This fixed the issue I was having. Mage's Guild members now properly refuse services for me. This does make Teleportation restricted to Mage's Guild members of rank though.
All I can think is it may have been a conflict due to using BTB's Game Improvements Necro Edit Tweaked, which I think also has some version of Service Requirements baked-in. Load order fiddling likely fixed it.
Thanks for mentioning this, deepruntramp, as this was happening with me too. It appears to be an oversight and not related to other mods. To anyone who wants to fix, load this as active plugin in the CS, at the top go to Character->Dialogue, within the Dialogue window, go into the Persuasion tab, and into the Service Refusal topic. Look for lines related to Mages guild, specifically those that have the condition, Function: Choice != 5, and also Class: Healer != 1. Change the Function: Choice != 5 to Class: Guild Guide != 1, while leaving the Healer condition unchanged. This will fix the members offering all services if you're not a mages guild member, except for the healers and guild guides for travel. The original intent of the mod was to have the guild guides only offer travel services to non-members, but I couldn't figure out how to implement this, w/o denying the travel service. Hopes this helps someone else, and much thanks to the mod author!
I have made an edit to this file. I can forward it to you, Lucas9 to add as an option in the downloads.
Namely I made the Telvanni behave like the rest of the great houses where the bottom 3 ranks are allowed to trade and service non-members because characters like Skin-in-Trees's-Shade clearly trade with the sadrith mora locals (He tells you the local telvanni alchemist has bloat for sale). Telvanni no longer require you to outrank them for services, but you must meet their rank in order to get access to them beginning at rank Lawman. I also edited the Archmagister rank to allow services to 2 ranks below (Master) because I figured that the position would be more willing to service members who aren't actively attempting to challenge his rule (Though the slightly twisted Telvanni might think that you're only worthy if you're actively trying to surpass them like Dark Lords of The Sith. Still, I thought it made sense politically, you sit on the council and the archmagister will work with you.)
Also created a version where the Lower Ranks of Hlaalu will give you services after being named Hortator (Reasoning: Hlaalu are merchants and business people, gaining favor with the war leader who they know has support of the council could be perceived as in their self-interest). This Version carries the changes to Telvanni. Redoran were also adjusted, I found that they give services to 2 ranks below in the mod for download here and made it 1 rank below. Temple Services are unchanged, though the mod has all the services requiring 2 ranks below the service provider, and the Patriarchs giving services to 3 ranks below. The Thieves Guild had a -2 rank requirement, and Master thief a -3, I changed the Master Thief to be -2 (ringleaders and up)
From your comment below it sounds like you're not playing Morrowind anymore, so I'm not sure how useful this will be. In my latest game I encountered an issue. I don't think it counts as a bug report, but I'm pretty sure this was unintended, so I'd suggest it be changed.
In Vivec, in the High Fane exterior, Danso Indules sells potions and spells -- in your mod, her services are exclusively for members of the Tribunal Temple. However, one of the potions she sells is a potion of Rising Force, which is needed for the Shrine of Daring -- and until a pilgrim has completed all 'Seven Graces', they are not officially a member of the Tribunal Temple.
Also I'd point out that her role in the Bal Molagmar questline indicates that if anyone in the Tribunal Temple is offering their services to the general public, it's probably her. I'd suggest that she be excluded from this mod's changes, and allowed to sell to the general public, including pilgrims who seek to enter the Tribunal Temple.
EDIT: Actually, looks like it is a bug after all. Per the CS, you excluded 'Healer Services' class from all ServiceRefusal entries except for the ones that are based on the NPC's race. So a member of the Temple would not refuse healing service to anyone (faction member or not) but because Danso Indules was a Dark Elf member of a Temple, she did refuse? But the same would be true if she were Imperial/Nord/Redguard/any other race, so I'm not sure if the 'Temple' entry is actually doing anything. I'm still not really sure how/why these conditions work like that, but whatever the case, the intended outcome (healers don't refuse service) is not the case in-game.
How's this on OpenMW? It's made it pretty clear that anything requiring Script Extender or Graphics Extender won't ever work, but it's a lot more coy about the Code Patch. Do things needing Code Patch work or not? Does this one?
Does this mod make innkeepers who belong to the thieves guild or Redoran refuse their barter services? I don't see how this makes sense, they still offer you a bed, why won't they sell me bread or drinks. :(
I second this, publicans should not refuse services. Otherwise a great mod, and a wonderful addition to realism and gameplay balance, making factions really worthwhile (no more exploiting cheap scrolls from the Mages Guild at level 1 as a fighter, etc.)
I will not be playing Morrowind anymore, but I imagine it should be easy (provided there are enough slots in the CS to filter) for someone to add conditions to check if the NPC in question is of the Publican class, in order to allow them to provide full services (beds AND barter).
Why make it so easy to get access to the Temple and House Redoran services just through progressing through the Main Quest, though? That kinda gimps them in comparison to the other factions. I can sort of see what you were going for with the Temple (although that still doesn't make much sense to me), but why make House Redoran give the PC full access to their services just for becoming Hortator? Hlaalu and Telvanni don't do that, so why would Redoran?
Because this mod is based around the lore of the game as opposed to gameplay conveniences and obstacles. House Redoran puts much more value in what a Hortator is for them than what House Hlaalu and House Telvanni do. For Hlaalu, you can bribe your way to Hortator. That's how much they care about them. For Telvanni, so long as you are strong you are good to go.
But for Redoran, a Hortator is much more than being strong, but also a matter of honor. And if you prove yourself to be Hortator, then it stands to reason that everyone else sees you as a trusted friend. Same with the Temple: you are Nerevar reincarnated and have Vivec's blessing, what reason could a Temple member possibly have to deny service to you?
Eh, fair enough. I prefer to keep gameplay and immersion balanced to the best of my ability, but you're right that sometimes they can't be reconciled and you just need to pick one. Anyways, thanks for making this!
I'm getting denied service by House Telvanni street merchants who say they'd serve me if I was at least rank Hireling, but I am currently at rank Retainer.
Manicky says "I am a little busy right now. I might have time if you were of sufficient rank.", or "That is fairly presumptuous of you", or "do not even bother talking to me until you have risen to the rank of Hireling in House Telvanni"
The traders near the slave pen who are Retainer rank are all saying the same thing.
ok, I just messed with my rank using the console. If your rank is the same or LOWER than the NPC, then they will serve you. Looks like something got reversed in the mod.
Yes. There's no harm whatsoever in installing Patch for Purists, moreover, when designing a mod with PfP as a base I ensure that all the appropriate fixes (in this case, to dialogue) are carried over.
37 comments
There's an odd condition in the Mage's Guild Dialog, "Choice != 5," that I bet is causing it - I'll tinker with it tomorrow and see if it fixes it.
Namely I made the Telvanni behave like the rest of the great houses where the bottom 3 ranks are allowed to trade and service non-members because characters like Skin-in-Trees's-Shade clearly trade with the sadrith mora locals (He tells you the local telvanni alchemist has bloat for sale).
Telvanni no longer require you to outrank them for services, but you must meet their rank in order to get access to them beginning at rank Lawman. I also edited the Archmagister rank to allow services to 2 ranks below (Master) because I figured that the position would be more willing to service members who aren't actively attempting to challenge his rule (Though the slightly twisted Telvanni might think that you're only worthy if you're actively trying to surpass them like Dark Lords of The Sith. Still, I thought it made sense politically, you sit on the council and the archmagister will work with you.)
Also created a version where the Lower Ranks of Hlaalu will give you services after being named Hortator (Reasoning: Hlaalu are merchants and business people, gaining favor with the war leader who they know has support of the council could be perceived as in their self-interest). This Version carries the changes to Telvanni. Redoran were also adjusted, I found that they give services to 2 ranks below in the mod for download here and made it 1 rank below. Temple Services are unchanged, though the mod has all the services requiring 2 ranks below the service provider, and the Patriarchs giving services to 3 ranks below. The Thieves Guild had a -2 rank requirement, and Master thief a -3, I changed the Master Thief to be -2 (ringleaders and up)
Everything else is unchanged.
In Vivec, in the High Fane exterior, Danso Indules sells potions and spells -- in your mod, her services are exclusively for members of the Tribunal Temple. However, one of the potions she sells is a potion of Rising Force, which is needed for the Shrine of Daring -- and until a pilgrim has completed all 'Seven Graces', they are not officially a member of the Tribunal Temple.
Also I'd point out that her role in the Bal Molagmar questline indicates that if anyone in the Tribunal Temple is offering their services to the general public, it's probably her. I'd suggest that she be excluded from this mod's changes, and allowed to sell to the general public, including pilgrims who seek to enter the Tribunal Temple.
EDIT: Actually, looks like it is a bug after all. Per the CS, you excluded 'Healer Services' class from all ServiceRefusal entries except for the ones that are based on the NPC's race. So a member of the Temple would not refuse healing service to anyone (faction member or not) but because Danso Indules was a Dark Elf member of a Temple, she did refuse? But the same would be true if she were Imperial/Nord/Redguard/any other race, so I'm not sure if the 'Temple' entry is actually doing anything. I'm still not really sure how/why these conditions work like that, but whatever the case, the intended outcome (healers don't refuse service) is not the case in-game.
I created a new character and was able to trade with her just fine.
more coy about the Code Patch. Do things needing Code Patch work or not?
Does this one?
House Redoran puts much more value in what a Hortator is for them than what House Hlaalu and House Telvanni do. For Hlaalu, you can bribe your way to Hortator. That's how much they care about them. For Telvanni, so long as you are strong you are good to go.
But for Redoran, a Hortator is much more than being strong, but also a matter of honor. And if you prove yourself to be Hortator, then it stands to reason that everyone else sees you as a trusted friend. Same with the Temple: you are Nerevar reincarnated and have Vivec's blessing, what reason could a Temple member possibly have to deny service to you?
If you could tell me the exact dialogue message, that would help a lot.
The traders near the slave pen who are Retainer rank are all saying the same thing.
I'm currently rank Lawman.
EDIT: File uploaded.
Is this intentional?
There's no harm whatsoever in installing Patch for Purists, moreover, when designing a mod with PfP as a base I ensure that all the appropriate fixes (in this case, to dialogue) are carried over.