probably blew up the script a bit too much and now the script engine is sometimes overburdened and doesn't get the topic in time. For me it helps in most cases to exit dialogue and enter it again. If you like, see it as a hint of destiny that you probably shouldn't kill that NPC and that it deserves a second chance even if it is a vampire
Yes reentering the dialogue seems to bring back the option "now you die".
If I reenter the dialogue again with the same npc "now you die" option may not appear so I have to try again. I tested this on one npc by resurrecting him many times. Also I would add timer for the fleeing behavior for those who don't use Maskar Oblivion Overhaul.
Also executing the bandits seems to increase murder count which IMO shouldn't.
Don't worry about the current problems your mod rocks.
Also I dunno if this is bug or whatever but fleeing NPCs seem to drop their armor which is kinda immersive.
Fleeing NPCs drop their armor? That sounds really cool, but it's nothing I implemented Just had a look concerning the increasing murder count you reported. It doesn't happen in my game. I guess it's due to another mod. I think I've seen mods that make it count as murder if you attack somebody who isn't attacking you. But hey, if you are prosecutor, judge and executioner in one person and your name isn't Judge Dread, this probably should count as murder
Ever since I activated Vows and Covenants in my load order NPCs yield mod stopped working :C Other culprit can be Maskar Oblivion Overhaul version 3_7_1 There are the only mods I recently added/upgraded. NPCs yield worked fine with Maskars OO 3_7 MOO has fleeing feature. I tried to disable it but it doesn't do anything.
zelazko, good to hear that Vows and Covenants works alongside NPCs Yield. I was already worried I broke something in the current version.
Concerning the fleeing, do you mean after chosing the "Now you die!" conversation option? The NPC reaction chances are hard coded in the script due to the way reactions to conversations work and can't be changed in the INI. Currently 15% of all NPCs should flee after "Now you die!". I could make an optional download available with a higher chance. Any suggestions? Perhaps, 50% try to flee and the other 50% accept their fate and kneel down or cower in fear?
What about making the NPC's remaining health affect whether or not they have a high chance of fleeing or not (e.g <=10% remaining health they have 15% chance of fleeing and >10% remaining health they have a 30% chance of fleeing)?
I opened a feedback and discussion thread in the forum. Better to discuss tweaks and improvements there: http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?showtopic=1229639
Give Feedback
48 comments
Edit: This is not quite balanced I think. When I'm above level 20, all the wolves and imps just ran away from me and some of their variants from mod too. This just made me king of the jungle after level 20 lol
Great mod good work!
No, it's not recommended by kuertee, and yes I believe sometimes I get crashes resulting from those NPCs when I later re-enter the cell they were in when they yielded (more on that later), but I like having those defeated bandits etc sticking around.
Sometimes they will continue with the flee behaviour once they've spotted my guy when he comes back, other times (if their health wasn't depleted too far when they first yielded ... or maybe my guy buffed them up a bit with restore health before leaving them the first time) they are right grumpy about the way I left them weaponless and armorless and want another piece of my guy. All part of one of my "Striker's mini-games".
I also discovered that if you get their disposition up high enough (for those that yield but do not flee) you can sort of "befriend" them. I use a mod that allows me to recruit NPCs as followers (Fuffy Follower Frill) and so I'll take them to one of my houses (a side benefit that FFF gives is you can get them into cities ... something that is impossible with using console commands alone). I learned that they will stay in whatever cell you leave them in if you disable them to prevent them from leaving temporarily (my current method is to reduce their fatigue to below zero by a good margin), leave the cell you left them in and save. Exit the game, load that save and re-enter their new home cell and restore their fatigue. They will now consider that cell as their editor location and all of their AI packages will execute in that new spot.
Bandits (excluding bandit wizards and archers) and marauders have sleep packages and will sleep in the vanilla home beds (or mod added home's beds, providing they are unowned beds ... ie not flagged as owned by the player). They make far superior "window dressing" for your home than CM Partners (in other words they won't completely trash your home with "combat training").
I keep quite a few in some of my houses, and occasionally will get a crash when entering the house with these befriended NPCs residing, but I don't think that those crashes are related to my INI tweaks, but simply a matter of having so many NPCs in one cell (I also have pretty well all bandits, marauders, conjurers and necromancers Blockheaded with new bodies and body textures). I use a utility that displays my video card memory usage in my LogiTech keyboard display, and when I see it getting up over 1000 to 1200 MB a crash on cell change is likely.
So how advisable is all this? Depends to a large part on what compromises you are willing to make and live with.
To answer the second part of your question kallekuhuve, this mod only affects NPCs that do not have a name (those that are generated from a levelled list, like bandits, marauders, conjurers and necromancers). You won't see yielding behaviour from this mod with NPCs in cities ... though those who have fairly low confidence will flee when their health gets low (and usually the guards will be relentless in following them if they were on the "wrong side" of the law in that fight).
- Edit - Answering quite a bit late for Caprinus' original question, but better late than never ...
In the vanilla game all NPCs generated from a levelled list (such as bandit, marauders etc) will disappear when the cell that they are in resets (default is once 72 hours has passed and the player approaches that cell, loading it back into the game's memory).
I use shadeMe's SPAWN (with a tweaked INI) to control how long it takes for different types of cells to reset. Player owned cells (like the vanilla houses ... though not all mod added houses are marked by default as player owned) are given a very long time before cell reset, plus I switch the INI to use vanilla behaviour when the player re-enters those cells (so the timer is reset once the player leaves). This allows me to avoid losing my "window dressing" befriended bandits etc in those cells (Ayleid ruins are another of my "holding cell" spots that get the SPAWN.ini tweaks).
Hmm...well it would have been nice if normal named npcs yielded as well, for immersion sake. Honestly i havent checked out the scripts yet, but i cannot imagine that changing that would be hard.
But then comes the question again: why does it lead to crashes if they are still around after yielding? Are they being cloned before they yield so they add bloat if they stay around? Because if they are removed anyway at the cell reset it shouldn't be a problem right?
Named NPCs will flee when their health gets low if they don't have very high Confidence assigned to them. They just don't get picked up by the script for this mod's dialogues.
But then it's not a problem really, if it doesn't do anything to named npcs. Maybe add a script line comparing the current cell of the player and the npc and remove the flee package if the player has moved away.
Long story short: there is WAC & kuertee npc yield related crash on swim way from Waterfront to wayshrine of Dibella. As well at around the epicenter of the wayshrine. Crash happens randomly at the epicenter. Here is the map http://imgur.com/AWuPrus
I tried to turn off creature settings in ini but CTD isn't solved by that.
Setting:
set kNPCsYieldQuest.creaturesFlee to 0
set kNPCsYieldQuest.creaturesMoreCautious to 0
those two creature settings to zero really solved the CTD. No more CTD for me when going to Dibell wayshrine. I suspect the crash occured because WAC spawns imperial-man eater tigers and white lions near the wayshrine. Imperial-man easters have some kind of build in fleeing behavior that conflicts with kuerteeNPCsYield.
For the idle animation of an NPC tied up, there are a couple mods that have such animations and they are open resources (such as http://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/41668/? ), so conceivably this is possible. Would you be willing to try this?
Thanks for your time
Vows and Covenants is only esp plugin mod with ini file and has mercy and diplomacy mod (both mods made by the same modder) merged where NPCs kneel when they surrender. So the idle kneeling animation must be from the vanilla Oblivion.
It'd also be more immerisve to have NPCs fight back or run away when you choose option to execute them like you said. But some NPCs should also accept the fate of being executed or beg for mercy but you can still execute them anyway. Having the bandit saying "Akatosh have mercy on my soul for the crimes I have committed" would be blowing high immersive and then you execute him with a battle axe.
Link to mod Vows and Covenants
http://oblivion.nexusmods.com/mods/20736//?
Stay tuned.
///
I haven't tested mod thoroughly yet but do the NPC has to actually surrender himself (no action/pressing keys from the player required) for dialogue option "now you die" appear? I had a vampire npc fleeing and managed to catch her. The only two dialogue options were "get out of here" and "give me...".
I assume that NPC has to surrender himself for execution to be possible? I am just making sure.
I probably blew up the script a bit too much and now the script engine is sometimes overburdened and doesn't get the topic in time.
For me it helps in most cases to exit dialogue and enter it again. If you like, see it as a hint of destiny that you probably shouldn't kill that NPC and that it deserves a second chance even if it is a vampire
If I reenter the dialogue again with the same npc "now you die" option may not appear so I have to try again. I tested this on one npc by resurrecting him many times. Also I would add timer for the fleeing behavior for those who don't use Maskar Oblivion Overhaul.
Also executing the bandits seems to increase murder count which IMO shouldn't.
Don't worry about the current problems your mod rocks.
Also I dunno if this is bug or whatever but fleeing NPCs seem to drop their armor which is kinda immersive.
Just had a look concerning the increasing murder count you reported. It doesn't happen in my game. I guess it's due to another mod. I think I've seen mods that make it count as murder if you attack somebody who isn't attacking you.
But hey, if you are prosecutor, judge and executioner in one person and your name isn't Judge Dread, this probably should count as murder
Other culprit can be Maskar Oblivion Overhaul version 3_7_1
There are the only mods I recently added/upgraded.
NPCs yield worked fine with Maskars OO 3_7
MOO has fleeing feature. I tried to disable it but it doesn't do anything.
I downgraded Maskars Oblivion Overhaul from 3.7.1 to 3.7 and now NPCs Yield is working again! Hurray!
Btw how do I set up NPCs fleeing more often? They rarely flee.
Concerning the fleeing, do you mean after chosing the "Now you die!" conversation option? The NPC reaction chances are hard coded in the script due to the way reactions to conversations work and can't be changed in the INI. Currently 15% of all NPCs should flee after "Now you die!". I could make an optional download available with a higher chance. Any suggestions? Perhaps, 50% try to flee and the other 50% accept their fate and kneel down or cower in fear?
I opened a feedback and discussion thread in the forum. Better to discuss tweaks and improvements there:
http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?showtopic=1229639
What's the ENB you're using in the screenshot?
http://oblivion.nexusmods.com/mods/44146//?