Started a new playthrough with this mod, new units version; This is the first time I see Battanian and Sturgians winning anything. Khuzait is losing to Sturgians and Vlandians are losing to Battanians. Can't wait to see the inevitable Sturgian-Battanian war :)
Well I believe auto-resolve (simulation) is primarily balanced around the type of unit and it's tier. I don't think equipment is factored for battles taking place on the campaign map, but I could be wrong. So you may just be getting lucky? It's extremely rare I don't see Vlandia do well and I believe that's mostly due to their abundance of melee cavalry.
That said with the mod, when in actual battle, yes Battania is no longer a chump totally reliant on Fians. And as Sturgia in new units version you can be pretty confident their infantry will usually come out on top versus other infantry (thanks to Rekkr and Seggr), unless they are outclassed.
I would think the equipment matters, more protection the better but I have no idea how TW calculates things. New Styrgia noble infantry is kinda OP, last night I was in a few siege attacks, those guys had 30-40 kills each, closest was legionaries with 10 kills.
Hey mate, thanks for making the mod. I found it while looking for an option to make vlandian vanguard have any use, so I installed the vlandia new troops only. What I dont understand is, why did you take the bound crossbow from vlandian sharpshooters and replace it with a hickory one? its not a big issue but I liked them having those awesome high end crossbows. cheers
It was a balance thing. With the Bound Crossbow they were able to defeat most other T5 Archers with impunity, IIRC.
Ultimately I gave the Bound Crossbow only to the Elite Hired Crossbow mercenary in my other mod Revised Mercenaries. Felt that was more justified since they have 18 gold upkeep.
I didnt like how the khuzait lost their noble troop HA so i download all of the modules seperately It isnt specified anywhere that that is what you should do if you dont like one of the troops So ill try that and update the results
also theres a typo in the revised empire folder name
Khuzait Noble Troops should still be HA in the main file Revised Troops
Only download Revised Troops (New Units) if you're looking to shake things up a bit. The 2 main files are not meant to be installed at the same time, you're supposed to enable one or the other, otherwise the one you load last will be what goes into effect. Sorry if that wasn't clear description.
Wow this is really good! I had the original mod, but this is so much better. I really like the equipment flow through the different lines here. I wonder how differently the simulations (that all the youtubers do) would play out with these versions of the Tier 5 Troops. Since the armor is more balanced, the slightly different weapons, and slightly different skills.
I do have one ask, there is a Highland Reinforced Mail armor (battanian_chainmail_armor_d) that is in the game, but no Battania troop has it. It would be a great swap for one of the two Ranger Mail sets for the Veteran Skirmisher or maybe as a set on the Scout. It gains chest armor but not leg and arm armor. So, it would pair up well with a cape that gives both body and arm protection.
Legionary will still come out on top usually since it has most mace sets of any T5, that said if you use the Wildling correctly (fallback at right range, charge when out of ammunition) it will beat every T5 Shield Infantry unit 1v1 I believe. This is kind of intentional as the Legionary doesn't have a proper spear and pila by default can't be thrown anymore, so all it's good for is straight-up melee.
All T5 Shield Infantry should be fairly competitive, Oathsworn is probably weakest though. But like all things there's lots of little catches since cutting weapons like Swords and Axes are more useful against lower armor enemies.
I'll consider adding Highland Reinforced Mail for Veteran Skirmisher if I make any revisions
I want to go with the New Units version but I feel that Khuzait losing noble HA makes them lose their 'flavor'. Would loading the Khuzait stand-alone after the revised units work OK?
Though if that doesn't work I guess I could just use the Sturgia stand-alone since that's pretty much what I'm really after with this overhaul.
Looks great so far, besides the "small shield" for a light crossbowman which doesn't make historical sense and for combat meither.
The point of crossbows having large shields (pavise) was to protect from range attacks while aiming, especially during sieges. The shield was either struck into the ground or held by an assistant.
Especially Genoese crossbowmen have been known for that. So I'd love to fit this a bit more...
And really, replacing the Sturgia Heavy Spearman is a nerf to Sturgia. RIP Spearman.
It was more of a gameplay thing (not like units actually set Pavise shield down anyways). If you give Crossbowman 2 sets of bolts they basically make Bowman irrelevant since a) Crossbows have longer range b) Higher alpha damage gives them pretty big advantage. Basically Crossbowmen have shields so Bowmen retain benefit of more ammunition. Also having shields in Archer formation is beneficial in the event you need to block missile fire from superior Archer formation. Pros and cons. I didn't think it was fair to leave Vlandian Crossbowman with just 1 set of bolts compared to T3 Archers, so I gave them a small shield to "fit in" with Hardened and Sharpshooter.
Sturgia Heavy Spearman is still present in the plain Revised Troops version. Believe me the Rekkr is much more handy in a shield wall ultimately. Sturgia still needs to have sufficient cavalry, so I picked on Spearman as replacement. Honestly I usually found Heavy Axeman to be better most of the time anyways in vanilla, so it made sense to make that the defacto T5 Shield Infantry.
It probably will if you don't have any troop alterations for RBM. That said it's been over a year since I used RBM. Funny enough that's what initially got me started on this back in 2021.
Guess you can try it, I like a lot of what RBM has done, but I prefer 1.8 Armor Changes nowadays.
Most of my testing was done in vanilla campaign, though I did often have RTS Camera installed which slightly alters A.I. behavior in battle. It's possible in the long run "New Units" version of Sturgia could hurt the Kingdom, because T6 Cavalry has a significant bonus in Auto-Resolve over T6 Infantry I believe. Part of the reason Battania rarely does as well is thanks to the Fian Champion lower "weight", but the Seggr might have a better "weight" since it's not an Archer.
Not that Sturgia seems to do super amazing in vanilla from my experience anyways. I don't think it's a deal breaker though.
19 comments
This is the first time I see Battanian and Sturgians winning anything. Khuzait is losing to Sturgians and Vlandians are losing to Battanians. Can't wait to see the inevitable Sturgian-Battanian war :)
That said with the mod, when in actual battle, yes Battania is no longer a chump totally reliant on Fians. And as Sturgia in new units version you can be pretty confident their infantry will usually come out on top versus other infantry (thanks to Rekkr and Seggr), unless they are outclassed.
New Styrgia noble infantry is kinda OP, last night I was in a few siege attacks, those guys had 30-40 kills each, closest was legionaries with 10 kills.
cheers
Ultimately I gave the Bound Crossbow only to the Elite Hired Crossbow mercenary in my other mod Revised Mercenaries. Felt that was more justified since they have 18 gold upkeep.
I didnt like how the khuzait lost their noble troop HA so i download all of the modules seperately
It isnt specified anywhere that that is what you should do if you dont like one of the troops
So ill try that and update the results
also theres a typo in the revised empire folder name
Khuzait Noble Troops should still be HA in the main file Revised Troops
Only download Revised Troops (New Units) if you're looking to shake things up a bit. The 2 main files are not meant to be installed at the same time, you're supposed to enable one or the other, otherwise the one you load last will be what goes into effect. Sorry if that wasn't clear description.
I do have one ask, there is a Highland Reinforced Mail armor (battanian_chainmail_armor_d) that is in the game, but no Battania troop has it. It would be a great swap for one of the two Ranger Mail sets for the Veteran Skirmisher or maybe as a set on the Scout. It gains chest armor but not leg and arm armor. So, it would pair up well with a cape that gives both body and arm protection.
All T5 Shield Infantry should be fairly competitive, Oathsworn is probably weakest though. But like all things there's lots of little catches since cutting weapons like Swords and Axes are more useful against lower armor enemies.
I'll consider adding Highland Reinforced Mail for Veteran Skirmisher if I make any revisions
Though if that doesn't work I guess I could just use the Sturgia stand-alone since that's pretty much what I'm really after with this overhaul.
The point of crossbows having large shields (pavise) was to protect from range attacks while aiming, especially during sieges. The shield was either struck into the ground or held by an assistant.
Especially Genoese crossbowmen have been known for that. So I'd love to fit this a bit more...
And really, replacing the Sturgia Heavy Spearman is a nerf to Sturgia. RIP Spearman.
It was more of a gameplay thing (not like units actually set Pavise shield down anyways). If you give Crossbowman 2 sets of bolts they basically make Bowman irrelevant since a) Crossbows have longer range b) Higher alpha damage gives them pretty big advantage. Basically Crossbowmen have shields so Bowmen retain benefit of more ammunition. Also having shields in Archer formation is beneficial in the event you need to block missile fire from superior Archer formation. Pros and cons. I didn't think it was fair to leave Vlandian Crossbowman with just 1 set of bolts compared to T3 Archers, so I gave them a small shield to "fit in" with Hardened and Sharpshooter.
Sturgia Heavy Spearman is still present in the plain Revised Troops version. Believe me the Rekkr is much more handy in a shield wall ultimately. Sturgia still needs to have sufficient cavalry, so I picked on Spearman as replacement. Honestly I usually found Heavy Axeman to be better most of the time anyways in vanilla, so it made sense to make that the defacto T5 Shield Infantry.
Guess you can try it, I like a lot of what RBM has done, but I prefer 1.8 Armor Changes nowadays.
Not that Sturgia seems to do super amazing in vanilla from my experience anyways. I don't think it's a deal breaker though.