hey, i really like the mod, but im running into some issues where it doesnt seem to modify the armor pieces from this mod, among others: https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/51651 any idea what could be the issue?
I just installed the Sacred Necromancer Armor mod you linked, and the armor was rebalanced correctly with my current setup. Here are a few things I can think of that might be going wrong:
MWSE might be out of date. Run "MWSE-Update.exe" in your base Morrowind install directory just in case.
If you've changed any of this mod's settings, they might not be working how you'd expect.
There might be another mod interfering with this mod.
After running "MWSE-Update.exe", here's what you can do to investigate the issue:
Open the "Mod Config" menu, click on the "BYO Rebalance 1: Main" section, and change "Logging Enabled" to "Yes".
Exit the game completely, restart the game, load any save, and then quit the game again. We do this just to make sure we're starting fresh.
Find and open the "MWSE.log" file in your base Morrowind install directory. You can open it with any text editor, it's basically the same as a .txt file.
Search for the text "_RV_Sacred_" (without the quotes) in the file, that will match the IDs of all the Sacred Necromancer armor pieces.
For each armor piece, check to make sure the Weight Class and Tier were detected correctly. The file states how it detected the Weight Class and Tier for each item. If either of them were detected incorrectly, you'll need to tweak your "Detect WC", "Detect Tier 1", or "Detect Tier 2" settings.
For each armor piece, check to make sure the stats were updated how you'd expect. For AR, Weight, Enchant, Health, and Value, the file shows the change from the original value to the new value, "Old -> New". If the new values are incorrect, you'll need to tweak your "Slot", "Weight Class", or "Tier" settings.
Here's what the Sacred Necromancer Boots look like in my file as an example: [BYO Rebalance v1.0] Armor ID: _RV_Sacred_Necro_Boots | Name: Sacred Necromancer Boots [BYO Rebalance v1.0] Source Mod: Sacred_Necromancer.esp [BYO Rebalance v1.0] Slot: Boots [BYO Rebalance v1.0] Bound Item: false [BYO Rebalance v1.0] Weight Class: L | Original [BYO Rebalance v1.0] Tier: 4 | Detect Tier by AR: 35 | Max AR: 39 [BYO Rebalance v1.0] Included In Rebalance [BYO Rebalance v1.0] AR: 35 -> 30 [BYO Rebalance v1.0] Weight: 2.50 -> 4.80 [BYO Rebalance v1.0] Enchant: 3.0 -> 8.0 [BYO Rebalance v1.0] Health: 200 -> 300 [BYO Rebalance v1.0] Value: 500 -> 3000 If you can't find the text "_RV_Sacred_" in the file at all, something major probably went wrong, either in this mod, or another MWSE mod. See if you can spot any error messages in the "MWSE.log" file.
Another thing I just thought of: Custom-enchanted items aren't rebalanced by this mod after they've been created. I've been brainstorming how I can fix this, but it's going to be fairly complicated. Custom-enchanted items are basically considered to be completely new items, and aren't linked to the base item in any way.
I just released a new version of the mod that supports rebalancing custom-enchanted items (enabled via the "Rebalance Custom-Enchanted Items" setting on the "Home" tab of the "BYO Rebalance 1: Main" section). So if your issues were caused by custom-enchanted items, that new feature should solve the problem.
first off, thank you for putting in all the work. looking at my logs, i did manage to find out what went wrong: i was using the Onion - Layered Accessories (https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/50352) mod, which adds extra armor slots and Fashionwind - MWSE Glasses and Goggles V2 (https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/50448). as soon as the rebalancing script arrived at one of the armor pieces from these mods, it had an error (should have copied the error report, but forgot to) and skipped past any other armor pieces past that and went straight to clothes. so i uninstalled the conflicting mods and now its running fine. no clue why i didnt notice any other armor pieces not being rebalanced correctly. havent had any issues with custom enchants, afaik, but i do have some ideas for things that might be good ideas for further versions, if you accept suggestions: - the prices of pre-enchanted items always seemed very arbitrary and often low to me. after all, it is fairly pricy to enchant anything, even if the base item is low-grade. i know the mod has a multiplyer option, but i think it would be good to also be able to add a flat amount to the base price that is then multiplied. (edit: i ended up just increasing prices of the base- items, which already did a lot) - have the balancing script only skip the item that caused the error, not the entire category. - adding a more convenient way to add specific items to tier-/weight-classes than having to write in the text, im having weird issues with writing anything in that box, while the whitelist/blacklist style list where you just have to click to do it, works great.
anyway, problem solved, thanks for the support, have a nice day.
Thank you for the feedback! I'm definitely open to suggestions.
I'll try installing those two mods and look into the solving the issue. It's probably related to the new armor slots.
In a pre-release version of the mod, I experimented with an "Enchanted Item - Min Value" setting, I'll look at adding that, or a setting like you suggested, back in. The vanilla Morrowind enchanted item prices are all over the place, so I was a bit stumped on how to recalculate those prices from scratch.
The mod config paragraph fields are definitely finnicky. Shift+Enter always adds a new line at the very bottom of the textbox, rather than where your cursor was at. Unfortunately, my options are very limited. I can only choose from a small set of predefined input types. The include/exclude list has the downside of needing to be a predefined list of selectable items (most mods use it for a list of item IDs), and there's no way to assign different Weight Classes or Tiers to each selected item. I could still theoretically use it if I had a different include/exclude list for every Weight Class and every Tier, but that results in a ton of pages dedicated to those include/exclude lists. If you want to add individual items to the paragraph field, you can still specify items by full or partial item ID.
Here's a comparison of three different ways to handle Sacred Necromancer items: M:_RV_Sacred_Necro_Boots M:_RV_Sacred_Necro_ M:Sacred Necromancer
I just released a new version of the mod that is compatible with MWSE mods that add new armor slots, clothing slots, and/or weapon types. These unexpected items are now ignored. I also added three "Enchanted Item - Base Value" settings that let you add a flat amount to the value of pre-enchanted items.
tried it, works as advertised. very nice. though i still think it would be better if the extra base value was affected by the multiplier as well. my reasoning being that some of the powerful enchanted items you can get actually have such low unenchanted values (a wooden ring for example). having the added base value multiplied would even that out a lot more, especially for the clothes category, where most of the price increase comes from the multiplier. now, if i wanted to come up with a really complicated solution, then id probably make something like this: (base item + flat bonus) * (1 + max charge / "some number" or a flat value for passive enchants ) * (1 + enchant point cost - max base item enchant point capacity) or maybe some of that should be added, not multiplied. im not sure. no clue how doable any of that would be though, and how much it would slow the game down. i have no coding knowledge.
I set up the formula the way I did because I thought it was a little simpler to understand. You can achieve the same end result by setting "Value Base" to a higher number. Here's a quick example:
Current Formula: 50 or 10000 UnenchantedValue 300 ValueBase 1.2 ValueMult
EnchantedValue = (UnenchantedValue + ValueBase) * ValueMult 360 = (50 + 250) * 1.2 12300 = (10000 + 250) * 1.2 I do like your idea of a more complex formula. I've considered it before, but I couldn't figure out how to value constant effect enchantments (because I didn't see an easy way in MWSE to figure out how powerful they were). But now I've got that figured out, so all that's left is to come up with the formula. What do you think of the formula below? It essentially adds the value of the enchantment to the value of the item, so a weak enchantment on a weak item adds the same value as a weak enchantment on a powerful item: EnchantedValue = ValueBase + UnenchantedValue * ValueMultiplier + MaxCharge * ValuePerMaxCharge + ConstantEffectCost * ValuePerConstantEffectCost
For "Constant Effect" items, MaxCharge is zero. For "On Hit", or "On Use" items, ConstantEffectCost is zero. The "MaxCharge * ValuePerMaxCharge" line seems weird at first, but it's essentially a simplified version of: ChargeCost * ValuePerChargeCost * EnchantmentUses ChargeCost * ValuePerChargeCost * (MaxCharge / ChargeCost) ChargeCost cancels itself out, so you're left with "ValuePerChargeCost * MaxCharge"
i knew i should have added some examples to make clearer what i was trying to point out. i think its a bigger deal with clothes and rings, since the multiplyer for those is 10 by default. or maybe it just feels awkward to me, something about raising the floor by a huge constant number and adding the base value on top with a reduced multiplyer. its not that important anyway, i already more or less dealt with it by increasing prices for lower tier items.
anyway, about your new formula: it looks good, separating the price of the raw item and the enchantment is probably the best thing to do. but im not sure what youre actually referring to in the second half. maxcharge should be the number added by a soulgem while enchanting, basically the full "mana pool" of the item, correct? so far, so good. and am i dumb or is valuepermaxcharge really just a price multiplyer for the strength of the soul used, so to say? so your formula is missing biggest part of the enchantment, the points-value of the effect that represents its strength (tangent:
Spoiler:
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which is normally limited by the base item used, but i checked and for a lot of the unique items its just some placeholder value like a 1, so my idea of increasing the price for an "over-enchantment" wouldnt work and it would be superfluous because you decoupled item and enchantment, which is better
), so having a value for that is probably even more important than the pure maxcharge value, since a low amount of uses can be compensated for. i cant really think of anything else to add to it right now.
I just released yet another new version of the mod that implements the new formula. With this version, I updated the Enchanted Item default values to:
Recalculate Value: Yes Value Base: 0 Value Multiplier: 1.00 Value Per Max Charge: 10 Value Per Effect Cost: 10 Value Scale 1.00
This ends up resulting in some really nice and intuitive item prices, and I'm really happy with how it turned out overall. Thank you for all of your feedback!
In the second half I was trying to explain, that while super unintuitive, "MaxCharge * ValuePerMaxCharge" is taking into account both the ChargeCost of the item and the number of uses you can get out of it before it needs to recharge. This is assuming that 5 points of fire damage, used 10 times, is roughly as useful as 10 points of fire damage, used 5 times. The latter should probably be more valuable (but probably not twice as valuable), but I can't think of a simple formula that accounts for that. And interestingly, this 5x10 vs 10x5 scenario almost never comes up for pre-enchanted items.
For pre-enchanted items, MaxCharge is almost always 5x (for Cast When Used) or 10x (for Cast When Strikes) the ChargeCost, so MaxCharge and ChargeCost increase at roughly same rate. These 5x and 10x multipliers come from the "Auto Calculate" checkbox when making Enchantments in the construction set. ChargeCost (before it's reduced by the character's Enchant skill), is equal to the point value you see on the enchanting screen that represents the enchantment strength. I ended up calling this value "EffectCost" for constant effect enchantments, even though it's essentially the same thing as ChargeCost.
happy i could help make something i want to use and thank you for making it :D yeah, youre right, the use cost already accounts for the effect strength. i think i was just too tired and rambly at the time to get that lol checked out the new version, its great! the only thing id want now is value per x sliders that go past 100 because for some reason i want things to be even more expensive, especially constant effects, because they seem to be way cheaper than active ones.
Dang, I'm surprised you want enchanted items to be that expensive. I initially had those sliders go up to 1000, but after looking at the results with a value of 10, I thought that would be overkill. Have you looked through MWSE.log to get a general idea for how much things cost? You can search for "Enchant: Enchanted" in the file to find all the enchanted items. It's also important to note that these settings don't affect custom-enchanted items, I just wanted to make sure that was clear too. Here are a few examples:
With "Value Per X" at 10 (with other settings at defaults): 6 -> 12 Cruel Sparkarrow 15 -> 220 Cruel Sparkblade 125 -> 340 Demon Tanto 6,500 -> 9,500 Glass Jinkblade 95,000 -> 161,400 Chrysamere 21 -> 403 Amulet of Almsivi Intervention 20,000 -> 6,410 Belt of Heartfire 500 -> 10,016 Boots of Blinding Speed 15,000 -> 25,500 Masque of Clavicus Vile 120,000 -> 194,500 Ebony Mail
With "Value Per X" at 100 (with other settings at defaults): 6 -> 102 Cruel Sparkarrow 15 -> 2,020 Cruel Sparkblade 125 -> 3,040 Demon Tanto 6,500 -> 27,500 Glass Jinkblade 95,000 -> 264,000 Chrysamere 21 -> 4,003 Amulet of Almsivi Intervention 20,000 -> 64,010 Belt of Heartfire 500 -> 100,016 Boots of Blinding Speed 15,000 -> 39,000 Masque of Clavicus Vile 120,000 -> 325,000 Ebony Mail
What values are you shooting for? I'm not sure I want to bump the max value of those sliders up any higher, because values of 100 already result in enchantments that are worth more than vanilla artifact items. Worst case scenario, you can always update the config file directly. So long as you don't touch the slider on the in-game UI, the setting will stay at the chosen value.
yeah, i know my economy is weird, ive set all the prices a lot higher, especially for lower grade items lol. and for on hit/on use items the 0-100 slider is fine, its the constant effects that are priced too low in relation to what im working with, at least for my taste.
Hi! I noticed that with the default settings this gives my bound weapons and armor full Daedric weight. I could of course add them to an exclusion list but I assume it's unintentional?
That is definitely not intentional, thank you for letting me know! I'm seeing the issue with weapons on my end, but not with armor. Do you perhaps have another mod that changes the default names or weights or bound armor pieces? This mod currently looks for items whose names starts with "Bound" and have zero weight. I might end up hard-coding the IDs for the vanilla items instead, and rely on this detection only for bound armor/weapons added by other mods. I'll try to get a fix out later today.
The mod has been updated! All bound item issues should now be fixed. The new detection logic doesn't rely on item weight at all, so that is no longer a concern. See the changelogs on the "Description" tab for the full details.
25 comments
any idea what could be the issue?
After running "MWSE-Update.exe", here's what you can do to investigate the issue:
Here's what the Sacred Necromancer Boots look like in my file as an example:
[BYO Rebalance v1.0] Armor ID: _RV_Sacred_Necro_Boots | Name: Sacred Necromancer Boots[BYO Rebalance v1.0] Source Mod: Sacred_Necromancer.esp
[BYO Rebalance v1.0] Slot: Boots
[BYO Rebalance v1.0] Bound Item: false
[BYO Rebalance v1.0] Weight Class: L | Original
[BYO Rebalance v1.0] Tier: 4 | Detect Tier by AR: 35 | Max AR: 39
[BYO Rebalance v1.0] Included In Rebalance
[BYO Rebalance v1.0] AR: 35 -> 30
[BYO Rebalance v1.0] Weight: 2.50 -> 4.80
[BYO Rebalance v1.0] Enchant: 3.0 -> 8.0
[BYO Rebalance v1.0] Health: 200 -> 300
[BYO Rebalance v1.0] Value: 500 -> 3000
If you can't find the text "_RV_Sacred_" in the file at all, something major probably went wrong, either in this mod, or another MWSE mod. See if you can spot any error messages in the "MWSE.log" file.
looking at my logs, i did manage to find out what went wrong: i was using the Onion - Layered Accessories (https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/50352) mod, which adds extra armor slots and Fashionwind - MWSE Glasses and Goggles V2 (https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/50448). as soon as the rebalancing script arrived at one of the armor pieces from these mods, it had an error (should have copied the error report, but forgot to) and skipped past any other armor pieces past that and went straight to clothes. so i uninstalled the conflicting mods and now its running fine. no clue why i didnt notice any other armor pieces not being rebalanced correctly.
havent had any issues with custom enchants, afaik, but i do have some ideas for things that might be good ideas for further versions, if you accept suggestions:
- the prices of pre-enchanted items always seemed very arbitrary and often low to me. after all, it is fairly pricy to enchant anything, even if the base item is low-grade. i know the mod has a multiplyer option, but i think it would be good to also be able to add a flat amount to the base price that is then multiplied. (edit: i ended up just increasing prices of the base- items, which already did a lot)
- have the balancing script only skip the item that caused the error, not the entire category.
- adding a more convenient way to add specific items to tier-/weight-classes than having to write in the text, im having weird issues with writing anything in that box, while the whitelist/blacklist style list where you just have to click to do it, works great.
anyway, problem solved, thanks for the support, have a nice day.
I'll try installing those two mods and look into the solving the issue. It's probably related to the new armor slots.
In a pre-release version of the mod, I experimented with an "Enchanted Item - Min Value" setting, I'll look at adding that, or a setting like you suggested, back in. The vanilla Morrowind enchanted item prices are all over the place, so I was a bit stumped on how to recalculate those prices from scratch.
The mod config paragraph fields are definitely finnicky. Shift+Enter always adds a new line at the very bottom of the textbox, rather than where your cursor was at. Unfortunately, my options are very limited. I can only choose from a small set of predefined input types. The include/exclude list has the downside of needing to be a predefined list of selectable items (most mods use it for a list of item IDs), and there's no way to assign different Weight Classes or Tiers to each selected item. I could still theoretically use it if I had a different include/exclude list for every Weight Class and every Tier, but that results in a ton of pages dedicated to those include/exclude lists. If you want to add individual items to the paragraph field, you can still specify items by full or partial item ID.
Here's a comparison of three different ways to handle Sacred Necromancer items:
M:_RV_Sacred_Necro_Boots
M:_RV_Sacred_Necro_
M:Sacred Necromancer
I hope you have a nice day too!
though i still think it would be better if the extra base value was affected by the multiplier as well. my reasoning being that some of the powerful enchanted items you can get actually have such low unenchanted values (a wooden ring for example). having the added base value multiplied would even that out a lot more, especially for the clothes category, where most of the price increase comes from the multiplier.
now, if i wanted to come up with a really complicated solution, then id probably make something like this:
(base item + flat bonus) * (1 + max charge / "some number" or a flat value for passive enchants ) * (1 + enchant point cost - max base item enchant point capacity)
or maybe some of that should be added, not multiplied. im not sure.
no clue how doable any of that would be though, and how much it would slow the game down. i have no coding knowledge.
Current Formula:
50 or 10000 UnenchantedValue
300 ValueBase
1.2 ValueMult
EnchantedValue = UnenchantedValue * ValueMult + ValueBase
360 = 50 * 1.2 + 300
12300 = 10000 * 1.2 + 300
Alternate Formula:
50 or 10000 UnenchantedValue
250 ValueBase
1.2 ValueMult
EnchantedValue = (UnenchantedValue + ValueBase) * ValueMult
360 = (50 + 250) * 1.2
12300 = (10000 + 250) * 1.2
I do like your idea of a more complex formula. I've considered it before, but I couldn't figure out how to value constant effect enchantments (because I didn't see an easy way in MWSE to figure out how powerful they were). But now I've got that figured out, so all that's left is to come up with the formula. What do you think of the formula below? It essentially adds the value of the enchantment to the value of the item, so a weak enchantment on a weak item adds the same value as a weak enchantment on a powerful item:
EnchantedValue =
ValueBase +
UnenchantedValue * ValueMultiplier +
MaxCharge * ValuePerMaxCharge +
ConstantEffectCost * ValuePerConstantEffectCost
For "Constant Effect" items, MaxCharge is zero.
For "On Hit", or "On Use" items, ConstantEffectCost is zero.
The "MaxCharge * ValuePerMaxCharge" line seems weird at first, but it's essentially a simplified version of:
ChargeCost * ValuePerChargeCost * EnchantmentUses
ChargeCost * ValuePerChargeCost * (MaxCharge / ChargeCost)
ChargeCost cancels itself out, so you're left with "ValuePerChargeCost * MaxCharge"
anyway, about your new formula: it looks good, separating the price of the raw item and the enchantment is probably the best thing to do.
but im not sure what youre actually referring to in the second half. maxcharge should be the number added by a soulgem while enchanting, basically the full "mana pool" of the item, correct? so far, so good. and am i dumb or is valuepermaxcharge really just a price multiplyer for the strength of the soul used, so to say? so your formula is missing biggest part of the enchantment, the points-value of the effect that represents its strength (tangent:
i cant really think of anything else to add to it right now.
Recalculate Value: Yes
Value Base: 0
Value Multiplier: 1.00
Value Per Max Charge: 10
Value Per Effect Cost: 10
Value Scale 1.00
This ends up resulting in some really nice and intuitive item prices, and I'm really happy with how it turned out overall. Thank you for all of your feedback!
In the second half I was trying to explain, that while super unintuitive, "MaxCharge * ValuePerMaxCharge" is taking into account both the ChargeCost of the item and the number of uses you can get out of it before it needs to recharge. This is assuming that 5 points of fire damage, used 10 times, is roughly as useful as 10 points of fire damage, used 5 times. The latter should probably be more valuable (but probably not twice as valuable), but I can't think of a simple formula that accounts for that. And interestingly, this 5x10 vs 10x5 scenario almost never comes up for pre-enchanted items.
For pre-enchanted items, MaxCharge is almost always 5x (for Cast When Used) or 10x (for Cast When Strikes) the ChargeCost, so MaxCharge and ChargeCost increase at roughly same rate. These 5x and 10x multipliers come from the "Auto Calculate" checkbox when making Enchantments in the construction set. ChargeCost (before it's reduced by the character's Enchant skill), is equal to the point value you see on the enchanting screen that represents the enchantment strength. I ended up calling this value "EffectCost" for constant effect enchantments, even though it's essentially the same thing as ChargeCost.
yeah, youre right, the use cost already accounts for the effect strength. i think i was just too tired and rambly at the time to get that lol
checked out the new version, its great! the only thing id want now is value per x sliders that go past 100 because for some reason i want things to be even more expensive, especially constant effects, because they seem to be way cheaper than active ones.
With "Value Per X" at 10 (with other settings at defaults):
6 -> 12 Cruel Sparkarrow
15 -> 220 Cruel Sparkblade
125 -> 340 Demon Tanto
6,500 -> 9,500 Glass Jinkblade
95,000 -> 161,400 Chrysamere
21 -> 403 Amulet of Almsivi Intervention
20,000 -> 6,410 Belt of Heartfire
500 -> 10,016 Boots of Blinding Speed
15,000 -> 25,500 Masque of Clavicus Vile
120,000 -> 194,500 Ebony Mail
With "Value Per X" at 100 (with other settings at defaults):
6 -> 102 Cruel Sparkarrow
15 -> 2,020 Cruel Sparkblade
125 -> 3,040 Demon Tanto
6,500 -> 27,500 Glass Jinkblade
95,000 -> 264,000 Chrysamere
21 -> 4,003 Amulet of Almsivi Intervention
20,000 -> 64,010 Belt of Heartfire
500 -> 100,016 Boots of Blinding Speed
15,000 -> 39,000 Masque of Clavicus Vile
120,000 -> 325,000 Ebony Mail
What values are you shooting for? I'm not sure I want to bump the max value of those sliders up any higher, because values of 100 already result in enchantments that are worth more than vanilla artifact items. Worst case scenario, you can always update the config file directly. So long as you don't touch the slider on the in-game UI, the setting will stay at the chosen value.
Edit: This isn't quite what I first thought, but a customisable rebalance is still a great idea.