*TAMRIELWATERLIFE.ESP MUST BE LOADED BEFORE TR_MAINLAND.ESM OR LANDMASS CONFLICTS WILL OCCUR.
As already stated, any mod manager worth its salt will require that ESPs be loaded after ESMs. ALWAYS. However, why not just convert the ESP to an ESM? That way, it could be loaded before TR without issue.
Hmmm.... Apparently you can convert plug-ins quite easily in Wrye Mash, which I actually use; I've just never tried that particular feature (never had cause).
I'm curious now... Tomorrow, if I have time, I'll download the updated version of this mod, set up a test profile and run some experiments....
I'll let you know how it goes. Bear in mind, I'm definitely NOT a mod author, or anything, but all the stuff I've actually learned about installing mods over the years, I acquired through messing around. So, worth a shot, I suppose.
I was able to create the ESM in Wrye Mash without a problem, the resulting mod installed smoothly into my game, and everything booted up without incident. I placed the ESM just before Tamriel Rebuilt in my load order. My test character is an Argonian, and I spotted several of your fish while diving around the waters of Seyda Neen. I started the character around the Boethia area of TR, and did not observe any Land Tearing. However, Morrowind is a huge game, and TR is even bigger... So, can you give me some sense of where I should be checking for land tears?
Also, I'm PMing you a link to the archive I made, so you'll be able to test it as well. Additionally, bear in mind that I repacked the files slightly to make it Wrye Mash-friendly... you may need to adjust them back to make it work for you.
Oh thanks! But wait, what OpenMW version are you using? I remember earlier versions ignored load order, but I'm on 0.49 and it has a stricter load order rule.
I'm actually still on MGE XE/Code Patch. I'll eventually try out OpenMW, but that time is not now. I wanted a more lightweight water life mod, and yours fit the bill, but given the issue of not being able to place ESP files before ESM files in my manager, it wasn't workable.
What I can tell you is that in MGE XE, when using Wrye Mash, you can adjust the load order of ESM files with other ESM files, but ESP files ALWAYS follow ESM files, and CANNOT be loaded before them. I'm fairly certain MO2 works the same way; I can't comment on Vortex though, since I've never really used it.
Another EDIT, you should probably clean the file I sent, which I forgot to do. I just did so in my own load order, and TES3 CMD had to do some work.
Update: I've had the chance to do some more testing. So far, I haven't observed any land mass conflicts and your sea creatures/fish are definitely there. However, what I have noticed is that the fish companion issue appears to be present. While it's sort of amusing to see fish following my Argonian test character across dry land... it's not exactly immersive...
EDIT: Apparently I'm blind.... I somehow failed to see the "companion" fix you had posted. So I downloaded that esp, and via the same process, converted it to an esm, grabbed the asset files from your original mod, and packed it all into an archive. I also remembered to clean it this time. So far, it all seems to be working very well.... the sea creatures are present, there are no land tears (that I've seen), and no fish are following me. Let me know if you'd like the new file.
Out of curiosity, why wouldn't it work for MGE XE? Does it have something to do with the way OpenMW deals with load order?
EDIT - done! And sure, may as well post it, just in case somebody comes along and wants the file after seeing this convo. Also, when you post the file, please add a warning that it hasn't been fully tested. We're talking about a massive game here, and there's only one of me.
It would work for MGEXE, I’m saying it wouldn’t work for OpenMW because OpenMW launcher has a stricter requirement about load order for esm’s and esp’s.
Ugh, sorry, I meant to say OpenMW, but you explained it anyway. Interesting on the strict loader with OpenMW. As I said in my original post, using a mod manager like Wrye Mash with vanilla/mge xe is strict in that it doesn't allow esms to load after esps. I'm just wondering how OpenMW specifically differs? I did, in fact, look it up, because I was curious, but it was difficult to find a definitive answer, and I came away with the sense that OpenMW actually allows you to order esps and esms in the launcher, or something. But that may have been old information???
You can order esp's and esm's in openmw's launcher and actually its more forgiving from what I understand than mgexe in regard to changing load order or adding/removing mods mid-playthrough. But specifically loading an esp before an esm, or in this case an esm that has dependencies from another esm you cannot do that. Your mod is up now btw, thanks again!
Ah, OK, I think I understand, thanks! Looking at the ESM I made in Wrye Mash, it's showing its masters as the official Bethesda files, plus Tamriel_Data_esm and TR_Mainland.esm, which, according to OpenMW's rules, necessitates loading it after, rather than before those last two. Interesting. I'd assume that if it's possible to remove those dependencies, the problem would be solved? This is apparently possible, at least in Wrye Mash, but I'm out of my depth with stuff like that. Maybe I'll ask in the MW Modding Discord; if the people there say it's safe and simple to remove those dependencies in Wrye Mash, I may give it a shot at some point.
Regardless, cheers for adding my ESM; if it helps out even just one person, I'll be happy. Also, thank you very much for making this mod; I've always loved Abot's Water Life, but this time (especially given that I have some 400 mods in my load order), I wanted something that was a little more lightweight!
I only manual install, but you are correct, although for some reason this mod will only work without landmass conflicts if loaded before the TR_Mainland.esm.
I play OpenMW 0.48 with Companions and Attent Me (follower HUD and teleportation). Now I have a lot of fishes as follower an these fishes following on land and teleport with me by siltstrider etc.
Load your file in cs, then ->Creature->Katuo(as example)->AI (on the bottom of the window), now you can see AI Pack Type, these are 2: Follow and Wander. Delete the Follow-package and save. (NPC have the same Packege-Options). I found 6 fishes with follow-packages: Kamuruti, Kazika, Katuo, Dolphin, Clownfish and Bluewhale. I hope, these were all fishes.
Sorry, this just causes OpenMW (I am using 0.48 release) to crash for me when it is loading all the assets at the start. I don't have the debugger installed so I don't have a diagnostic that is more helpful.
There is a conflict with any other Mod, I had it, too. I loaded the file then after Bloodmoon, Tamriel Data and OAAB Data, but before other Mods and it works now.
41 comments
As already stated, any mod manager worth its salt will require that ESPs be loaded after ESMs. ALWAYS.
However, why not just convert the ESP to an ESM? That way, it could be loaded before TR without issue.
*UPDATE: That idea didn't work.
Apparently you can convert plug-ins quite easily in Wrye Mash, which I actually use; I've just never tried that particular feature (never had cause).
I'm curious now... Tomorrow, if I have time, I'll download the updated version of this mod, set up a test profile and run some experiments....
I'll let you know how it goes. Bear in mind, I'm definitely NOT a mod author, or anything, but all the stuff I've actually learned about installing mods over the years, I acquired through messing around. So, worth a shot, I suppose.
I was able to create the ESM in Wrye Mash without a problem, the resulting mod installed smoothly into my game, and everything booted up without incident. I placed the ESM just before Tamriel Rebuilt in my load order. My test character is an Argonian, and I spotted several of your fish while diving around the waters of Seyda Neen. I started the character around the Boethia area of TR, and did not observe any Land Tearing. However, Morrowind is a huge game, and TR is even bigger... So, can you give me some sense of where I should be checking for land tears?
Also, I'm PMing you a link to the archive I made, so you'll be able to test it as well.
Additionally, bear in mind that I repacked the files slightly to make it Wrye Mash-friendly... you may need to adjust them back to make it work for you.
I wanted a more lightweight water life mod, and yours fit the bill, but given the issue of not being able to place ESP files before ESM files in my manager, it wasn't workable.
What I can tell you is that in MGE XE, when using Wrye Mash, you can adjust the load order of ESM files with other ESM files, but ESP files ALWAYS follow ESM files, and CANNOT be loaded before them. I'm fairly certain MO2 works the same way; I can't comment on Vortex though, since I've never really used it.
Another EDIT, you should probably clean the file I sent, which I forgot to do. I just did so in my own load order, and TES3 CMD had to do some work.
I've had the chance to do some more testing. So far, I haven't observed any land mass conflicts and your sea creatures/fish are definitely there. However, what I have noticed is that the fish companion issue appears to be present. While it's sort of amusing to see fish following my Argonian test character across dry land... it's not exactly immersive...
EDIT:
Apparently I'm blind.... I somehow failed to see the "companion" fix you had posted. So I downloaded that esp, and via the same process, converted it to an esm, grabbed the asset files from your original mod, and packed it all into an archive. I also remembered to clean it this time. So far, it all seems to be working very well.... the sea creatures are present, there are no land tears (that I've seen), and no fish are following me.
Out of curiosity, why wouldn't it work for MGE XE? Does it have something to do with the way OpenMW deals with load order?
EDIT - done! And sure, may as well post it, just in case somebody comes along and wants the file after seeing this convo. Also, when you post the file, please add a warning that it hasn't been fully tested. We're talking about a massive game here, and there's only one of me.
Regardless, cheers for adding my ESM; if it helps out even just one person, I'll be happy. Also, thank you very much for making this mod; I've always loved Abot's Water Life, but this time (especially given that I have some 400 mods in my load order), I wanted something that was a little more lightweight!
Cheers