i can see this being a hit or miss for some ppl, but honestly for a paranoid mf like me that cant sleep knowing my save file will be utterly ravaged one way or another, this eased my phobia 10/10
Would it be possible to make a version of this mod that triggers slower just on death. If you let's say have a mod that adds death lines, they get cut off mid-sentence. I'm just asking for a friend of course.
That's not the main issue. The issue is most script extender commands persist like ones that make changes to stats of a weapon or something like that, too many things to mention and most modders don't account for this in their scripts. In the vanilla mines can explode and then not be reset when you load a save. Even worse a vanilla command called "PlaceAtMe" (Which is used frequently) often has the spawned object persist when loading a game which could be really bad for heavily scripted stuff.
@Inthegrave Are there any patches available which fix the bug?
If not, then... Is it possible to force New Vegas to close and re-open when loading a save? You've forced it to close. Can you make it re-open loading the proper save?
No there isn't any patches yet, Someone like Stewie would have to fix it at engine level.
For opening the game back up I had a few ask about this and I am indeed interested in doing this but I have found no solution that would allow me to do that yet unfortunately.
@Inthegrave Alright. I have yet more questions: 1. is there documentation of these bugs with test cases that reliably reproduce it? 2. You said that PlaceAtMe "often" has the spawned object persist. This implies it doesn't always happen. Are the exact mechanisms causing the persistence bug well understood? 3. Does the bug exist in Fallout 4? 4. I have experienced at least one quest-breaking bug in FNV since I started playing it recently. I somehow managed to talk to Jason Bright, left the repconn site, and came back only to find that I didn't have the repconn basement key. I'm wondering if the loading saves mid-session bug is responsible- could it corrupt my keyring? 5. Is Stewie working on an engine-level fix?
1: No but it's a known issue in all of the Elder Scrolls and Fallout games since Morrowind. Some bugs in these games are unfortunately hard to reproduce and are basically up to chance. There is likely a specific way to reproduce it but we haven't found it yet. 2: No they aren't well understood and it's random but I have run into this bug many times over the years and a few other modders I known have as well. 3: Yes, I don't mod Fallout 4 but I heard it's even worse there in some cases. It effects most Bethesda games. 4: Hmm hard to say. 5: I don't think so. Unfortunately I don't think any of the modding communities for these games have completely erased the bug.
a "random" bug? There is almost never such a thing. The bug is probably some variable, pointer, or bit of memory that gets configured unexpectedly. Again, if we can create a sequence of save files which can be loaded in a specific order (perhaps with certain actions being performed) then we could isolate this bug.
You didn't listen to what I told you, I said "There is likely a SPECIFIC way to reproduce it but we haven't found it yet." I mean random in that we can't find a way to reproduce it thus when you use said command it will sometimes cause the bug and sometimes won't thus appearing random.
Well I agree with that sentiment then. What needs to happen is we need to try to re-create the bug reliably.
We could then ship the save files with instructions to someone like stewie.
Can you give me everything you know about the bug, how it has been triggered, how it behaves, etcetera?
I realize that from what you describe it probably isn't much, and it's probably quite spotty, but any leads I can get will help.
If I'm going to try to spam saves while playing vanilla unpatched New Vegas (or whatever proximity thereof would be most useful) for several hours paying extra special attention to land mines and NPCs, I want to get some hints as to how it triggers.
I'd like to avoid wasting too much time trying stuff that we already know isn't going to work.
"Description says - with loading a save game mid game." Exactly, this mod doesn't allow loading any saves mid game, regardless if it's a quicksave or not.
"In this case, I think it is better to use my mod for this" No, this mod makes it faster by closing the game so you can boot it back up for a safe load. Eventually I would like to make this mod close the game and automatically boot the game back up.
I never said you had to use the mod, if you don't like it then don't use it. The mod was purposefully made this way by design. It's supposed to make restarting the game easier / faster because loading saves mid game can lead to issues in some cases.
It literally says in the description "To prevent these game breaking issues this mod simply prevents you from being able to load save games mid session, this mod will forcibly close the game if you attempt to load a save mid game or if you die to make the process of reloading the game as fast as possible."
You should always read the description of any mod you use. More often than not, it will have the information you need.
Just want to say this might have been the cause of my very first game breaking bug way back, on the 360. I was wearing the NCR ranger uniform all the time and probably savescumming a lot and when I took it off I found the game left all my reputations at neutral. I was so angry.
To this day I am still needlessly wary of the disguise system.
@Inthegrave Considering how widespread this bug is to the greater community, and how much potential it has to destroy people's runs,
could you craft some save files which can be used to replicate the bug in an unmodified copy of the game?
If you don't have the time, I might have the time. If you can explain a way that I could trigger it myself, I might be able to produce some save files which demonstrate the bug and then give that to some talented modders to craft a patch
Well, for example, what you could do, is construct a save file to load initially. Do some action in that save file, then load save file 2 do another action, load save file 3... You get the picture. if the sequence is followed correctly, the bug is reproduced.
The aim being: Create a 100% reproducible test case.
These save files could then be given to someone like stewie to create an engine-level patch.
In a similar situation (work software) I've had a script create a separate launcher file that contains a delay timer, start that launcher, then close the main software. The delay had to be long enough for the software to fully close. A script in the main file then deleted the launcher. I don't know enough about NV scripting to know if a similar concept could been done while accounting for the infinite installation possibilities.
Also, I have successfully used this glitch to fix broken saves. Loaded a save that didn't have the same break, then loaded the broken save and it worked. Probably broke other things in the process, but one problem at a time.
56 comments
I started a new game in doc mitchell's house and I picked up a blood pack.
I loaded the save mid-session (no restart) and it was there just like it should be.
What bugs does this prevent, exactly?
or something like that, too many things to mention and most modders don't account for this in their scripts. In the vanilla mines can
explode and then not be reset when you load a save. Even worse a vanilla command called "PlaceAtMe" (Which is used frequently) often
has the spawned object persist when loading a game which could be really bad for heavily scripted stuff.
Are there any patches available which fix the bug?
If not, then...
Is it possible to force New Vegas to close and re-open when loading a save?
You've forced it to close. Can you make it re-open loading the proper save?
For opening the game back up I had a few ask about this and I am indeed interested in doing this but I have found no solution that would
allow me to do that yet unfortunately.
Alright. I have yet more questions:
1. is there documentation of these bugs with test cases that reliably reproduce it?
2. You said that PlaceAtMe "often" has the spawned object persist. This implies it doesn't always happen. Are the exact mechanisms causing the persistence bug well understood?
3. Does the bug exist in Fallout 4?
4. I have experienced at least one quest-breaking bug in FNV since I started playing it recently. I somehow managed to talk to Jason Bright, left the repconn site, and came back only to find that I didn't have the repconn basement key.
I'm wondering if the loading saves mid-session bug is responsible- could it corrupt my keyring?
5. Is Stewie working on an engine-level fix?
hard to reproduce and are basically up to chance. There is likely a specific way to reproduce it but we haven't found it yet.
2: No they aren't well understood and it's random but I have run into this bug many times over the years and a few other modders I known
have as well.
3: Yes, I don't mod Fallout 4 but I heard it's even worse there in some cases. It effects most Bethesda games.
4: Hmm hard to say.
5: I don't think so. Unfortunately I don't think any of the modding communities for these games have completely erased the bug.
The bug is probably some variable, pointer, or bit of memory that gets configured unexpectedly.
Again, if we can create a sequence of save files which can be loaded in a specific order (perhaps with certain actions being performed) then we could isolate this bug.
Could be a bug bounty thing.
I mean random in that we can't find a way to reproduce it thus when you use said command it will sometimes cause the bug
and sometimes won't thus appearing random.
We could then ship the save files with instructions to someone like stewie.
Can you give me everything you know about the bug, how it has been triggered, how it behaves, etcetera?
I realize that from what you describe it probably isn't much, and it's probably quite spotty, but any leads I can get will help.
If I'm going to try to spam saves while playing vanilla unpatched New Vegas (or whatever proximity thereof would be most useful) for several hours paying extra special attention to land mines and NPCs, I want to get some hints as to how it triggers.
I'd like to avoid wasting too much time trying stuff that we already know isn't going to work.
Description says - with loading a save game mid game.
In this case, I think it is better to use my mod for this, then it will not allow loading game saves at all.
https://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/83649
Exactly, this mod doesn't allow loading any saves mid game, regardless if it's a quicksave or not.
"In this case, I think it is better to use my mod for this"
No, this mod makes it faster by closing the game so you can boot it back up for a safe load. Eventually I would like to make this mod
close the game and automatically boot the game back up.
It's supposed to make restarting the game easier / faster because loading saves mid game can lead to issues in some cases.
You should always read the description of any mod you use. More often than not, it will have the information you need.
To this day I am still needlessly wary of the disguise system.
Considering how widespread this bug is to the greater community, and how much potential it has to destroy people's runs,
could you craft some save files which can be used to replicate the bug in an unmodified copy of the game?
If you don't have the time, I might have the time. If you can explain a way that I could trigger it myself, I might be able to produce some save files which demonstrate the bug and then give that to some talented modders to craft a patch
Well, for example, what you could do, is construct a save file to load initially.
Do some action in that save file, then load save file 2
do another action, load save file 3...
You get the picture.
if the sequence is followed correctly, the bug is reproduced.
The aim being: Create a 100% reproducible test case.
These save files could then be given to someone like stewie to create an engine-level patch.
Also, I have successfully used this glitch to fix broken saves. Loaded a save that didn't have the same break, then loaded the broken save and it worked. Probably broke other things in the process, but one problem at a time.