I Have addressed your Criticisms and updated the mod to Rechamber the Assault Carbine to 5.56 and I also Renamed 5mm to .277 Rockwell a reference to the new .277 Carriage adopted by the U.S Military.
.300 Blackout is a low-velocity cartridge wholly unsuitable for use in any rotary weapon or even a general purpose machine gun. It's too slow to provide useful armor penetration. 5mm rounds are high-velocity armor-penetrating rounds, presumably with a case volume and/or chamber pressure greater than conventional sub-calibre or carbine ammunition.
The game doesn't need to adhere to reality, and if you want to be even pickier, .300 Blackout is made by a company founded long after the divergence in timelines of the Fallout universe with ours.
If you want to make it something lore-friendly, name it "5mm Rockwell," since it is most notably used in the Rockwell-made miniguns.
Congratulations for eliciting me to waste 5 minutes of my life making this ultimately fruitless comment.
i mean; the Marksman Carbine literally uses real world parts from the mid 2000s - and .300 Blackout wouldn't be too big a departure from the Fallout Timeline (so called "Divergence") anyway since the tech to make such ammunition isn't much different from what was around in the 1950's.
Granted .300 Whisper would be more thematically consistent since it's more or less the same round, and was introduced in the 1990s (Actually thinking about .300 Whisper gives me an idea to introduce a STALKER-in-FNV inspired 9x39mm-esque Stealth Rifle round - something heavy, powerful, medium spread, low range even for FNV guns, etc)
Using parts based visually on real-world designs is one thing. Referencing by name a company that did or didn't exist after the timeline divergence is a wholly separate matter.
That's why the guns in the game don't make any reference to Colt or Browning or Winchester or Remington, etc.: They're Gun Runner copies, for the most part, not original production models. The Dead Money Automatic Rifle is obviously based on the BAR and Colt Monitor in combination, but it isn't named such for licensing reasons, and the .357 Magnum Revolver similarly isn't named the Colt Single Action Army because it isn't a Colt-made gun, but Gun Runner-made.
It doesn't really matter in the end either way. More modern items would make more sense, but they would be different from that which we have today by virtue of arising from different companies and design philosophies.
CZ exists in the fallout universe, kalashnikov exists in the fallout universe, f*#@ing colt exists in the fallout universe, theres countless real companies that make guns now that still exist in the fallout universe, shut the f*#@ up
My point was that regardless of the provenance of the designs, the original companies didn't make any (or many) of the guns present in New Vegas specifically. The Gun Runners did. That's why you can buy the .357 SAA-style revolver in perfect condition from them: It isn't a Colt relic from centuries ago, it's a mint knock-off (worn condition of the single model in the game notwithstanding; with more time, I imagine the devs would have made distinct new and old versions).
So, even if the Gun Runners copied an AKM exactly, it isn't strictly a Kalashnikov because Kalashnikov did not manufacture that specific gun. People might still call it a Kalashnikov, because the iconic name and design would survive in our collective memory and history, but it wouldn't be an actual Kalashnikov.
Regardless of whatever gun nut fudd arguments you can make, none of this is Lore Friendly unless it's being exclusively sold by The Gun Runners, and even then that's a stretch.
There are plenty of 5mm rounds that exist irl especially in recent years, it also makes sense for what the ingame round does: a 5.56 sized round with higher penetration.
Also, the idea of either a m4 or a minigun firing .300 blackout is even more nonsense if you understand the size and power difference between it and normal 5.56.
the 5mm Round in game is not a Specific Round, it could be anything form a Pistol carriage like the 5.7x28 or a Rifle carriage like the 5mm Remington Rimfire Magnum technically the 5.56 is a "5mm" so is 22 Long rifle, and if the 5mm in game is supposed to be based on the 5.56 yet it is not compatible with Regular 5.56. therefore Its either Necked down or slightly longer than the standard 5.56. so I chose .300 as its similar to in size but also incompatible with the 5.56. regardless their are Real AR-15s chambered in .300 Blackout and As far as I know 0 chambered in 5mm Remington Magnum. weather or not .300 Black it is a Effective round compared to the 5.56.
5mm as ammo use in ncr carbine which share same AR-like platform with marksman carbine and service rifle, so fallout's 5mm must have similar to .223 cal case and cartridge full length must be around of 57.40 mm, bullet must be a 5mm (~ .22 cal). Closer type of ammunition should be 20 tactical or .19-223 Calhoon.
Simply put the 5mm . 223 dynamic in the first games was due to misconception that civilian guns can only use .223 loads and not milspec 5.56. Its more likely the developers saw 5.7 and changed 5mm rounds to such for gameplay as only 5.7 has an inherent armor piercing design compared to all the other 5mm cartridges possible. Lastly there are at least 3 carbines off the top of my head that use 5.7mm also making the designation fit. As for why a minigun uses the 5mm cartridge its once again due to this misconception as the first two fallouts do not have a 5.56mm round. Thus why trying to piece ingame cartridges to their real life counterpart is silly as the developers for their time werent educated with firearms and the internet wasnt as much help as now.
The Assault Carbine uses 5mm as both a nod to the AK112 using 5mm (which for the AK112 was most likely to partially represent the real world Russian 5.45mm used in the AK74) and as a way to keep 5.56 balanced for generally semi-automatic weapons (the LMG being an exception; due to being a late game weapon, and likely in-lore consistency as an NCR squad's dedicated SAW using the same ammo as )
Fallout 1/Fallout 2's weapons were mostly handled by Chris Taylor (with Tim Cain likely making sure stuff was balanced) who had a pretty decent understanding of firearms IIRC (there's a reason why relatively obscure-in-1998 weapons such as the XL70, 1958 M60 Prototype, G11 and HK CAWS were included) 5mm and .223 were most likely kept separate simply for balance purposes (not wanted players to farm shitloads of easy-to-get .223 and be able to use it in a late game Minigun...or do a reverse and have .223 be unachievable to an early game Rangemaster player)
It's also a nice touch to show the game's worldbuilding being more than just "50's retrofuturism" - and actually taking the 120 year difference into account by including new ammunition types. However there's been no real lore made for the 5mm Round; I'd assume it's supposed to be the .30 Carbine retrofuture "equivalent" of Fallout; being a smaller-intended-for-lighter-weapons than the service standard (.30 Carbine vs .30-06; 5mm vs 5.56mm/.223) more suited to Miniguns (Granted .30 Carbine was only used for the M1 Carbine; some pistols in the civilian market) and Carbines; basically a slightly smaller, thinner bullet with greater armour penetration, lower felt recoil, more ammunition capacity (in theory; the Assault Carbine really should be able to fit 8 more rounds) and higher velocities than 5.56mm.
Realism takes a backseat to balance and fun; there's a reason why Fallout 3 has a Hunting Rifle and Revolver ("pistol") chambered in .32 (despite the former being in .22LR before release), why the 5.45mm AK-112 is using the generic US-Military 5mm in Fallout/Fallout 2, Why New Vegas has the 12.7mm Pistol instead of 14mm Pistol, why .30-30 was cut, etc - no point adding in redundant ammunition types, and the non-gunnut gamers (the majority unfortunately) don't really give a f*#@ about a million ammo types because it's just confusing (i.e me dumb .50 AE and .50 MG same round) bloat.
14 comments
a reference to the new .277 Carriage adopted by the U.S Military.
Truly, an astounding revelation.
.300 Blackout is a low-velocity cartridge wholly unsuitable for use in any rotary weapon or even a general purpose machine gun. It's too slow to provide useful armor penetration. 5mm rounds are high-velocity armor-penetrating rounds, presumably with a case volume and/or chamber pressure greater than conventional sub-calibre or carbine ammunition.
The game doesn't need to adhere to reality, and if you want to be even pickier, .300 Blackout is made by a company founded long after the divergence in timelines of the Fallout universe with ours.
If you want to make it something lore-friendly, name it "5mm Rockwell," since it is most notably used in the Rockwell-made miniguns.
Congratulations for eliciting me to waste 5 minutes of my life making this ultimately fruitless comment.
Granted .300 Whisper would be more thematically consistent since it's more or less the same round, and was introduced in the 1990s (Actually thinking about .300 Whisper gives me an idea to introduce a STALKER-in-FNV inspired 9x39mm-esque Stealth Rifle round - something heavy, powerful, medium spread, low range even for FNV guns, etc)
That's why the guns in the game don't make any reference to Colt or Browning or Winchester or Remington, etc.: They're Gun Runner copies, for the most part, not original production models. The Dead Money Automatic Rifle is obviously based on the BAR and Colt Monitor in combination, but it isn't named such for licensing reasons, and the .357 Magnum Revolver similarly isn't named the Colt Single Action Army because it isn't a Colt-made gun, but Gun Runner-made.
It doesn't really matter in the end either way. More modern items would make more sense, but they would be different from that which we have today by virtue of arising from different companies and design philosophies.
My point was that regardless of the provenance of the designs, the original companies didn't make any (or many) of the guns present in New Vegas specifically. The Gun Runners did. That's why you can buy the .357 SAA-style revolver in perfect condition from them: It isn't a Colt relic from centuries ago, it's a mint knock-off (worn condition of the single model in the game notwithstanding; with more time, I imagine the devs would have made distinct new and old versions).
So, even if the Gun Runners copied an AKM exactly, it isn't strictly a Kalashnikov because Kalashnikov did not manufacture that specific gun. People might still call it a Kalashnikov, because the iconic name and design would survive in our collective memory and history, but it wouldn't be an actual Kalashnikov.
Also, the idea of either a m4 or a minigun firing .300 blackout is even more nonsense if you understand the size and power difference between it and normal 5.56.
technically the 5.56 is a "5mm" so is 22 Long rifle, and if the 5mm in game is supposed to be based on the 5.56 yet it is not compatible with Regular 5.56. therefore Its either Necked down or slightly longer than the standard 5.56. so I chose .300 as its similar to in size but also incompatible with the 5.56.
regardless their are Real AR-15s chambered in .300 Blackout and As far as I know 0 chambered in 5mm Remington Magnum. weather or not .300 Black it is a Effective round compared to the 5.56.
Fallout 1/Fallout 2's weapons were mostly handled by Chris Taylor (with Tim Cain likely making sure stuff was balanced) who had a pretty decent understanding of firearms IIRC (there's a reason why relatively obscure-in-1998 weapons such as the XL70, 1958 M60 Prototype, G11 and HK CAWS were included) 5mm and .223 were most likely kept separate simply for balance purposes (not wanted players to farm shitloads of easy-to-get .223 and be able to use it in a late game Minigun...or do a reverse and have .223 be unachievable to an early game Rangemaster player)
It's also a nice touch to show the game's worldbuilding being more than just "50's retrofuturism" - and actually taking the 120 year difference into account by including new ammunition types. However there's been no real lore made for the 5mm Round; I'd assume it's supposed to be the .30 Carbine retrofuture "equivalent" of Fallout; being a smaller-intended-for-lighter-weapons than the service standard (.30 Carbine vs .30-06; 5mm vs 5.56mm/.223) more suited to Miniguns (Granted .30 Carbine was only used for the M1 Carbine; some pistols in the civilian market) and Carbines; basically a slightly smaller, thinner bullet with greater armour penetration, lower felt recoil, more ammunition capacity (in theory; the Assault Carbine really should be able to fit 8 more rounds) and higher velocities than 5.56mm.
Realism takes a backseat to balance and fun; there's a reason why Fallout 3 has a Hunting Rifle and Revolver ("pistol") chambered in .32 (despite the former being in .22LR before release), why the 5.45mm AK-112 is using the generic US-Military 5mm in Fallout/Fallout 2, Why New Vegas has the 12.7mm Pistol instead of 14mm Pistol, why .30-30 was cut, etc - no point adding in redundant ammunition types, and the non-gunnut gamers (the majority unfortunately) don't really give a f*#@ about a million ammo types because it's just confusing (i.e me dumb .50 AE and .50 MG same round) bloat.