If one reaches a high enough rank in Telvanni, will Telvanni guards stop caring if you summon in Telvanni towns? (cause if not, that should be added IMO)
Out of curiosity since I lack the knowledge of Elder Scrolls Lore, but why exactly is it illegal to summon a daedra or undead for that matter if for one that in Morrowind it is legal to worship daedra ?
I'm not a lore buff either, but here is a comment I found on Reddit that has a nice explanation. No idea how lore-accurate it is. "In lore, at least, conjuration is definitely frowned upon, though perhaps to a lesser extent than necromancy.
A lot of it is presumably a moral issue, as necromancy manipulates a soul and prevents it from passing on into Oblivion, the Dreamsleeve, etc. For higher creatures at least, you are directly preventing them from entering future lives via the Sleeve, and all for selfish reasons.
Conjuration manipulates an otherworldly creature that most could care little about the welfare of. To the contrary, people tend to reasonably fear Daedra and want to do them harm out of fear for their lives. Never implemented in game, the loading screens in Morrowind for Xbox mention that summoning in towns is illegal. We also see the various conjurors (specifically named as such, not just a thief that knows how to summon a skamp) hiding in caverns throughout Cyrodiil, and of corse we have one quest where a Mage's Guild member quietly enlists your help in freeing another member, studying conjuration and a Daedric artifact in secret, at her home, rather than in the safety of the Guild, utilizing their resources and combined knowledge.
In the end, I think this is a highly controversial topic in Tamriel, with people concerned about danger in interacting with Daedra at all and a likely prejudice that anyone who associates with such magics isn't likely to be trusted ("Why would you need to associate with such creatures if you weren't up to no good?")."
And yet curiously the master trainer of conjuration is a high ranking Temple member. I'm no lore buff either, but there at least seems to be an implicit notion in Morrowind of "good" and "bad" conjuration. "Good" conjuration probably being the kind used in Dunmer ancestral worship; "bad" being conjuration used for everything else. Sorta like necromancy.
It is illegal to worship daedra in morrowind. Velothi people worshipped daedra, they are now House Dunmer worshipping exclusively to their Living Gods. Daedra cursed the Velothi people to have this skin tone to begin with. Only ones still worshipping them openly are the ashlanders, who most housed dunmer are openly hostile towards.
Necromancy or disturbing the undead is big taboo in morrowind. Only their ancestral "necromancy" is allowed and deemed respectful. Their ancestors' remains power the ghostfence, and they are frequently contacted for counsel.
Will this mod cause guards to attack NPCs who use summoning spells? If a mages guild member summons a daedroth in self defense after an assault, will they just get murdered by the guards?
Only if a guard is nearby. If a guard is nearby, yes. Illegal is illegal, after all. You can white list them if you feel it appropriate, or remove the summoning spells from their inventories. Unfortunately there isn't much to do until AI changes become possible.
Just enquiring about whether there has been any progress on this particular aspect. I'd love to install this mod, as I think it would only add to Morrowind's rich and particular cultural flavour, however I don't want guards killing NPCs because a bat flew into town, feel me? Even if there is no way to fix this the way it was originally suggested, is there any way to get around this problem in your opinion, @OperatorJack?
Since it seems like guards only react to the spellcasting itself, does that mean they won't care if you have previously-summoned creatures follow you into town? Not sure if it's possible to get NPCs to react to non-hostile creatures in that way, but having guards arrest you on the spot while non-guard NPCs flee the scene in fear would be pretty immersive.
I also have a suggestion regarding lawbreaking NPC summons: instead of having guards attack them, simply prevent blacklisted NPCs from casting those spells at all, if possible. More realistic that way, since it isn't possible for NPCs to be arrested, and they aren't going to risk a death sentence when there are other spells they could use.
I would also suggest default-whitelisting Ordinators and other Temple members, but only when it comes to undead summons (again, if possible), since they'd presumably be summoning their Dunmer ancestors.
Hi, You're correct in that you will not get reported for previously-summoned creatures. It is possible to make this happen, but I would have to implement what is essentially a constantly running script and I did not want to introduce that overhead, as the mod is currently very lightweight. It may be something I revisit with an MCM option in the future.
Unfortunately, NPCs cannot reliably be prevented from casting any given spell. This is due to the engine's AI and is a current game limitation. May be an option in the future though.
Lastly, I considered doing something like you suggested with the Ordinators, but I ultimately decided that it would be feature creep and not worth the effort to implement for the gained benefit, as I would have to add MCM configuration menus for that, and having a whitelist per NPC is not currently easily done like the existing MCM menus are.
Error in event callback: Data Files\MWSE\mods\OperatorJack\IllegalSummoning\main.lua:73: attempt to index field 'effectWhitelist' (a nil value) stack traceback: .\Data Files\MWSE\core\event.lua:137: in function '__index' Data Files\MWSE\mods\OperatorJack\IllegalSummoning\main.lua:73: in function <Data Files\MWSE\mods\OperatorJack\IllegalSummoning\main.lua:60> [C]: in function 'xpcall' .\Data Files\MWSE\core\event.lua:150: in function 'trigger' .\Data Files\MWSE\core\event.lua:170: in function <.\Data Files\MWSE\core\event.lua:140>
It looks like there was an issue loading the configuration file. Try going to Data Files/MWSE/config and deleting the illegal summoning json file there, then reload your game.
How exactly is this script(s) implemented in-game? Is it attached to spells belonging to the "conjuration" school, to the "guard" class, or some other way? I'm asking because I read under your permissions subheading "This mod may be utilized for any purpose for Morrowind, as long as you credit me as the original author. It may not be used for other games." and I'm very interested in using it in a mod I'm working on. For example, would it be possible to edit the script(s) in such a way that it would only be applied to the Ordinators?
Hi, this mod uses MWSE and is not implemented "in-game" at all. The MWSE script registers an event listener for the "spellCasted" event, meaning that every time a spell is cast, my code is triggered. Then, a few things are done. First, it checks if the area is illegal to summon in by seeing if the caster's cell is registered as illegal to rest in, then iterates through the effects in the spell being cast to see if they're summoning effects. If so, the crime is reported. For good measure, some extra functionality checks for nearby guards and starts combat with the spell caster if they're an NPC (since there is no NPC crime system). If you contact me on the Morrowind Modding Community Discord, we can talk through what you're trying to do.
It works like an overcooked onion, and that is because the slider is not working in a smooth way, it is difficult to get any decent bounty or fine for summoning, I want to change the default but i find this almost impossible to do
The slider is a built in component of MWSE. Not sure why you’re having difficulty with it. You can manually move the slider notch, click to the left or right of it, or use the arrows the change the values. If you continue having problems, please contact me on Discord.
I don't have discord, nor do I want to log in on that to be honest. I can't pinpoint exact values, get 201 instead of 200, I don't see the arrows to be too efficient but will try now
The slider is way to sensitive, the arrows move up and down in steps of 100. if I want to get a bounty of 193, may Almsivi bless your wayward soul, outlander.
The slider does not do values of 1. It increments in values of 100 on purpose. This is because it has minimum and maximum values it can range between and setting the step amount to 1 would be too tedious for most people. Sorry for the inconvenience, but this is by design.
42 comments
"In lore, at least, conjuration is definitely frowned upon, though perhaps to a lesser extent than necromancy.
A lot of it is presumably a moral issue, as necromancy manipulates a soul and prevents it from passing on into Oblivion, the Dreamsleeve, etc. For higher creatures at least, you are directly preventing them from entering future lives via the Sleeve, and all for selfish reasons.
Conjuration manipulates an otherworldly creature that most could care little about the welfare of. To the contrary, people tend to reasonably fear Daedra and want to do them harm out of fear for their lives. Never implemented in game, the loading screens in Morrowind for Xbox mention that summoning in towns is illegal. We also see the various conjurors (specifically named as such, not just a thief that knows how to summon a skamp) hiding in caverns throughout Cyrodiil, and of corse we have one quest where a Mage's Guild member quietly enlists your help in freeing another member, studying conjuration and a Daedric artifact in secret, at her home, rather than in the safety of the Guild, utilizing their resources and combined knowledge.
In the end, I think this is a highly controversial topic in Tamriel, with people concerned about danger in interacting with Daedra at all and a likely prejudice that anyone who associates with such magics isn't likely to be trusted ("Why would you need to associate with such creatures if you weren't up to no good?")."
https://www.reddit.com/r/ElderScrolls/comments/4b4wrm/why_is_necromancy_banned_or_frowned_upon_but/d1eaivh?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x
Perhaps someone with more knowledge of the lore can step in.
Necromancy or disturbing the undead is big taboo in morrowind. Only their ancestral "necromancy" is allowed and deemed respectful. Their ancestors' remains power the ghostfence, and they are frequently contacted for counsel.
I also have a suggestion regarding lawbreaking NPC summons: instead of having guards attack them, simply prevent blacklisted NPCs from casting those spells at all, if possible. More realistic that way, since it isn't possible for NPCs to be arrested, and they aren't going to risk a death sentence when there are other spells they could use.
I would also suggest default-whitelisting Ordinators and other Temple members, but only when it comes to undead summons (again, if possible), since they'd presumably be summoning their Dunmer ancestors.
You're correct in that you will not get reported for previously-summoned creatures. It is possible to make this happen, but I would have to implement what is essentially a constantly running script and I did not want to introduce that overhead, as the mod is currently very lightweight. It may be something I revisit with an MCM option in the future.
Unfortunately, NPCs cannot reliably be prevented from casting any given spell. This is due to the engine's AI and is a current game limitation. May be an option in the future though.
Lastly, I considered doing something like you suggested with the Ordinators, but I ultimately decided that it would be feature creep and not worth the effort to implement for the gained benefit, as I would have to add MCM configuration menus for that, and having a whitelist per NPC is not currently easily done like the existing MCM menus are.
Old one (v1) does though.
Latest MWSE.
stack traceback:
.\Data Files\MWSE\core\event.lua:137: in function '__index'
Data Files\MWSE\mods\OperatorJack\IllegalSummoning\main.lua:73: in function <Data Files\MWSE\mods\OperatorJack\IllegalSummoning\main.lua:60>
[C]: in function 'xpcall'
.\Data Files\MWSE\core\event.lua:150: in function 'trigger'
.\Data Files\MWSE\core\event.lua:170: in function <.\Data Files\MWSE\core\event.lua:140>
Thanks for your contribution!