hey, this is a great mod, i've been using it for a long time. i thought it would be even better if low level enemies and items would appear more often, so i asked chat gpt and this is what i got.
local config = require("OperatorJack.OperatorJacksDeleveler.config")
-- Debug level: 0 - disabled, 1 - only list name, 2 - contents of each list local debug = 0
-- Function to duplicate entries in leveled lists based on level ranges local function duplicateEntries(leveledList) local newList = {} for _, node in ipairs(leveledList.list) do local count = 0 if node.levelRequired >= 1 and node.levelRequired <= 5 then count = 5 elseif node.levelRequired >= 6 and node.levelRequired <= 10 then count = 4 elseif node.levelRequired >= 11 and node.levelRequired <= 15 then count = 3 elseif node.levelRequired >= 16 and node.levelRequired <= 19 then count = 2 elseif node.levelRequired >= 20 then count = 1 end for i = 1, count do table.insert(newList, node) end end return newList end
local function initialized() local lists = {} if config.levcEnabled == true then table.insert(lists, tes3.objectType.leveledCreature) end if config.leviEnabled == true then table.insert(lists, tes3.objectType.leveledItem) end for _, objectType in ipairs(lists) do for leveledList in tes3.iterateObjects(objectType) do if debug >= 1 then mwse.log("Processing List: %s", leveledList.id) end local newList = duplicateEntries(leveledList) leveledList.list = newList for _, node in ipairs(newList) do node.levelRequired = 1 if debug == 2 then mwse.log("--- Updated Node: Obj: %s, Level: %s", node.object.id, node.levelRequired) end end end end mwse.log("[OperatorJack's Deleveler: INFO] Leveled lists adjusted and deleveled") end
I've been using this mod for a while now and find it amazing, well done to the creator. I'm just curious if this mod may cause some creatures not to spawn that would otherwise have at low levels when using together with other mods. I am unsure of the inner workings of creature level lists and if anyone could provide clarity on this topic, I would be very grateful to them.
curious if this mod may cause some creatures not to spawn
Recently I've been tinkering in spawn mechanics myself and can confirm that shouldn't be a case. From my experience, reducing requirements of leveled lists, rather than replacing low lvl spawns, unlocksnew high lvl spawns, so you'll still see plenty of low lvl mobs. I.e. instead of finding 2 ghosts in tombs on level 1, with deleveler you'll get 5 ghosts (because 3 extra spawns have been "unlocked"), or 2 ghosts + 3 bonewalkers (or similar). Not only you'll see tougher monsters, you will also see more monsters in general. Modded or not, it doesn't seem to remove low lvl spawns.
What I'm not sure, is how common for spawns is to use chanceForNothing property, which determines the chance of spawn to happen, because I didn't notice any randomness in my game in this regard. I.e. if I have 5 spawns in a certain spot it always spawns 5 monsters there. Does anyone know how often this chanceForNothing option is used?
You can't set Chance None on the individual ninja monkeys to the best of my knowledge (it's above the line) so you can just check the Leveled Creatures. Most regions have a chance of 0 on all spawns, so each spot spawns. Grazelands has 40% (but denser placement). I tried setting all Bittercoast Coast ones to 90 and (still using this deleveler) the creature density seemed much lower, although it felt more like half than 10% subjectively.
EDIT: Oh, a ton of the spawnpoints on the Bitter Coast are actually ex_shore_... that makes sense
There is no point in using both: use one or the other. Both mods delevel the loot entirely, but Morrowind Releveled has a different approach in handling creature leveled lists. This mod completely delevels creature lists, MRlv doesn't.
I never used abot's deleveler, but trying this out I can definitely say that I like the idea! Especially since I spend so much time mod-testing, it's nice to finally see Bonelord's in tombs again, lol! And I never liked the idea of loot being leveled in Morrowind (or later games either obviously). This mod might pair well with one that adds level requirements to equip certain equipment or something from a balance perspective (I think something like that already exists as a MWSE mod).
This is so much more convenient that abot's script, especially for someone who changes their load order a lot.
I'm of two minds about the concept though. On the one hand it's hardcore difficulty, and I like that. Plus it's more realistic, as strong monsters wouldn't wait to appear in real life until you get stronger. On the other hand, the game no longer levels with you, so it starts out terrifying then gets easier and easier as you get stronger. More realistic, but from a game balance perspective it seems pretty unbalanced. Hard to decide whether or not to use it.
It would definitely be unbalanced for a linear-style game. For an open-world game with a leveling system, having everything grow stronger with you really defeats the purpose of leveling at all (especially in Oblivion). Ideally, the game's strongest enemies should be barely survivable at the highest levels, with distinct hard-zones you'd know to avoid until later (Dwemer ruins, Daedric shrines, Red Mountain Region), but that's what balance mods are for.
Something like OOO for Oblivion where monster placement is designed with balance in mind and the farther from civilized areas you go the harder things get. As it is some areas (BC, AI) are still easier than others (Grazelands, Molag Amur), but to a significant extent it's still all the same pot of random, so you can go into a nondescript tomb just outside of town and run into skeleton champions.
A small step in that direction is to use mods that make healthy wildlife less aggressive. That makes "beginner" areas less dangerous, whereas the more remote areas typically have more enemies that are not affected by this.
26 comments
local config = require("OperatorJack.OperatorJacksDeleveler.config")
event.register("modConfigReady", function()
dofile("Data Files\\MWSE\\mods\\OperatorJack\\OperatorJacksDeleveler\\mcm.lua")
end)
-- Debug level: 0 - disabled, 1 - only list name, 2 - contents of each list
local debug = 0
-- Function to duplicate entries in leveled lists based on level ranges
local function duplicateEntries(leveledList)
local newList = {}
for _, node in ipairs(leveledList.list) do
local count = 0
if node.levelRequired >= 1 and node.levelRequired <= 5 then
count = 5
elseif node.levelRequired >= 6 and node.levelRequired <= 10 then
count = 4
elseif node.levelRequired >= 11 and node.levelRequired <= 15 then
count = 3
elseif node.levelRequired >= 16 and node.levelRequired <= 19 then
count = 2
elseif node.levelRequired >= 20 then
count = 1
end
for i = 1, count do
table.insert(newList, node)
end
end
return newList
end
local function initialized()
local lists = {}
if config.levcEnabled == true then
table.insert(lists, tes3.objectType.leveledCreature)
end
if config.leviEnabled == true then
table.insert(lists, tes3.objectType.leveledItem)
end
for _, objectType in ipairs(lists) do
for leveledList in tes3.iterateObjects(objectType) do
if debug >= 1 then
mwse.log("Processing List: %s", leveledList.id)
end
local newList = duplicateEntries(leveledList)
leveledList.list = newList
for _, node in ipairs(newList) do
node.levelRequired = 1
if debug == 2 then
mwse.log("--- Updated Node: Obj: %s, Level: %s", node.object.id, node.levelRequired)
end
end
end
end
mwse.log("[OperatorJack's Deleveler: INFO] Leveled lists adjusted and deleveled")
end
event.register("initialized", initialized, {priority = -10000})
unfortunately it doesn't work. do you have any ideas?
What I'm not sure, is how common for spawns is to use chanceForNothing property, which determines the chance of spawn to happen, because I didn't notice any randomness in my game in this regard. I.e. if I have 5 spawns in a certain spot it always spawns 5 monsters there. Does anyone know how often this chanceForNothing option is used?
EDIT: Oh, a ton of the spawnpoints on the Bitter Coast are actually ex_shore_... that makes sense
I would like to ask for a feature: any possibility of lucky loot integration? https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/49839
I'm of two minds about the concept though. On the one hand it's hardcore difficulty, and I like that. Plus it's more realistic, as strong monsters wouldn't wait to appear in real life until you get stronger. On the other hand, the game no longer levels with you, so it starts out terrifying then gets easier and easier as you get stronger. More realistic, but from a game balance perspective it seems pretty unbalanced. Hard to decide whether or not to use it.
It doesn't exist