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SDR - Series 9 Thread (223 comments)

  1. saebel
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    Use this thread to report bugs, make feature requests, and generally discuss any issue regarding SDR Series 9. When reporting bugs, remember to include which version you are using. Note: The new Bethsoft Forums are obnoxious, so I will only be using this forum for all SDR related issues moving forward.

    STATUS: Series 9 is officially released.

    My to do list is as follows:
    - Update OBME for SDR plugin to use new system
    - Follow up on remaining bugs that have been reported
    - Create a "light" version that has less performance impact.
  2. The Black Ninja
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    Compatibility with Basic physical activities? This seems to have a sprint key that is set to the V key I think? I use Basic Physical Activities and not sure but when I installed this mod I keep walking every time i go into a menu and exit it and I have to press the always run key (F) to run again. Really bothersome because I always want to be running.

    EDIT: Yep, disabling the movement feature fixed it... also that feature slows down the character, which Basic Physical Activities already does. Don't know why it's included in a mod that's supposed to be about sneaking, but if it included slower movement uphill/faster downhill then I wouldn't need BPA at all. Except the sprinting key for this wasn't working for some reason, weirdly. Also the default for the movement section was 3? Which is odd because it doesn't say anything about that in the readme.
    1. saebel
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      SDR isn't just about sneaking. It's also about detection, of which sneaking is one part of the equation.

      I explain my reasoning for overhauling movement in that section. My movement system is designed to be more realistic, so you can only run for as long as you meet certain fatigue thresholds. Basically, you won't be able to "always run" until your physical attributes and athletic skills get high enough to compensate for the fatigue drain.

      I'm not surprised you ran into a conflict with Basic Physical Activities. Makes total sense there would be overlap. You will have to pick one or the other.

      Not sure why the sprint key wouldn't work, unless there was another mod overriding/conflicting with it. Either that or you didn't have enough fatigue available to sprint.

      Not sure what you mean by the default for the movement section was 3. Perhaps I made an error that I'm unaware of. Can you clarify for me when you have time?
    2. The Black Ninja
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      Well in the ini... the "iSDRsMovementRevamped" was set to 3... but I assumed it would just be 1 or 0. But anyway, there were some features I couldn't figure out how to disable such as going transparent when sneaking, and enemies randomly being invisible, so I've just disabled the mod for now.
    3. saebel
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      Okay. I will check the defaults/docs.

      Transparency when sneaking is under the sneaking settings "Fade When Sneaking"
    4. The Black Ninja
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      Was it intentional for NPCs to be invisible seemingly randomly, without having any invisibility spells? Maybe it's bug or conflict on my end.
    5. saebel
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      They should not be randomly invisible if they aren't casting spells/have magical effects. The only way that would happen with SDR is if you have "NPCs fade while sneaking" turned on and they are sneaking up on you and you can't detect them. If they suddenly stop sneaking, they will "pop" into existence.

      One other possibility is if you are in third person camera mode, and they are behind you in such a manner that they would normally be out of your peripheral vision. Although I'm not sure that feature is still in effect, because last I checked, the "alpha" checker is only looking for sneaking or Chameleon. But it was a feature in previous versions.

      The only other time folks are invisible is during the Alsewell quest, although that has nothing to do with SDR directly.

      Unless other people complain about the same issue, it's probably caused by another mod in one way or anothet.
  3. xarxyc
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    Greetings. I might need a little help, even though I am sure it's going to be a dumb question.
    I set iSDRsPerkSneakAttackMultOpt to 2 in sdr.ini (extending settings) but my crits are still like in vanilla on high sneaking levels.
    What might be the problem?

    Edit. Fixed that. it's sad I cannot delete post.
    Edit 2. I have to say a huuuuuuge thanks for your mod. It's truly amazing. And because of it I tried Oblivion Reloaded for the first time. That thing is a blast. Can't believe I never used it before.
    Edit 3. Game now crashes on wait. God damn it.
    1. saebel
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      Re: game crashing. Not sure why that's happening. I tried waiting a few times, and mine doesn't crash.

      I would suggest trying to wait with SDR deactivated or uninstalled. If it still crashes, then it's being caused by another mod.
    2. xarxyc
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      Tried already. Crash is caused by SDR.
      I did fresh reinstall. Still crashes. What should be turned on or off in OblivionReload.ini? So far while reading comments and website I turned on NightEye = 1 CompileShaders = 1 CompileEffects = 1 CustomEffects = 1. No changes to sdr.ini or Game Tweaks ini.

      Edit 1.Sometimes, without doing anything, SDR just doesn't work on save loading. Fixes with restart but a bit annoying.
      Edit 2. I have read that subtitles and music are turned off while deafened. However, in my case they are turned off in settings no matter what. Is it supposed to be like that or I need to change something in ini?
      Edit 3. Somewhat fixed waiting crashes. subtitles are still getting turned off when I load save. Music changes half of the times.
    3. saebel
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      It can't be just SDR that's causing the problem. I'm running it just fine with Oblivion Reloaded. No crashes on waiting, ever.

      Here's my OblivionReloaded.ini file settings that are relevant to SDR:
      CustomEffects = 1
      SaveSettings = 0 (you may want to try switching this to 1)
      NightEye =1
      CompileShaders = 0
      CompileEffects = 0

      Which plugin are you using for sound/deafness effects? Sound Commands or Enhanced Music Control 2?

      Could be another mod or plugin that is turning off the subtitles. I would suggest comparing the sdr.ini and the sdr_default.ini. Go to the very bottom of both, and see if there is a difference. If so, copy over the default values to the SDR.ini. Should be these values:
      [OblivionIni]
      ; Oblivion.ini values: GamePlay
      bDisableDynamicCrosshair=0
      bCrossHair=1
      fHealthBarHeight=4.0000
      fHealthBarWidth=40.0000
      bGeneralSubtitles=0
      bDialogueSubtitles=1
      ; Oblivion.ini values: Audio
      fPlayerFootVolume=0.9000

      Hope that helps.
    4. xarxyc
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      Enhanced Music Control 2. Values in Ini file are all the same you wrote. With SDR music works fine.

      Edit. Well, lack of music is tolerable and I can turn on subtitles in settings manually. However, after I managed to make all mod's features work properly game performance dropped significantly. Whenever there are more than 4 human npc in location (except open world), I get less than 20 fps.

      Unfortunately, I have to stop using SDR. I remember you mentioning making light version in future. I shall wait for it.
    5. saebel
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      It's probably not just 4 NPCs, that's not enough to cause a performance drop. If you read the Performance section in the SDR guide, it will give you a really good idea of what causes performance issues. Even without SDR you can overload your system with too many mods that add objects, graphics, NPCe, and Creatures. But if you throw SDR in on top of that, the FPS will suck, usually in exterior locations because of the high number of NPCs/Creatures within active range. Interiors are usually much better performance wise.
    6. xarxyc
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      I have stable 60 fps without SDR everywhere.
      With SDR it's okay in the wild and unplayable in crowded places like cities.
      But thanks for advice, I will take a closer look at Performance section.
  4. th3toadd
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    With iSDRsDetectionSystem=1 I'm getting 15-20 FPS in and around the major cities.(skingrad outskirts and going towards skingrads front gate is the worst, 15 or lower here.)
    iSDRsDetectionSystem=0 my FPS will be 45+ in the Skingrad outskirts area
    Depending on the area I'm in by setting the detectionsystem=0 my FPS doubles or triples. I'm sure it's because of better cities and UL

    I have tried disabling :
    SM Combat Hide for SDR feature
    SDR's Projectile Tracking feature
    SDR's Recent Kill Alert feature
    SDR's Alternate Sneak Skill up feature
    SDR's Revamped Movement feature

    as recommended in the SDR readme, but this made a negligible difference compared to just setting the detection system to 0.

    I also tried
    SetNumericGameSetting iSDRsDetectMinFPS 28
    SetNumericGameSetting iSDRsDetectMaxFPS 40
    But it didn't have any effect, if my FPS was under 28 it just stayed under 28 and it was well below that in certain areas.

    These FPS tests are on a new save game, just made my character in alternate beginnings picked Skingrad since its the laggiest city for me, even worse than IC.
    I have a GTX 1080 / i7 4790k @ 4.0ghz / running OB on SSD / plenty of ram and the 4gb patch.

    Also curious, with detection set to 0 does this mean your version of reneers mod wont be working at all?

    edit: Load order
    Spoiler:  
    Show

    1. saebel
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      Thanks for the feedback on performance. I'm not too surprised. It's going to take me awhile to pin down which parts are causing the most lag.

      I haven't checked, but I don't think detection set to 0 impacts my RGO rewrite. Other than telling SDR which RGO guard is following the player, it just updates and cleans up the scripting of the mod. So it should be fine.
    2. Baphomet10247928
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      1. Thank you for this nice mod
      2. Have you tried the RuntimeScriptProfiler (RuST) from Shademe https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/41863 in combination with the Tes4Edit - Log Analyzer (gives information about scripts with FormID, Name, Frames Executed and Total time, ms)
      With this tools you can find mods in your load order with time- consuming scripts and optimize the ini-settings or the mod scripts.
    3. saebel
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      Yes, I am well aware of RuSt. And even built a database to import and analyze the data (long ago). I just haven't had time to dig in to it.
  5. GBRPluss
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    Hi Saebel, I find strange thing in new SDR. As you know I use own detect formula without SDR's esp-esm.

    So, when I attack some NPC's, go to jail & come back NPC's are in alert state, after waiting they are still in alert.
    I go to sdr.ini & disable iSDRsOnAttackedOption && iSDRsSMCHActivate

    Now after starting new game everything is ok.
    1. saebel
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      I honestly have no idea why that would happen, especially with you disabling SDR.esm, SDR.esp, and using your own formula. Changing those settings shouldn't matter. Maybe there is another mod causing it?
    2. GBRPluss
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      No, I check this before write a post. I test SDR on base compilation, it have only UOP, harvest flora & some other small fixes made by me like water-land optimization, etc. No NPC gameplay changes.

      Just try.
      Go to Skingrad castle, start a fight, go to jail. Than come back, you will see that some NPC stay in alert stance.

      P.S. I find another bug, but need to understand why is happen, will write when find out.
    3. saebel
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      I'm not doubting what you observed happened. I just don't see how SDR can possibly be responsible if you have SDR.esp and SDR.esm inactive.

      The SDR.dll functions do absolutely nothing when it comes to altering behavior. All the functions do is make calculations based on existing data and return a resulting value. None of the functions add or remove AI packages or set/change/read alert states. The detection formula does read for the alert state, but it does not alter it. And if you are bypassing the formula, that part of the function would never get triggered.

      iSDRsSMCHActivate is only ever referenced in the SDR.esp to activate the tweaked Strategy Master Combat Hide features.

      iSDRsOnAttackedOption is also only referenced in SDR.esp to activate scripted features to check if a bonus to detect an attacker should be applied to SDR's formula.

      Disabling those options in the .ini and having the alert state get cleared was entirely coincidental.

      SDR.esm does not have any scripting that applies directly to actors, except for the scripted spells. None of which alter alert states.

      SDR.esp does have a few scripts that alter alert states, but if SDR.esp is inactive, those scripts won't run and therefore would have no impact.

      If you are positive no other mod would cause the problem, then it was either a one off bug in the Oblivion game engine where the alert flag hadn't been removed yet, or something in your own mod is causing it. I am guessing the former, because Oblivion can be wonky sometimes.
  6. olha2
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    After using the Wye Bash Wizard install script provided by your mod I got the message that .ini edits could not be performed to EngineBugFixes.ini nd OblivionReloaded.ini and that I should apply those myself after installation. However, I do not know what those changes entail.
    https://i.imgur.com/W7s0uyG.png
    1. saebel
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      That's a standard Wrye Bash feature / message when a mod wants to tweak another mod's ini files.

      The Wrye Bash documentation will explain how to apply the tweaks.
  7. Muroj
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    In response to post #62076502.


    Spoiler:  
    Show

    That should work just fine. That will set the back-slash key for sprinting, which on my keyboard would be the same key that is shared with the | key. Maybe you were thinking forward slash? That's the one that is shared with the "?" key.

    It's also possible that some other mod might be overriding your choice to map it to the back slash key.
     


    Yes, I'm thinking of back slash, right beside left shift. Maybe I'll try other keys and see how it goes. Weird though, since even though I actually did change the button, it still sprinted with V and it wasn't like the sprint wasn't working at all due to a conflict.
     
    Edit: I believe I realized what I was doing wrong. Because I was trying to be careful and learn by example, I had studied one of the default .inis and was putting semicolons at the beginning of each line... which means that it was being ignored the whole time. I hadn't noticed all the lines that DID have semicolons before them were just notes. Oh well, at least I've found the answer to both of my dilemmas! Thanks for telling me to reread things with the Night Eye issue, otherwise I might not have realized that (frankly quite silly) mistake.
    1. saebel
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      That's all right, I've made similar mistakes with my own mod, like misspelling a game setting that I created. No excuses there!

      Glad it's all sorted out!
  8. GBRPluss
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    Hi again Saebel, now new rc3 version works fine with my detection formula, thanks a lot.

    Have a question, what other features can be enabled just from dll, I mean what else I can use without SDR esm-esp when custom formula enabled?
    1. saebel
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      You can use some of the custom OBSE functions that I created. Although most of them are useless without the SDR.esm running, which is what you would need for something like having your own CAVs system.

      SDR.esm is very low impact btw. Most of it is just spells and the scripts needed for processing CAVs functions.

      Read up in the Modder's Guide section of the documentation. It's been fully updated now.
  9. Muroj
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    Hello, I think I need a little help setting a custom sprint button. I guess I'm probably doing something wrong since I'm not too experienced with tweaking .inis.
    The thing is, I like to use the V key to jump, which directly conflicts with the sprinting button.
    I tried changing it to the backslash key like this: http://prntscr.com/k9lhnc
    And it hasn't worked.
    Could someone please advise me on what I could be doing wrong?
    (In SDR Game Setting Tweaks.ini below additional changes line)
    1. saebel
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      That should work just fine. That will set the back-slash key for sprinting, which on my keyboard would be the same key that is shared with the | key. Maybe you were thinking forward slash? That's the one that is shared with the "?" key.

      It's also possible that some other mod might be overriding your choice to map it to the back slash key.
  10. Muroj
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    Hey, I've recently encountered a bug regarding the Khajiit Night Eye ability.
    I used the wizard installer with the latest version of SDR (without the Dynamic Night Eye Shaders, blind, deafen, or muffle) with a brand new character, other unofficial .esps and .esms active, and no .ini tweaks.
    The bug consists of a permanent Night Eye effect that cannot be dispelled unless removing the Night Eye effect from the character with the console and casting the ability again.
    The permanent effect seems to activate on its own.
    At first I thought it could be because of some sort of compatibility issue with a Night Eye toggle mod I had active, but it seems to be SDR itself. It's super inconvenient and not very enjoyable considering in order to play without having to go into console commands every time I'd be going through a dark dungeon I'd have to disable SDR - and I really want to be able to use it.
    I hope you can find out the cause of this, or even tell me that it's specifically my issue.
     
    EDIT: I had SDR disabled. All three files. Disabled.
    And what happens?
    It shows the warning (for the thing I don't use) at the title screen, and the permanent Night Eye glitch returns! I don't even know what to think anymore.
     
    EDIT: I just uninstalled the mod for now. I don't want to deal with this.
    1. saebel
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      It's not a bug. If you read the documentation, it explains how SDR handles Night Eye. Most likely you picked a race that has it innately, and by default the "innate" version is treated as always on as an "Ability". But there is a game setting that allows you to make it a toggled power instead. Read the docs.
  11. saebel
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    Performance Report Update - Harsh Reality. I did my best and went through everything, trying to be as efficient as possible, switching back to the token technique. Making sure everything was working correctly, and no script was firing unless necessary. I did it with an extremely heavy mod load, including all the graphics. See below for the full list.

    Interiors there were no performance problems, which is to be expected because of the smaller area and low population density. Exteriors were another problem altogether. Ultimately I found myself standing at the gates of Chorrol, and I did three different "measurements" with the same load game:
    Without SDR active in any way shape or form: 32-35 fps
    With SDR installed, but using only the Oblivion detection formula and suppressing SDR formula related scripts, features, and calculations: 22-25 fps
    With SDR installed and everything turned on, using SDR's detection formula and all scripts running: 13-15 fps
    NOTE: I did *not* have any of the performance enhancers installed like streamline, more heap, oblivion stutter remover, or the LLA4GB memory booster

    So there you have it. Ultimately, SDR is just too heavy and complicated a mod to provide a benefit for folks who have heavy load orders. For those wondering why the beta version was smooth, it's probably because it was broken and a bunch of things that were supposed to be calculating/firing weren't.

    My options are:
    1. Upload the latest version and just let it be what it is, knowing that folks won't use it if they have a packed load order.
    2. Pack it in all together and just not make the mod available.
    3. Revamp the mod by pruning way back on the features that are probably having the most impact, as well as simplifying the SDR detection formula.

    Of the three options, I don't have a lot of spare time to work on number 3, so odds are that could be many, many months away.

    My load order used for testing:

    Active Mod Files:
    Spoiler:  
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    1. jordan0422
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      I've been following SDR since 2012 I think, so waiting a bit more is no issue. I think the Oblivion engine is the limiting factor here. So I think option 3 is the way to go since you've been at this for a while. I think you can finish it and work around the game engine's limitations by scaling back features.
    2. beldaran1224
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      I am definitely happy to wait for a more performance friendly version. The one thing I would hate is option 2. There's just so many people who play stealth to not have access to your amazing mod.
    3. CarlosS4444
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      I also think that you could leave the latest for now, and perhaps go for the option 3 when time allows.

      Nice to see you still work on this cool mod!
    4. saebel
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      Okay. I've posted the most recent version, which should be fairly bug free. I also finished up the documentation the remaining documentation on my to do list, which includes how to preview/tweak the NightEye and Blind shader effects. After that, I am going to take a break for a couple of months and come back to it in late November.
    5. Zovoct
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      Do you plan on making the SDR obse source available before your break?
    6. saebel
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      Yes, thanks for reminding me. I've uploaded the zipped source files to the Miscellaneous folder and created a separate thread for discussing it.
    7. malonn
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      Please keep the mod available to the public. Not everyone runs a large LO, and the performance impact will vary. Some people have beefy rigs as well. This mod is, really, the only one of it's kind for Oblivion. Nothing else is as comprehensive as this. So, I think removing it is a bad idea.

      I think a revamp would be a good idea too. But maybe keep the "full" version available alongside the revamped. Give people a choice.

      Thanks for keeping this mod alive.
    8. saebel
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      Malonn, thanks for the kind words, and I will take that into account. Ideally, I don't want to have to maintain two different sets of files. So if I can, I will try to figure out some way to include a "full" and a "lite impact" option within the same mod.
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