To this day, even with your other mods, my favorite Balmora Mod! It still needs some touches, like some doors that are wrongly alined or other small minor tweaks, but my one and only balmora mod, which I mix with Welcome Home, Balmora Rooftops and Balmora Docks with Caius Rooftop Garden.
All other mods I have seen recently, including yours do so many cell changes to vanilla that it immediately turns me off as I have a LOT of vanilla old mods that require the original vanilla cells else I would have to do manual edits on all of them.
But modularity with vanilla is something I have always loved, if you ever try to tackle Redux again, please do so, lots of people like me still enjoy it :)
Hey there! From my point of view, this mod is comically, astronomically bad! I even considered hiding/removing it, but then I decided to keep it as there's a value itself in preserving content, and as proved by your comment, it's possible someone still consider this a good addition to his game.
The chances of me coming back to these sort of mods are essentially non-existent, but I appreciate the kind words and the encouragement:)
Mind if I do take over it? I already have a merged custom version of it in the works on my current playthrough and might publish a Balmora Brujoloco Edit with this and other merged mods :)
I do understand this mod will be left 'as-it-is'. However, I think an expanded Balmora isn't entirely hopeless. Today's Windows lockscreen background photo showed the city of Göreme in Turkey. It is somewhat reminiscent of Hlaalu architecture and well... it does make good use of the rocks that resemble those of Morrowind. I guess it would require extra meshes of carved out rocks to blend in Hlaalu houses? I'm thinking of this https://i.pinimg.com/originals/83/a3/02/83a3020c2ebf78c30d59967856ec4a24.jpg and https://previews.123rf.com/images/volare2004/volare20040712/volare2004071200049/2287545-cave-city-in-cappadocia.jpg
Yeah I agree those type of pictures were definitely the inspiration for Epic Balmora and for my redux too. Take a look at Santorini too, that's what I was looking at myself when I made this. The only issue is that you need much more space between various building rows (which you don't have) and also at that point it doesn't look like Balmora anymore.
I'm always open to suggestion so feel free to throw any idea you might have, I'm happy to read them! But yeah, I was very happy with this overhaul at the time I made it, but I kept on modding and learning about the game and I realized just how "wrong" it felt:P
Really neat mod. I am endorsing it and will stay in my load order. Together with your balconies mod, plus the recommended rooftops apartments really gives Balmora a very nice makeover. I also using Brevur statue, Gildergreen and Balmora Docks and all together give the feeling of a proper House seat of power.
The only major thing I would suggest is encircling the temple with its own walls. It will give a larger air of monumentality, pairs well with the steps already there, connect it better with the rest of the city (it stands a bit isolated now) and we have other examples of walled velothi temples in Vvanderfell like AId-Ruhn and Gnisis. I think Kimunda's mod already did that.
Thanks:) And great suggestion of the temple part of town! I'll see if I can find a way to revisit that part a bit after I'm done with some other mods I want to publish:)
I am using Kilcunda's Lite Version together with Epic Balmora Redux and it seems they are compatible with each other! It indeed adds an encircling wall to the temple.
Love it. Really well made redux. Possible for you to make a patch for grass mods? This is how it looks with Aesthesia groundcover https://imgur.com/a/TS0E9H6
Unfortunately those areas are not touched by this mod. That's an issue with Aeshesia groundcover itself, that it swarms the cities with grass :/ Remiros (for his grass mod, Remiros groundcover) manually deleted grass in various cities to avoid that. I like the fuller look of Aeshesia groundcover but the fact that it places grass everywhere is a big bummer :/
Ok, this might border now on OCD my friend ... buuuut, I am almost 100% ready to switch to redux over old epic balmora ...
There is this very simple edit you could do.
See ... I use the good ole Moths for Morrowind: https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/44148
You removed the Lanterns on the temple, yet fireflies still detect the placeholders for the old Mod, which led me to realize, that the particular entrance to the temple in Balmora is actually quite dark (I use darker nights)
So you could please restore 1 of the 3 lanterns used in the original Epic balmora?
Temple looks quite dark at night now, with only the glow of Glow in the Dahrk showing the now properly aligned windows glowing ... but just ... you know? 8)
I sux at the Creation Kit, and I believe it would really enhance Balmora, being so bright at night with the temple included.
I'll do this as soon as possibile :) Weird thig is that the moths mod should simply fire when there's a lamp. Could you test if you get the same effect on a new game?
Done, the new update brings some new elements to the richer side of town (very sublte), better temple lighting and drastic measures were taken to make sure npcs won't fall into the river :P
Hi RandomPal! Glad to see you have taken the time to update this wonderful mod! I will download this new version and test on the weekend! 8)
I think the moth issue was a leftover lamp placeholder and me switching Balmora mods midway, so nothing to worry about in that area.
I have taken the leap and decided to make this mod my final balmora mod haha, the fps and visual clutter organization is pretty evident and cant seem to go back to the old version.
Hi Friend! I tried your Last version and still see a lot of difference with Classic Epic Balmora ... Do not know if this is intended or not! So will just report it here 8)
For example, there is a big arch missing alongside the dropped kwama eggs scene:
View from Afar Old Epic Balmora: https://i.imgur.com/iignaEG.jpg View in your Mod: https://i.imgur.com/QRGNSFn.jpg (notice the diff in the nearby tower on hill as well)
This the Kwama egg scene: https://i.imgur.com/OqSXrcP.jpg The same spot in your mod: https://i.imgur.com/VY7C9ii.jpg
The Arch in a close look old mod: https://i.imgur.com/6v45eDJ.jpg The Empty space in your mod: https://i.imgur.com/JdY0Lvf.jpg
Also noticed some changes and a couple missing banners near temple and a diff window type
Temple Area Old mod: https://i.imgur.com/gBaX9vA.jpg Temple Area in your mod: https://i.imgur.com/lYqLiIw.jpg
Also there is something in your mod I keep seeing with path grids ... NPCs are falling into the water using the Lamp Poles as a bridge into the water ... After a while the canal was full of people and it looked like a swim party haha! It is highly noticeable with Starfire NPC addons, since Balmora becomes populated with NPCs ... and they just dive into the canal , so probably a pathing grid gone wrong or overlapping the lamp posts. This never happened with old mod.
https://i.imgur.com/No9y1Uz.jpg
On the plus side I must commend you on your nice small tent addition to the reader added by MCA ... loved the small detail there!
Guy soaking wet in Old Mod: https://i.imgur.com/WMofWgG.jpg
Guy properly enjoying the weather in your mod: https://i.imgur.com/qikO3Rf.jpg
Again, just reporting as asked, current version is much better than original, but still a bit "bare" if you compare it directly with old mod, there is room for improvement I think 8)
Also check the lamp posts making npcs fall into canal! ... on a side note something that always bugged me in Balmora was that the canal had no easy way outs! Since you added some plants and an extra ramp at water level, why not add some way for people falling into the canal quickly go up ??? perhaps a small docking area that dives into the water?
Anyway love your new version and hope you keep improving it my friend! Cheers!
Thanks for your feedback! Really in-depth comparation! It will be of great value to improve the mod!
So, everything that was in the richer part of Balmora is intended, the arch has been moved since I had to make room for the new area and also because that's the richer part of Balmora and I didn't think wooden planks and kwama eggs laying around were fitting. I might add some decorations to fill the empty spaces but I don't think I want to recreate the same scenery. It was a compromise I had to make to make it so that the player can reach all those building. But there's room for improvement for sure.
The temple part is a partly intended and partly not. There are some missing windows that I will restore immediatly but the banners on the temple and the different window type were removed too keep compatibility with this mod (which I consider "essential"). https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/46184/
Also, I might be wrong but I think Epic Balmora only changed the windows on the exterior so it wasn't coherent with what you saw from the inside of the temple. Same thing the original mod did with Nalcarya's shop (the alchemy vendor) which is another change I removed.
And for the pathgrid, I wil definitely look into it! I think that's a problem with vanilla Morrowind which maybe was fixed in Epic Balmora. I didn't think a pathgrid was necessary so I removed it and I never noticed because I'm on OpenMW and the AI is way smarter in the way the npcs move around!
On to make version 1.4! Thanks for your great feedback!
Uploaded a quick fix for the windows and the pathgrid (pathgrids are quite hard to work with, hopefully I fixed the issue).
Heya RandomPal! Amazing and thanks a ton for your super quick reply! 8)
I will download your new version and try it out and of course, it is understandable that you decide to make the rich area "cleaner".
To keep the balance make the poor area "dirtier" hahaha.
Also big tip of the hat to you for making me aware of that temple mod! I love those immersion mods that make things more congruent with lore! So double bonus to you my friend!
Keep working and thanks again for making Balmora live again in this strange year!
Thanks to your feedback and that of the others who commented here I have now many many ideas for Balmora! I think I will leave this version as it is for people who want to use it alongside other mods and then keep working on something that will incorporate what I think are the best bits of the various Balmora overhauls:)
I will be eagerly awaiting all your add ons and extra stuff for the mod, it is quite perfect as it is now!
Perhaps my extra small vanilla lamp request could be added to it? 8)
You have made it possible now to actually enhance balmora, with so many houses now available to be filled with people, npcs, quests, player housing and much much more! I really like what you did my friend! I gained about 2 fps in balmora with your redux version! 8)
Can't say as I don't use Rebirth. It could be as the layout of the building is not touched at all as this just adds stuff on the hills surrounding Balmora. I'm not sure what Rebirth does to Balmora thogh.
Ok as requested some comparison shots Epic and Epic Redux
-In Epic Redux this corner near the Hammock is Bare: https://i.imgur.com/W1iq4MF.jpg
-in Epic Balmora has some more interesting and livelier clutter and plants: https://i.imgur.com/en3UICv.jpg
Nitpicking a bit the Hammock in Epic Balmora is more livelier with some cushions ... I know I know, but man, cushions and a hammock, they go so well together! : https://i.imgur.com/fRiPmOc.jpg
Moving a bit now to the other end of the city, You can see why old Epic Balmora was so good, as soon as you left Balmora walking you had a very nice view of a last building and an incredible view of the slope in the distance, which is much better at night (specially with Glow in the Dahrk!!!)
Now check the same exit and nearby slope in old Epic Balmora
Epic Balmora exit: https://i.imgur.com/q7xrwIr.jpg Epic Balmora Slope near exit: https://i.imgur.com/1T7X3mp.jpg
It is much more livelier and the Pennants make it more imposing as well, as it is not only the buildings but the adornments of it.
Not shown here is the fact that at night all those buildings glow and if you add windows glow using old Abots file or the newer MWSE Glow in the Dahrk balmora at night with those extra buildings really comes to life.
You can check a bit in the slope pic some of the buildings are the ones that have the small circular window set, that stuff looks really good at night.
But you get the idea! 8)
I know there comes a point where you can say "Hey use the old Epic and not my Redux" but yours actually has no landscape edits ( A HUGE PLUS) and seems to be built much better and not so haphazardly as the old one, so for me , greedy me I want the BEST of both worlds, the new and the old!
Since you already have most of the work done already, you can leisurely add some stuff here or there and I sincerely hope you do my virtual friend!
Love your mod so much, feels much cleaner and less chaotic while trying to keep the spirit of the old!
Oh gosh, all that stuff WAS SUPPOSED to still be there as you can see in one of my screenshots! Cleaning the mod after some edits must have taken it out for some reason!
Now everything should be in order, the area surrounding the temple was actually one of my favourite bit of the original mod! Added some cushions back on the hammock but I also added some cover for realism as I didn't think someone would leave cusions out in the open to soak water during a rainy day:)
Should be already 90% compatible as this mod doesn't touch any of the vanilla buildings. The only issue is the new riverside portion since Kilcunda's Balmora does something similar, but it's easy to make a version that's compatible with it. I'll make a compatible version as soon as possibile :)
If you are already open to do compatibility versions, I would like to suggest to have a look to CorprusWaifu's Gentrified Balmora (https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/47667) and Balmora Docks District (https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/47659) which give so much more personality to our beloved Hlaalu town.
I'll look into it. I realized though that it's not just a matter of deleting some stuff on my esp. I'd have to modify those mods and upload them here so I need to check with the creators of those mods as some people are really stingy with permissions
After playing around with the mod, I can say that even I seem to have gained some FPS over already overburdened Balmora haha.
That is a huge plus.
Now, I really really miss some small details from the original:
There is a Hammock you removed which added some ambience, I really miss the double stairs towards the Temple and well a few missing extra living details that could be added without the need to do land edits.
So I am fully endorsing this mod and hope for it to keep growing!
I really really like the added touch of the extra space in the canal and the bridge between the towers!
Very good in its current 1.1 state, but hoping as usual more upgrades in the future!
Restored the hammock and the triple staircase. Slighly improved the area leading to the two new building behind the Morag Tong guild. There's much that could be done to make the mod better but I also don't want it to be too heavy :/ One of the ideas I'd like to explore maybe is using the assets from Balmora Rooftops Apartments to make the new areas look even more vertical and layered :P
Hey my virtual friend! Just woke up and saw your note and updated mod! Yay!
Yes! Like I was telling you before, what you are missing now that have the basis of the mod in the buildings is to add clutter.
Original Epic Balmora has TONS of clutter!
Since you already restored some of the most classic noticeable extras, like the temple staircase and the hammock I will do a quick sweep to show you what you might still add to give the mod more life, as it is still a bit bare (to my tastes) and we also have to consider like you mentioned the balance of not overburdening Balmora so a compromise might have to be made ... (or not!, fill it with clutter! make it a super city like before! only less convoluted) haha.
43 comments
All other mods I have seen recently, including yours do so many cell changes to vanilla that it immediately turns me off as I have a LOT of vanilla old mods that require the original vanilla cells else I would have to do manual edits on all of them.
But modularity with vanilla is something I have always loved, if you ever try to tackle Redux again, please do so, lots of people like me still enjoy it :)
Cheers!
I even considered hiding/removing it, but then I decided to keep it as there's a value itself in preserving content, and as proved by your comment, it's possible someone still consider this a good addition to his game.
The chances of me coming back to these sort of mods are essentially non-existent, but I appreciate the kind words and the encouragement:)
Big hugs!
Today's Windows lockscreen background photo showed the city of Göreme in Turkey. It is somewhat reminiscent of Hlaalu architecture and well... it does make good
use of the rocks that resemble those of Morrowind. I guess it would require extra meshes of carved out rocks to blend in Hlaalu houses?
I'm thinking of this
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/83/a3/02/83a3020c2ebf78c30d59967856ec4a24.jpg
and
https://previews.123rf.com/images/volare2004/volare20040712/volare2004071200049/2287545-cave-city-in-cappadocia.jpg
Take a look at Santorini too, that's what I was looking at myself when I made this.
The only issue is that you need much more space between various building rows (which you don't have) and also at that point it doesn't look like Balmora anymore.
But yeah, I was very happy with this overhaul at the time I made it, but I kept on modding and learning about the game and I realized just how "wrong" it felt:P
The only major thing I would suggest is encircling the temple with its own walls. It will give a larger air of monumentality, pairs well with the steps already there, connect it better with the rest of the city (it stands a bit isolated now) and we have other examples of walled velothi temples in Vvanderfell like AId-Ruhn and Gnisis. I think Kimunda's mod already did that.
And great suggestion of the temple part of town! I'll see if I can find a way to revisit that part a bit after I'm done with some other mods I want to publish:)
https://imgur.com/a/TS0E9H6
Remiros (for his grass mod, Remiros groundcover) manually deleted grass in various cities to avoid that.
I like the fuller look of Aeshesia groundcover but the fact that it places grass everywhere is a big bummer :/
There is this very simple edit you could do.
See ... I use the good ole Moths for Morrowind: https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/44148
You removed the Lanterns on the temple, yet fireflies still detect the placeholders for the old Mod, which led me to realize, that the particular entrance to the temple in Balmora is actually quite dark (I use darker nights)
So you could please restore 1 of the 3 lanterns used in the original Epic balmora?
Temple looks quite dark at night now, with only the glow of Glow in the Dahrk showing the now properly aligned windows glowing ... but just ... you know? 8)
I sux at the Creation Kit, and I believe it would really enhance Balmora, being so bright at night with the temple included.
Weird thig is that the moths mod should simply fire when there's a lamp. Could you test if you get the same effect on a new game?
I think the moth issue was a leftover lamp placeholder and me switching Balmora mods midway, so nothing to worry about in that area.
I have taken the leap and decided to make this mod my final balmora mod haha, the fps and visual clutter organization is pretty evident and cant seem to go back to the old version.
Hope you have a wonderful weekend! 8)
For example, there is a big arch missing alongside the dropped kwama eggs scene:
View from Afar Old Epic Balmora: https://i.imgur.com/iignaEG.jpg
View in your Mod: https://i.imgur.com/QRGNSFn.jpg (notice the diff in the nearby tower on hill as well)
This the Kwama egg scene: https://i.imgur.com/OqSXrcP.jpg
The same spot in your mod: https://i.imgur.com/VY7C9ii.jpg
The Arch in a close look old mod: https://i.imgur.com/6v45eDJ.jpg
The Empty space in your mod: https://i.imgur.com/JdY0Lvf.jpg
Also noticed some changes and a couple missing banners near temple and a diff window type
Temple Area Old mod: https://i.imgur.com/gBaX9vA.jpg
Temple Area in your mod: https://i.imgur.com/lYqLiIw.jpg
Also there is something in your mod I keep seeing with path grids ... NPCs are falling into the water using the Lamp Poles as a bridge into the water ...
After a while the canal was full of people and it looked like a swim party haha! It is highly noticeable with Starfire NPC addons, since Balmora becomes populated with NPCs ... and they just dive into the canal , so probably a pathing grid gone wrong or overlapping the lamp posts. This never happened with old mod.
https://i.imgur.com/No9y1Uz.jpg
On the plus side I must commend you on your nice small tent addition to the reader added by MCA ... loved the small detail there!
Guy soaking wet in Old Mod: https://i.imgur.com/WMofWgG.jpg
Guy properly enjoying the weather in your mod: https://i.imgur.com/qikO3Rf.jpg
Again, just reporting as asked, current version is much better than original, but still a bit "bare" if you compare it directly with old mod, there is room for improvement I think 8)
Also check the lamp posts making npcs fall into canal! ... on a side note something that always bugged me in Balmora was that the canal had no easy way outs! Since you added some plants and an extra ramp at water level, why not add some way for people falling into the canal quickly go up ??? perhaps a small docking area that dives into the water?
Anyway love your new version and hope you keep improving it my friend! Cheers!
So, everything that was in the richer part of Balmora is intended, the arch has been moved since I had to make room for the new area and also because that's the richer part of Balmora and I didn't think wooden planks and kwama eggs laying around were fitting. I might add some decorations to fill the empty spaces but I don't think I want to recreate the same scenery.
It was a compromise I had to make to make it so that the player can reach all those building. But there's room for improvement for sure.
The temple part is a partly intended and partly not. There are some missing windows that I will restore immediatly but the banners on the temple and the different window type were removed too keep compatibility with this mod (which I consider "essential").
https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/46184/
Also, I might be wrong but I think Epic Balmora only changed the windows on the exterior so it wasn't coherent with what you saw from the inside of the temple.
Same thing the original mod did with Nalcarya's shop (the alchemy vendor) which is another change I removed.
And for the pathgrid, I wil definitely look into it! I think that's a problem with vanilla Morrowind which maybe was fixed in Epic Balmora.
I didn't think a pathgrid was necessary so I removed it and I never noticed because I'm on OpenMW and the AI is way smarter in the way the npcs move around!
On to make version 1.4! Thanks for your great feedback!
Uploaded a quick fix for the windows and the pathgrid (pathgrids are quite hard to work with, hopefully I fixed the issue).
I will download your new version and try it out and of course, it is understandable that you decide to make the rich area "cleaner".
To keep the balance make the poor area "dirtier" hahaha.
Also big tip of the hat to you for making me aware of that temple mod! I love those immersion mods that make things more congruent with lore! So double bonus to you my friend!
Keep working and thanks again for making Balmora live again in this strange year!
Cheers!
I think I will leave this version as it is for people who want to use it alongside other mods and then keep working on something that will incorporate what I think are the best bits of the various Balmora overhauls:)
Perhaps my extra small vanilla lamp request could be added to it? 8)
You have made it possible now to actually enhance balmora, with so many houses now available to be filled with people, npcs, quests, player housing and much much more! I really like what you did my friend! I gained about 2 fps in balmora with your redux version! 8)
-In Epic Redux this corner near the Hammock is Bare: https://i.imgur.com/W1iq4MF.jpg
-in Epic Balmora has some more interesting and livelier clutter and plants: https://i.imgur.com/en3UICv.jpg
Nitpicking a bit the Hammock in Epic Balmora is more livelier with some cushions ... I know I know, but man, cushions and a hammock, they go so well together! : https://i.imgur.com/fRiPmOc.jpg
Moving a bit now to the other end of the city, You can see why old Epic Balmora was so good, as soon as you left Balmora walking you had a very nice view of a last building and an incredible view of the slope in the distance, which is much better at night (specially with Glow in the Dahrk!!!)
Epic Redux exit https://i.imgur.com/QK1LDpR.jpg
Epic Redux Slope https://i.imgur.com/x64jxbO.jpg
Now check the same exit and nearby slope in old Epic Balmora
Epic Balmora exit: https://i.imgur.com/q7xrwIr.jpg
Epic Balmora Slope near exit: https://i.imgur.com/1T7X3mp.jpg
It is much more livelier and the Pennants make it more imposing as well, as it is not only the buildings but the adornments of it.
Not shown here is the fact that at night all those buildings glow and if you add windows glow using old Abots file or the newer MWSE Glow in the Dahrk balmora at night with those extra buildings really comes to life.
You can check a bit in the slope pic some of the buildings are the ones that have the small circular window set, that stuff looks really good at night.
But you get the idea! 8)
I know there comes a point where you can say "Hey use the old Epic and not my Redux" but yours actually has no landscape edits ( A HUGE PLUS) and
seems to be built much better and not so haphazardly as the old one, so for me , greedy me I want the BEST of both worlds, the new and the old!
Since you already have most of the work done already, you can leisurely add some stuff here or there and I sincerely hope you do my virtual friend!
Love your mod so much, feels much cleaner and less chaotic while trying to keep the spirit of the old!
Please keep working on it man! It rocks! 8)
Now everything should be in order, the area surrounding the temple was actually one of my favourite bit of the original mod!
Added some cushions back on the hammock but I also added some cover for realism as I didn't think someone would leave cusions out in the open to soak water during a rainy day:)
I'll make a compatible version as soon as possibile :)
That is a huge plus.
Now, I really really miss some small details from the original:
There is a Hammock you removed which added some ambience, I really miss the double stairs towards the Temple and well a few missing extra living details that could be added without the need to do land edits.
So I am fully endorsing this mod and hope for it to keep growing!
I really really like the added touch of the extra space in the canal and the bridge between the towers!
Very good in its current 1.1 state, but hoping as usual more upgrades in the future!
Awesome work! 8)
There's much that could be done to make the mod better but I also don't want it to be too heavy :/
One of the ideas I'd like to explore maybe is using the assets from Balmora Rooftops Apartments to make the new areas look even more vertical and layered :P
Yes! Like I was telling you before, what you are missing now that have the basis of the mod in the buildings is to add clutter.
Original Epic Balmora has TONS of clutter!
Since you already restored some of the most classic noticeable extras, like the temple staircase and the hammock I will do a quick sweep to show you what you might still add to give the mod more life, as it is still a bit bare (to my tastes) and we also have to consider like you mentioned the balance of not overburdening Balmora so a compromise might have to be made ... (or not!, fill it with clutter! make it a super city like before! only less convoluted) haha.
Will take some screenshots as well.
Need to check your new version first