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SDR - Series 9 Thread (185 comments)

  1. saebel
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    Use this thread to report bugs, make feature requests, and generally discuss any issue regarding SDR Series 9. When reporting bugs, remember to include which version you are using. Note: The new Bethsoft Forums are obnoxious, so I will only be using this forum for all SDR related issues moving forward.

    STATUS: Series 9 is officially released.

    My to do list is as follows:
    - Update the on-line documentation : 58 out of 60 sections finalized : http://sdr.saebel.net
    - Update OBME for SDR plugin to use new system
    - Follow up on remaining bugs that have been reported
  2. saebel
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    Performance Report Update - Harsh Reality. I did my best and went through everything, trying to be as efficient as possible, switching back to the token technique. Making sure everything was working correctly, and no script was firing unless necessary. I did it with an extremely heavy mod load, including all the graphics. See below for the full list.

    Interiors there were no performance problems, which is to be expected because of the smaller area and low population density. Exteriors were another problem altogether. Ultimately I found myself standing at the gates of Chorrol, and I did three different "measurements" with the same load game:
    Without SDR active in any way shape or form: 32-35 fps
    With SDR installed, but using only the Oblivion detection formula and suppressing SDR formula related scripts, features, and calculations: 22-25 fps
    With SDR installed and everything turned on, using SDR's detection formula and all scripts running: 13-15 fps
    NOTE: I did *not* have any of the performance enhancers installed like streamline, more heap, oblivion stutter remover, or the LLA4GB memory booster

    So there you have it. Ultimately, SDR is just too heavy and complicated a mod to provide a benefit for folks who have heavy load orders. For those wondering why the beta version was smooth, it's probably because it was broken and a bunch of things that were supposed to be calculating/firing weren't.

    My options are:
    1. Upload the latest version and just let it be what it is, knowing that folks won't use it if they have a packed load order.
    2. Pack it in all together and just not make the mod available.
    3. Revamp the mod by pruning way back on the features that are probably having the most impact, as well as simplifying the SDR detection formula.

    Of the three options, I don't have a lot of spare time to work on number 3, so odds are that could be many, many months away.

    My load order used for testing:

    Active Mod Files:
    Spoiler:  
    Show

    1. jordan0422
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      I've been following SDR since 2012 I think, so waiting a bit more is no issue. I think the Oblivion engine is the limiting factor here. So I think option 3 is the way to go since you've been at this for a while. I think you can finish it and work around the game engine's limitations by scaling back features.
  3. saebel
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    Performance report:

    Hi all, I finally had some time to to pack in a heavy load order and test out Oblivion with and without SDR activated. My load order consists of:
    Active Mod Files:
    Spoiler:  
    Show


    Not listed above are a variety of texture replacers, including AmpolX, Darooz, and others, but not QTP (yet).

    I ran around in Open Cities Reborn's version of Chorral, which has a fairly high population density, lots of objects, graphics, etc. I found that the FPS difference between the game with SDR active vs. without was about a 10 FPS drop. Without SDR, my game was running around 35 FPS, give or take. With SDR, it seemed to mostly be around 25, but would occasionally rise up to 30 or drop down to around 20.

    I have a theory as to why that's happening. In past versions of SDR, I used a "token" system for updating actors and having them do things. I was turned on to a completely different approach that involved having an array that queued active actors and which scripts needed to be called when. I'd never tried it before, and the person who gave me the tip had suggested that the performance of SDR would improve with it.

    Now I'm not so sure.

    When I have some time, I going to try an alternate version that goes back to the token method and see if there is a performance improvement. I am also going to try it with the SDR detection formula disabled to see how much of a factor that is. It could be one, the other, or both.
    1. jordan0422
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      Thanks for the performance report. I've been following SDR for a long time and will continue to monitor its progress. I finally had to remove it due to the FPS spikes, even with most of the detection features turned off. Keep on doing the great work and thanks for continuing with it.
  4. iodizedsalt
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    So after trying this for a while I was able to determine it was this mod that was destroying my fps. With this mod enabled my game stutters a lot and hovers around 15 to 30 fps. With it off my fps is normal considering the other mods and textures I use.

    I hope the performance issues can be worked out.
    1. saebel
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      Understandable. If you provide me with your mod load order, it would be helpful. That way I can recreate the scenarios and pinpoint which parts of SDR are causing the lag.
  5. jordan0422
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    First off, congrats on the new release. I read through the documentation/guide and, wow, that's quite a lot of great stuff.
    I'm not quite ready to take the full jump into SDR with my current mod list and PC specs, but there are some features that would be great in my current playthrough. These are
    1) the Nighteye shader (I couldn't get any other Nighteye shaders to work with Oblivion Reloaded besides yours, OR 6.5.0 crashes with the Night Eye Switcher by Scanti)
    2) the new Sneak perks
    3) the revamped movement system

    Everything else, I don't want to want to quite get into yet until I upgrade my system. I try to disable the following in the "SDR Game Setting Tweaks.ini".

    SetNumericGameSetting iSDRsDDLSActivate 0
    SetNumericGameSetting iSDRsBlindnessActivate 0
    SetNumericGameSetting iSDRsDeafnessActivate 0
    SetNumericGameSetting iSDRsMuffleActivate 0
    SetNumericGameSetting iSDRsInstallSpellIcons 0
    SetNumericGameSetting iSDRsDetectionSystem 0 ; this should turn off the whole detection system, but performance still not so good
    SetNumericGameSetting iSDRsAltSneakSkillUpSystem 0; {1} 1=SDR, 0=Oblivion
    SetNumericGameSetting iSDRsAltAssnSkillUpSystem 0; {1}, 0 disables

    SetNumericGameSetting iSDRsPerkSneakAttackMultOpt 0; {1}, Obv: 0

    SetNumericGameSetting iSDRsMovementRevamped 1; {1}, 0 disables.

    SetNumericGameSetting iSDRsNightEyeInnate 2 ; {1} 0=none, 1=ability, 2=power

    SetNumericGameSetting iSDRsSMCHActivate 0 ; {1}, 0 disables

    SetNumericGameSetting iSDRsProjectileTracker 0 ; {1}, 0 disables

    SetNumericGameSetting iSDRsFadeSneakPlayer 0; {1}, 0 disables
    SetNumericGameSetting iSDRsFadeSneakNPCs 0; {1}, 0 disables

    SetNumericGameSetting iSDRsReactFreshKillAlertCheckTimerMax 0 ; {60}, 0 disables
    SetNumericGameSetting iSDRsReactFreshKillOnAlertTimerMax 0 ; {60}

    SetNumericGameSetting iSDRsAIAudioTargetInCombatBonus 0; {25}, 0 negates
    SetNumericGameSetting iSDRsAIAudioTalkPenalty 0; {20}, 0 = disables
    SetNumericGameSetting iSDRsOnAttackedOption 0; {3}, 0 disables, 1=fixed, 2=Int Check Opt A, 3=Int Check Opt B
    SetNumericGameSetting iSDRsDetMagicActivate 0; {1}, 0 disables
    SetNumericGameSetting iSDRsSummonsMimicSummoner 0; {1}, 0 disables

    Performance is still not so good even with those options disable. Hopefully I'm not missing anything else.
    1. saebel
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      Hmm. Most likely the performance issues have to do with the scripts that are constantly updating the various custom actor values of the actors. Even though you aren't using SDR's formula, if you are in a high population density area and have low end hardware, you could still have problems.
      I don't mind taking a look and seeing if I can't make the system more efficient, but I need more information.
      1. Description of what your performance issues are, including what your fps rate is and the location you are experiencing the problem.
      2. Your full load order, and list of mods installed so I can (hopefully) recreate it.
      3. If possible, links to a Oblivion/OBSE save game.

      I am assuming that if you disable SDR.esp the performance issues go away, right?
    2. jordan0422
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      After turning off and tuning down some graphical features in OR and uninstalling Better Cities and a bunch of other mods (All Natural, Unique Landscapes, etc.), my FPS improved. Before adjusting my load order, the FPS spikes up and down depending on the number of NPCs around (especially in IC Market District and Waterfront), where I get anywhere from 15-20 FPS. Now, I use OR to have the FPS hover around 30.
      I disabled SDR for one of the load order, and it helps with the performance, but not overwhelmingly so. I think I just have to be more careful with what mods I should use for my load order.
      Anyways, thanks for the explanation about the actor values being constantly updating. That makes sense.
  6. ianfreddie07
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    Huzzah for a new SDR version!

    I can't quite tell how much better it is from the last beta, but the features and detection formula seems to be working fine. I can't quite put it into words unless I play more, but it feels smoother and more natural. Just need to figure out the best mix and match for mods (on one save I could murder anyone without incurring bounties, that's with SDR + Hear No Evil + Crime Has Witnesses + SM Regional Bounty with no psychic guards off, but the next save doesn't have that).

    Thanks for your continuous work on this, I'll give this more playtesting over the weekend.
    1. saebel
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      Um, yeah. With that combination, you could easily get away with murdering anyone. Yeesh!
  7. DaylenTheMaleficar
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    Spoiler:  
    Show

     
    I set CustomEffects 1, SaveSettings 1, EnableNightEye 1, CompileShaders 1, CompileEffects 1 in the OR ini and the game loaded into the menu and desplayed a message box that said I had dynamic night-eye enabled but didn't have the OR ini setting, that it had fixed it and I needed to restart oblivion. So, I checked the OR ini and it had a new line under enablenighteye which reads "NightEye=1". The game loads normally now, but after I've loaded a save there's a momentary pause where all seems fine and then the game crashes.
    1. saebel
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      Which version of Oblivion Reloaded are you running? The one I have is the latest (6.5.0), and EnableNightEye is not one of the .ini variables. And I believe you need version 6.4.0 at the minimum for the dynamic night-eye shaders to work.
      http://tesreloaded.com/thread/2/package
    2. DaylenTheMaleficar
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      Oh, wow. Somehow I got my hands on 6.2. Reinstalling the correct version now.
    3. DaylenTheMaleficar
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      Everything's up and running flawlessly. Thanks for all the help, you've really earned that endorsement!
  8. iodizedsalt
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    The update seems to have fixed the speed damage issues for me. Can't wait to try this out properly.
  9. saebel
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    New release candidate is up. Version 9.001. Changes are as follows:

    Installer Package

    Split up 00 Core sub-package into 00 OBSE and 01 ESM ESP sub-packages.
    Renamed "01 Worldspace" sub-packages to be "02 Worldspace" sub-packages.
    Added new "03 Detection Formula Override Examples" optional sub-package.
    Updated the installer wizard to adjust for the above changes.
    Changed the default behavior of the Auto-Wizard to *not* install any of the three .ini files if they already exist so that they would not be automatically overwritten.

    Updated online documentation for the following sections:

    Technical Support: Debugging
    Technical Support: Performance Issues
    Modder's Guide: Internal Game Settings
    Modder's Guide: External Game Settings
    Modder's Guide: Extended Functionality

    sdr.dll

    Updated the "Toggle Detection Stats" overwrite to display which detection formula is being used (Oblivion, SDR, or Custom Script) as well as the original detection value.
    Fixed error with sdrModCAVsNum OBSE function where it was returning the amount by which the value was to be modified and not the new modified value.
    Updated the sdrGetHeight OBSE function to return -1 if there was an error instead of a default height of 72.

    SDR.esm

    Fixed the sdrCAVsRemoveRefData function script so that it only removes the CAVs for a specific group ID for the calling ref, rather than all CAVs for the calling ref.

    SDR.esp

    Fixed issue with Speed values not being restored after actor stops running backwards.

    1. saebel
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      NOTE: For those of you that had Speed damage issues, this update will hopefully restore your Speed. If not, you can clean your stats by running the following quest in the console: StartQuest sdrQCleanStats
  10. DaylenTheMaleficar
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    I don't understand why, but when I enable dynamic night eye for OR, my game crashes after it has loaded into the main menu.
     
     
     
    Edit: Okay, now that I've had the time, I've actually played this mod for a very short time and I have some concerns.
     
    First, and most pressing, is the speed damage mentioned by salt above. I have only played up to the rats crashing through the wall in the initial prison escape and there is NO WAY that any of those enemies are using poison. I've also discovered that this damage cannot be restored by any means. Not by restoration, dispel or cures will my speed go back up. However, this is not the only mod I installed before this bug came about, the others being Cobl, Reneers Guard Overhaul, A Brotherhood Renewed, The Well of Minlorada, The Ayleid Steps, OBSE -Elys- Universal Silent Voice, JaySuS Blades Volume 2, Sephs True Acrobatics, Sephs Hand to Hand Animation Replacer, Initial Glow Redux.
     
    Excluding animations and such, that leaves us with Cobl, Reneers Guard Overhaul, A Brotherhood Renewed, The Well of Minlorada and The Ayleid Steps as potential suspects. However, I did not read anything about taking speed damage with every hit in any of these mods' descriptions, so I believe that this might somehow be some strange incompatibility between one of these mods and/or possibly yours.
     
     
    Now, to get to my questions regarding this mod specifically, is night eye supposed to be black and white? I've disabled iSDRsDNESActivate to prevent the crash I experienced and thought it would revert to blue but it's remained the weird b/w and I don't really like it.
     
     
     
     
    Edit 2: Just disabled your mod and the speed damage did not happen. I'll start testing with some of the other mods disabled and see if it's an incompatibility.
    1. saebel
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      If the night eye is completely black and white, that implies the variables are not being passed properly from the sdrNightEye.ini in the Oblivion Reloaded night-eye shader folder. If you deactivated the night eye effect without uninstalling the supporting files or disabling the Night-Eye shader option in the Oblivion Reloaded.ini, then the b&w effect is what you would get. If, however, everything *is* active, and you are still getting the b&w effect, then something is wrong. I'm not experiencing it myself.

      Edit: The Speed damage is being caused by the Running Backwards option. Working on it.

      Edit 2: found the problem, fixed it. Will be in the next release.
    2. saebel
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      Also, forgot to respond to your first point about the game crashing. Oblivion Reloaded is a delicate flower.
      - Oblivion Reloaded needs to be installed first, and then SDR installed second.
      - The SDR packages for Night-Eye/Oblivion Reloaded need to be installed.
      - Oblivion Reloaded's .ini file needs to have the night-eye shader option set to 1.
      There might also be some Oblivion.ini issues happening as well. Those are tricky to resolve.

      I know for sure on my end that the dynamic night-eye shader works with the files and settings I've supplied. There may be more to it from Oblivion Reloaded's side of things that I'm not aware of because of my particular hardware set up. If you figure it out, let me know, and I can add it to the trouble shooting documentation. I will add it as a reported bug.
  11. iodizedsalt
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    Just tried out the mod and I have a question. Is it intended for the player to have speed damaged after getting hit?
    1. saebel
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      This mod does not alter any traits or statistics in any way. So if you got your Speed damaged, it was probably by a poisoned weapon.

      Edit: I was wrong. The speed damage is being caused by the running backwards option. I am working on it.

      Edit 2: found the problem, fixed it. Will be in the next release.
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