Does it mean if I start a conversation with NPC (before they make a voiced-greeting), then their prices will be stuck in vanilla version forever?
Some NPCs randomly tend to not talk for a very long (if not at all)... Can't you change trigger to something else, like clicking a Barter for the first time maybe?
Making script more dynamic, where "modules" active each time a conversation is started, and deactivate when conversation is ended, would surely help the mod to be complatibale with older saves; preventing perma changes to save files as well. ...Assuming it's even possible to make such script ofc.
Okay, looks like changes are perma and talking to NPC too early will not trigger the script.
Could you perhaps make an optional version, where trigger is reverted to first dialogue window open? I also think prices introduced in Less Pushover Merchants (safer version) felt more balanced; altho I tested it only with low level character.
Hi, great mod! I have a small problem, in my game Arrille's spell selection is changed to 3 different (and useless) spells, namely self dispel, touch dispel and slave belt. TES3view tells me it is the wealthy npcs module that is effecting this change, I presume that is unintentional and should be fixed
Hi, thanks for the feedback! I'll take a look at it, although I suppose it might be due to the fact that I lowered Arille's lvl from 15 to 5. I did that because Mercantile and Speechcraft skill changes in this mod are lvl-dependent, so he would offer very harsh prices otherwise, definitely too much to handle at the beginning of the game. I also think it's quite logical, since he's just a regular trader in a small coastal village. For the same reason his spell selection could be limited as well
Hey there, I'm facing the same issue. Funnily enough, the three spells he ends up selling with he mod are spells that, according to the Wiki, are not normally obtainable in vanilla: Self Dispel, Slave Belt and Touch Dispel. Could this somehow be fixed? I see your reasoning for it being logical since he's just a regular trader but then again gameplay-wise he is also your first chance to buy spells as a mage. Postponing that to Balmora seems a bit late, maybe...
Does this edit the price calculation formulae or does it change the merchant's speechcraft and/or mercantile skills? I'm trying to figure out if and how I could pair this with Less Pushover Merchants
Looks like both mods do pretty much the same thing. Mine changes merchants/trainers skills, tweaks some general settings and makes several traders more rich, while the one you bring up seems to focus only on NPCs' skills. If you want to use them at the same time, I would go for Less Pushover Merchants as the basis and then add Servies/Creatures/Wealthy NPCs modules (whichever you find fitting) from For the Right Price as a supplement.
Hello, quite the perfect mod to adjust Morrowind economy, thank you. One question though : is it compatible with Great service and mods that add voiced greetings to shopkeepers ?
To be honest, I'm not sure. It depends on those mods implementation. If they change the first pack of vanilla voiced greetings (hello0 in the Construction Set, if I recall), then they won't be compatible. Otherwise, there should be no problems. To be extra safe you can load For the Right Price after the other ones.
Hello, I'm using your mod (last in loading list) with the hardcore mode, through OpenMW, and trading doesn't make much sense. At first, with a 30ish mercantile skill, many merchants wanted to buy items for almost nothing. But that's not my main problem... My main problem is that I'm now able to buy items way below their base price, and in some cases sell items above their base price. And wait for it, my mercantile skill is only is only 61!
A precise example: My current stats > Mercantile 61 (Personality 53). Ajira's stats > Mercantile 75
Buying diamond (base price 375), proposed price 281, minimum price with haggling ~240 Selling diamond, proposed price 281, maximum price with haggling ~330
Hi! What other mods (besides Hardcore Mode) are you using? With your current stats and For the Right Price installed you should be offered rather unfavourable prices by merchants. My bet is that there is another mod in your load list that changes something related to barter and/or personality mechanics.
Btw, what exactly do you mean by "base price"? In vanilla diamond's base value is 250. And what is you speechcraft lvl?
For the diamond, I suppose it's the price set in the hardcore mode, it increases the price of ingredients. Speechcraft was around 15.
My mod list is: - Tribunal.esm - Bloodmoon.esm - Tamriel_Data.esp - TD_Hotfix.esp - TR_Mainland.esm - TR_Factions.esm - FtRP_TR.esp - TR_Hotfix.esp - ML GH FMR Compilation.esp - Morrind Hardcore Mode.esp - For_the_Right_Price.esp (this using OpenMW)
I could reproduce with a new character, 30 mercantile, 5 speechcraft, 35 personality. Limewire platter, base value 650, selling/buying price without haggling to Arrille, at 100 disposition -> 487.
I'll try to disable everything except those 2 mods and the game extensions
Edit: I could reproduce with Tribunal, Bloodmoon, Morrowind Hardcore Mode and For_the_Right_Price only, same character and same price (487)
I also have a similar issue (but on a heavily modded setup) - the higher the mercantile, the more the price moves away from the base price, which can be an issue in the long term. For instance, at mercantile 15, disposition 85 and speechcraft 30, Arrille sold a 10 gold item for 9 gold (instead of selling it for a perhaps more reasonable 12-13)
As I see it, from 0-75 Mercantile, merchants should always sell items for considerably more than their base price. Only from 75 on should the items cost you less than their base price.
Of course, the more punishing option would be that merchants would offer the base price of an item at mercantile 100, since you are such a good haggler that they are not making any profit.
Nonetheless, this is a great mod, especially due to taking into account modded merchants, so I will keep using it - hopefully, a solution will be found.
Sorry for the late response. I finally managed to test the issues mentioned by both of you, SudoModding and Walkihr. It turns out that it all boils down to the disposition mechanics and has nothing to do with this mod, since it doesn't touch this part of the game.
I did some testing under the conditions described by SudoModding (fresh character, Speechcraft 5, Mercantile 30, Personality 35, selling the limeware platter worth 650 gp at base). Here are the outcomes (price offered):
At Arrille's disposition 100 Vanilla -> 487 gp For the Right Price -> 487 gp
At Arrille's disposition 50 Vanilla -> 351 gp For the Right Price -> 255 gp
As you can see, the only factor that differs, and affects the price, is the disposition of the merchant. All this mod does is increasing traders' Mercantile and Speechcraft skills, which still work as in vanilla (they're just higher). So this problem, unfortunately, will be present both in vanilla and with this mod installed - at very high (and presumably very low) disposition values.
However, the NPC's level also seems to play a role and here this mod helps a little bit. The following are the outcomes (price offered) under the exact same conditions as above, but tested against a higher level merchant NPC (Miun-Gei, the Argonian enchanter from Vivec Foreign Quarter, who's lvl 19):
At Miun-Gei's disposition 100 Vanilla -> 487 gp For the Right Price -> 393 gp
At Miun-Gei's disposition 50 Vanilla -> 409 gp For the Right Price -> 190 gp
To sum up. The problem you spotted is related to how OpenMW/vanilla handles disposition mechanics and it is not affected by this mod. However, this mechanics is also influenced by merchant's level. So when trading with higher lvl NPCs this mod will help to alleviate the problem slightly.
You don't have to wait, it's enough if the NPC starts to talk. The Merchants and Services modules should be compatible with Rebirth. Not sure about the Wealthy NPCs, but it's possible there are no conflicts at all.
Yeah, that may not be a problem when you play for the first time and are new to the mechanics, but the better you know the game, the more frustrating it becomes.
Are you sure this is compatible with openmw? Openmw has their own economy tweaks that they coded in. Your description says it changes the trader skills, which I know from my own experience than openmw has a problem with such changes. If you did the same thing I have with my mod, then haggling will be broken in openmw. If you are using scripts to do this, then it may not be an issue. Have you actually tested this with openmw?
I've been using it with OpenMW for a few months now and it works without problems. Changes to NPCs skills are implemented via a vanilla script triggered by voice greetings. The original script was written by Necrolesian for Economy Adjuster Adjustments, but it behaved strangely when the difference between NPC's and player's skills was too large (e.g. merchants would always pay 1 gp for any item, regardless of its price). I added some checks to get rid of this issue. That's all. I highlighted it as OpenMW-compatible, since other similar mods, like HardTrade, are MWSE-dependent.
Yes, the 1gp for any item is the issue im referring to. It is believed that if a merchant has a mercantile skill 75 or higher it results in 1 gold haggle. Im not sure if just a set number like that, or a certain difference between the players skill and npc's, but this is the first ive heard of that possibilty. Openmw coded this into their engine as their way of preventing the gold trading exploit. It unfortunately conflicts with mods and I dont think they have any intention of ever changing it. I dont suppose you could give me some more detail as to how you 'resolved' this. I dont use scripts in my mod. I manually altered every npc by hand instead. If everything checks out, I will simply refer users to this mod.
Through trial and error I found out that to prevent this from occuring the difference between NPC's and player's Mercantile and/or Speechcraft shouldn't be greater than 60, taking into account several disposition scenarios. So I included a condition in the script that ensures the difference between skills is always <=60. There might be some edge cases that are not covered by this solution, but I haven't seen them yet.
I have Morrowind - Hardcore Mode, you're mod and Real Disposition. You're mod is last, and still I have the 1gp problem, I assume it is not working with real disposition in this set up, because it lowers the npc disposition too much.
Edit: I tested just by making npc like me more, and it works...so yea, real disposition is the culprit so to speak.
Great mod! The lack of good economy adjustment mods was basically the only thing keeping me from making the jump to OpenMW completely. Between this and your alchemy mod appreciate you releasing stuff that helps make the game just a little less exploitable and keep the fun, struggling part of the character progression lasting a bit longer.
Happy to hear that! Economy and alchemy exploits were precisely the 2 things that were keeping me from switching entirely to OpenMW too. So I had to do something about it
Great idea, but will this be compatible with Quest Voice Greetings? For instance, in that mod, Arrille actually speaks out his sales pitch to you when you walk in. Or will it be enough if the NPC simply uses a voice line (the readme says that vanilla voice lines are needed, so I wanted to double check).
The only thing this mod affects is that it changes one voiced greeting of any merchant NPC when you meet her/him for the first time during your playthrough. That's all that is required to trigger the script and it only happens once, so any subsequent voiced dialogue remains untouched. Vanilla voice lines are required in the sense that I used original game files for those first-time greetings.
So it should be compatible with anything except for the dialogue lines spoken before you open the dialogue window with the given NPC for the first time.
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Some NPCs randomly tend to not talk for a very long (if not at all)...
Can't you change trigger to something else, like clicking a Barter for the first time maybe?
Making script more dynamic, where "modules" active each time a conversation is started, and deactivate when conversation is ended, would surely help the mod to be complatibale with older saves; preventing perma changes to save files as well.
...Assuming it's even possible to make such script ofc.
Could you perhaps make an optional version, where trigger is reverted to first dialogue window open?
I also think prices introduced in Less Pushover Merchants (safer version) felt more balanced; altho I tested it only with low level character.
Funnily enough, the three spells he ends up selling with he mod are spells that, according to the Wiki, are not normally obtainable in vanilla: Self Dispel, Slave Belt and Touch Dispel.
Could this somehow be fixed? I see your reasoning for it being logical since he's just a regular trader but then again gameplay-wise he is also your first chance to buy spells as a mage. Postponing that to Balmora seems a bit late, maybe...
I'm trying to figure out if and how I could pair this with Less Pushover Merchants
quite the perfect mod to adjust Morrowind economy, thank you. One question though : is it compatible with Great service and mods that add voiced greetings to shopkeepers ?
no problems. To be extra safe you can load For the Right Price after the other ones.
At first, with a 30ish mercantile skill, many merchants wanted to buy items for almost nothing. But that's not my main problem...
My main problem is that I'm now able to buy items way below their base price, and in some cases sell items above their base price.
And wait for it, my mercantile skill is only is only 61!
A precise example:
My current stats > Mercantile 61 (Personality 53).
Ajira's stats > Mercantile 75
Buying diamond (base price 375), proposed price 281, minimum price with haggling ~240
Selling diamond, proposed price 281, maximum price with haggling ~330
Any idea what could be the problem?
Btw, what exactly do you mean by "base price"? In vanilla diamond's base value is 250. And what is you speechcraft lvl?
Speechcraft was around 15.
My mod list is:
- Tribunal.esm
- Bloodmoon.esm
- Tamriel_Data.esp
- TD_Hotfix.esp
- TR_Mainland.esm
- TR_Factions.esm
- FtRP_TR.esp
- TR_Hotfix.esp
- ML GH FMR Compilation.esp
- Morrind Hardcore Mode.esp
- For_the_Right_Price.esp
(this using OpenMW)
I could reproduce with a new character, 30 mercantile, 5 speechcraft, 35 personality.
Limewire platter, base value 650, selling/buying price without haggling to Arrille, at 100 disposition -> 487.
I'll try to disable everything except those 2 mods and the game extensions
Edit: I could reproduce with Tribunal, Bloodmoon, Morrowind Hardcore Mode and For_the_Right_Price only, same character and same price (487)
As I see it, from 0-75 Mercantile, merchants should always sell items for considerably more than their base price. Only from 75 on should the items cost you less than their base price.
Of course, the more punishing option would be that merchants would offer the base price of an item at mercantile 100, since you are such a good haggler that they are not making any profit.
Nonetheless, this is a great mod, especially due to taking into account modded merchants, so I will keep using it - hopefully, a solution will be found.
I did some testing under the conditions described by SudoModding (fresh character, Speechcraft 5, Mercantile 30, Personality 35, selling the limeware platter worth 650 gp at base). Here are the outcomes (price offered):
At Arrille's disposition 100
Vanilla -> 487 gp
For the Right Price -> 487 gp
At Arrille's disposition 50
Vanilla -> 351 gp
For the Right Price -> 255 gp
As you can see, the only factor that differs, and affects the price, is the disposition of the merchant. All this mod does is increasing traders' Mercantile and Speechcraft skills, which still work as in vanilla (they're just higher). So this problem, unfortunately, will be present both in vanilla and with this mod installed - at very high (and presumably very low) disposition values.
However, the NPC's level also seems to play a role and here this mod helps a little bit. The following are the outcomes (price offered) under the exact same conditions as above, but tested against a higher level merchant NPC (Miun-Gei, the Argonian enchanter from Vivec Foreign Quarter, who's lvl 19):
At Miun-Gei's disposition 100
Vanilla -> 487 gp
For the Right Price -> 393 gp
At Miun-Gei's disposition 50
Vanilla -> 409 gp
For the Right Price -> 190 gp
To sum up. The problem you spotted is related to how OpenMW/vanilla handles disposition mechanics and it is not affected by this mod. However, this mechanics is also influenced by merchant's level. So when trading with higher lvl NPCs this mod will help to alleviate the problem slightly.
Becoming rich too easily is always a main issue I have with Morrowind. (or bethesda games in general)
Let me know if you spot any issues with the mod!
So I will stick with the "merchants" module and test it for a few hours. I'll let you know if I encounter any issues with it. :)
Edit: I tested just by making npc like me more, and it works...so yea, real disposition is the culprit so to speak.
So it should be compatible with anything except for the dialogue lines spoken before you open the dialogue window with the given NPC for the first time.