Bethesda has already stated that yes, Argonians not only are indeed supposed to have breasts, as they have had them since the very first game in the series, and Morrowind was the first game to make them as flat as the men but they can reproduce with other races as well.
Bethesda has gone on record as saying that yes, every race in the series practices penetrative pro-creation, even Argonians. Every race in the Elder Scrolls can and sometimes do breed with each other, as Bethesda has stated that the offspring depends entirely on the mother's race. For instance, a Khajiit could indeed impregnate an Argonian, and their offspring would end up being an Argonian; likewise an Argonian could impregnate a Khajiit and their offspring would be born a Khajiit.
Is it weird? Certainly. But that's the way Bethesda described it.
You win an extra Kudos point here for sure Savage. lol
Yes, we had already suspected the the argument that Bretons already have elven and human lineage, but a Half-Elf is different in our book.
@LordXardas Bretons have been bred as Breton for generations, they are now a new race of their own. Half-Elves have mixed parents, not ancestry.
And the rest, I think you only re-iterate my words. Some nice detail and back story on the Orcimer and Khajiit tho, as I haven't played before Morrowind, and didn't enjoy that the way I do Oblivion. Thank you.
There are a couple of mods up here which allow you to change the mesh of individual playable races I've noticed recently, and I'm hoping I can (some happy day) use these to get Roberts Scrawny Altimer, and A-cup Argonians... but they are all still pretty beta, (different problems with different attempts, someone will find the key and pull them all together I'm sure) and the biggest problem, is that they don't support clothing mesh switches... I don't really want to undress everyone just to find out what cup size their race it. It doesn't bother me that much.
In my mind, I just say that Argonian women in Cyrodill pad their clothing for the sake of fashion. Like Hoop Skirts, bunches, whale bone and up-lifters. In Morrowind, it's not so fashionable to look like a mammal when you are a reptile. Hell, in the 30's fashionable women went all out to look like a ferret or a bird, and tribesmen in bear or stag heads is very common. <shrug> Admittedly, peacocks are pretty when in season. I'm sure chest padding gives an Argonian woman some much needed personality points with at least half of the non-Argonian population. ^_^
How lore friendly these races are, is entirely up to the user. As you point out, there is room for play with TES lore, but Tolkien re-wrote many of his novels too, and changed geography, language and culture with revisions. I merely present the Oblivion lore which I believe indicates these races should exist.
I could separate them out into two esps so you could have either / or, or both, but that would be one more esp when you could just as easy not play the race who's lore you don't agree with. ">
And yes, I like some of the varied Khajiit races. ">
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Finally, Orcs. Well, each game has taken place in the same world at different time periods, so I figure Orcs have evolved and cultured since TES I. It wouldn't surprise me to find that a dialogue with common races could be found with Goblins later on in their development.
That's something I thought would be nice to write as a scripted story line in TES IV. A smarter than average Goblin Shaman who the PC could help try to lead her tribe into trade and commerce with the other "cultured" races of the empire.
One of my favourite quest stories of any RPG was the Ultima Underworld quest to use a mute prisoner of the Thepa (lizard folk) to learn their language (a race memory for them) and discover that they consider men, goblins, mountain folk (dwarfs) and trolls lesser races because we aren't born with the ability to speak their language. It made a really nice storyline.
1. orcs are orsimer, corrupted elves, who were followers of trinimac, the elven god-hero. After he was "eaten" by boethia and transformed into malacath, they were transformed, too.
2. half-elves already exist, they are known as bretons. In the lore concerning the conquest of the elven lands by the nordic people from atmora, it is said, as the nord warriors entered high rock (the province of the nowaday bretons), they could barely differ between humans and elves. This interbreeding created the bretons, which are the most magickally-gifted of all human races, because of their (ald)meri ancestors.
3. khajiti and elven/human interbreeding is at least "technically" possible, read the "real barenziah", the uncensored version from daggerfall, 2nd tome... it's on the imperial library website.
P.S.: the "mammal" look of argonians is quite controversial. If you compare them to TESIII, then it's just about limited game mechanics in TESIV (no separate beast races or even different skeletons for males & females). But in TES I and II, they looked like they look in Oblivon, which breaks the lore somehow, although the lore has changed a lot during the four games (in TES I orcs were common monsters). There are still debates which game has chopped up the lore more, morrowind compared to daggerfall or oblivion compared to morrowind. --> Thus there's enough room for your own interpretation of the TES lore, because bethesda doesn't give a damn and changes it in every game, mostly because of game mechanic limitations or current whims and "mainstreaming". You can simply say that there are different breeds of argonians (and khajiits, too, because they have a similar game VS lore story)
Thank you Edhildil. I am trying to follow TES lore rather than Middle Earth, but yes Tolkins Orcs where definitely warped and corrupted Elves. In TES lore, most elves and many Orcs will deny this theory, but historical evidence suggests that Orcinium (the original one, before the fall) was an Elven city in the lost histories, and there is no evidence that the Orcimer invaded it, they just evolved as it's primary occupants, so presumably they evolved from the Elven race which originally founded it.
What prompted them to evolve as they did, or which other race or races they mixed with to come to the present Orcimer, is completely unknown. What we do know is that since the fall of the original Orcinium city state, modern Orcinium has been locked in constant battle with it's neighbours, and is constantly being rebuilt as parts of it are destroyed in the battles, and shifting borders. Much like Skyrim. Which explains the Orcs similar physic and attitude to the Nords.
@Deepblue686 Hmm, well, the CS may consider Vampires a race, but normally Vampires don't breed. They spread the Polymorphic Haemophilia disease to their victims. It might be fair to say that, should they manage to spawn a child, he may contract the disease to, through the nature of his parentage. AIDS babies would be one good example of a blood disease being contracted before birth, and most children contract Herpes Simplex from their parents.
However, his mother was NOT a vampire, and therefore he would not contract the disease in the womb, and it isn't transmitted sexually, and even if it where, his mother never got it. So I think it's fair to say that it would only be his fathers human genes that he inherited.
If you are thinking of the way he reacts to the news of his paternal heritage, consider this way... If he where part vampire, he would have expected this news, knowing that he is not makes no difference to him, as Orc and Nord cultures are about your parents honour, not their genetics. A vampire is not an honourable father figure for any Orc.
Additionally, if you know anything of the game mechanics you will know, there are no sub-races to the Vampire NPC race. They are all Imperial. So the only alteration I could make, would be to add the vampire eyes as an option to the half races, and set Agronak up to use vampire eyes.
From my point of view... I wouldn't do that because, again, that should give away the end of that story and the Grey Prince should expect it. He's an Orc, (half-orc genetically, but all Orc in his raising, values and ethics) that means his pride is important to him, it doesn't mean he's stupid. ">
It would be simple enough to change however, and if there was enough demand, I would make an alternative esp for those who wanted it that way.
6 comments
Bethesda has gone on record as saying that yes, every race in the series practices penetrative pro-creation, even Argonians. Every race in the Elder Scrolls can and sometimes do breed with each other, as Bethesda has stated that the offspring depends entirely on the mother's race. For instance, a Khajiit could indeed impregnate an Argonian, and their offspring would end up being an Argonian; likewise an Argonian could impregnate a Khajiit and their offspring would be born a Khajiit.
Is it weird? Certainly. But that's the way Bethesda described it.
Yes, we had already suspected the the argument that Bretons already have elven and human lineage, but a Half-Elf is different in our book.
@LordXardas
Bretons have been bred as Breton for generations, they are now a new race of their own. Half-Elves have mixed parents, not ancestry.
And the rest, I think you only re-iterate my words. Some nice detail and back story on the Orcimer and Khajiit tho, as I haven't played before Morrowind, and didn't enjoy that the way I do Oblivion. Thank you.
There are a couple of mods up here which allow you to change the mesh of individual playable races I've noticed recently, and I'm hoping I can (some happy day) use these to get Roberts Scrawny Altimer, and A-cup Argonians... but they are all still pretty beta, (different problems with different attempts, someone will find the key and pull them all together I'm sure) and the biggest problem, is that they don't support clothing mesh switches... I don't really want to undress everyone just to find out what cup size their race it. It doesn't bother me that much.
In my mind, I just say that Argonian women in Cyrodill pad their clothing for the sake of fashion. Like Hoop Skirts, bunches, whale bone and up-lifters. In Morrowind, it's not so fashionable to look like a mammal when you are a reptile. Hell, in the 30's fashionable women went all out to look like a ferret or a bird, and tribesmen in bear or stag heads is very common. <shrug> Admittedly, peacocks are pretty when in season. I'm sure chest padding gives an Argonian woman some much needed personality points with at least half of the non-Argonian population. ^_^
How lore friendly these races are, is entirely up to the user. As you point out, there is room for play with TES lore, but Tolkien re-wrote many of his novels too, and changed geography, language and culture with revisions. I merely present the Oblivion lore which I believe indicates these races should exist.
I could separate them out into two esps so you could have either / or, or both, but that would be one more esp when you could just as easy not play the race who's lore you don't agree with.
And yes, I like some of the varied Khajiit races.
8< - - - - - - Edit - - - - - - - - -
Finally, Orcs. Well, each game has taken place in the same world at different time periods, so I figure Orcs have evolved and cultured since TES I. It wouldn't surprise me to find that a dialogue with common races could be found with Goblins later on in their development.
That's something I thought would be nice to write as a scripted story line in TES IV. A smarter than average Goblin Shaman who the PC could help try to lead her tribe into trade and commerce with the other "cultured" races of the empire.
One of my favourite quest stories of any RPG was the Ultima Underworld quest to use a mute prisoner of the Thepa (lizard folk) to learn their language (a race memory for them) and discover that they consider men, goblins, mountain folk (dwarfs) and trolls lesser races because we aren't born with the ability to speak their language. It made a really nice storyline.
Hey bobsobol, what do I win? I said with 100% certainty there would be a comment like this. People are so predictable.
1. orcs are orsimer, corrupted elves, who were followers of trinimac, the elven god-hero. After he was "eaten" by boethia and transformed into malacath, they were transformed, too.
2. half-elves already exist, they are known as bretons. In the lore concerning the conquest of the elven lands by the nordic people from atmora, it is said, as the nord warriors entered high rock (the province of the nowaday bretons), they could barely differ between humans and elves. This interbreeding created the bretons, which are the most magickally-gifted of all human races, because of their (ald)meri ancestors.
3. khajiti and elven/human interbreeding is at least "technically" possible, read the "real barenziah", the uncensored version from daggerfall, 2nd tome... it's on the imperial library website.
P.S.: the "mammal" look of argonians is quite controversial. If you compare them to TESIII, then it's just about limited game mechanics in TESIV (no separate beast races or even different skeletons for males & females). But in TES I and II, they looked like they look in Oblivon, which breaks the lore somehow, although the lore has changed a lot during the four games (in TES I orcs were common monsters). There are still debates which game has chopped up the lore more, morrowind compared to daggerfall or oblivion compared to morrowind.
--> Thus there's enough room for your own interpretation of the TES lore, because bethesda doesn't give a damn and changes it in every game, mostly because of game mechanic limitations or current whims and "mainstreaming". You can simply say that there are different breeds of argonians (and khajiits, too, because they have a similar game VS lore story)
What prompted them to evolve as they did, or which other race or races they mixed with to come to the present Orcimer, is completely unknown. What we do know is that since the fall of the original Orcinium city state, modern Orcinium has been locked in constant battle with it's neighbours, and is constantly being rebuilt as parts of it are destroyed in the battles, and shifting borders. Much like Skyrim. Which explains the Orcs similar physic and attitude to the Nords.
@Deepblue686
Hmm, well, the CS may consider Vampires a race, but normally Vampires don't breed. They spread the Polymorphic Haemophilia disease to their victims. It might be fair to say that, should they manage to spawn a child, he may contract the disease to, through the nature of his parentage. AIDS babies would be one good example of a blood disease being contracted before birth, and most children contract Herpes Simplex from their parents.
However, his mother was NOT a vampire, and therefore he would not contract the disease in the womb, and it isn't transmitted sexually, and even if it where, his mother never got it. So I think it's fair to say that it would only be his fathers human genes that he inherited.
If you are thinking of the way he reacts to the news of his paternal heritage, consider this way... If he where part vampire, he would have expected this news, knowing that he is not makes no difference to him, as Orc and Nord cultures are about your parents honour, not their genetics. A vampire is not an honourable father figure for any Orc.
Additionally, if you know anything of the game mechanics you will know, there are no sub-races to the Vampire NPC race. They are all Imperial. So the only alteration I could make, would be to add the vampire eyes as an option to the half races, and set Agronak up to use vampire eyes.
From my point of view... I wouldn't do that because, again, that should give away the end of that story and the Grey Prince should expect it. He's an Orc, (half-orc genetically, but all Orc in his raising, values and ethics) that means his pride is important to him, it doesn't mean he's stupid.
It would be simple enough to change however, and if there was enough demand, I would make an alternative esp for those who wanted it that way.
I'd suggest doing something else as well that Bethesda didn't do.
Set Agronak as a vampire since he is half-orc half-vampire after all