Obligatory OpenMW pleading post but I know it's a whole different thing. But still, it HURTS to see this working on OG Morrowind. Congrats on getting it working! Looks amazing.
Seem to have found a little issue or two. Only tested with combing enchantments.
1 Yes a soul gem is destroyed, but not the one being used. In my testing, I have a lesser soul gem with 40/200 and bought a bunch of empty lesser's. Combined a couple of items, worked well, a lesser soul gem was comsumed, but it was one of the empty ones. So I still had only one filled lesser soul gem, plus a dwindling supply of empty ones, thus I was able to keep enchanting, each time destroying an empty lesser soul gem. I see the destruction in the log as; [.\mods\beefstranger\transfer enchantments\menu\menuutil.lua:161] gem = Misc_SoulGem_Lesser Suggestion for 1, make it use the soul gem that was picked to put into the slot in the popup.
2 The value of the resultant item was never increased.
Suggestion for 2, to stop exploit make the new value less than the equivalently enchanted item you can buy, but still increase the item value as it has been enchanted. Yes there will be a net gain, but if the right soul gem is destroyed, the gain would be payment for going out and filling a soul gem.
3 The price of adding an enchantment was tiny. Note I kept on adding enchantments to the same item, each enchantment came from cheap to buy items. I ended up with something that was doing many many things, one of which was poison 41 to 100. Very easy to do when say buying throwing stars with small poison enchantments. (41 is fairly small with 3+ as the small value).
Suggestions for 3, make it harder and harder to enchant something that is already enchanted. example, item does poison 1 to 3, add a poison enchantment to it for an additional 1 to 3, normal cost. Then add another poison 1 to 3, slightly increase the cost since item is already 2 to 6. Since I believe there may be no way to track the number of times the same item has been enchanted, it would have to be a function of the resultant enchantments. example, item does poison 1 to 3, add poison 1 to 3, would cost less than adding poison 5 to 7 to the same item.
Then we have the case of adding different enchantments. I suggest that adding shock 1 to 3 damage onto an item that already does poison 3 to 9 damage would be hugely more expensive than adding poison 1 to 3 to it. My reasoning being that to defend against poison is one thing, but defending against poison and shock is two things.
There is also the matter of combing enchantments that cross item types. example, combing a dagger to a dagger should be cheaper than stuffing the daggers enchantment into say a long sword. Rather than being a function of the resultant raw damage amount how about making it a standard cross cost, varying between cross types, ie flat cost for dagger to long sword being a different cost than dagger to mace or two handed sword. Or it that is a bit like hard work, since there are many many select 2 from n items when n is large, how about only allowing smaller to bigger, say based on weight? That would allow dagger to dagger, dagger to sword, but not sword to dagger? Bear in mind that I am taking about combine not transfer.
ATM, I ended up with a mega item for pitence. Feels wrong for the play I am personally aiming form. It is kinda purist, anti cheese, but with some reasoning, like, yes I should be able to craft my own spells with a trainer, yes I should be able to fiddle with enchantments myself, but not end up with what I currently have, a god like weapon without working damn hard for it.
Other than that, great mod :) Apologies for the wall.
Could a similar mod be made for transferring scroll enchantments, or even learning spells from scrolls? I have no idea how difficult such is, and am merely asking.
I actually had this exact thing working in another mod i was working on, but ended up abandoning that project. If i get the time I can definitely see about just making another mod that only does the scroll spell learning, Itll definitely be a different mod than than this one though
Hi. I'm not getting the latest menu options. I installed the last version you uploaded here but my MCM doesn't match the screenshot you uploaded, even after installing and unninstalling your mod. Is there some kind of "cache" in MWSE/MCM that I need to clean?
Could you also make it so that the new items receives the same ID and sourceMod as the originals, or would that meddle with all of the same item? Or force it to receive the same tooltips as the originals.
I really enjoyed the 1.3 release of this mod - it lets me take advantage of artifacts on any build.
1.44 seems to be working correctly, but the mod config menu buttons all show --- rather than text so I don't know what options I'm actually using. The text on each button stays as --- even when I click on them. (The same thing happens when trying the 1.42 release).
Have you updated your MWSE lately? Not sure if thats the cause, but theres been a lot of updates/changes to the MCM parts of MWSE this past month so maybe thats causing it. Also what language do you play the game in?
in the meantime heres a screenshot of the latest settings
Tried your 1.4 release. Nice to see the implementations and hope I helped more than annoyed you.
Alas, I tried combining the enchantments and it didn't quite work out. Both of the items were made by drip and had fortify short blade and mercantile, one by 6 and 6 and another by 4 and 4, both constant effect.The resulting item had fortify short blade by 20 and mercantile by 6, instead of 10 points in both. I toggled on the option to allow combining the magnitude before that. With that combine magnitude toggle off, it stayed by 6/6, as expected.
Hmm, i didnt do much testing with Constant effect combining, theres a chance its not working right. Though ive havent tried anything with drip, so i could be a conflict, ill look into it.
Also dont worry youve helped a lot, and im always open to suggestions
I havent been able to recreate the bug with vanilla constant enchants, and its not the easiest to test with drip because i have to go around and find these items, but Ill start a save file with drip and try it out when i come across some.
Also Grab the hotfix, i found a problem with Azuras Star when testing, it shouldnt effect saves though so a reload and update should fix everything, let me know if you used it and if it still has the soul in it, itll say its the same creature ie: Winged Twilight, but the bug made the Winged Twilight Have a soul of 0
Hmm, maybe create two items with enchantments equivalent to my example? Then you'll know if it's due to how drip make enchantments, or if it's due to multiple CE overall. I don't know how DRIP makes enchantments, but maybe it's how you summed things? I don't know how you coded it, but does your mod sum the whole thing or separates each part of each enchantment and sums each same effect. Because it didn't give me just 10 in short blade and skipped mercantile, it summed mercantile in the short blade value and skipped altering the original mercantile item. I.E., think of it like a vector of x,y, and instead of separating x1,x2,y1 and y2, your code made x3 = x1+x2 + y1+y2 and y3=y1. I'll see your code's section on combining and try to get any insight on the fix, but I'm very new to MWSE.
Also, I can recreate the problem on my end and give you a log, if your mod logs it.
Edit:
My hunch is that you aggregated the values in menuUtil.lua's combinedEffects (lines 182-195) and then made the for/if comparison (198-221), thus aggregating all values under the first compared effect, in this case, short blade. Likely the same thing would happen even if it's a on cast enchantment, as long as it has more than 2 effects and the magnitudes are combined.
pretty sure i found the problem, and why i had trouble recreating it. Its because all fortify skill effects are actually the same effect, just with a different skill it effects, I should be able to check the skill and only add them if the skill matches
Edit: I think ive fixed it, as a bonus i added a config slider for the Constant Enchant Cost
is it still happening for skills? That should be fixed, it is for me atleast. But looking into it I found i didnt account for attributes. So it did it happen again for you with the exact example you gave at first or was it with a different item with fortify attributes?
No, it was with fortify skills, two items made by drip with CE.
But I'll try later with vanilla items, or at least non-drip.
Unrelated to this, but consider assigning this mod to the gameplay category, in my opinion. While it has UI elements (well made, by the way), they're merely the means to transfer or combine enchantments.
hmm, im not sure why its still doing it with skills for you, ive tried a dozen combinations with drip enchants and skills always seem to work, Ive fixed attributes so ill upload that patch and hopefully itll fix both for you
Tested the new build and keeping the original item is neat, it's just like RoeCocoa said, pretty much having a souvenir/memento. Combines well with DRIP.
Still, I got two suggestions: 1) Should the item with original enchantment not be destroyed, it should have it's price recalculated to match the un-enchanted version; 2) So far, the soulgem is never consumed (at least with the toggle to keep the original item), even without using Azura's Star. My suggestion is, give it a MCM toggle: the soulgem might be consumed, and give it a chance of not being consumed, depending on some factors, such as: 2.1) Player enchantment level; 2.2) Luck; 2.3) Player Level; 2.4) Intelligence (because it governs the enchantment skill) or willpower; 2.5) The difference between the minimum enchantment power needed. For example: 300 (CE) and a Golden Saint's soul (400) would have a better chance of not consuming the soulgem if used instead of a winged twilight, albeit both are sufficient to make the transference. 2.6) A mix of some/all of the prior topics. Of course, even with that toggle on, Azura's Star should never be consumed.
Ive been doing a rework of a lot of stuff under the hood, and noticed that I never actually set the soulgem to be destroyed, itll be fixed in the next up im tidying up for now which will include a handful of new features/bugfixes.
While it wont be in the next update, I do like the idea of using luck/enchant/int for either saving the gem, or maybe even effecting magnitudes/cost/max charge
Ill also look into the cost of the item, that might not be on the table though if prices arent easy to auto calculate.
Also thanks for mentioning Azuras star i forgot to setup a check for it(That will definitely be in the next update)
Hmm, having better enchantment skill and other stuff like I mentioned could reduce the needed soul level for the required enchantment transfer (say 300 to 250ish). But due to how souls are discrete values, it's hard to say how much that will actually change in practice (I.E. not many souls between 200 and 300).
So, personally, while having both features would be nice, having the one to potentially not use the soulgem would be the most impactful for me, because if you have good enough stats to decrease the soul value needed, capturing a larger soul should be no problem. Although it shouldn't also be a problem to get more soulgems and capture more souls... but at least would save some time.
In the end, it's a single player game that can be easily cheated/exploited or simply get too much gold or items by just playing well and having a bit of patience, so balance shouldn't be though as something sacred in modding. More like a nice plus.
This mod has been out for less than a week and I already consider it a must-have. It's especially handy since I play with Kildozery's Quest Redux mods, where many of the high-level faction quests reward CE items with useful enchantments but unfortunate base stats and appearance.
On a related note, could we have an option to consume the soul gem and keep an unenchanted version of the original enchanted item? There are some items that I want to hold onto as souvenirs, but they're the wrong armor class or they fit in a slot already occupied by something I need more.
Not sure its exactly as you wanted but I added an option in the latest version that lets you keep the original item after transfering the enchant. The original item loses its enchant.
Possible to make it so that you destroy the item and acquire the effect permanently on your character? And maybe some sort of a punishment for doing it to even it out (either insane gold cost - the magic requires money xD,) or something similar?
44 comments
1 Yes a soul gem is destroyed, but not the one being used.
In my testing, I have a lesser soul gem with 40/200 and bought a bunch of empty lesser's.
Combined a couple of items, worked well, a lesser soul gem was comsumed, but it was one of the empty ones.
So I still had only one filled lesser soul gem, plus a dwindling supply of empty ones, thus I was able to keep enchanting, each time destroying an empty lesser soul gem.
I see the destruction in the log as;
[.\mods\beefstranger\transfer enchantments\menu\menuutil.lua:161] gem = Misc_SoulGem_LesserSuggestion for 1, make it use the soul gem that was picked to put into the slot in the popup.
2 The value of the resultant item was never increased.
Suggestion for 2, to stop exploit make the new value less than the equivalently enchanted item you can buy, but still increase the item value as it has been enchanted. Yes there will be a net gain, but if the right soul gem is destroyed, the gain would be payment for going out and filling a soul gem.
3 The price of adding an enchantment was tiny.
Note I kept on adding enchantments to the same item, each enchantment came from cheap to buy items.
I ended up with something that was doing many many things, one of which was poison 41 to 100.
Very easy to do when say buying throwing stars with small poison enchantments. (41 is fairly small with 3+ as the small value).
Suggestions for 3, make it harder and harder to enchant something that is already enchanted.
example, item does poison 1 to 3, add a poison enchantment to it for an additional 1 to 3, normal cost.
Then add another poison 1 to 3, slightly increase the cost since item is already 2 to 6.
Since I believe there may be no way to track the number of times the same item has been enchanted, it would have to be a function of the resultant enchantments.
example, item does poison 1 to 3, add poison 1 to 3, would cost less than adding poison 5 to 7 to the same item.
Then we have the case of adding different enchantments.
I suggest that adding shock 1 to 3 damage onto an item that already does poison 3 to 9 damage would be hugely more expensive than adding poison 1 to 3 to it.
My reasoning being that to defend against poison is one thing, but defending against poison and shock is two things.
There is also the matter of combing enchantments that cross item types.
example, combing a dagger to a dagger should be cheaper than stuffing the daggers enchantment into say a long sword.
Rather than being a function of the resultant raw damage amount how about making it a standard cross cost, varying between cross types, ie flat cost for dagger to long sword being a different cost than dagger to mace or two handed sword.
Or it that is a bit like hard work, since there are many many select 2 from n items when n is large, how about only allowing smaller to bigger, say based on weight?
That would allow dagger to dagger, dagger to sword, but not sword to dagger?
Bear in mind that I am taking about combine not transfer.
ATM, I ended up with a mega item for pitence. Feels wrong for the play I am personally aiming form.
It is kinda purist, anti cheese, but with some reasoning, like, yes I should be able to craft my own spells with a trainer, yes I should be able to fiddle with enchantments myself, but not end up with what I currently have, a god like weapon without working damn hard for it.
Other than that, great mod :)
Apologies for the wall.
I recently updated to the newest version and as far as i know i have the newest MWSE version
any idea how to fix this?
Edit: New Version is uploaded
Could you also make it so that the new items receives the same ID and sourceMod as the originals, or would that meddle with all of the same item?
Or force it to receive the same tooltips as the originals.
1.44 seems to be working correctly, but the mod config menu buttons all show --- rather than text so I don't know what options I'm actually using. The text on each button stays as --- even when I click on them. (The same thing happens when trying the 1.42 release).
in the meantime heres a screenshot of the latest settings
Its also been updated in the screenshots
Once again, thanks for the great mod.
Tried your 1.4 release. Nice to see the implementations and hope I helped more than annoyed you.
Alas, I tried combining the enchantments and it didn't quite work out. Both of the items were made by drip and had fortify short blade and mercantile, one by 6 and 6 and another by 4 and 4, both constant effect.The resulting item had fortify short blade by 20 and mercantile by 6, instead of 10 points in both. I toggled on the option to allow combining the magnitude before that. With that combine magnitude toggle off, it stayed by 6/6, as expected.
Also dont worry youve helped a lot, and im always open to suggestions
Also Grab the hotfix, i found a problem with Azuras Star when testing, it shouldnt effect saves though so a reload and update should fix everything, let me know if you used it and if it still has the soul in it, itll say its the same creature ie: Winged Twilight, but the bug made the Winged Twilight Have a soul of 0
I don't know how you coded it, but does your mod sum the whole thing or separates each part of each enchantment and sums each same effect. Because it didn't give me just 10 in short blade and skipped mercantile, it summed mercantile in the short blade value and skipped altering the original mercantile item. I.E., think of it like a vector of x,y, and instead of separating x1,x2,y1 and y2, your code made x3 = x1+x2 + y1+y2 and y3=y1.
I'll see your code's section on combining and try to get any insight on the fix, but I'm very new to MWSE.
Also, I can recreate the problem on my end and give you a log, if your mod logs it.
Edit:
My hunch is that you aggregated the values in menuUtil.lua's combinedEffects (lines 182-195) and then made the for/if comparison (198-221), thus aggregating all values under the first compared effect, in this case, short blade. Likely the same thing would happen even if it's a on cast enchantment, as long as it has more than 2 effects and the magnitudes are combined.
Edit: I think ive fixed it, as a bonus i added a config slider for the Constant Enchant Cost
I'll try it out later. Congratulations on making your mods even better at such pace.
But I'll try later with vanilla items, or at least non-drip.
Unrelated to this, but consider assigning this mod to the gameplay category, in my opinion. While it has UI elements (well made, by the way), they're merely the means to transfer or combine enchantments.
Tested the new build and keeping the original item is neat, it's just like RoeCocoa said, pretty much having a souvenir/memento. Combines well with DRIP.
Still, I got two suggestions:
1) Should the item with original enchantment not be destroyed, it should have it's price recalculated to match the un-enchanted version;
2) So far, the soulgem is never consumed (at least with the toggle to keep the original item), even without using Azura's Star. My suggestion is, give it a MCM toggle: the soulgem might be consumed, and give it a chance of not being consumed, depending on some factors, such as:
2.1) Player enchantment level;
2.2) Luck;
2.3) Player Level;
2.4) Intelligence (because it governs the enchantment skill) or willpower;
2.5) The difference between the minimum enchantment power needed. For example: 300 (CE) and a Golden Saint's soul (400) would have a better chance of not consuming the soulgem if used instead of a winged twilight, albeit both are sufficient to make the transference.
2.6) A mix of some/all of the prior topics. Of course, even with that toggle on, Azura's Star should never be consumed.
While it wont be in the next update, I do like the idea of using luck/enchant/int for either saving the gem, or maybe even effecting magnitudes/cost/max charge
Ill also look into the cost of the item, that might not be on the table though if prices arent easy to auto calculate.
Also thanks for mentioning Azuras star i forgot to setup a check for it(That will definitely be in the next update)
So, personally, while having both features would be nice, having the one to potentially not use the soulgem would be the most impactful for me, because if you have good enough stats to decrease the soul value needed, capturing a larger soul should be no problem. Although it shouldn't also be a problem to get more soulgems and capture more souls... but at least would save some time.
In the end, it's a single player game that can be easily cheated/exploited or simply get too much gold or items by just playing well and having a bit of patience, so balance shouldn't be though as something sacred in modding. More like a nice plus.
On a related note, could we have an option to consume the soul gem and keep an unenchanted version of the original enchanted item? There are some items that I want to hold onto as souvenirs, but they're the wrong armor class or they fit in a slot already occupied by something I need more.