2.0 has been released, and had you downloaded 1.0 I do apologize...1.0 also had some major issues I had not realized until today...such as missing meshes, and what not. Regardless special thanks to all of you guys who made fun of the idea...It only helped me to strive of a way to make it better, and if your still following this mod I hope you enjoy it.
This new version also includes replacers for some of the Pipboy icons used for coins, and even new content for the new Bottlecaps types to help with immersion. Remember any time you crouch while at a Sink, or other water source with the exception of open water you can fill up your empty bottles. This aspect however is not of my own design, therefore a special Thanks many times over to Solar Tails for letting me include his Bottled Water mod which I have thoroughly enjoyed for many moons.
As of yesterday Version 2.0 which will be out no later then Sunday, will now include Solar Tails Water mod (With permission.) Optimized to work with a new way of using, and trading Bottlecaps, and most importantly Water.
http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/34800/?
It will feature a newer way of using bottlecaps based on the various comments, and sundries about Bottlecaps having value by people. There are 2 kinds of bottlecaps. You have Refurb Bottlecaps, and Worn Bottlecaps. Essentially when you drink anything (except moonshine ....may change) you get a Worn Bottlecap. Plus a bottle that can be reused as many times as you carry them. The name of course will change since the scripts are actually swapping out new items to effect per use. So they will eventually end up saying Glass Bottle instead of its original name, and weight.
Bottlecaps now largely trade based on your bartering skill at this time, but can be purchased for 1 cap each from most vendors in the game.
What I intend to do is increase the overall value of NCR, Pre-War and Legion currency available to vendors to make the game more immersive. I like to actually see, and proverbially touch my money rather then see a bunch of numbers telling me how much. There will of course be different versions of the esp since I like to have an economy that feels Practical, and sensible rather then overtly tongue in cheek which a portion of you seem to like more.
I now see the other reason for using bottle caps instead of precious metal, it is a lot easier to deal with. While if you go with silver and gold, you are going purely by weight and how precious is that metal to society. I mean pennies may still be valuable because you can melt it down and use it for piping.
Sounds good for the spices.
Nice Avatar by the way. Lol good ol .308 ^_^
Thank you, my new love will be the Tavor Carbine when they release it in .308.
If the caps were pure silver coinage, and not CAP Dimes you could carry about 10,000 Dimes per 50lb weight.
Even so a bottle cap is marginally lighter then a dime but it also takes up about 3-4 times the volume. So for a backpacking type you would still need to carry around a sack the size of a gecko. I made the CAPs heavier for the sake of feeling like ....wow this shits heavy, but I can make a realistic weight value for the CAP Dimes that perhaps you guys will be more pleased with.
Certainly if I was a bottlecap carrying sort I'd have a pack brahmin everywhere I go full of bottlecaps.
In any event in 2.0 which I plan to put out before next week should be a bit more balanced for the style of play you guys probably like.
Also want to make better looking pipboy icons. I'd like to figure out what I need to do so they are sized more appropriately, but its a minor issue. I'm just sick of seeing a big ass dime repeatedly everytime I scan my inventory Kinda sad actually...spent 3 hours making that dime lol....Anyways I'll shoot a photo of some dimes on white with maybe a little baggy next to it for immersion purposes...clean it up a bit, and then convert to .dds should look much better.
The main reasons why bottle caps are used instead of precious metal, one the game designers wanted Fallout to be unique from The Morrow Project and Wasteland. Yes, both Wasteland and Fallout are derived from The Morrow Project. Another reason why bottle caps are used instead of precious metal is because Fallout is supposed to be a little humorous. How many times have you found yourself laughing in a new game of Fallout? I found myself laughing a few times throughout Fallouts 1, 2, and 3.
Realistically, precious metal, spices, food items, B50 to B100, and etc, will be the new economy if a country's economy or the World Economy collapses, not bottle caps, paper money, nor coins that have very little precious metal inside them.
I totally agree I was thinking 5% does seem awfully damn low in consequence. Mostly the imaginary silver content affects overall value of other coins...no matter what a Cap is a Cap remains a cap...period. Ultimately its all about finding that magic number that works for the game. If you have a game where stuff costs alot more having 5% value may work great...for a normal game with standard global pricing, and high barter setting the standard per cap would go further to devaluing the fixed price of other currencies.
Spices might be something to look into for a later mod though if I created some recipes to work in conjunction with Craftmaster. Although it would require modeling, and some additional effort to do it well, but I suppose you could always have vendors, and loot that says "Jar of Tarragon." "Vial of Garlic" etc. That could be opened up, and used accordingly.
Certainly bottle-caps as money make little logical sense. Contrary to opinion, they would not be "that" hard to counterfeit, they would be difficult to carry in any capacity and their disbursement is not controlled since they can crop up as "treasure" from any old pre-war site.
But, super mutants, ghouls, gigantic irradiated cock roaches, mantis, scorpions and geckos are irrational as well, considering what we know of radiation today. Not to mention deathclaws, and all the other bizarre critters wandering the wastes. I won't even get into the absurdity of some of the weapons or even medical chems.
We are obviously not playing this game for realism. If we wanted more realism than we would be looking for one of those real war shooter games. I like bottle caps because they fit the genre and the back ground and the "canon" of the game. They are a cool form of currency rather than gold pieces. It is "tongue in cheek" money, which is the way of most of the items in the game. It all leans toward the funny or foolish a little bit. That is part of the fun of the game.
I guess it depends on how you play the game...For me I got it setup to the extent that my summary pre-occupation with surviving is food, and water.
I can only carry 80-100 pounds I'm actually fixing to drop that amount to 50 in the future to challenge myself to do with less.... On my last playthrough I put in 156 hours, and logged 11 Humans killed, and I didn't really have a choice in those instances, killed about 1500 creatures over 4 years in game...So I was mostly of the persuasion...Badguys over there? Oh well I'll go elsewhere. Having your Actor LOD maxed is also a bonus.^_^
I used Cyberlazy's Craftmaster to survive, and scavenge to make whatever I needed rather then force myself into a gunfight I could avoid....
A thousand Caps weighs about 10 pounds in my game so I can't keep very much money on my person unless I cache it...And thats presuming I have money seeing as I tend to spend most of it on 3 meals a day, plus 2 bottles of water if I don't Hunt, Forage, or payup for food... In just 3 days I'll die...yes I know you can technically go 2 weeks to a month without food, but I feel that particular formula helps me keep it real.
I also tend to have a heavily gimped character to begin with usually emphasizing more on Repair, Lockpick, Medicine and stealth with some moderate speech. I like having a beneficial trade rather then being a gun for hire.
So like I said it really comes down to what sort of style your looking for. For me I don't like to feel special, ...I just want to be a bit sharper, and more keen then the average wasteland trash. I go out of my way to make sure my guy isn't an unstoppable badass. At least not right away that is.
Also good point on Counterfeiting Jaege...If the Gun Runners have all the tools to manufacture brand spanking new Precision made Weapons, and Ammunition it only seems fair someone could shave off a thin layer of sheet metal for a bottle cap. Another thing I would like to add is that the NCR's shift from a Gold backed currency to a paper currency is essentially a microcosm of what CAP Currencies, and real life trends in the value of money from the creation of the Federal Reserve in the winter of 1913 clear up to today.
Bottles shouldn't be worth more that caps just because they're useful. By that logic,water (which is very useful) should be more valuable than diamonds. It's not, because diamonds are rarer and harder to come by. Bottles are easy to make. Melt some glass and blow it into a mold. Caps aren't easy to make, they're backed by a major trading power, and everyone uses them, that's why it's the currency of the Fallout world.
"when there are "millions" of bottles everywhere"
Yeah, it's not like there's millions of coins just left in the Wasteland or anything...
Bottles still take physical labor and effort to manufacture requiring both Time, Energy, and hard sweat to produce with a modicum of some skill to do correctly. Believe me if a bottlecap was worth more then the bottle for its utilitarian purposes then people would be trading wooden corks.
I do think water is a very important element of trade however, and most certainly in a Primary needs economy the king of currencies which as it stands already is a true currency in game as I often trade water regularly thanks to Solar's Bottling mod.
Remember as well that nobody trades Pennies, or Nickels, and the like in this mod they trade in marginalized quantities of Silver Dimes which does nothing to change the overall value of anything, but the "Perception" of value.
PS my wife likes your 4 leaf Clover Avatar...lol her words not mine. *_*
After having gained some deeper understanding of how scripts work with Consumable effects it was an easy enough measure to get Sunset Sasparilla to behave previously with no dime drop, and I even added a Bottle drop to go with the 1.1b release which I hope to have up before sunrise.
I am both cheeky and scholar, and I say Bravo! I never really understood why a "bottlecap" could somehow represent any monetary system, especially when there are "millions" of bottles everywhere so there must have been a cap that went with it, devaluating the cost of whatever was sold by it. Now we can at least have some similarities with real money.
On that note I haven't tested it yet, but I can only presume Solar's Bottling Mod which I regularly use will now require a Milk Bottle, and a Dime...*_*
Almost wondering if it would be prudent to later look into creating a work around that uses either scrap metal, or Cyberlazy's Craftmaster to produce some sort of alternative item although it may be more trouble then its worth.
The reason bottle caps are the main currency is because the Hub (a place in fallout 1) used these as a form of currency. The reasoning their value is higher than what you'd expect is because of the Hun's large water reserves. This backed the value of the bottle cap currency. When the NCR switch to the dollar, it was much more valuable than caps, until their gold reserves where destroyed. The mojave is very close to the core region, and trading with the Hub mostly still exist (as of 2281). That is why bottle caps are used in fallout 1, 2, and new vegas. Their's a similar, but not well known story with the capital but no one really knows the details.
Good explanation as any. Although on that premise Bottles themselves should be worth more then the Caps seeing as they actually hold water, and if the Bottle is broken now you have a rapidly inflated currency worth a fraction its original value purely for the sake that it no longer has as many containers to store water with.
I think I will put bottlecaps into the mod as a tradeable currency on the basis that it does hold percievable value albeit with a marginal buying power. Also will make Bottles worth more in the next update.
This does make concievable sense as well seeing as there were more bottles in use back in 2093 when the Hub was founded just 16 years after the bombs fell no less.
Great mod btw, just explaining the method to the madness. Although, I wish there was some better explanation as to why people in DC do it, sure there's a vague explanation in the lore but it lacks majorly.
Thanks I certainly have quite a ways to go, but I'm working to make it better asap. The wife thinks I fried my brain staring at the computer all day, but she still thinks its a cool mod.
Good news I modified the Bottlecap add effect for Nuka Cola to give you a Bottlecap every time you drink a Nuka cola. It doesn't work yet for Beer, Whiskey etc, and I will test to see if it works on Sunset Sasparilla very shortly.
In any event with V1.1 you will recieve a bottle cap in your miscellanious section which can be dropped, and traded with a base value of 1, but is subject to bartering skill. I intend to add a few more updates before releasing V1.1, but wanted to let you know that the Dime debacle has been rectified for the base game.
Mods that use bottlecaps for bottling water may, or may not be changed as a result... I will be looking into that in the future.
33 comments
This new version also includes replacers for some of the Pipboy icons used for coins, and even new content for the new Bottlecaps types to help with immersion. Remember any time you crouch while at a Sink, or other water source with the exception of open water you can fill up your empty bottles. This aspect however is not of my own design, therefore a special Thanks many times over to Solar Tails for letting me include his Bottled Water mod which I have thoroughly enjoyed for many moons.
http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/34800/?
It will feature a newer way of using bottlecaps based on the various comments, and sundries about Bottlecaps having value by people. There are 2 kinds of bottlecaps. You have Refurb Bottlecaps, and Worn Bottlecaps. Essentially when you drink anything (except moonshine ....may change) you get a Worn Bottlecap. Plus a bottle that can be reused as many times as you carry them. The name of course will change since the scripts are actually swapping out new items to effect per use. So they will eventually end up saying Glass Bottle instead of its original name, and weight.
Bottlecaps now largely trade based on your bartering skill at this time, but can be purchased for 1 cap each from most vendors in the game.
What I intend to do is increase the overall value of NCR, Pre-War and Legion currency available to vendors to make the game more immersive. I like to actually see, and proverbially touch my money rather then see a bunch of numbers telling me how much. There will of course be different versions of the esp since I like to have an economy that feels Practical, and sensible rather then overtly tongue in cheek which a portion of you seem to like more.
Sounds good for the spices.
Thank you, my new love will be the Tavor Carbine when they release it in .308.
Even so a bottle cap is marginally lighter then a dime but it also takes up about 3-4 times the volume. So for a backpacking type you would still need to carry around a sack the size of a gecko. I made the CAPs heavier for the sake of feeling like ....wow this shits heavy, but I can make a realistic weight value for the CAP Dimes that perhaps you guys will be more pleased with.
Certainly if I was a bottlecap carrying sort I'd have a pack brahmin everywhere I go full of bottlecaps.
In any event in 2.0 which I plan to put out before next week should be a bit more balanced for the style of play you guys probably like.
Also want to make better looking pipboy icons. I'd like to figure out what I need to do so they are sized more appropriately, but its a minor issue. I'm just sick of seeing a big ass dime repeatedly everytime I scan my inventory Kinda sad actually...spent 3 hours making that dime lol....Anyways I'll shoot a photo of some dimes on white with maybe a little baggy next to it for immersion purposes...clean it up a bit, and then convert to .dds should look much better.
Realistically, precious metal, spices, food items, B50 to B100, and etc, will be the new economy if a country's economy or the World Economy collapses, not bottle caps, paper money, nor coins that have very little precious metal inside them.
Spices might be something to look into for a later mod though if I created some recipes to work in conjunction with Craftmaster. Although it would require modeling, and some additional effort to do it well, but I suppose you could always have vendors, and loot that says "Jar of Tarragon." "Vial of Garlic" etc. That could be opened up, and used accordingly.
Nice Avatar by the way. Lol good ol .308 ^_^
But, super mutants, ghouls, gigantic irradiated cock roaches, mantis, scorpions and geckos are irrational as well, considering what we know of radiation today. Not to mention deathclaws, and all the other bizarre critters wandering the wastes. I won't even get into the absurdity of some of the weapons or even medical chems.
We are obviously not playing this game for realism. If we wanted more realism than we would be looking for one of those real war shooter games. I like bottle caps because they fit the genre and the back ground and the "canon" of the game. They are a cool form of currency rather than gold pieces. It is "tongue in cheek" money, which is the way of most of the items in the game. It all leans toward the funny or foolish a little bit. That is part of the fun of the game.
I can only carry 80-100 pounds I'm actually fixing to drop that amount to 50 in the future to challenge myself to do with less.... On my last playthrough I put in 156 hours, and logged 11 Humans killed, and I didn't really have a choice in those instances, killed about 1500 creatures over 4 years in game...So I was mostly of the persuasion...Badguys over there? Oh well I'll go elsewhere. Having your Actor LOD maxed is also a bonus.^_^
I used Cyberlazy's Craftmaster to survive, and scavenge to make whatever I needed rather then force myself into a gunfight I could avoid....
A thousand Caps weighs about 10 pounds in my game so I can't keep very much money on my person unless I cache it...And thats presuming I have money seeing as I tend to spend most of it on 3 meals a day, plus 2 bottles of water if I don't Hunt, Forage, or payup for food... In just 3 days I'll die...yes I know you can technically go 2 weeks to a month without food, but I feel that particular formula helps me keep it real.
I also tend to have a heavily gimped character to begin with usually emphasizing more on Repair, Lockpick, Medicine and stealth with some moderate speech. I like having a beneficial trade rather then being a gun for hire.
So like I said it really comes down to what sort of style your looking for. For me I don't like to feel special, ...I just want to be a bit sharper, and more keen then the average wasteland trash. I go out of my way to make sure my guy isn't an unstoppable badass. At least not right away that is.
Also good point on Counterfeiting Jaege...If the Gun Runners have all the tools to manufacture brand spanking new Precision made Weapons, and Ammunition it only seems fair someone could shave off a thin layer of sheet metal for a bottle cap. Another thing I would like to add is that the NCR's shift from a Gold backed currency to a paper currency is essentially a microcosm of what CAP Currencies, and real life trends in the value of money from the creation of the Federal Reserve in the winter of 1913 clear up to today.
"when there are "millions" of bottles everywhere"
Yeah, it's not like there's millions of coins just left in the Wasteland or anything...
I do think water is a very important element of trade however, and most certainly in a Primary needs economy the king of currencies which as it stands already is a true currency in game as I often trade water regularly thanks to Solar's Bottling mod.
Remember as well that nobody trades Pennies, or Nickels, and the like in this mod they trade in marginalized quantities of Silver Dimes which does nothing to change the overall value of anything, but the "Perception" of value.
PS my wife likes your 4 leaf Clover Avatar...lol her words not mine. *_*
Almost wondering if it would be prudent to later look into creating a work around that uses either scrap metal, or Cyberlazy's Craftmaster to produce some sort of alternative item although it may be more trouble then its worth.
I think I will put bottlecaps into the mod as a tradeable currency on the basis that it does hold percievable value albeit with a marginal buying power. Also will make Bottles worth more in the next update.
This does make concievable sense as well seeing as there were more bottles in use back in 2093 when the Hub was founded just 16 years after the bombs fell no less.
In any event with V1.1 you will recieve a bottle cap in your miscellanious section which can be dropped, and traded with a base value of 1, but is subject to bartering skill. I intend to add a few more updates before releasing V1.1, but wanted to let you know that the Dime debacle has been rectified for the base game.
Mods that use bottlecaps for bottling water may, or may not be changed as a result... I will be looking into that in the future.